Slog
News & ArtsThursday, November 15, 2012
International The IDF and Gaza
Posted by Charles Mudede on Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 7:58 AM
What the philosopher Nic Veroli has to say:
So, Israel is mobilizing reservists in light of a possible ground invasion of Gaza. Seeing as how that clearly wouldn't do anything for anyone, I wonder if that's not simply a way of wagging the dog—i.e. a response by the political right to the protests for social justice that have been occurring in Israel itself over the past months. If so, it wouldn't be surprising given the drift of Israel social policy over the last 30 years. One thing's for sure: there won't be any social justice for Israelis until there's justice for Palestinians.This, I think, is the heart of the matter. The oppression of the Palestinians is also the oppression of the progressive elements or potential in Israel's society. Indeed, one might convincingly argue that it has more to do with the latter than the former. It's like a man who beats his neighbor's wife to keep his own wife in check.
2
Or perhaps the more immediate reason is the steady stream of rockets fired from Gaza.
Don't get me wrong, Israel is all kinds of fucking wrong. But I think that thesis is more wishful thinking than reality.
Don't get me wrong, Israel is all kinds of fucking wrong. But I think that thesis is more wishful thinking than reality.
4
Here we go again. Until such time as NATO sends in ground troops to keep Israel away from Gaza and the West Bank (Which will never happen because Israel does not want the world to see what it is doing on a daily basis) this will be the same scene of the same play in the same theater for the next century. What a waste.
5
It's cynical, but I'd have an easier time believing the rockets were primary if the rockets caused more casualties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian…
The rockets seem more like a political tool that *both* governments use to wag their respective dogs with a criminal indifference to primary or retaliatory casualties.
The rockets seem more like a political tool that *both* governments use to wag their respective dogs with a criminal indifference to primary or retaliatory casualties.
6
The only reason the rockets don't cause more casualties is because of their inaccuracy, the ubiquity of shelters, a good alarm system, and the iron dome.
7
@3: Yeah, but if Israel had not illegally invaded, murdered and subjugated the Palestinian people (and continue to do so), there would be no rockets.
The invading army does not get to call "defense" when the subjugated fire back. The invading army is never on "defense."
I feel for the innocent slaughtered on both sides, but Israel does not get a free pass on what they do every day to the Palestinians.
I hear you say on here that critique of Israel that does not always also reference the atrocities committed by Palestine is by default anti-semitic. By that same token, would not critiques of Palestine without the acknowledgement of the atrocities committed by Israel anti-arabic, and just as bad?
The invading army does not get to call "defense" when the subjugated fire back. The invading army is never on "defense."
I feel for the innocent slaughtered on both sides, but Israel does not get a free pass on what they do every day to the Palestinians.
I hear you say on here that critique of Israel that does not always also reference the atrocities committed by Palestine is by default anti-semitic. By that same token, would not critiques of Palestine without the acknowledgement of the atrocities committed by Israel anti-arabic, and just as bad?
9
@6 - Exactly. Blare some klaxons, make everybody go underground, and you've got a perfect Two Minutes Hate followed by airstrikes. It's a perfect gift for hawks on both sides.
It's the only attribute of the rockets that could possibly be called "efficacious."
It's the only attribute of the rockets that could possibly be called "efficacious."
10
@7,
Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip seven years ago, in the face of major opposition from the country's right wing. Were Hamas not deliberately provoking Israel, there would be no new invasion.
And illegally invaded? Illegally occupied maybe, but war (which was not started by Israel, for the record) often has the unfortunate result of the victor occupying the losers' land.
It's too bad that the Palestinians chose Hamas to run Gaza. Had they made even the slightest attempt to coexist peacefully, perhaps the left wing in Israel could have successfully fought for withdrawal from the West Bank, but now who knows if that will ever happen.
Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip seven years ago, in the face of major opposition from the country's right wing. Were Hamas not deliberately provoking Israel, there would be no new invasion.
And illegally invaded? Illegally occupied maybe, but war (which was not started by Israel, for the record) often has the unfortunate result of the victor occupying the losers' land.
It's too bad that the Palestinians chose Hamas to run Gaza. Had they made even the slightest attempt to coexist peacefully, perhaps the left wing in Israel could have successfully fought for withdrawal from the West Bank, but now who knows if that will ever happen.
11
@7: The occupation of Gaza ended years ago, and pretending that it is still occupied is both intellectually dishonest and unhelpful at stopping the bloodshed. There hasn't been an Israeli occupation of Gaza since August of 2005.
The thought was that by leaving the Palestinians alone and letting them run the place, they might become less interested in pushing the Jews into the sea.
That didn't work out, rockets kept a flying from Gaza into Israel (have to prove that they're still fighting the good fight, regardless of it's effectiveness), and the IDF responded with Cast Lead in late 2008 to 2009 (about three weeks).
That didn't work out either, mostly because the Egypt - Gaza border is incredibly porous and Hamas can smuggle in small arms and small rockets easily.
Barring an actual reoccupation of Gaza by the IDF, the rockets will continue to fly as they have for years. They'll muddle through various low intensity wars for years, until both sides finally figure out that neither has both the means and the will to defeat the other.
The thought was that by leaving the Palestinians alone and letting them run the place, they might become less interested in pushing the Jews into the sea.
That didn't work out, rockets kept a flying from Gaza into Israel (have to prove that they're still fighting the good fight, regardless of it's effectiveness), and the IDF responded with Cast Lead in late 2008 to 2009 (about three weeks).
That didn't work out either, mostly because the Egypt - Gaza border is incredibly porous and Hamas can smuggle in small arms and small rockets easily.
Barring an actual reoccupation of Gaza by the IDF, the rockets will continue to fly as they have for years. They'll muddle through various low intensity wars for years, until both sides finally figure out that neither has both the means and the will to defeat the other.
12
@10, 11: You guys need to keep us with the news. I recommend the BBC, as they report the facts without having to worry about the influence Israel wields over the American media.
It is not just Gaza. There is a reason that basically only America thinks that Israel is not an illegal invading army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_set…
It is not just Gaza. There is a reason that basically only America thinks that Israel is not an illegal invading army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_set…
13
#11 sez "There hasn't been an Israeli occupation of Gaza since August of 2005."
Yet here is a high-ranking Israeli general that says the BLOCKADE of Gaza by Israel should end. [Blockading the Gazans is easier for the Israelis than occupying. But almost as deadly.]
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de…
Yet here is a high-ranking Israeli general that says the BLOCKADE of Gaza by Israel should end. [Blockading the Gazans is easier for the Israelis than occupying. But almost as deadly.]
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de…
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
It's Spring! Who's Ready for Street Harassment? by Cienna Madrid
-
New Gun Enthusiast... by Dan Savage
-
America Doesn't Care About Black People by Charles Mudede
-
SL Letter of the Day: Gonna Boil My Laptop After Answering This One by Dan Savage
-
All You Motherfuckers Complaining That aPodments Are Too Small at 200 Square Feet by Dominic Holden
-
Bigot Florist Files Countersuit by Dominic Holden
-
Slog Super Poll: Who Should Be Mayor? by Dominic Holden
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!) by Dan Savage
-
America's Epidemic of Toddler-on-Toddler Gun Violence Continues by Goldy
-
Tim Burgess Quits the Mayor's Race by Dominic Holden
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (13) RSS