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News & ArtsMonday, November 19, 2012
Politics / Money Welfare State
Posted by Goldy on Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 8:21 AM
- Total dollars each county receives from the state for each dollar it sends to the state in taxes.
As Dan points out below, despite all their whining about makers and takers, it's the red states who get back more in federal money than they pay in federal taxes, while we here in the blue states pick up the tab. But just a reminder that the same dynamic is true between red counties and blue counties here in Washington State:
King County, with roughly 29 percent of the state population, produced 42 percent of state tax revenues, yet it received back less than 26 percent of state benefits. That's a return of only 62 cents on the dollar for our state's Democratic stronghold.
Compare that to the generous $3.16 return on each dollar enjoyed by taxpayers in hard Republican Ferry County in deep northeastern Washington. All in all, only six counties qualified as "net donors" to the rest of the state—San Juan, King, Skagit, Kittitas, Whatcom, and Snohomish—while the remaining 33 counties enjoyed an average return on investment of over $1.40 on every tax dollar sent to Olympia.
What is the real world impact of this sort of unappreciated redistribution of wealth? If King County's school districts were funded proportionate to what King County taxpayers put into state coffers, our schools would receive an additional one billion dollars a year from the state. Local readers should remember this the next time our local newspaper advocates for a school levy swap that would shift even more of the burden of state K-12 funding onto the shoulders of King County homeowners, while providing zero additional dollars for own schools.
1
Thank you for clearly laying this out to readers, Goldy. This is great information that I have posted to the Seattle Schools Community Forum blog to allow our readers (many who are parents and educators) to gain greater understanding of this issue. Thank you for sticking with it.
3
I bet you could get the voters in those counties marked in red to vote for an Eyman-like statewide initiative requiring that a county receive no more in benefits than it pays in tax revenue.
4
quick excuse for ferry county: it hosts half the colville reservation, along with okanagan county.
6
@5 that's not the issue, the issue is it is the sections of the state recieving the most while giving the least that are standing in the way of fixing our budget by preventing a discussion which involves revenue.
7
Guess which states have Federal Grants making up 50% of state revenues?
Fiscal Federalism by the Numbers
http://www.pewstates.org/research/data-v…
Fiscal Federalism by the Numbers
http://www.pewstates.org/research/data-v…
8
Assuming Wikipedia is right, the counties getting the least for their tax dollars seem to be the wealthiest, and the ones getting the most seem to be the poorest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_…
Isn't that the sort of redistribution The Stranger is typically in favor of? Or is it only OK when the redistribution is from wealthy Republicans to poor Democrats?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_…
Isn't that the sort of redistribution The Stranger is typically in favor of? Or is it only OK when the redistribution is from wealthy Republicans to poor Democrats?
10
@8, to mimic @6 and answer your question, the point of this is NOT whether the money should be redistributed; most people in blue counties, specifically King County understand that our tax dollars are being sent to other counties to help pay for education, social services, and the infrastructure necessary for our state to function as a WHOLE. The issue is that the red counties continue to elect state representatives and senators who now have a minority voting power. A lower population, a lower tax burden, fewer chances at economic fairness without redistributed funds; yet they are electing officials who get 1.5 votes when it comes to increasing tax revenues while we get officials who get .66 votes; (I hate typing in all caps, but I don't want to break slog while opening/closing bold, so here you go) WE WANT TO RAISE TAXES AND REVENUES TO FIX OUR STATE AND WE ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM THEM!!!
11
@8: it's not the re-distribution per se, it's what @6 said. conservative voters do not vote based on the way things are, they vote on the way they wish things were.
12
@8 You're missing the point. Nobody here is arguing that this isn't the way it should be - that the wealthier counties help out the poorer. The problem is the red counties' inability to connect the dots and see that they more often than not vote against their own interests.
Along the lines of @3, I think an initiative mandating that tax revenue be spent in the county in which it was raised would get these rural voters to realize just how much they need us (that, or Seattle would end up with some of the best schools in the country). Ironically, they would be digging their own grave in voting for it.
Along the lines of @3, I think an initiative mandating that tax revenue be spent in the county in which it was raised would get these rural voters to realize just how much they need us (that, or Seattle would end up with some of the best schools in the country). Ironically, they would be digging their own grave in voting for it.
13
Agreed, @11...I am happy to spread the wealth, so to speak, but I just want our conservative neighbors to know that the wealth is being spread in their direction, and not the other way around.
14
This is the same sad ex girlfriend liberal drawl that does nothing, awwww they vote against themselves, if they could only see all these charts and facts they would understand!!
no, they wouldn't its all limo liberal lies to them, and nothing will change their votes or outlook until they were actually cut off, which goes against classic distributions that liberals want so bad so this whole exercise is just a huge circle jerk.
oh poor us, we spend money on them and they vote against us boo hoo.
Everyone who wasn't fox news did this when Gore got defeated, and what happened? nothing. In fact the tea party came about, so you actually did worse overall.
no, they wouldn't its all limo liberal lies to them, and nothing will change their votes or outlook until they were actually cut off, which goes against classic distributions that liberals want so bad so this whole exercise is just a huge circle jerk.
oh poor us, we spend money on them and they vote against us boo hoo.
Everyone who wasn't fox news did this when Gore got defeated, and what happened? nothing. In fact the tea party came about, so you actually did worse overall.
15
Another great article about this situation at the national level: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/eve…
17
Goldy - what's the source for this map? How do we know it accounts for all state spending? For example, is state spending for the ferry (considered part of the state highway system) reflected in the amount shown for San Juan County?
18
Duh you guys, don't you all see what this all REALLY means?? All the in-the-minority dirty pot smoking welfare having Democrats who live in those red counties are demanding more "gifts" and "welfare Cadillac" money from the State, while all the hard working, job creating, way-too-high tax paying minority Republicans in King county, etc., are creating so much money and jobs and economic bliss that all the mooching Dems can take all that sweet state money. It's so clear! One just has to look behind what is obvious and logical and get to the real Truthy Truth underneath!
19
This is actually all about firms like Amazon etc not paying State and County taxes in their places of business, actually.
But ... nobody wants to admit that.
But ... nobody wants to admit that.
20
The wiki link debunks another myth, that being Republicans are always the rich, and Democrats are always everyone else, namely the Working class and poor.
Two counties in Washington are in the top 100 richest counties in the country. King and San Juan, both Blue/Democrat. So the old often repeated phrase about Republicans only being the rich is basically the reverse in Washington state. The rich counties vote Democrat, the poorer counties vote Republican. I'm willing to bet this goes for California too.
I'm an independent so I'm just pointing out what the numbers show.
Two counties in Washington are in the top 100 richest counties in the country. King and San Juan, both Blue/Democrat. So the old often repeated phrase about Republicans only being the rich is basically the reverse in Washington state. The rich counties vote Democrat, the poorer counties vote Republican. I'm willing to bet this goes for California too.
I'm an independent so I'm just pointing out what the numbers show.
21
Just to add to the discourse: I live in Yakima County, and I bristle at being called a "hick"simply because I live East of the Mountains.
While I understand the frustration on those of you on the West Side, imagine what it's like living in a county that, in many ways, is run like a plantation. A relatively tiny group of voters make all the decisions for the rest of us. I spent several weekends & weeknights doorbelling for progressive candidates, from Obama on down to a candidate for the 15th LD. After hundreds of hours of face-to-face talking to voters encouraging them to mark their ballots & turn their ballots in, our candidate still didn't even break 37%.
But just because the majority of VOTERS is redder than red, do not mistake that the majority of PEOPLE feel quite differently about public services and the taxes that provide them.
Many of those folks--many of them Latino, working-class, unemployed or under-employed, with few educational or economic opportunities--desperately need whatever social safety net is still left intact. But many of them also feel disenfranchised, disempowered, and cynical about the political process as a means of fixing these problems.
It isn't as simple as the Town Mouse and the Country Mouse.
While I understand the frustration on those of you on the West Side, imagine what it's like living in a county that, in many ways, is run like a plantation. A relatively tiny group of voters make all the decisions for the rest of us. I spent several weekends & weeknights doorbelling for progressive candidates, from Obama on down to a candidate for the 15th LD. After hundreds of hours of face-to-face talking to voters encouraging them to mark their ballots & turn their ballots in, our candidate still didn't even break 37%.
But just because the majority of VOTERS is redder than red, do not mistake that the majority of PEOPLE feel quite differently about public services and the taxes that provide them.
Many of those folks--many of them Latino, working-class, unemployed or under-employed, with few educational or economic opportunities--desperately need whatever social safety net is still left intact. But many of them also feel disenfranchised, disempowered, and cynical about the political process as a means of fixing these problems.
It isn't as simple as the Town Mouse and the Country Mouse.
22
I grew up in NJ when tax equalization was not as it is now. Kearny had a small population of only 40,000 with a large industrial base anchored by Monsanto, DuPont, Western Electric and Congoleum Nairn chemical plants. Our schools were the best, as children we had the benefit of small class sizes, new text books, playgrounds, Summer camps all free no matter what the amply income. Imagine a full time school nurse and a free dental clinic in elementary schools. My cousins across the river in Newark were not as fortunate. Newark had the largest population, and though the hometown for many of these companies workers their children and families did not get an equal benefit of the tax base.
I say stop worrying about the Republicans give them time to rethink social justice. We need to watch to see what the Dems are going to do. In the past enough of them went along with zero tolerance laws and sentencing polices that created new prisons in Republican counties, and filled them with poor, brown and black folks from blue counties. King and Pierce County Liberal D's are not innocent. They benefit from the "failure industry" Dem fingerprints all over them. We have some major issues to work out if we are going to be a social justice state. When the state constitution paced education as the "paramount duty" of the legislature the color of the students wer much lighter tan They are now. The legislature must begin to see think of the darkening school population as worthy. Not as merely future low wage workers, nonprofit agency clients, renters, or future prisoners. We will see what Jay does.
I say stop worrying about the Republicans give them time to rethink social justice. We need to watch to see what the Dems are going to do. In the past enough of them went along with zero tolerance laws and sentencing polices that created new prisons in Republican counties, and filled them with poor, brown and black folks from blue counties. King and Pierce County Liberal D's are not innocent. They benefit from the "failure industry" Dem fingerprints all over them. We have some major issues to work out if we are going to be a social justice state. When the state constitution paced education as the "paramount duty" of the legislature the color of the students wer much lighter tan They are now. The legislature must begin to see think of the darkening school population as worthy. Not as merely future low wage workers, nonprofit agency clients, renters, or future prisoners. We will see what Jay does.
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