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News & ArtsMonday, August 27, 2012
2012 Chris Matthews Rips Reince Priebus on Race Cards, Dog Whistles, Birth Certificates
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM
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More like this, please. (Via Towleroad.)
1
It's a shame that Chris Matthews couldn't keep his cool while doing this. You always come off better when you keep cool and don't seem to be getting out of hand, especially if the person you're going after is keeping their cool. By failing to keep his cool Chris Matthew has made it easy to spin this as "Chris Matthews Attacks Reince Priebus" instead of "Chris Matthews Points Out the Fallacies Spun/Perpetuated by Reince Priebus".
3
@1 This is the classic liberal fallacy, though I understand it on the principled view. The reason, though, that the emotional aspects of modern "conservatism" outstrip the "logical/intellectual" ones is because people respond more immediately and deeply to it.
No, Matthews isn't answering in the tone that he should (see also: Tonal Fallacy), but he's not speaking to birthers. People like my mom, older slightly-more conservative swing voters, however, may just as easily see this as Chris Matthews' "Principled Outrage".
No, Matthews isn't answering in the tone that he should (see also: Tonal Fallacy), but he's not speaking to birthers. People like my mom, older slightly-more conservative swing voters, however, may just as easily see this as Chris Matthews' "Principled Outrage".
4
@1
"Keeping his cool" is what Tom Brokaw did there--a excusing of Romney for his "awkward sense of humor," a mild rebuke to the Republicans for the "stuff aimed at the President" during the primaries and Republican debates, and a "concession" that the Democrats do it, too.
Yep, that would have totally gotten us to "Chris Matthews Points Out the Fallacies Spun/Perpetuated by Reince Priebus," no doubt about it. If fact, just look at how Brokaw's remarks are lighting up the internet even as we speak.
"Keeping his cool" is what Tom Brokaw did there--a excusing of Romney for his "awkward sense of humor," a mild rebuke to the Republicans for the "stuff aimed at the President" during the primaries and Republican debates, and a "concession" that the Democrats do it, too.
Yep, that would have totally gotten us to "Chris Matthews Points Out the Fallacies Spun/Perpetuated by Reince Priebus," no doubt about it. If fact, just look at how Brokaw's remarks are lighting up the internet even as we speak.
5
@2
He did let the Priebus answer.
But Priebus wasn't able to directly address the point.
No matter how many times Romney SAYS that he believes Obama was born in the US as soon as Romney makes a racist birther joke Romney has made a racist birther joke.
Priebus wasn't even able to identify what the "joke" was if it wasn't (as he claimed) a racist birther joke.
He did let the Priebus answer.
But Priebus wasn't able to directly address the point.
No matter how many times Romney SAYS that he believes Obama was born in the US as soon as Romney makes a racist birther joke Romney has made a racist birther joke.
Priebus wasn't even able to identify what the "joke" was if it wasn't (as he claimed) a racist birther joke.
8
@1, Matthews' ranting schtick is pretty established by now. I get the feeling he's doing the best he can - he doesn't score every shot but he keeps taking 'em at least.
9
A thing to consider too is that middle-of-the-road voters do not like to be associated with "dirty tricks" (such as the frantic attempts by Romney to claim that Obama is practicing "Chicago-style" politics).
In those cases, making a rationed, measured rebuttal doesn't corroborate the charge. In order to make that one stick, you need to hit the emotional buttons and Matthews pointing out the inherent racism of Romney's "joke" does just that. Voters do not just prefer "outraged" to "reasoned"-- people need it in order to believe that Birtherism and it ilk are Big Fucking Bad News Bears and not Whining About It.
In those cases, making a rationed, measured rebuttal doesn't corroborate the charge. In order to make that one stick, you need to hit the emotional buttons and Matthews pointing out the inherent racism of Romney's "joke" does just that. Voters do not just prefer "outraged" to "reasoned"-- people need it in order to believe that Birtherism and it ilk are Big Fucking Bad News Bears and not Whining About It.
11
good for matthews calling out romney and the GOP on this on-going bullshit about birth certificates and socialism (among many other fallicies). romney in his "joke" was firing up the birthers troops to perpetuate easily one of the most embarrassing tactics in political history. romney can go on the donald trump show and blow smoke up each others asses about birth certificates...
12
Emotional appeals are more broadly convincing to most people than intellectual ones. Regardless of the efficacy of Chris’ approach, I'm just glad to see someone take on the clear attempts of the Republicans to make Obama seem alien and 'other' (in a clear cryptogram racism), especially after guys like Reince go around crying foul about mud slinging.
Also nice to see any National Committee chair (R or D) get their feathers ruffled. Everything they say is always so canned, I often feel they might as well just send a cardboard cutout and an ipod with a playlist of responses, bit not this time.
Also nice to see any National Committee chair (R or D) get their feathers ruffled. Everything they say is always so canned, I often feel they might as well just send a cardboard cutout and an ipod with a playlist of responses, bit not this time.
13
@7 You sound so down in the dumps, sweetie. Maybe you should go watch Trimuph of the Will or something? I hate to see you in this kind of funk.
14
There was a moment there when I think you could see Reince soil himself. Pitbulls could learn a thing or two from Chris!
16
Oily, smirking Preibus won the visuals, and that's unfortunate.
Matthews had analytical logic and truth on his side. Preibus had only his confident, lying visage to go with his refutable talking points.
I can't quite figure out what the Republicans are doing. I mean, I know they're running a carefully coordinated and emotionally impactful propaganda campaign full of misinformation and innuendo, I just can't figure out how. How do they get away with it enough to make the impact that they're making?
Goebbels would be proud.
Matthews had analytical logic and truth on his side. Preibus had only his confident, lying visage to go with his refutable talking points.
I can't quite figure out what the Republicans are doing. I mean, I know they're running a carefully coordinated and emotionally impactful propaganda campaign full of misinformation and innuendo, I just can't figure out how. How do they get away with it enough to make the impact that they're making?
Goebbels would be proud.
17
Finally, someone from the media calls them on their bullshit and portraying themselves as victims. I don't think Mathews is liberal. The Romney campaign is just a joke.
18
It isn't like those are mutually exclusive propositions, @17. Matthews worked for Jimmy Carter and Tip O'neil, vocally supported Obama, and would have run as a Democrat for US Senate a couple years back had the opportunity seemed better. He may not be a leftist, but his views and history suggest he falls somewhere in the broad liberal/progressive spectrum.
Again, that doesn't render his argument invalid.
Again, that doesn't render his argument invalid.
19
This is great. While I normally despise Chris Matthews, he did well on this day. It is strange how passionate debate was greeted with extreme awkwardness by all the other journalists and guests on that show.
The right remembers very fondly their William Buckley who debated with similar passion - I recall seeing him tell somebody to shut up before he punches the guy in the face. Now we're all ninnies who can't take an impassioned argument.
The right remembers very fondly their William Buckley who debated with similar passion - I recall seeing him tell somebody to shut up before he punches the guy in the face. Now we're all ninnies who can't take an impassioned argument.
20
It's hard to know what is "effective" as many on here seem to want to argue. Is Tom Brokaw "effective?" He certainly diminishes any criticism when he says "both sides do it." In other words, there's no value judgement to be made, since both sides are guilty of the same.
But, what is the equivalence here? I agree with Matthews that the birther stance and Romney's joke are racist. Period. It's racist. And, the "socialist" comments are also beyond the pale; I again agree with Matthews.
Sometimes, you have to ruffle feathers. The Republicans want to have their Tea Party radicals, their Talk-show wing nuts, and their cake too. They want to be able to come into the mainstream media and profess no allegiance to or understanding of the very real propaganda campaign that's "out there," and yet, go to the luncheons and the speeches and the rallies and speak in code on the stump in support of those groups.
This all can't be talked about in niceties and forgiveness. And yet, of course, all speech has to be effective.
The balance is tricky. But, I think Matthews outrage has a role here.
But, what is the equivalence here? I agree with Matthews that the birther stance and Romney's joke are racist. Period. It's racist. And, the "socialist" comments are also beyond the pale; I again agree with Matthews.
Sometimes, you have to ruffle feathers. The Republicans want to have their Tea Party radicals, their Talk-show wing nuts, and their cake too. They want to be able to come into the mainstream media and profess no allegiance to or understanding of the very real propaganda campaign that's "out there," and yet, go to the luncheons and the speeches and the rallies and speak in code on the stump in support of those groups.
This all can't be talked about in niceties and forgiveness. And yet, of course, all speech has to be effective.
The balance is tricky. But, I think Matthews outrage has a role here.
22
I don't have his c.v. in front of me, but I characterize Mathews' views as liberal. The Romney campaign are running racist ads that are false, and claiming the other is mean. Tom Brokaw is being really lazy with 'both sides do it.'
23
It's not original with me, but if you remove all the vowels from "Reince Priebus," it very appropriately resolves to RNC PR BS.
28
Chris was right on, and a bit over the top. But Reince came across as a turd, especially when he went to the obama's policy is Foreign. He seemed scared - most avg joe's would score that one for Chris.
BTW, Reince Priebus is the most unAmerican name i've heard in a while. He looks a bit like that dude from 3rd Rock from the sun.
BTW, Reince Priebus is the most unAmerican name i've heard in a while. He looks a bit like that dude from 3rd Rock from the sun.
29
Chris Matthews ROCKS. He put that spineless little "Preebus" in his fucking place. We need more of this. This is what will change the word "liberal" from the GOP's standards, a shameful, wimpy label to a badge of honor. Americans see politics as sport - so it's time for the left to KICK SOME ASS - and Chris Matthews is out there throwing punches.
Call out these asshats, EVERY CHANCE WE GET !
Call out these asshats, EVERY CHANCE WE GET !
30
ugh, Chris Matthews makes me ashamed to be a liberal.
Can we swap him out for Rachel Maddow? (who makes me proud to be a liberal)
Seriously Chris, GO AWAY, we don't want you to represent us with your shouty talk and inability to have a respectful discussion or move the conversation forward.
Can we swap him out for Rachel Maddow? (who makes me proud to be a liberal)
Seriously Chris, GO AWAY, we don't want you to represent us with your shouty talk and inability to have a respectful discussion or move the conversation forward.
32
I think it was awesome. You could see on Priebus's face how he just had no response. The "foreignization" of Obama is so drilled into him that he couldn't even fall back on his stock answers because those were filled with the same thing for which he was being attacked.
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