Christian Right: "How come nobody wikes us? All we wanna do is persecute gay famblies and force women to have wape babies. And nobody wikes us! Wah!"

Comments

1
I've been suffering a bit of troll withdrawal ever since Tuesday. They seem to be in hiding. This oughtta bring 'em out in force. Looking forward to lots of awkward ellipsis use....
2
Stop! You hurt their widdle feewings, Dan!
3
“This election signaled the last where a white Christian strategy is workable,” said Robert P. Jones, chief executive of the Public Religion Research Institute, a nonprofit, nonpartisan research and education organization based in Washington.

“Barack Obama’s coalition was less than 4 in 10 white Christian,” Dr. Jones said. “He made up for that with not only overwhelming support from the African-American and Latino community, but also with the support of the religiously unaffiliated.”


Actually I think the last election signaled the last where a white Christian strategy was workable: that time, they won stuff.

Also, the "religiously unaffiliated" population is growing.
4
The fact that the tiny violin has a tiiiiny little case just cracks me up
5
“It’s not that our message...didn’t get out. It did get out. ...“An increasingly secularized America understands our positions, and has rejected them.”
This is a really big statement!

In the past, they've denied it, saying people secretly believed them but were bullied into silence, or that people will get in line with them once they know the issues.

He's admitting here that they've not only lost the battles, they've lost the whole war.

If so, could this actually be the turning point? Where the mass organized anti-gay, anti-female groups disappear and only fringe nutjobs remain? I think this could be it. This may have been the last election cycle where huge groups devoted against gays are present.

I think this is a real watershed moment.
6
@1 - I was wondering about them. Has anyone heard anything from our own little WorstNightmare? We're going to have to do our own trolling soon if they don't come back.
7
I believe it. The vitriol, bile, and bitterness that has come my way since Tuesday has been really sad. Fascinating thing is that the loudest ones are the ones that are single moms that I helped and fed through the domestic violence group. Quick is the fall from "sainthood" to "immoral". Social justice is obviously not their cup of tea.

I hope you are wearing those lovely platinum rings too, Dan. Your happiness is good for the world.
8
I'm happy that we won, and especially that the tide is really turning on LGBT equality issues.

But for 30 years I've been thinking the wingnuts could not possibly get any wingnuttier, and for 30 years I've been wrong. At this point I'm kind of hoping they'll double down. There will always be an opposition, and at least we know how to counter this one.
9
I guess the shill-trolls found that their funds dried up before the concession speech was over, too!
10
@6 I assume that StrangersWeakestTroll is lying curled up in a puddle of his own vomit, clutching a mostly-empty bottle of vokda in the back of his mom's closet.

But that doesn't have much to do with the election, it just means it's Saturday.
11
@5 I'm w/ you, this is a BIG watershed moment. It's just beginning to dawn on me.

What I'm worried about is that people, when backed into a corner, do crazy things. As rob! points out, these are the super-crazies, and they're armed.
12
I thought I already posted this but it didn't show up. I say this is a generation that wants more freedom in America, not less. The right represent less. Way less. It's taken my whole life to see the people finally waking up to who their oppressors are. I think it's the internet. It gives young people a new perspective. They can get to the Dans of the world.
13
I feel so sorry for them, complaining that they were outspent on gay marriage, otherwise they'd have got their way (again). Because when they do go all out to throw money at their bigoted goal, like in California last time, they win. They're upset that we won at their own game.

Put another way, it's like Romney and Rove accusing the other side of the thing that they do.
14
@ 1, don't count on it. They're hiding and will only start coming out when we start hearing bad news that they can wrongly blame on Obama.

@ 5, I sure hope so. I think maybe evangelical influence is finally waning, just as it did in the 20s and 30s. Of course, it's going to come around again, but not for many decades.

@ 7, nothing reveals a person's true character more than moments like this. I'm very sorry that people you helped have turned on you.
15
The reality is that their message got out, repeatedly. And their message was hateful, judgmental, offensive, bigoted, and medically inaccurate. The rest of us understood it. What they don't seem to grasp is that getting your message out is not the same as persuading your audience of its worth.
16
@ 13, with the next election cycle, the main thing we need to look for is an increase in small donations from the right. That's where we kicked ass this time. The mooching conservatives, in keeping with their style, just let the wealthy and corporations do all the heavy lifting this time.
17
I don't think they deserve sad trombone or tiny violin. A Ha ha! from Nelson, Yes.
18
@10 It's not that hard to drink yourself to death. Not that I would wish that on StrangersWhitestNobody. Or the anonymous DanHating DanLover. Oh, no. That would be wrong.
19
Hey.

We're Skipping to Gomorrah.

And getting closer every day.

Mohler hits it on the head:
this society is choosing depravity and perversion;
knowingly, willingly, with eyes wide open.

it is a step toward the collapse of civilization.

And it marks a line in the journey of America.

The Middle Class said:'we can't pay more taxes...'

Obama and the Moocher/Taker Class said:'we don't give a fuck'.

OKaaay......

If those are the new rules we can play too.

You will have to start funding your own depraved lifestyle.

You've seen the commercials about "for 35¢ a day you can feed a starving African child"?

you don't call.

Not because you don't care.

It is just overwhelming. This disfunctionality of those countries. The massive need. Helping one child would be a drop in a huge ocean. A far away ocean. A dysfunctional ocean that cries more starving children out in a minute than your 35¢ could ever impact. you just turn away....

America has become like that. In this election.

You have made your choices. And rejected our values.

We tried to stem the tide of suffering. We paid our taxes. Donated time and mnoney to charity groups (we are speaking of conservative Americans, of course- Liberals don't do the private charity thing. Their 'charity' is advocating for higher taxes...)

But we can't do it anymore.
financially we are tapped.
Obama's Economy has been tough on the productive Middle Class.

Danny's "Every Child...".
Heartbreaking.
The toll that raising children outside marriage inflicts on the children.

But you don't care.
You continue to normalize extramarital sex.
Shacking up.
Out of wed birth.
Murphy Brown.
Homosexual "Marriage".

You've won.

Congratulations.

Pay for your own depravity. Tax the Rich. Take everything they have. That will keep it going for six; eight weeks maybe.

It is the Middle Class that funds this government. But no more....

Did you know that a FIFTH of Americans are on Medicaid?
Food Stamps have DOUBLED under Obama....

Donate to ChildHaven.
It feels great, doesn't it?
A drop in the ocean.
An ocean swelled by the lifestyle choices Danny advocates.
And then when the INEVITABLE child abuse and neglect occur, Saint Danny feigns horror....
Those mean heterosexuals....
whatever.

Congratulations.

You've won.

We'll be clinging to our religion and guns. mostly guns.

We can't fix America.

But we can survive the collapse. And come out on the other side. Free and Strong.

Obama was right.

The Best is Yet to Come.

20
@ 14,

Thank you for your kind words, Matt. No worries for me. Some of them are working three jobs and are still barely making ends meet. They're scared.

Take care.
21
20

They should be.
Single Motherhood is a reliable path to poverty,
even in economic boom times.
In the Obama Economy?
Be Afraid.
Be Very Very Afraid......

They have been sold a bill of goods.
Murphy Brown!
Right....

Their children are the true victims.
They always are.
Liberal Lifestyle Choices are Hell on Children.
In fact, they are what gives Gomorrah it's particular schwing.....
22
What the Christian right doesn't understand is that many religious people voted against the Republicans also. There's a big part of religious American that thinks -- knows -- those people are dangerous. You don't have to be secular to make rational voting choices.
23
So for shits and giggles I decided to look at the anons, and I gotta ask:

Does the anonobot always write in blank verse, or only when he's extremely butthurt?
24
@15 Exactly. What they did was actually very effective. It showed Americans, in no uncertain terms, the right's lack of morals, empathy and complete lack of human decency. Their message came through loud and clear and the voters showed that we understood exactly where the extremists are coming from.
25
Now, that's more like it, @19. You got it all, stream of conscious whining, nonsensical linkages (what the hell does starving children have to do with depraved lifestyles?!), and even that old classic republican bogeyman, Murphey Brown (twice!). We thought the election might have been the end of you, but you're back again, taking precious time from your preparations for Armageddon to tell us sinners where we've gone wrong. And we do appreciate the time, but don't you think you should be busy stocking up on bibles and ammunition? Unless, of course, you don't believe a word of it yourself. But that's probably not it, right? Right?
26
Well, nothing seems to have happened to the girl group poser Supreme. That's troll enough for me.
27
@Dr Memory- near as I could tell, the anonymous troll always was extremely butt-hurt.
28
Troll, you're never gonna convince anyone until you stop writing like gullom. Seriously, your writing style is a major turn off. You're hurting your party more than helping.
29
Anon troll is welcome to be as insane and butthurt as he likes. It doesn't matter, because he has no power. I feel like Frodo facing the ruffians in the Shire: Your time is over.
30
How do these fucks maintain IRS tax-free status? Dammit, the IRS should nail these asshole churches and pull their non-profit (NOT!) tax-freedom.
31
@29 you're right. I still read all the comments in Gullom's voice though. SRotU in Alex Jones'. But I feel bad for both if them, I'd hate this world if I had their worldview.
32
25

let us help you out....

Depraved lifestyles lead to starving children.

And abused and neglected children.

Men fathering children they will not support, women getting pregnant by men who will not parent the children they spawn.

Have you read Danny's "Every Child Deserves..."?

(It should be renamed: "Every Child Deserves A MARRIED Mother and Father")

Heartbreaking.

The common thread?

Children being raised outside Traditional Heterosexual Marriage.

If you still don't get it let us know and we will break in down simpler...
33
252

And Murphy Brown?

The frightened doomed women Saint Kimmy was complaining about are the inevitable result of the Liberal glamorization of single motherhood in the 80s.
Them and their truly hopeless children.

Glee?
Look 320 years into the future and you will see it's victims....
34
Who the fuck is this "Gullom" you keep referring to?
35
33

look "20" years into the future.....

36
what a brave crew of hobbits we seem to have today....
37
@32. Oh. I get it. You're deeply concerned about the welfare of children.

Can I therefore go ahead and sign you up as a supporter of comprehensive sex education, making contraception available as widely as possible, and funding for social welfare programs, including early childhood education? Given that all of these things have been shown to substantially improve the lives of children? Or are you only concerned that people other than yourself are engaging in sexual behavior? My personal guess: ever since that unfortunate incident in 10th grade when you realized the homecoming queen was more interested in hanging out with her boyfriend than coming to your bible study, you've been loudly proclaiming how all things sex-related are the devil's work. Am I close? Because its time to put that behind you. One more thing, by the way: people have been having sex outside of marriage since before the dawn of marriage. And as much as I am sure you would love to go back to the days when we could stone them to death for it, it's not happening.
38
I just can't believe it took America this long to send them packing.
39
@15: Well put. That was going to be my point, but with considerably more ranting and cursing. I commend you in your brevity.
40
@33 dude, you're spending time here with us you should really be using to get your bunker ready. Again, not that we're not grateful, but those ammunition boxes and canned goods aren't going to stack themselves. Don't forget water filtration and gasoline for the generator, and lots of penicillin (I'm guessing you don't trust vaccines.)
41
@15 yeah, that was awesome. Thanks.
42
As a Medicare card-carrying white Christian male member of the 1% who has never voted for a Republican, I am elated. (Except for the continuation of Boehner and his fellow House assholes.) The problem with Evangelical Christians and the Pope is that they have never read the Gospels. They read Leviticus and the doctored letter of Paul.
43
Oh my God. I will now read ALL anonymous comments in Gollum's voice. Thanks, guys. (But be proper nerds - spell it right!)
44
Troll, I guarantee that I pay more taxes than you. Do you even pay federal income taxes? I also give far more to charity than you. When was the last time you did anything to help anyone else? People are realizing the truth that gay people aren't a threat to them. Your fear mongering, hysteria, and doom talk doesn't work anymore.
45
I'm kind of wishing the Righties WOULD all just retreat to their bunkers in anticipation of the coming Apocalypse. It would really be the best place for them.

And I for one would look forward to that glorious day four or five years from now, when their canned goods run out or they just get cabin-fever from having had nothing better to do all that time than read their Bible and re-count their unused rounds of ammo for the umpteenth time. We'll all grin knowingly at their expressions of slack-jawed incredulity when they see that not only hasn't civilization become nearly as depraved as they predicted, but that in fact, things will probably be even better, what with the rest of us having been able to move society forward a few steps without constantly stumbling over their superstitious, self-righteous contrariness.
46
Oh yeah, that's the good stuff I was craving!
47
Thank you for commenting on my comment (15)! I had to edit it three times to get the rage out, to get the extra rage-y words out, and to figure out what I wanted to say.
48
I dunno, this was pretty close election. They lost, but they didn't lose big. I wouldn't be celebrating their demise just yet.
49
Alleged, do you even lift?
50
Where is Gay Dude for Romneybot 2.0? Best troll ever!

Wonder what the Christian Right's strategy will be in 2016. They cannot change since from their viewpoint, the Bible never changes and their interpretation of the Bible = homophobia, sexism, racism, etc. They're stuck.

51
48
oh, don't spoil their fun.
it won't last.
Obama won but with less votes than last time, a first in modern history for a president getting a second term.
and the party will be over soon.
the fiscal cliff is a big boy dilemma and obama has yet to pull a big boy move in four years.
stay tuned.....
52
44
Bob, Obama is so proud of you!
Please post your 1040 so we can all admire it.
Unfortunately, your best is not enough....
For every hard earned dollar you send to Obama he spends $1.72.
So you are going to have to up your game and pay MORE taxes.
Don't be a slouch, either.
Sandra Fluke is running out of birth control pills even as we type.......

(btw have you gotten your AIDS test yet? you know, 41% of the homosexuals in Baltimore have HIV. but now that we think of it, that is 41% of the sexually active homosexuals so you probably are safe.....)
53
37

oh no darling, you still don't get it....

Functional Families (aka Traditional Heterosexual Marriage) raise their kids without hitting the taxpayer up for a ton of Social Welfare Programs.
That is the whole point, actually.

And the Troll has always advocated Comprehensive Sex Ed.
Which of course includes teaching kids that abstinence is the safest way to avoid pregnancy and STDs (at least according to the CDC it is...)

And society really wouldn't care about people have extramarital sex, if only they weren't so fucking bad at it; getting pregnant and having kids they can't afford. And getting AIDS and bitching for the government to cure them. Yeah, we're looking at you, homosexuals.

And as for "Things have been shown to substantially improve the lives of children"?
Let's have Traditional Heterosexual Marriage for $50, Alex.....

.

Now please read and ponder these posts carefully before you comment again.

We are happy to explain it as many times as it takes but the other kids will start wondering if you are a little dense if you keep asking stupid questions.
54
40

you are so right.

but actually we spent the day stacking and sorting and taking a break for a little posting on slog is therapeutic.

in the Real World we never run into any people with the values the typical slogger holds.

were it not for our time here we would not appreciate how near the end really is....
55
@3 It's not just the "religiously unaffiliated" population that's growing. The "religiously affiliated with loving, inclusive non-authoritarian denominations" population is growing as well. Of course, the liberal "quietist"/Hicksite branch of the Religious Society of Friends that I find myself in is so tiny that we could grow 50% a year and still be tiny for the foreseeable future. MCC is another nice place, even bigger, and growing. Many liberal Christian denominations exist, although they don't get as much press as the noisy conservatives. There's reform Judaism, and Eastern mysticism offers even more choices.

You can be spiritual, crave a community to be spiritual in, even find one, and not have to be under the thumb of some crazy, misogynist, xenophobic, sexophobic, batshit religion. Not every religion is Western, patriarchal, or relies on a charismatic leader. Atheism is a very legitimate antidote, but so are some of the congregational alternatives. There are choices, and people are starting to find them.

Patriarchy is on the wane.
56
55

What?!

Don't you find Danny's cult here on Slog satisfying?

A guru to teach you about new sexual mores?

To tell you it's OK to commit adultery or have a three-way?

And writing in to ask Danny if it is OK to dump or marry or cheat on our beloved? Rev Moon wishes his followers were so devoted...

You and all the other credulous fanboys and faghags googooing and gagaing over every little tidbit of his personal life Danny drips out?

And reverently revering the Blessed Mother Judy every year?
(do you make the Sacramental little Turd Cookies? It's part of the observance...)

Next to Danny's Cult those wimpy liberal xtian sects are just, well, wimpy.....

and the best part is we don't have to call it a Patriarchy 'cause Danny is, well, you know....
57
@48 No, they did lose big. It wasn't a close election. The popular vote was decidedly for Obama. Add to that the down-ticket wins, Warren, Grayson, plus the ballot measures of gay marriage & cannabis, that's a HUGE win, win, win.

And BTW, doesn't it feel great to be part of *one* state that voted for BOTH gay marriage & cannabis legalization? I feel proud of my fellow Washingtonians.
58
57

Fat, Perverted and Stoned is no way to go through life, son.
59
@54 This entire thread & Dan's post is *precisely* about how near the end really is... For you. Since you feel that you are the entire world, it's understood that you think the world will end, when really it's just your own small-minded brand of insanity & delusion.

Perhaps the Mayans were off by a month. And maybe they didn't mean "the whole world," just the folks who act like the world belongs to them & them alone. For that I say, Go Mayans!
61
@59 - This has nothing to so with anything, but I just realized your avatar is from Singing in the Rain, my all time favorite movie. I generally respect your comments, but your avatar alone makes you OK in my book.

Now I'll actually read through the thread before commenting for real.It's way more interesting a topic than the homework I'm supposed to be doing.
62
59

Have you seen Greece?
The riots?
Nasty stuff.
When the moocher Class gets an empty titty they get testy quick.

Fast forward to the USA.
Taking it to the 'hood.
Remember the Rodney King verdict?

When Obama can no longer afford to pacify the mob
with Bread and Circus it will get ugly.
In the cities.

Where do you live?
63
@53, you really are stuck in a time warp, then. Do you realize how long it's been since there were $50 clues on Jeopardy! ?
64
63

those are a shout out to Junior
65
I'm in seminary now, in one of those progressive, non-authoritarian, open, and accepting denominations @55 was talking about. One of my assignments this week in my Pentateuch class was about false prophets, and how Israel was told to recognize them and how we should recognize them today.

Now, the people in this class run the gamut from Catholic to Unitarian Universalist, with most of us somewhere in between (ELCA Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian). To a one, every single person in the class said that anyone who preaches a gospel of hatred (such an oxymoron) or exclusivity, or puts limits on God's love is a false prophet.

The religious right is becoming less and less relevant. And while they realize that they are, they have no idea why. That makes me sad.
66
65

Who is a True Prophet today?
67
65

Does God love Sin?
68
65

Danny's gloating hatred of conservatives,
what does that make him?

How about his advocacy of adultery?

What do the enlightened folk in the class think about gloating hatred and adultery?
69
We know the trolls don't really go away. They may promise to "expire" (Gay Dude) or they may just stop posting without notice, but they always stick around as non-participating readers.

So it's charming that our first-person-plural anonymous troll with the literary pretensions has decided to keep posting. You know he just loves hanging around with us sinners. (Who could blame him?) I'm okay with feeding him just for the entertainment value he provides, although he was wittier when there was a chance Romney would win. Now he just sounds like a boring scold. But who knows? Maybe he's just having an off day.

For sure, though, the glory days of his ilk are on a long term deferral. The Republicans have lost the "family values" battle and it looks like they may have lost the anti-immigrant battle. This doesn't mean liberals have permanently vanquished the dragon, though. Remember that racism, sexism, fear, and ignorance are always present. They just reassert themselves in different form.
70
65

To a one?

Amazing.

When the Blind lead the Blind everyone ends up in the ditch....
71
I wasn't sure, but I'm now convinced the Gollum anon troll is a paranoid schizophrenic or some type of schizoid personality disorder. It's the enraged word-salad.
72
@67: sin is an opinion, not a fact.
73
@ anons at 66 and 67. I can tell you that a true prophet doesn't preach hate. And I can tell you that a true prophet doesn't value the rights of one person or one group of people above all others.

@67 - Does God love sin? Of course not. But keep in mind that the definition of what is sinful changes dramatically over time and across different cultures. If we were living at the time that Deuteronomy was written, about the 6th century BCE, an engaged woman who was raped would be stoned if no one heard her call for help. An unengaged woman who was raped would be forced to marry her attacker. We'd also be talking about the proper way to treat our slaves, and anyone who didn't have a railing built around their roof would be a sinner. And if a woman kicked a man in the balls in trying to defend her husband, say goodbye to her foot (Deuteronomy says grabbed his testicles, and that her hand would be cut off, but I think they are analogous).

The fact of the matter is that the laws in the Bible were being revised even as they were being written to account for changes in society. I have to believe that God would want us to change our interpretation of the laws to fit what we now know to be scientifically, empirically true, including that evolution is a reality and that homosexuality is a natural, genetic trait.
74
@68 - I don't think name calling is productive on either side, and I have called out some of my liberal friends for calling conservatives some truly awful things. If I had to express one frustration with Dan and with The Stranger in general, that would be it. The name calling is juvenile and doesn't help make a point.
75
@51: "obama has yet to pull a big boy move in four years."
Oddly enough, Osama bin Laden is sleeping with the fishes. I wonder whose idea that was?
76
Awesome post Dan. Lovely videos !

@ Kim in Portland - hopefuly, some day, single American mothers will be able to live the way single European mothers do : with one job and welfare help for their kids.

In France, every family receives governement money for their kids, no matter how rich they are - it only depends on the number of kids. Because raising kids is good for the future and should be encouraged. This small amount may be nothing for rich families, but for poor families, it makes a huge difference. Receiving family welfare is not shameful here - everybody does. And then if you're poor you receive a bit more welfare, and you pay less taxes, or you don't pay any. All in all you and your kids survive with one job.

Taxes pay for that. They are heavy for rich people and less so for middle class and poor people. That is morally sound - if you have much more money than the bare necessity, taxes make you invest in the future generations and the common good. If you're a big boss and sell stuff, you need poor people around you to be able to afford your stuff or else you won't sell anything... Greed only dries up the economy.

Two questions though : minimal wage should ensure a full-time job gets you enough money to afford a place and enough to eat ; doesn't it in America ?
And how can people work 3 jobs ? Do you mean part-time jobs - because otherwise when do they find time to eat, sleep, and raise their kids ?
79
73

Who is a true Prophet today?

Has "god" decided that Adultery is OK?

When did "he/she/it" say that?

If "god" wants you to change the definition of sin as you see fit why do you need a god?

Moses claimed that god spoke to him.

Where is your modern prophet who tells you that god has changed the definition of sin?

We appreciate your sentiments @74 and share them.
Danny evidently does not realize that he is just as bigoted and hate filled as the baptist fundamentalists he loves to hate. The targets of his hate differ but the underlying cancer is the same.

(we think if you reread Deuteronomy it may only call for the woman to be stoned if help was within earshot but she did not call for help....)
80
Sheryl- good luck with seminary! I am in an accepting mainline church in Seattle, with theretired pastor, who has lived with his male partner for 30 years! R-74 brought a lot of progressive churches"out of the closet" to break the stereotype that religion=anti-gay, anti-women etc. Fewer are listening to the religious bullies, thank God!
81
@76 Regarding the minimum wage, sadly, no. At one time (i.e. before Reagan), working 40 hours a week at minimum wage would afford a person enough money to pay rent on a crappy apartment in a major city, to buy food for two adults and perhaps one child, and to go to the movies once every week or two. Since then, things have shifted remarkably. The concentration of wealth in the finance sector drove up housing costs several times more than inflation and the government, under pressure from business interests that wanted cheap labor, stopped considering the minimum wage as something that should support a family, or even a single adult. It's now just some sort of entry wage for people without responsibilities who are expected to (somehow) move up to better jobs, and too many of them just can't. It's beyond shameful. It's a disgrace.

Additionally, the growing disparity of income has created a real class separation. The cities became desirable again for college-educated annual salary earners, and their demand essentially priced hourly minimum-wage-earners out of the urban housing market. While the suburbs might be less expensive in some places, few good jobs are available there, and the added transportation cost to where the jobs are just increases the nightmare.
82
52, Troll, I'm healthier than you'll ever be, my fat friend, who's fingers and keyboard are stained with the electric orange of cheese product flavored fried corn meal snack foods.
83
@76 France also suffers from chronically weak economic growth, high unemployment, and low workforce participation. The welfare state does a lot to alleviate the suffering of the have-nots, but the French people pay a substantial price for it in the form of lost opportunity.
84
@ sissoucat,

Brooklyn Reader is correct. Three minimum wage jobs are required. No weekends, very little sleep, and meals are often consumed while in transition or skipped all together. Lastly, being told that your rent will rise if Obama is elected or jobs will be cut if Obama is elected, et. cetera made things worse. So I can see why they believe they are betrayed. I am not sure they understand that voters like me are happy to pay taxes and have them raised. That we are happy to advocate for raising the minimum wage. Happy to pay higher premiums so that everyone can have health coverage, because initially affordable health care will cost more inorder to expand it over the uninsured. We're happy to provide safety nets. We're happy to do our civic duty.
85
@77: Oh, I see. You are so privy to the inner workings of our nation's leaders that you know who did what with regard to the killing of Osama bin Laden. I guess I can't argue with those credentials.
Also, there hasn't been an attack on US soil of the sort you speak of during Obama's tenure.
86
Poor, poor troll.e knows what he knows, so don't confuse him with the facts.
87
The minimum wage was never intended to be enough to support a family on.

It is what high school kids get paid to flip hamburgers.

If you have accumulated a couple of kids but no education/skills that qualify you for a job paying actual wages you (but more so, your kids...) are screwed.

Poor lifestyle choices carry consequences.

88
82

oooohh...

please post some beefcake photos along with that 1040,
you healthy hunk, you.....
90
@87 Stupid troll. By "never," of course you mean in your extremely limited experience and inability to look things up and correlate facts.

In the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, a minimum-wage job was enough that one worker could support a small family. Very modestly, true, but no more modest than so many working class and even middle class families today who can barely survive on their own with two full-time workers and extra part-time jobs.

Have you ever heard the term "housewife?" This was a thing. There were working-class women who weren't required to work to support their families. They could stay home to care for their homes and children, have a social life with other housewives, or watch tv and wrestle with boredom, alcoholism and pills. So, it wasn't always ideal, and there wasn't as much opportunity if they wanted to work, but they didn't have to work for their families to survive. Towards the end of the 1980's, that choice was gone for a vast number of people. Someday, there will be a museum dedicated to them.
91
This is hilarious because of the clips at the end...otherwise it's just sad.
92
@89: Obama's said many times that he doesn't want to raise taxes on the middle class. His budget proposals have not included raising taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year. So...what makes you think he's going to?
I'm sensing a pattern here. Like Jon Stewart said, there seems to be a different Obama that only Republicans can see.
93
@83 Lost opportunities ? Losing the opportunity to starve is really important to me, sorry. We have less starving people than you do, and I don't find it an interesting opportunity to have to work 3 jobs in order to survive. Besides, good schools are what gives people opportunity - and although our conservatives are dead set on ruining our education system, it still holds water for now, and it's better than yours. So, what opportunities are lost ?

I don't understand "low workforce participation" : participation of whom in the workforce ? or participation of the workforce to what ? Could you find another formulation of your idea, it makes no sense to me written like that (I'm not a native speaker, obviously).

@Brooklyn Reader - do you know what happened to the minimal wage ? Was it Reagan who let it slide into nothing, or did it happen before ? Do you think there could be a momentum behind raising it substantially, to the point where it was before Reagan, or will the rich people yell that it's communism ?

@Kim in Portland - I understand what you're saying. Many people complain about taxes ; but I was proud of paying taxes when I earned more money, because I felt I was contributing to society, and this way I knew I was not among the poorest. Nowadays, huh, I don't earn that much - I can't work full time because of ill-health - and it's a bit depressing not to pay income taxes. I'm still able to house and feed myself and the kids though...

Who cares for the kids when the single mother works 3 jobs ?
94
88, Obese troll, I rode my bike 30 miles today. When is the last time you pried your fat ass off of the sofa, and got some exercise? You're unhealthy, and sad.
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90

"The first attempt at establishing a national minimum wage came in 1933, when a $0.25 per hour standard was set as part of the National Industrial Recovery Act. However, in the 1935 court case Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States (295 U.S. 495), the United States Supreme Court declared the act unconstitutional, and the minimum wage was abolished.
The minimum wage was re-established in the United States in 1938 (pursuant to the Fair Labor Standards Act), once again at $0.25 per hour ($3.77 in 2009 dollars).
The minimum wage had its highest purchasing value ever in 1968, when it was $1.60 per hour ($9.86 in 2010 dollars). "

So when it started it paid four bucks an hour (in current terms)
What kind of family does that support, a family of gerbils?

At its height it paid $10 an hour, not a lot higher than today; and again, what size family can live on $400 a week (before taxes....)?
MicroMidgets?

Perhaps 'minimum' doesn't mean what you think it does....

.

Housewives who stayed at home were never married to men who made minimum wage.
You need to go back and rewatch those old Leave It To Beaver episodes.....

96
The "traditional" nuclear family is less than 100 years old. Traditonally, families lived in larger groups that included grandparents, children and sometimes aunts, uncles, our cousins. If you want to fight for "traditional" families, fight for that. Larger families would be a great source of social stability. Nuclear families are much more vulnerable to changing economic times and life's unexpected troubles.

If you want to fight for traditional families, fight for that. Don't impose or assume some historically arbitrary --and only very recent-- definition of family.

Nuclear families are like little atomic particles, --bounced around harder and faster than larger, more solid particles--, when conditions get hotter.
97
@Sissoucat: Reagan basically demonized people on welfare, pretty much inventing the "welfare queen" and running on it- the welfare queen being a person who is on welfare because she's too lazy to work and gets enough money from welfare to have a better lifestyle than she deserves.

Reagan's career was basically about convincing people that our social programs actually support lazy, ungrateful freeloaders and not people who are legitimately in need. He did it with California universities, and he did it again with welfare.

The problem since, however, is that minimum wage can only be raised when Congress votes for a raise. If it automatically went up like Social Security, it might still be a problem, but not anything like what it is now. If either the House or the Senate is majority Republican, it's probably not going to get raised.

As for how people work 2-3 jobs: people work 3 sixteen hour days and 4 eight-hour ones. Maybe they do two full-time jobs, maybe they do one full-time and two part-time. As for childcare, they either have a relative they can leave the child with (like the kid's grandparents), or one of those jobs is entirely to pay for the childcare during the other one and they just leave the kid alone to sleep at night.
98
@95: The housing prices way outpaced everything else since 1968, and on top of that, public transportation was cheaper and easier to use then.
99
@93 It was Reagan. Under him, the annual inflation-related cost of living increases were removed from the minimum wage. (It was first frozen for several years, then later incremented some small fraction of inflation, irregularly.) That was also the period when our inflation rate ballooned. The "Conservative" philosophy was that automatic raises in the minimum wage was somehow driving inflation. It wasn't.

This was also the period when the Republicans/Conservatives started their war on labor unions. In a completely Orwellian vein, they introduced so-called "Right To Work" laws in many states. Of course, this was the "right to work" in shitty conditions for low pay without a union representative.
100
@ Sissoucat,

In addition to what Alguna Rubia (#97), the children are often "latch key". The come home to an empty house. The eldest frequently steps into the parental role for the younger ones as homework help, chef, and babysitter until old enough to start working too.

I'm grateful to read that you are able to house and feed your kids. I'm sorry that your health is ill. Very sorry.
101
@alguna_rubia, Brooklyn Reader and Kim in Portland

Wow. Reagan was not liked in France at the time (I was a child) but now I undestand why. That guy was a butcher. I hope Obama or the next democrats will some day be able to fix that issue. You'd have a whole lot less criminality if people were not starving or desperate...

In my book what you're describing is slavery. Working full-time and not being able to feed and decently house oneself and one child ? It's slavery. How can those kids go on, learn and make it better for themselves, if their parents are constantly away ? 16-hours work days in the 21st century ? And Romney called them lazy and uninterested in earning more ? What, you would have gotten a national strike in France for such verbal abuse ! But your labor unions can't organize one now, I guess... I hope it really gets better for you, because truly, what you describe is just mind-blowing. It's 3rd-world-countries poverty... and we all know how that ends : in terrorism.

As for my health, thanks for your kind concern, Kim. I've had a serious depression but it's under control now - being overworked could bring it back though. And a full-time job with 3 young kids on my own would overwork me, now - I still need more time, for everything, than I ever did before. As it is, we're poor but I'm here and healthier than I would be, working and earning twice as much. I exercised bad judgement by getting married to an abuser and now I'm poor and slow but we're free. It's all what matters, really. Don't be sorry about it. I'm not.
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101

ah cheri, your concern is touching....

actually crime rates are down.

perhaps Americans are not as barbaric as the French.
and terrorism?
mon dieu! never!

we find that if the Liberals are sufficiently aggressive about killing their spawn the crime rate tends to trend down.
a win-win if there ever was one...
103
92

Good question, Junior.

Is Obama a Liar or is he Incompetent and Stupid?

His taxes on the "Rich" won't put a dent in the deficit.

We assume someone has told him that.

We assume he is planning to tax the Productive Middle Class.

Because, like all successful thieves, he knows where the money really is.

So we vote for Liar.

What about you, Junior?

Do you vote for Stupid?

Do you think Obama really thinks he can tax the "Rich" to get us out of the mess?

You're always telling us what a bright boy you are;
here's some useful busy work for you.
Take Obama's proposed tax on the "Rich".
Figure how much it will raise.
Tell us what percentage of
the Federal Government's annual expenditures that will be.

Report back.

Slog wants to know-

Obama: Liar or Idiot?.....
104
Here I see a little glimmer of hope.

The nameless troll is engaging in discussions in which, while still relying heavily on juvenile taunts, he's deploying a few facts and arguments.

I disagree with you on most of the substance, sir, but I am glad you're finally at least trying to do some actual debating instead of namecalling. Sadly, I don't think it would have happened without the ass-kicking conservatives got at the ballot box.

Of course, you're only debating the economic issues. With the social policy, you are basically still driven by your gut reaction of "ewwww... sluts and gays!" You start with the premise that gay marriage is not real marriage, and so you cannot see the true conservative arguments for encouraging people - gay or straight - to form committed lifelong relationships. Based on what your writing, I don't think it's possible for you to change your mind, but that's OK. Old dogs, new tricks, and all that. Fortunately, society is moving beyond your views. In a few decades, people will wonder what the fuss was all about, and people like you will either have forgotten that they ever opposed equal rights for all, or will only exist on the lunatic fringe, like white supremacists now.