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Wednesday, November 14, 2012

Sl Letter of the Day: After-the-Fact Cuckold Denial

Posted by on Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 11:42 AM

I'm on hiatus while working on a manuscript for a new book. In the meantime, please enjoy these classic Savage Love letters pulled from previous columns. I will be back when the book is finished. —Dan

Originally published December 7, 2006:

My boyfriend and I are currently doing the long-distance thing, as I'm finishing up some schooling. About two months ago during some dirty phone talk he said he'd been masturbating while thinking about me fucking another man while he watches.

This was unexpected. In the past, I screwed around on boyfriends. He knows this, but I thought he also understood that I only want to be with him and that I am not interested in additional male partners. He brings this scenario up whenever we're having phone sex or we're together and he's aroused. When he's not hard, he says that the thought of my being with another guy is gut wrenching and awful, but when he is aroused, he tells me that he really wants me to do this.

I'm confused. Previously, partners have brought up unexpected stuff and I've rolled with it (bondage, strap-ons), but they were able to talk about it later—what it was about, why it was a turn-on. My current man gets upset when I try to talk about it outside of sex. Are you familiar with this sort of drastic, disgusted, after-the-fact denial?

Unsure About The Cuckold Thing

My response after the jump...

Yeah, UATCT, I'm familiar with drastic, disgusted, after-the-fact denial. When I first came out—back before I knew better—I fucked a handful of "straight" guys. And let me tell you, UATCT, the shit that comes out of the mouths of closet cases just before and all during sex will turn your hair white and/or make your dick hard. No one begs to be fucked quite as sincerely, graphically, or desperately as some frat boy who hasn't yet reconciled himself to being gay.

But, oh, the moment a closet case gets what he came for—the moment he comes—his tone changes dramatically. Not only does he stop begging to be fucked, he will deny he ever wanted to be fucked in the first place. The truly messed up ones would even deny that they had been fucked at all, never mind the evidence all over their abs. And any attempts to address their absurd denials—"What do you mean you've never been fucked? My cock is still in your ass..."—were a waste of breath.

Like those "straight" frat boys I fucked back at the University of Illinois, your boyfriend wants it. He wants you to fuck around with another guy, preferably in front of him. But he doesn't wanna want it and wishes it would go away. And it does go away, just like magic, immediately after he comes. Unfortunately, it comes roaring back as soon as he's horny again.

Where did his cuckold fetish come from? Like many fetishes, his cuckold thing is most likely a subconscious, erotic response to a sexually charged fear. While most of us learn to live with and occasionally conquer our fears without eroticizing them, a number of us respond to sexual fears or traumas by incorporating them into our erotic imaginations. Think of women—hip, together, progressive, feminist women—who act out rape fantasies; think of homos—hip, together, out homos—who dress up like soldiers, cops, firemen, and other stereotypically violent homophobes.

Women fear rape, yet some develop a fetish for it. Gay men fear violent homophobes, yet some dress up like violent homophobes. And what do many straight men fear? Being cheated on, of course, and dealing with that particular brand of sexual humiliation. Your boyfriend has, consciously or subconsciously, eroticized his fears around your cheating on him—and that's not an entirely irrational fear, UATCT, considering your past.

Cuckolding may seem like some sort of brand-new fetish, but it's not. But we are hearing more about it now thanks to the internet. For while straight women have long been free to share their rape fantasies with their male partners, and gay men can share their homophobe fantasies with each other, married straight men into cuckolding have a harder time of it. A rape fantasy, however charged, or a homophobe fantasy, however comical, is easy to realize. ("Hold me down." "Wear this uniform.") A cuckold fantasy, on the other hand, is more complicated. Not only does the wannabe cuckold have to talk his partner into it, he also has to find a willing third. It wasn't until sites like www.cuckoldplace.com and www.adultcommunitiesonline.com/ourhotwives (now defunct) came along that cuckold fetishists—or "cucks," as some insist on calling themselves—were able to create a community of sorts, put a name to their desires, and swap tips on broaching the subject with their wives and girlfriends.

 

Comments (16) RSS

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1
if you are on hiatus why do you keep posting shit all day long?
Posted by 'haitus' may not mean what you think it does on November 14, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Rotten666 2
Firemen are violent homophobes?
Posted by Rotten666 on November 14, 2012 at 12:14 PM
3
I don't have any shame or self-loathing about my own personal humiliating fetish, but boy does the desire fade away after an orgasm; like turning off a lightswitch! It's just very distasteful to me after the fact. So maybe a big chunk of his mindset-switching would occur EVEN IF he were actually prety comfortable and confident with the idea.
Posted by Tiptoes on November 14, 2012 at 12:38 PM
4
When you try to talk to him about it outside of sex, you are potentially turning it from fantasy to reality. It's not like if he mentions it in the context of hot pillow talk while he's in the middle of banging you, you are going to hop out of bed, open the closet door, bring out another guy and kick him off the mattress. You start bringing it up at lunch one day, he is going to get the idea that you are ACTUALLY planning on cheating on him and rubbing his nose in it.

You do get that there is a difference between fantasy and real life? And that what is hot to imagine may indeed be emotionally devastating to live through?
Posted by avast2006 on November 14, 2012 at 12:49 PM
horatiocain 5
@2 they dislike anything flaming
Posted by horatiocain http://jerkcity.com on November 14, 2012 at 1:28 PM
mr. herriman 6
thanks for that, @5
Posted by mr. herriman on November 14, 2012 at 1:49 PM
secretagent 7
What is confusing? FANTASY. Where you imagine stuff that turns you on that isn't actually going to happen. I really don't want to be called a slut in real life, and there's nothing to really discuss about it.

If you don't want to do it, which seems clear from your "I thought he understood I don't want additional male partners" statement, and he has made clear that he finds it "gut-wrenching" to talk about and doesn't want to do it in real life, why do you insist? What exactly do you want to discuss about this?

One of the best thing about (most) men is that you don't have to talk about everything, and there doesn't need to be a reason behind everything. It turns him on. Rad. Dirty talk is awesome.
Posted by secretagent on November 14, 2012 at 2:20 PM
8
I think #4 (avast2006) has it.
If you're in this situation the contradictions and mixed messages can be confusing, especially if you would like to act on the desire that gets confessed when someone is aroused.

I once had a boyfriend who was fairly insecure and jealous, but whose favorite fantasy to explore through *talk* during sex was the "hot wife" kind (like cuckolding, but without the shame or humiliation-of-the-primary-male factor. I would have loved to have been able to participate in a "center of attention" threesome or to have sex with someone else while my bf watched or to have sex with someone else and come back and tell my bf all about it and turn him on.

But given how uncomfortable he found the idea of sharing me with someone else when he wasn't aroused, I realized it was best to limit "hot wife" scenarios to being the stuff of verbal play.

Posted by nocutename on November 14, 2012 at 2:21 PM
9
> A cuckold fantasy, on the other hand, is more complicated. Not only does the wannabe cuckold have to talk his partner into it, he also has to find a willing third.

Not really. As avast suggests, it should stay at the level of fantasy until the guy is able to advocate for it when he's not feeling horny.

But it's pretty easy to talk through the fantasy. If you think he might really worry about your activities, then tell him ahead of time that it's just fantasy. And give him a safeword to say (such as "safeword" or just "stop!" in case you accidentally say something which makes him feel icky instead of aroused.) Then when you're having sex (by phone or otherwise) tell him all about your escapades with the cable guy or the cute fellow who sits behind you in class. No messy third parties with feelings to consider; just your imagination and your partner's very hard cock.
Posted by EricaP on November 14, 2012 at 2:29 PM
10
@4: I don't blame her for being weirded out that he won't talk about it at all when he's not horny. It doesn't even sound like they've had enough of a conversation for him to even say "Look, I like it in my head but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it if it really happened." If he can't even say that, I'd be pretty irritated, too. Just change this into another fetish: he keeps talking about getting his ass whipped during sex, and then won't talk about it when she brings it up. Maybe she wants to whip his ass and is frustrated by the fact that he's teasing her by talking about it without being able to talk about whether it'll be a reality or not. Or maybe she really doesn't want to whip his ass, and wants reassurance that it's never going to happen. Either way, she deserves an answer out of him. Maybe he's just too chicken to say that he actually DOES want to be cuckolded. Maybe it's just fantasy. Either way, I think she deserves to have him tell her when he's not horny.
Posted by alguna_rubia on November 15, 2012 at 12:09 AM
11
I learned something from reading this. Not that I hadn't thought about it before, but this discussion just made it click in a new way.
Posted by Prettybetsy on November 15, 2012 at 7:11 AM
Filmmaven 12
Why can't he just want to have this fantasy to get off? So what? It doesn't have to manifest itself and she can play along with verbal cues. He isn't asking her to go meet someone or even check it out on the internet - just to enhance his fantasy during sex.
Posted by Filmmaven http://www.etsy.com/shop/voodookingdesigns on November 15, 2012 at 9:22 AM
13
I have been highly confused for a long time about why I find it totally hot to imagine my boyfriend fucking, getting sucked by, or even jerking it to, another woman, but only when I'm horny. The rest of the time I find those ideas to be something in the range of "I'd rather not think about it" to "wow that would really hurt me." I had no idea this was a fetish that many people shared. This discussion has helped my understand my own sexuality more and feel a lot less confused and emotional. Thanks!
Posted by littleninja on November 15, 2012 at 9:38 AM
Aurora Erratic 14
"Cuck" is a singularly unpleasant word.
Posted by Aurora Erratic http://www.finemesspottery.com on November 15, 2012 at 12:12 PM
15
The answer to this question doesn't seem complete, Dan.

I have similar fantasies about my husband, and he about me. Both of us began the fantisizing because we both had fears of each other cheating. Fantasizing about it, and bringing it into our bedroom, actually made us able to talk about these fears and let us both feel wecould be more honest about our desires outside our marriage, which eventually became a fun little hot game to us.

All of this has deepened our relationship both inside and outside the bedroom. Inside the bedroom, we engage in our wildest fantasies (which started out as our wildest fears). Outside the bedroom, we love and trust one another, knowing that if we get turned on by someone else, we can go back into the bedroom and fuck our spouse and pretend whatever we want. Fantasizing about other partners, watching each other with other partners, switching or trading or whatever, helps to both keep things hot in our bedroom, and keeps us both satisfied so we don't go seeking things outside the bedroom.

But here's the end to the story: Having this game between us doesn't mean my husband wants to be a cuckold in real life though, or that I want to watch him fuck another woman in real life. What happens in our bedroom stays in our bedroom. It doesn't mean we're closet cuckolds however.
Posted by soldia on November 15, 2012 at 3:43 PM
16
@15, "Here's the end to the story: Having this game between us doesn't mean my husband wants to be a cuckold in real life though, or that I want to watch him fuck another woman in real life."

The end doesn't come when you announce the end -- unlike movies, life doesn't work that way. I'm glad the two of you have reached a happy point in your marriage. But be aware that the only constant in life is change. Five, ten, twenty years from now, things may look different to one or both of you.
Posted by EricaP on November 16, 2012 at 9:26 AM

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