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Thursday, October 18, 2012

Either Romney Was Lying to GOP Base During the Primaries...

Posted by on Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:55 AM

...or he's lying to the American people now.

Some enterprising young reporter might want to ask Mitt which it is: was he lying then or is he lying now?

 

Comments (50) RSS

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Fifty-Two-Eighty 1
Ha! The joke's on you — he's lying to everybody.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on October 18, 2012 at 9:58 AM · Report this
2
poor poor buttsore Liberals....

no one cares about your "facts".
Posted by UWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! on October 18, 2012 at 10:00 AM · Report this
3
Was Obama LYING when he said he opposed gay "marriage" in 2008 or is he LYING now?.....
Posted by actually, no one gives a shit. he's gone in three weeks on October 18, 2012 at 10:05 AM · Report this
Max Solomon 4
Ha! The joke's on you - he doesn't talk to enterprising young reporters!
Posted by Max Solomon on October 18, 2012 at 10:06 AM · Report this
5
"Some enterprising young reporter might want to ask Mitt"

Right. If they can find him. Mitt's gonna be in a media-free bunker until Election Day. They're hiding him where they hid Cheney.
Posted by Cow on October 18, 2012 at 10:07 AM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 6
Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!
Posted by Urgutha Forka on October 18, 2012 at 10:08 AM · Report this
7
This is not just LYING....

it is Political Terrorism!

Obama just said so........
Posted by .....ask Joy Behar if you don't believe us on October 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM · Report this
cressona 8
Calling somebody a liar is a conversation stopper along the lines of Godwin's law. And I'm not even sure "lie" is the most apt word to characterize the remarkable rhetoric that comes out of Romney's mouth.

To me, the best word is bullshit, and I don't necessarily mean that in a derogatory way. There's a certain genius to how Romney is able to not only change positions on issues but to occupy all possible positions on an issue at all times, and to deny the consequences of those positions at the same time. The most magical example of that is his 20% across-the-board tax cut and $2 trillion increase in defense spending that are completely paid for and yet, at the same time, come with all the benefits of not being paid for.

The other word that comes to mind with Romney is chutzpah. It takes a certain chutzpah to do what Romney did in the debate and pivot from his "let Detroit go bankrupt" into taking credit for Obama's not letting Detroit go bankrupt.
Posted by cressona on October 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM · Report this
Big Matt G 9
@6) Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!
Posted by Big Matt G on October 18, 2012 at 10:10 AM · Report this
10
The GOP base don't care if they're lied to as long as they vote out the black man with the scary sounding name. At this point, Romney could announce he'll have a buttsex party and free abortions in the rose garden after his inauguration, and the GOP base will still vote for him.
Posted by Vadt on October 18, 2012 at 10:12 AM · Report this
Big Matt G 11
The only thing we can say about Romney with any certainty is that he really, REALLY wants to be President.
Posted by Big Matt G on October 18, 2012 at 10:13 AM · Report this
Big Matt G 12
@10) Hell, I'd vote for that!
Posted by Big Matt G on October 18, 2012 at 10:14 AM · Report this
13
@1 Not hardly!

All of Mitt's positions have a Heisenbergian quality to them and can not be described using such Newtonian constructs as "lies".

No, until we open the ballot boxes and look inside, Mitt's positions exist in a true Schrödinger state.
Posted by Carol Kane, as Valerie on October 18, 2012 at 10:18 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 14
@5 is right: We will hear about five words from him after Monday's debate, and no reporters will be allowed within a hundred yards.

I just can't understand why half the county is going to vote for this guy after he specifically said that half the country were worthless leeches undeserving of food, and he will not even try to help them.

It is like some kind of weird movie.
Posted by Theodore Gorath on October 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM · Report this
Banna 15
It's not lying if you actually believe in what you're saying at the time you say them. Romney's been so consistently flexible on his stances, I actually think he believes these things as he says them; he just has no actual moral center or core beliefs (beyond making money and amassing power) to base his opinions on.
Posted by Banna http://www.ucp.org on October 18, 2012 at 10:22 AM · Report this
Free Lunch 16
Interesting - the ad is running only in Virginia. Do they think they have that big a lock on Ohio?

Note the ad does take the comment slightly out of context. The next sentence was, “But that’s not where we are. That’s not where America is today.”

So basically, he absolutely would ban it if presented the opportunity, but he sees that opportunity as unlikely. I don't think voters will take much solace in that distinction.
Posted by Free Lunch on October 18, 2012 at 10:30 AM · Report this
cressona 17
My goodness, here I say that his tax plan is "the most magical example" of Romney's ability to be everywhere and nowhere on an issue, and then on this very page I see this ad for Romney/Ryan:
"Obamacare is wrong, and I'll repeal it." - Mitt Romney

Mitt, thank you for the reminder. How could I forget your position on Obamacare, a position which seems to exist simultaneously in multiple parallel universes?

But here's where the genius comes in. Obama has facts and reality and arithmetic on his side, he should be crushing Romney, and yet, with his bullshit and chutzpah, Romney has created this Matrix that can stand up to the most bruising fact-based attacks.
Posted by cressona on October 18, 2012 at 10:31 AM · Report this
pg13 18
I don't know how there can be any remaining "undecided voters"--but, when the media finds them and interviews them...they almost always say the same thing. They say, "I have this sense that Romney would be better for the economy but I lean towards Obama on social issues."

It is astonishing to me, but probably smart strategy, that the Obama campaign is, at this point, basically giving up on explaining how horrible Romney actually would be for the economy and instead is trying to solidify the social issues side.

It shows me, too, how many Americans have a nearly religious faith in the vague idea of "business" to lead them to heaven. Despite everything they know about Romney's plans (and everything Romney won't share about the specifics of his plans)--they still have a vague belief that he somehow would be better for the economy...

"Maybe THIS time it'll work out good for us" is an impossible gut feeling to fight.
Posted by pg13 on October 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM · Report this
19
@15 "[Romney]. . . has no actual moral center or core beliefs (beyond making money and amassing power)"

A man after my own heart! Perhaps I'll vote for him after all.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 18, 2012 at 10:40 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 20
@17: The biggest two assets for Mitt Romney is his white skin and the inability of half the electorate to think rationally about anything, or remember anything that happened a month ago.

Scratch that, only two assets.
Posted by Theodore Gorath on October 18, 2012 at 10:40 AM · Report this
21
I truly hate to agree with @1, that douchetard, but he's correct (this one time only), Dano only believes in two possibilities to every event as he's obvious frigging bi-polar.

Silly Willy Romney is lying both times, Dano! (Word up, dood, there are usually more than two possibilities or variables to a given situation.)

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/201…
Posted by sgt_doom on October 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM · Report this
22
@20 The ignorance and apathy of the average voter is one of the basic problems with democracy.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 18, 2012 at 10:47 AM · Report this
23
Mitt's a good illustration of the downside of having the core principle of one's self-concept be "I am a good person" when you live in a bubble that protects you from all evidence to the contrary.
Result: nearly narcissistic levels of rationalization and self-referential logic.
Posted by YoungBS on October 18, 2012 at 10:58 AM · Report this
24
Never underestimate the stupidity of the average person.
Posted by Bugnroolet on October 18, 2012 at 11:00 AM · Report this
25
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guar…

Dammit!!! If you're going to go out and play, change your frigging clothes first!!!!!!

Posted by sgt_doom on October 18, 2012 at 11:09 AM · Report this
26
He's not flip-flopping, he's sliding between alternate earths, and each time he answers a question or talks to the press, we're actually talking to Mitt Romney +1 (or -1, depending on the quantum shift).

Seriously, is it his fault that reality keeps betraying him so much?
Posted by Chris B http://eccentric-orbit.org on October 18, 2012 at 11:10 AM · Report this
27
I'm suddenly struck with the resemblance to an Asimov robot story — I'm pretty sure it's "Liar" from I, Robot, where the robot interprets one of the Laws of Robotics a little wonkily ("Never cause harm to a human being, or through inaction allow a human being to come to harm") and starts telling everyone what they want to hear, even when it's fabricated or contradictory to other things it's said. Eventually Dr. Susan Calvin figures it out and talks the robot into a meltdown like Captain Kirk and the Alien Computer of the Week.

Mittens wants to tell every voter whatever s/he wants to hear in order to get him that vote. It's irrelevant if it's true, makes sense, or consistent with anything he's said previously, ever.

Maybe he really is a robot! =80
Posted by Action Kate on October 18, 2012 at 11:16 AM · Report this
28
To be fair, since he started running for president in 2008 Romney hasn't really flip-flopped on abortion. His message has consistently been that he's pro-life, but that, for him, restricting women's reproductive rights isn't a priority. If congress passed a bill banning all abortions he'd sign it, but he wouldn't try to persuade congress to pass such a bill either.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 18, 2012 at 11:26 AM · Report this
ArtBasketSara 29
Well, as I heard on a call-in segment on a radio show here in Canada...a Romney supporter complained about all the "this candidate lied, that candidate lied" talk. He was so annoyed by it all and wishes everyone would stop talking about which candidate lied or not....

And that's that. They don't want to hear it. It messes with their convictions and they see it as just more liberal whining. Civil rights, health care, truth...etc...

Posted by ArtBasketSara on October 18, 2012 at 11:26 AM · Report this
30
@29 How many times has Obama changed his position on gay marriage? Come on, they all do it.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 18, 2012 at 11:35 AM · Report this
31
@27 Asimov for the win! I remember that story. It does have some eerie parallels...

He's Schrodinger's candidate, holding all these opposing views simultaneously. Only after the election (if he wins) will his true policy positions settle into one observable state.
Posted by Nitidiuscula on October 18, 2012 at 11:43 AM · Report this
biffp 32
@8, I agree with you. I think it takes chutzpah to claim in a debate that your plan will create 12 million jobs, and 45 minutes later goose-step around the stage chanting, "government does not create jobs, government does not create jobs."
Posted by biffp on October 18, 2012 at 11:45 AM · Report this
33
Here's a helpful tip: If Willard's lips are moving, he's lying.
Posted by DrSlipnSlide on October 18, 2012 at 11:52 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 34
@8

But to me "chutzpah" still has the ability to be charming even while completely outrageous. Mitt's words OTOH convey oily and brazen contempt.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on October 18, 2012 at 11:55 AM · Report this
reverend dr dj riz 35
@30.. changing positions and lying are 2 different things, dont'cha think ?
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on October 18, 2012 at 12:00 PM · Report this
36
@35 If Obama's allowed to change his mind about gay marriage why isn't Mittens allowed to change his mind about abortion?
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 18, 2012 at 12:31 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 37
@36,

Maybe because he hasn't explained why he's "changed" his mind. Maybe because he has blatantly lied by claiming he's always been pro-life.
Posted by keshmeshi on October 18, 2012 at 12:37 PM · Report this
38
@28 Romney started running in 2006, when it was announced that he would be forming an exploratory committee.

Also, what you said was has never actually been his position; it's the just mean of his many positions, what you get when you try and fill in the gaps and try to make sense of a series of disjointed statements.

Posted by dirge on October 18, 2012 at 12:43 PM · Report this
39
@37 I don't think Romney has ever denied having singed pro-abortion legislation when he was governor of Massachusetts. He's said "Sorry about that, won't happen again."

@38 Since he got the Republican nomination has Mittens ever claimed not to be pro-life?
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 18, 2012 at 1:00 PM · Report this
COMTE 40
@36:

He is; it's just that Romney changes his position on a particular issue several times just in the course of a single sentence...
Posted by COMTE on October 18, 2012 at 1:06 PM · Report this
GhostDog 41
This is the one area where I feel a little sorry for Romney.

Here's the thing.

The Republican base that is involved in selecting a candidate for the president in the US is way, WAY far to the right. Unfortunately this base isn't enough to win an election on its own.

The most likely group that Romney could target to get the remaining votes are the moderates who tend to be only a little to the right(everything in the US is a little bit to the right, we don't really have an extreme left to speak of).

The problem is that what you have to say and commit to in order to get the Republican base on your side to agree with you(in order to make it through the primaries) and what you need to say to get elected are two very different things. This is pretty traditional in politics(run to the far left or right during the primaries and race to the middle afterwards) but in this cycle it has been much, much worse than in any time since the 1930's.

This is why Romney tends to be extremely vague and what little he does say is easily contradicted by what he said previously. If he, as a fairly moderate Republican, says or does what he really wants his base will revolt.

Which is why I won't vote for him. Even if he was the perfect candidate he will be at the beck and call of a base that I think are extremely bad for the country.
Posted by GhostDog on October 18, 2012 at 1:06 PM · Report this
samanthaf63 42
Still not voting for Obama.
Posted by samanthaf63 on October 18, 2012 at 1:55 PM · Report this
43
@42: Good for you, slave.
Posted by mubhappy on October 18, 2012 at 3:05 PM · Report this
44
the very rich can promote right or far right candidates because they can afford to live above the law and away from the lower and the middleclass.

drugs, sex, abortion for their people who need it, the best health care, gated neighborhoods, private schools etc. They are not effected by these issues....they live in a different world.

are romneys multiple positions really surprising? his main issues are preserving and protecting the oligarchy from whence he comes.

corporations are people, my friend.
Posted by Cassette tape fan on October 18, 2012 at 4:23 PM · Report this
45
@8: Oh sure, he occupies all possible positions at the same time. Except when he *doesn't*:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRN9Y5Nv…
Posted by gromm on October 18, 2012 at 7:44 PM · Report this
46
@41 (everything in the US is a little bit to the right, we don't really have an extreme left to speak of).
-------------------

You don't even really have a moderate left, in government. That's why all this "Obama is a socialist" nonsense is just flabbergasting to the rest of the world - in world-view terms, Obama is way way way over there, way on the right.

We're watching all of this, with no way to influence it, in horror. If the US goes completely batshit, it's gonna take a lot of us with it. Please do what you can to combat the craziness - sane, fact based thinking is really what is needed, now.
Posted by agony on October 19, 2012 at 5:19 AM · Report this
47
"Unfortunately this base isn't enough to win an election on its own."

"Unfortunately" is not the right word for this.
Posted by HyperValent on October 19, 2012 at 7:10 AM · Report this
deadrose 48
I'm purely horrified at how many of my relatives completely support Romney in every way. For some of them it's because they'd rather be flayed than vote for a Democrat, for others it all boils down to the skin color issue. They don't even notice the cognitive dissonance.

I'm glad there are a couple of sane branches in my family tree.
Posted by deadrose on October 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM · Report this
49
@13

I laughed like a dork for a solid minute at your comment.
Posted by not a registered person on October 19, 2012 at 8:46 PM · Report this
GhostDog 50
@46

"You don't even really have a moderate left, in government. That's why all this "Obama is a socialist" nonsense is just flabbergasting to the rest of the world - in world-view terms, Obama is way way way over there, way on the right. "

-----------------------

Well, I didn't want to be too extreme in my statement. However, what you say is true. I have a friend in Denmark that I talk to fairly regularly and we routinely amaze each other, her with the super left-ness of Denmark that she thinks is right and me with my super right-ness of the US that I think is left.

@47

""Unfortunately" is not the right word for this. "

What word would you think is more appropriate? Not to be snarky, more that I am not sure what you are getting at.
Posted by GhostDog on October 20, 2012 at 6:09 AM · Report this

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