Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, August 22, 2012
Chow In-N-Out Burger Does a Thing That Is Right
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 1:32 PM
Not right enough for some people, sure, but still right. I wish we had In-N-Out here in Seattle.
1
How is it "right" to shift purchases to a different slaughterhouse that does the same practices but just hasn't been filmed yet?
2
In-N-Out Burger is overrated.
They're good, but nothing special; nothing better than the scores of other burger joints out there.
They're good, but nothing special; nothing better than the scores of other burger joints out there.
3
A PR move is hardly "right". They're still buying meat from filthy torture factories.
I'd love to understand what you consider "wrong" - apparently factory farms, concentrated animal feeding operations, battery cages, foie gras, and veal don't qualify. Can you name anything you wouldn't eat on moral grounds?
I'd love to understand what you consider "wrong" - apparently factory farms, concentrated animal feeding operations, battery cages, foie gras, and veal don't qualify. Can you name anything you wouldn't eat on moral grounds?
5
I just finished eating a burger I made myself. I'll guarantee it was better than anything that comes out of any burger joint — and it cost less too.
6
Came here to say what #2 said...the burgers there are no better than the premium burgers at Wendy's or most any other chain.
7
I'll trade you one of our In-N-Outs for one of your Dicks. I'd trade 'em all for an Eagan's Big Tom from Olympia. San Francisco sort of sucks when it comes to decent burgers.
8
In other news about homophobic businesspeople: First link below the Jesusburger story was about Intellicheck founder Frank Mandelbaum's plan to disinherit his grandson unless the boy's gay, partnered father marries the surrogate who bore him.
9
1) In-n-Out is absolutely nothing special, especially in Southern California where there's a million hamburger stands, both chains and individuals.
2) This move is welcome, but I rather doubt In-n-Out has labor policies half so enlightened as Dick's does.
2) This move is welcome, but I rather doubt In-n-Out has labor policies half so enlightened as Dick's does.
10
#9 - For what it's worth, In-n-Out has a very similar labor policy as Dick's. High (relatively) starting wage, tuition reimbursement, all that stuff. Dicks has better fries and never got all silly and put religious tracts on their containers, but In-n-Out makes a better burger.
Thankfully there's a Super Duper (better than In-n-Out) within walking distance. A sleepy second half of the day, here I come.
Thankfully there's a Super Duper (better than In-n-Out) within walking distance. A sleepy second half of the day, here I come.
12
Let me add me vote for "In n Out is very ordinary." People really must not know what a good burger tastes like.
15
Burgerville is the best. I wish for one of those in Seattle. I can only get it when I'm going south now but always do.
16
@10: Er, what? In-N-Out doesn't put "religious tracts" on their wrappers and cups; all they put on there is Bible references (book, chapter and verse), in very small type.
And I'm sorry, but anyone bothered by that might as well get in line behind the people who were shitting bricks over Starbucks putting an Armistead Maupin quote on their cups a few years ago.
"We tend to become like the worst in those we oppose." - Frank Herbert
And I'm sorry, but anyone bothered by that might as well get in line behind the people who were shitting bricks over Starbucks putting an Armistead Maupin quote on their cups a few years ago.
"We tend to become like the worst in those we oppose." - Frank Herbert
18
I love me some In n Out, I don't give a hooch what other people say, and since it hasn't been said yet, In N Out burgers go best with PILES OF COCAINE AND MALT LIQUOR.
20
@19 - Someone who doesn't think the fries at Dicks are "sooooooo good"? I thought I was alone.
To me, the reason In-N-Out is held in high regard in Southern California is because the company, cleverly, doesn't oversaturate any particular market with too many locations (not counting Los Angeles, which I never do. Sorry Lindy). As such, you sometimes have to go ever-so-slightly out of your way to get to an In-N-Out, which makes it a bit of an occasion. I live in FagCentral, San Diego, and the closest ones are all a highway away.
I'd rather have a California burrito when I'm wasted anyway.
To me, the reason In-N-Out is held in high regard in Southern California is because the company, cleverly, doesn't oversaturate any particular market with too many locations (not counting Los Angeles, which I never do. Sorry Lindy). As such, you sometimes have to go ever-so-slightly out of your way to get to an In-N-Out, which makes it a bit of an occasion. I live in FagCentral, San Diego, and the closest ones are all a highway away.
I'd rather have a California burrito when I'm wasted anyway.
22
@16 - My mistake, it is Bible references. To be honest, I haven't noticed one in years, but they were always pretty low key. I don't think anyone was really all that bothered by them.
@19 - Depend what you like. I'm good with Dick's fries, floppy, salty, greasy. Not the best, but works for me, though I doubt I've ever eaten them sober. In-n-Out fries are chalky and hollow, piping hot when your number is called, and cold by the time you sit down. Something's off, like maybe they aren't blanched before frying?
@20 - I think you're spot on, not counting Fisherman's Warf, which is a world away, the nearest In-n-Outs are effectively a freeway away from me as well. They say it's to keep it all under a day's drive from distro, but it sure has the added effect you mentioned.
@19 - Depend what you like. I'm good with Dick's fries, floppy, salty, greasy. Not the best, but works for me, though I doubt I've ever eaten them sober. In-n-Out fries are chalky and hollow, piping hot when your number is called, and cold by the time you sit down. Something's off, like maybe they aren't blanched before frying?
@20 - I think you're spot on, not counting Fisherman's Warf, which is a world away, the nearest In-n-Outs are effectively a freeway away from me as well. They say it's to keep it all under a day's drive from distro, but it sure has the added effect you mentioned.
24
So, do you all need to know that an animal died for your pleasure in order enjoy a meal?
What if you could find food that was just as satisfying -- and I contend much more satisfying -- than corpse-based dishes? Wouldn't that be even better?
I invite you to sink your teeth into a rich, thick, juicy burger from Hillside Quickie or Sage Cafe and tell me you don't experience an instant flavorgasm.
What if you could find food that was just as satisfying -- and I contend much more satisfying -- than corpse-based dishes? Wouldn't that be even better?
I invite you to sink your teeth into a rich, thick, juicy burger from Hillside Quickie or Sage Cafe and tell me you don't experience an instant flavorgasm.
26
@24: Also, as long as you are using a computer or living in a building, you are not a vegan.
But I think vegans hate facts as much as they hate meat.
But I think vegans hate facts as much as they hate meat.
27
Aww, Teddy. Are you still upset from that spanking I gave you a while back?
Well, everything I said there remains true:
Two options remain then:
1) You really are as stupid as you appear, and you actually believe the idiocy you spew here
or
2) You are knowingly and deliberately making these outlandishly meritless claims because you genuinely lack even a shred of honor or integrity
Perhaps it is a combination of the two?
Well, everything I said there remains true:
You've declared that corn plants are "conscious", that vegans can't eat yeast (which are in fact unicellular fungi) because they are "living creatures", and that just about all matter in the universe is made out of animals. (BTW, petroleum use has nothing to do with veganism, dipshit. Using eons-old biomass does not (necessarily) involve exploiting sentient beings.)
Your comments exhibit an extreme dearth of scientific comprehension and are utterly bereft of intellectual integrity.
You, sir, are plainly an idiot and your opinion is worthless. Your desperation to evade the culpability of participating in animal exploitation is pathetic.
Two options remain then:
1) You really are as stupid as you appear, and you actually believe the idiocy you spew here
or
2) You are knowingly and deliberately making these outlandishly meritless claims because you genuinely lack even a shred of honor or integrity
Perhaps it is a combination of the two?
28
And sorry, Teddy, but you haven't presented any facts, you deal exclusively in fabrications.
You clearly have a low opinion of your fellow SLOG readers if you believe you're going to sway anyone with your mendacity.
Since all you're doing at this point is trotting out verbatim the same stupid, dishonest, long-debunked claims that you've been polluting this site with for quite a while, all I can do is repeat myself.
More...
You clearly have a low opinion of your fellow SLOG readers if you believe you're going to sway anyone with your mendacity.
Since all you're doing at this point is trotting out verbatim the same stupid, dishonest, long-debunked claims that you've been polluting this site with for quite a while, all I can do is repeat myself.
Your point is dumb. You've attempted to hock it here on SLOG before and it was debunked then (remember? -- in the thread where you claimed that corn plants were "conscious"):
It's true that many manufacturers unnecessarily use animal products in their processes (such as bone char used to filter sugar, gelatin used to clarify alcoholic beverages) when non-animal substitutes would suffice. The informed vegan will make an attempt to choose products that don't exploit animals at any stage of production. Unfortunately there are times it can't be avoided.
This does not annul one's status as a vegan. (You, sir, are no arbiter of veganism.) A vegan is someone who makes a reasonable effort to not purchase or consume products that involve the exploitation of animals.
Also, the use of animal "byproducts" in manufacturing processes does not create nearly the economic pull for animal exploitation that consuming animal-based food and clothing does.
When people stop consuming animals for food and clothing, the cost of animal byproducts will skyrocket and manufacturers will be forced to use vegan alternatives.
Further, while many products on the market sadly contain some kind of animal byproduct, they are not nearly as prevalent as you claim.
The one thing you corpse-eating whack jobs seem to have in common is an absolute disregard for substantiating evidence. You spew post after post of nonsensical bullshit with nary a supporting reference in sight.
Clearly you're not concerned with your own credibility.
30
in-n-out is coming to bellevue http://www.eatbellevue.com/2011/04/in-n-… and i cannot be happier. i just don't want the sonics to land there but if i can go there for din tai fung, i can certainly go and get a burger. hell, bellevue has a great german deli too.
32
Hear ye, hear ye, court is now in session. On trial, all the lions, tigers, mountain lions, jaguars, crocodiles, alligators, and wild dogs of the world, for the horrendous crime of (gasp!) premeditated murder. And all over the ridiculous notion that they were hungry and meat is good to eat. Court is now in session; you may be seated.
33
@31 WOW! Wow. And murder is even worse that rape. And. On that scale! That's worse than than a hundred holocausts!
You must not even sleep with figurative Hitlers surrounding you 24/7 every where you turn.
My god. What are dong about it?
I bet you're totally like arming yourself and staging guerrilla raids on abattoirs right? Or at least petitioning the UN.
I know if I knew murder was happening right next door to me I do everything in my power to stop it.
So you must be, right?
You must not even sleep with figurative Hitlers surrounding you 24/7 every where you turn.
My god. What are dong about it?
I bet you're totally like arming yourself and staging guerrilla raids on abattoirs right? Or at least petitioning the UN.
I know if I knew murder was happening right next door to me I do everything in my power to stop it.
So you must be, right?
34
No, I don't practice or promote violence.
Heck, even protesting animal exploitation can get you labelled a terrorist these days. (Are you OK with that?)
No I don't do any of those things. What I do is focus my efforts on informing people like yourself of the costs and ethical error of animal exploitation, and the benefits of veganism.
That was a cute you little ambush you set up there, though. But here, let me break it down for you:
Murdering an animal is wrong. Murdering a person is probably "more wrong".
Don't do either.
Does that confuse you?
Heck, even protesting animal exploitation can get you labelled a terrorist these days. (Are you OK with that?)
No I don't do any of those things. What I do is focus my efforts on informing people like yourself of the costs and ethical error of animal exploitation, and the benefits of veganism.
That was a cute you little ambush you set up there, though. But here, let me break it down for you:
Murdering an animal is wrong. Murdering a person is probably "more wrong".
Don't do either.
Does that confuse you?
35
@32
So, let's see. Out of the following animals, which ones possess the faculties of ethical awareness and logical reasoning: lions, tigers, mountain lions, jaguars, crocodiles, alligators, wild dogs, and humans?
That's right, just humans (I hope you that includes you, but maybe I shouldn't make assumptions).
And which of those animals can not only survive, but actually thrive on a purely plant-based diet?
Again, the answer is humans.
Also, do you really believe your opinion that "meat is good to eat" justifies killing animals?
I'm sure any cannibal will tell you that human flesh is "good to eat", and will cite the fact that tigers, bears, and sharks all eat humans. So... I guess it's OK to kill and eat humans?
Anyway, why don't you try your rationalization again when you can report that you obtain all of your meat by personally fighting prey animals tooth-and-nail in the wild -- or when lions, tigers, and bears begin factory farm operations, removing animals from their natural habitat, keeping them confined and packed into artificially-sustained-and-reproduced populations orders of magnitude more dense than nature would ever allow.
So, let's see. Out of the following animals, which ones possess the faculties of ethical awareness and logical reasoning: lions, tigers, mountain lions, jaguars, crocodiles, alligators, wild dogs, and humans?
That's right, just humans (I hope you that includes you, but maybe I shouldn't make assumptions).
And which of those animals can not only survive, but actually thrive on a purely plant-based diet?
Again, the answer is humans.
Also, do you really believe your opinion that "meat is good to eat" justifies killing animals?
I'm sure any cannibal will tell you that human flesh is "good to eat", and will cite the fact that tigers, bears, and sharks all eat humans. So... I guess it's OK to kill and eat humans?
Anyway, why don't you try your rationalization again when you can report that you obtain all of your meat by personally fighting prey animals tooth-and-nail in the wild -- or when lions, tigers, and bears begin factory farm operations, removing animals from their natural habitat, keeping them confined and packed into artificially-sustained-and-reproduced populations orders of magnitude more dense than nature would ever allow.
36
#34
Yes. It was an ambush. And of course you proved my point perfectly.
I don't eat meat very often. I was a strict vegan for two or three years and my health WAS severely impacted. So I lightened up. I had too. But I've read all the same books you have. I know you. People like you made it way easier to stop being a vegan. Not easier.
I no longer lable myself and try best that I can and exist mostly vegetarian.
The animals rights argument for not eating meat is, while well intend, a purely emotional argument.
You don't REALLY believe killing animals for food is "murder." It's only kind of un-ethical and vaguely analogous to human murder. It's a cute rhetorical tactic. But you don't really believe it. Otherwise you'd dedicate your life to stopping it like one would stopping the holocaust if one knew about it.
You compartmentalize and rationalize just like everybody else.
Is it about getting the message out? Really? Is it about saving lives? Really? Is it about sacrificing pleasure for a greater good? Really?
For instance. You are using a a device right now that utilizes strategic minerals the extraction, processing and assembly of which cause magnificent levels of human suffering. You don't HAVE to have it. You don't. Billions of people don't own computers.
Yet. Hundreds of millions more go without computers or the internet and they live just fine.
But you want a computer. It gives you pleasure to have a computer. So you rationalize that desire and pleasure and dismiss the consequences. Just like meat eaters.
You use electrical and fossile fuel burning devices. You live in technological communities. All of which contribute to global warming, ocean acidification, and pollution - the bigest human caused threats to all life on the planet thus far. Hundreds of millions of humans will suffer unless we stop doing what we are doing right now.
Again. We don't HAVE to live the lifestyle we live, just like most Americans don't HAVE to eat meat. Billions of people don't live our lifestyle and live just fine.
But you want it. It gives you pleasure to have ALL these things.
And again you rationalize these material desires and pleasures and dismiss the consequences. Just like meat eaters. Just like everybody.
It's not enough that you are confident in your own moral choices. You insist others HAVE to agree with them too or you're afraid they are no longer valid.
You make choices for you. Great. Tell people you think there is a better way. That's great. But lay off the moralizing. It just makes a rampant hypocrite. And I guarantee you it wins no argument OR converts.
More...
Yes. It was an ambush. And of course you proved my point perfectly.
I don't eat meat very often. I was a strict vegan for two or three years and my health WAS severely impacted. So I lightened up. I had too. But I've read all the same books you have. I know you. People like you made it way easier to stop being a vegan. Not easier.
I no longer lable myself and try best that I can and exist mostly vegetarian.
The animals rights argument for not eating meat is, while well intend, a purely emotional argument.
You don't REALLY believe killing animals for food is "murder." It's only kind of un-ethical and vaguely analogous to human murder. It's a cute rhetorical tactic. But you don't really believe it. Otherwise you'd dedicate your life to stopping it like one would stopping the holocaust if one knew about it.
You compartmentalize and rationalize just like everybody else.
Is it about getting the message out? Really? Is it about saving lives? Really? Is it about sacrificing pleasure for a greater good? Really?
For instance. You are using a a device right now that utilizes strategic minerals the extraction, processing and assembly of which cause magnificent levels of human suffering. You don't HAVE to have it. You don't. Billions of people don't own computers.
Yet. Hundreds of millions more go without computers or the internet and they live just fine.
But you want a computer. It gives you pleasure to have a computer. So you rationalize that desire and pleasure and dismiss the consequences. Just like meat eaters.
You use electrical and fossile fuel burning devices. You live in technological communities. All of which contribute to global warming, ocean acidification, and pollution - the bigest human caused threats to all life on the planet thus far. Hundreds of millions of humans will suffer unless we stop doing what we are doing right now.
Again. We don't HAVE to live the lifestyle we live, just like most Americans don't HAVE to eat meat. Billions of people don't live our lifestyle and live just fine.
But you want it. It gives you pleasure to have ALL these things.
And again you rationalize these material desires and pleasures and dismiss the consequences. Just like meat eaters. Just like everybody.
It's not enough that you are confident in your own moral choices. You insist others HAVE to agree with them too or you're afraid they are no longer valid.
You make choices for you. Great. Tell people you think there is a better way. That's great. But lay off the moralizing. It just makes a rampant hypocrite. And I guarantee you it wins no argument OR converts.
37
@36
And tkc adds yet another chapter to his ever-growing Book of Blather. I guess that's one tactic you can always resort to: inundate your opponent with so much twaddle that he simply quits out of boredom.
OK, first off, kiddo: you don't know shit about me or my beliefs beyond what I've told you here. It is profoundly arrogant for you to make such a wild proclamation. Your conjecture about my beliefs and motives is, of course, categorically wrong.
I REALLY do believe that killing an animal is murder. Because it is. Every animal is born into this world with a will to live. Animals experience a wide range of emotions including joy and fear. They socialize and explore and learn and play (and play) and love. For you to destroy that life simply to indulge your own taste buds -- yep, that's murder.
Regarding your litany of specious criticism and "you-statements"
(there are 28 instances of the word "you" in that single post):
Sorry guy, but you don't have the slightest clue what my choices as a consumer are. As a matter of fact I increasingly follow the recommendations of ethical consumer guides such as the Better World Shopper in order minimize my personal degradation of the environment, society, and animals.
Yes, of course human civilization takes an unnecessary toll on the environment. But this does nothing to mitigate the fact that it is wrong to exploit and kill animals to sate your cravings. Your notion that if we have a little blood on our hands as a consequence of our choices as consumers, then this justifies doing more harm to animals and the environment is FLAGRANTLY STUPID. The answer is to do less harm, not more.
You can be either ethical or you can be a meat eater. You can't be both. The choice is yours.
Finally, if you felt your health was compromised by your vegan diet then frankly you were doing it wrong. In fact many nutrition experts find that proper vegan diets improve health:
It is important for vegans to be mindful that their diet must be supplemented with a few nutrients, as outlined at www.veganhealth.org. Provided these needs are met, the vegan diet can provide optimal nutrition. In fact, the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada had this to say about vegan diets:
Vegans win Olympic gold medals, vegans win ultramarathons, vegans build tremendous muscle mass, vegans are highly accomplished actors and musicians.
These people are healthy. Many millions of vegans around the world are healthy. I have been vegan for over five years and I am healthier than ever -- I've lost my paunch, my complexion is great, and I rarely catch even so much as a cold.
P.S.
Your obsession with me is flattering, but please know that I don't like you in that way.
More...
And tkc adds yet another chapter to his ever-growing Book of Blather. I guess that's one tactic you can always resort to: inundate your opponent with so much twaddle that he simply quits out of boredom.
OK, first off, kiddo: you don't know shit about me or my beliefs beyond what I've told you here. It is profoundly arrogant for you to make such a wild proclamation. Your conjecture about my beliefs and motives is, of course, categorically wrong.
I REALLY do believe that killing an animal is murder. Because it is. Every animal is born into this world with a will to live. Animals experience a wide range of emotions including joy and fear. They socialize and explore and learn and play (and play) and love. For you to destroy that life simply to indulge your own taste buds -- yep, that's murder.
Regarding your litany of specious criticism and "you-statements"
(there are 28 instances of the word "you" in that single post):
Sorry guy, but you don't have the slightest clue what my choices as a consumer are. As a matter of fact I increasingly follow the recommendations of ethical consumer guides such as the Better World Shopper in order minimize my personal degradation of the environment, society, and animals.
Yes, of course human civilization takes an unnecessary toll on the environment. But this does nothing to mitigate the fact that it is wrong to exploit and kill animals to sate your cravings. Your notion that if we have a little blood on our hands as a consequence of our choices as consumers, then this justifies doing more harm to animals and the environment is FLAGRANTLY STUPID. The answer is to do less harm, not more.
You can be either ethical or you can be a meat eater. You can't be both. The choice is yours.
Finally, if you felt your health was compromised by your vegan diet then frankly you were doing it wrong. In fact many nutrition experts find that proper vegan diets improve health:
Physicians John A. McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Neal D. Barnard, Dean Ornish, Michael Greger, and nutritional biochemist T. Colin Campbell, argue that high animal fat and protein diets, such as the standard American diet, are detrimental to health, and that a low-fat vegan diet can both prevent and reverse degenerative diseases such as coronary artery disease and diabetes
It is important for vegans to be mindful that their diet must be supplemented with a few nutrients, as outlined at www.veganhealth.org. Provided these needs are met, the vegan diet can provide optimal nutrition. In fact, the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada had this to say about vegan diets:
Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate, antioxidants such as vitamins C and E, and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than non-vegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease, lower blood cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer.
Vegans win Olympic gold medals, vegans win ultramarathons, vegans build tremendous muscle mass, vegans are highly accomplished actors and musicians.
These people are healthy. Many millions of vegans around the world are healthy. I have been vegan for over five years and I am healthier than ever -- I've lost my paunch, my complexion is great, and I rarely catch even so much as a cold.
P.S.
Your obsession with me is flattering, but please know that I don't like you in that way.
41
You are all high on crack.
Dick's sucks the big one. Mandatory mustard and pickles on a burger?! Beyond moronic.
No other fast food burger, fries or chocolate shake come within a million miles of In N Out.
Dick's sucks the big one. Mandatory mustard and pickles on a burger?! Beyond moronic.
No other fast food burger, fries or chocolate shake come within a million miles of In N Out.
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