Boy Nerds Are Still Trying to Tell Girl Nerds That They're Not Real Nerds

Comments

1
A nerd is someone who is too socially awkward to get laid. I've never met a woman who was too socially awkward to get laid.
2
We should all just agree that the Big Bang Theory is not funny.
3
HAAAAHAHAHAHA, that video was made by a coworker of mine, filmed AT our work. You just made her day by posting it Paul!
4
I'm a scientist and a nerd...and a woman. I teach Chemistry. I've never seen Big Bang Theory. Fuck men...seriously. Fuck you all.
5
Leslie Winkle needs to come back. She was awesome.

In non-Big Bang Theory commenting, god these nerds are so stupid. "These women are clearly just trying to get into the pants of socially awkward men by pretending to like the same things, since these socially awkward men would OBVIOUSLY turn down their attentions otherwise......"
6
For years nerds resented the fact that they weren't cool. Now that nerdery has some level of coolness, they resent the fact that people who didn't suffer through being uncool are jumping on the bandwagon.

In other words, it's exactly the same complaint I heard from goths 20 years ago.
7
@2 - way ahead of you. It's just not good. In any way.

You'll find small pockets of this same attitude in surfing, race car driving, basketball, corporate America, and probably just about anywhere else you might also find assholes (so... everywhere).

Before I'd ever worked and spent real time with any serious, black belt-level nerds, I'd always passively rooted for them, thinking of them as the underdogs. Sadly, I've witnessed levels of social small-mindedness from nerd clans that far exceeds anything I'd experienced from even my most bone-headed male friends and acquaintances.
8
I am really sick of the whole "Imma nerd because I play vidya gaems and liek the most popular movie movie ever made."
9
I think the issue is indeed rooted in an old concept of what a nerd is. Big glasses, weird clothes, and obsessive fondness for inane things aren't just for nerds anymore; see contemporary Williamsburg Brooklyn. The issue is that the traditional nerd domains have been embraced by a larger audience thus the backlash from old or overly sensitive nerds about people, especially those with even moderately attractive breasts, being faux nerds and the reflexive harsh attacks.
10
Big Bang Theory started out pretty good because the jokes were often science based and it was fun to actually know what they were talking about.
But then it started going way down hill and I haven't bothered with it for a couple of years.
My daughter, who is currently working as an engineer for a large electronics firm is a nerd in so many ways and has been since grade school (she'd haul her desk top to LAN parties a decade ago). She's big into online gaming and says she never ever identifies herself as female when online because of the bullshit.
11
I think the reason geek/nerd men are bashing on us geek/nerd women is their excuse as to why they couldn't get a girl in the first place is now null and void. The whole "no girl will like me cause im a geek/nerd" excuse is now over. They cant hide behind how we won't "get them" . So they have to come up with some other excuse as to why they still aren't getting a date.
12
"Nerd Taliban" makes me giggle.
13
I think the reason geek/nerd men are bashing on us geek/nerd women is their excuse as to why they couldn't get a girl in the first place is now null and void. The whole "no girl will like me cause I'm a geek/nerd" excuse is now over. They cant hide behind how we won't "get them" . So they have to come up with some other excuse as to why they still aren't getting a date.
14
Posted twice..oops.
15
Geeks / Nerds / whatever keep trying to sort things (and people) into defined groupings.
So it is understandable that they'd run into problems when they encounter people beyond their experience.
So they classify them as "fake".

The question then becomes, what is the specific characteristic that is perceived as missing?
Or is it a case of a characteristic being present that negates "nerd-hood"?
16
Thank you so much for posting our video! It means a lot to us!

This is an important issue that I have addressed several times on various websites I write for - the entire argument is absurd and archaic. A recent article by the editor of Dark Horse for Comics Alliance puts things nicely: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/11/15…
17
Thank you so much for posting our video! It means a lot to us!

This is an important issue that I have addressed several times on various websites I write for - the entire argument is absurd and archaic. A recent article by the editor of Dark Horse for Comics Alliance puts things nicely: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/11/15…
18
@6 that may be part of it, but women are also able to be nerdy and uncool. Male nerds won't accept that either.
19
@7: Unfortunately that kind of goes with the territory. A lot of high-level nerds are nerds precisely because they *don't* know how to relate to other people. That's why they were studying while everyone else was playing football or partying. They also generally faced years of rejection by their peers, because they tend to be "weird" and being smarter than the other kids in school is a sure-fire way to earn their ire. So you end up with a lot of people who are very smart, but also socially maladjusted and full of resentment toward other people.
20
@19
"A lot of high-level nerds are nerds precisely because they *don't* know how to relate to other people."

How about:
A lot of high-level nerds are nerds precisely because they *don't* know how to relate to non-nerds.

"That's why they were studying while everyone else was playing football or partying."

Would it be the same if, instead of studying, they were reading books (or comic books)?
What I'm getting at is whether it is possible for someone to be a "nerd" but not have advanced knowledge of science / math / technology.

Does claiming "nerd" (or "geek") status also imply that you are claiming some intellectual level or achievement?
21
@4: "Fuck men...seriously. Fuck you all."

Chill. These are a few noisy cavemen we're talking about, not an entire gender. You're just responding with the same overreactionary bullshit that the chauvinist nerds are.
22
i done fucked around and got old, but any time i hear a conversation that has 'boys' and 'girls' in it and adults are involved, i know that sit talking is soon to follow.
23
@20 typically yes. Hence I think there's a lot of overlap between "girls aren't real nerds" and "girls aren't as smart as boys". That is partly why this whole thing is offensive.
24
Wow, these nerds are just shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to women.

When I was young, which was well before PCs, nerds were not popular and couldn't get a date to save their lives. If women are trying to attract them, why are the nerds sabotaging their chances? Even these days, it's not like they have that easy of a time getting a date.
25
@19 - Very good points.

Still, there's a comic aspect to seeing a superiority complex so adjoined to rejection.
26
@20: I'd say yes, it implies you have unusually in-depth knowledge of at least one subject. The catch is that subject doesn't necessarily have to be anything useful, of course. If someone's the foremost world expert on Great Lakes Avengers comic books, they're probably a nerd and probably socially at least a little odd.
27
@25: Yeah, I see what you mean...but if you think about it, if you're bullied severely by other kids every day of your young life, you really only have two options -- you can hate yourself because everyone else hates you, or you can hate everyone else because you think they're wrong about you.

28
@2: "We should all just agree that the Big Bang Theory is not funny."

Fucking agreed, It's not minstrelsy, it's not a bunch of ATTRACTIVE WHOREZZZ or whatever people are saying, it's just not funny.

Just like Twilight is a bad movie, there are ways to criticize the movie as being dumb and regressive and bad entertainment without getting all misogynistic about their fanbase.
29
Let's not lump in hating Big Bang Theory for being fake nerds (and not especially funny) with hating women for daring to infringe on the sacred boys club.
30
Holy SHIT, that video is good! I'm glad its creators commented on this thread. Great work!

There are serious problems in nerdville. A buddy of mine has a five-year-old daughter who LOVES the Teen Titans cartoons. He can't show her the current sexed-up comic because it would wreck her. DC needs to get with the fucking times and recognize they're alienating readers with their stupid crap. (Also, the real Superman has red shorts. This is not negotiable. Sigh. I think I'll go read The New Frontier again. Wonder Woman is taller than Superman!)
31
@29: Yeah, like I said before, there really isn't a problem with "fake" nerds. You'll always have people aping whatever is in fashion, badly to fit in. Nerds do that too. Authentic nerds. It's not a "problem", but rude skeezy dudes and the "i'm not like other girls! i don't like 'other' girls" girls who support them in their MRA-lite rants are certainly a problem.
32
http://imagehaul.com/thehauls/8ee58da36e…
And as far as TBBT goes, it's just not funny. My dad thinks it is, but he's an engineer and I'm a scientist, so bleh.
33
Curious where this all stems from? Just read @1.
34
Howz about we ditch the tired euphemistic term "nerd" all together?

It means nothing but "compulsive consumer of mainstreamed products." Any other meaning was lost long ago.

People labeling themselves "nerds" in the age of the internet are signaling to each other that they can find security in the a dominant demographic of totally conventional tastes marketed by corporations.

The result is a pathetic over-indulgence in collective consumer narcism but masked as a sub-group culture where in reality there is no culture.
35
If you aren't a social pariah then you aren't a nerd.
36
A nerd who isn't a sexist pig is no nerd. He's just a man who has a hobby.
37
@26 Yes, but the bigoted geeks in this argument are prioritizing their Great Lakes Avengers expertise above, say, someone who has written a couple million words of Heroes fanfiction. Because *their* geekery as it relates to superheroes is so much more authentic to them than some female's obsessive, prurient, deviant interest in ... superheroes. Yep, the exact same thing. But the fanfiction writer is fake, whereas the comic book aficionado is considered the real deal.

A female really into Twilight is derided; a male really into Harry Potter is awesome. A female really into Harry Potter is tolerated, unless she happens to like things that females often like, such as Snape or Draco or the idea of Harry falling in love with someone else or the really inventive uses of Love Charms or Veritaserum. Then the female gets kicked back into the 'derided' camp, because what she happens to like is too girly for the males to take seriously. Her interests are considered disgusting, whereas his are wholesome.
38
Hahahaha! My high school marching band mate is the "host" of the video. Lol!
39
Being a true nerd means all throughout high school you suffered snuggies, swirlies, or being locked in your locker by the jocks, along with (often brutal) rejection from your crushes.

Few women can claim those accolades.
40
This whole argument is based on a ton of unfounded assumptions made by both sides about the other, and really should be beneath everyone involved. Many male nerds assume women are taking on the moniker 'geek' or 'nerd' because it's now trendy or cool, not because those women finally feel like they can admit to liking the weird, esoteric things they like in this, the post-Internet world. Many female nerds assume anyone who questions their authenticity is a mouth-breathing, smelly, sweaty basement-dweller misogynist who can't get a date and thus lashes out at them. ScienceNerd assumes all men are identical. Seandr assumes that women are never bullied or rejected. I assume you all should have better things to be doing with your time than arguing about who's dorkier than whom, like, for instance, painting up your miniature armies or beating imported video games.

41
Speaking as a white, hetero male who reads, watches, and writes alt-fic, watches every scifi flick I can, and has a fairly extensive comic book collection, I'd like to state for the record that these typically white, typically hetero dillholes don't speak for the rest of us. They're so resentful of their complete and utter lack of mastery over even the simplest social skills that would allow them to get their dicks wet that they feel compelled to treat women with contempt. That way they don't have to be reminded of their own inadequacies.

That said, it remains my opinion that any adult who dresses in a costume for anything other than Halloween is a bit of a dweeb. But that's just my personal feeling on the subject and isn't worth its collective value of 1s and 0s.
42
Young nerds find solace in community. Because it's their refuge from scorn and rejection, they can become fiercely protective of that community. When they see people who they identify as part of the communities that scorned and rejected them co-opting the things that they like, they react poorly. Is that smart? No. Is it sad? Yes. Is there irony in them rejecting people who aren't good enough to fit in to their idea of their community? Sure. It's both understandable and lamentable.
43
@21: Way to mansplain.
44
This is the same type of bigotry that happens when women gamers or skeptics identify with their respective group. Look up the harassment Anita Sarkeesian suffered if you want to see how powerful the sexism and antifeminism is.

I've heard a couple of theories on this. One of those theories is that the bigots fall into the Western equivalent of the hikikomori subculture and they feel that since they are socially isolated that they can treat women as 2D objects (I've heard almost this exact phrasing from people). This is supported by the fact that 4chan was a big instigator for the attacks on Anita Sarkeesian and others.

Another theory is the classic feminist theory where the men are protecting male privilege by excluding the women. This would explain the comments recorded at sites like Fat Ugly or Slutty (random people texting women gamers with sexist crap).

I don't know the exact cause, but if you have been following the exposure of this type of harassment, the fact that male nerds would say female nerds aren't actually real nerds is about the least surprising thing you would expect. There is something very wrong going on and a lot of women are being intimidated by these assholes.
45
Well, here's one nerd boy who's...

drumroll please!

A feminist!

So to this I say: Fuck this sausage party! What this place needs is some viewpoints from the other 50%! You *will* let the girls in, or we will fuck you up! Equality for all! Down with the mansplainers!

Oh, and I happen to know lots of geek women. Dyed-in-the-wool, hardcore science nerds. And damn if they didn't help pioneer the field of computing, either! In the motherfucking 50's, bitches! So there!
46
There's a few things you forgot to mention. There are no girls on the internet. If you want to be a nerd show it. For all the girls who are legitimately nerdy there's a minority of women putting on fake glasses for kicks. Why are nerds angry at this? Mental problems. Also the internet lol.
47
I don't understand the whole He-man Woman-haters' Club thing.

Whatever. Ladies, some of us still want to shag.
48
First world problems.
49
With all the pride nerds take in their supposed intellectual superiority, they sure are susceptible to some downright dumb fucking hysterics.
50
Wow. I guess I bounced out of geek culture before all of this went down. I remember there being a fair amount of con artists who were geeks and also women but they weren't accused of being "not geeks". They were accused of being fucking evil.
51
@42

This was an explanation I heard recently, but it was taken one step further: That women enter geek circles and say "I love all of this!!!" and then glance at the dude who would be labeled as "creepy" and the woman would add "...Except him. He's gotta go."

On the one hand, as a girl who is a geek and was rejected thoroughly by both genders growing up, I feel that it is OK to say "This individual is making me extremely uncomfortable" when we fleel that we might be in physical or psychological danger, but on the other hand it can be argued that comic book shops were the creep's refuge to begin with, a place where he could exist without being judged.

I don't know, maybe it's just the weird politics of the word "creep" since it's a subjective and (devastating) term, and sometimes guys say that women use it as a tool to disenfranchise (and cockblock) awkward men.

It's just all very distressing because the only other word we have is "predator" but that seems unfairly harsh.

How do women communicate that it's okay for both parties to be geeks, and it's OK for both to exist without one party feeling slighted?
52
@35: "If you aren't a social pariah then you aren't a nerd."

Irrelevant. Social pariahs have their own chain of bullydom. Nerds bully others too, as evidenced here.
53
@51: "his was an explanation I heard recently, but it was taken one step further: That women enter geek circles and say "I love all of this!!!" and then glance at the dude who would be labeled as "creepy" and the woman would add "...Except him. He's gotta go."

Give me a goddamned break. This is not about people on the autistic spectrum. This is about manchildren whose misogynistic behavior is endorsed because he's "always been that way". These nerds have been in the clique for decades and never chastised for their attitude.
54
Yeah, I think mainly this is about nasty, unpleasant socially awkward guys hating on women because they can't get their dicks sucked because most women don't waste their time on misogynists. I am nerdy. I am geeky. I am female and I don't date losers like this and I am not unique. I think that is what's got these creeps hate on. It's not their love of Star Trek or comic books that's keeping them from getting laid, it's their own stinky personalities. For decades they used their hobbies and tastes as an excuse for their lack of popularity and now that all those things they blamed for making them outsiders are super popular with women and the mainstream they still can't get laid and they can't accept it's not Star Trek, or anime, or comics, or gaming that makes them losers...it's them that sucks!
55
This whole discussions is basically retarded. Who gives a fuck if you read comic books, play Dungeons and Dragons, and watching fantasy movies. In fact, who cares if you read JG Ballard, listen to Thomas Dolby and programmed Apple II RPGs in the style of Ultima. It doesn't put you on a pedestal. The fact that people need to be "nerds" and "geeks" and fight over these designations betrays the same desperation that all subcultures have, the need to be more "goth" or more "punk" or more "nerd" than someone else. In the end of the day "nerd" and "geek" are just more subcultures that you can throw up next to "metalhead" and the rest. Why are men and women so desperate to be a part of this? What is to be gained? Was social rejection in high school so brutal than you need a clique to feel secure the rest of your life? No one cares if you like Dr. Who or Amiga games, or obscure synth pop. Why not take up physics or synthetic biology or 18th century cultural history, something of real interest that might add to what we know instead of pop culture references and what's on television? Playing nintendo games and reading manga doesn't say anything about you. They're hobbies. Stop taking them so seriously.
56
@43

1. Woman says something stupid
2. Man points out stupidity
3. Man is accused of "mansplaining", because there is no way a woman can be wrong about anything, ever, and if you disagree you are a misogynist.

I am seeing this exact scenario play out in comment threads quite a lot these days.
57
The entire "PSA" reads as people pointing out that a number of geeky men seem to get off on attacking women for not being true geeks.

And projecting their viewpoints onto women who are geeks.
58
Paul, I suppose we don't have to carry this dumb fight into 2013 if we just let the nerds have this. seriously, fuck them. they can die alone in their darkened apartments surrounded by Robotech models, XBox games and Dorritos 3D while the rest of us, man and woman, enjoy whatever the hell we want and are unconcerned with impressing them. they're not going to change, they missed that opportunity in early adolescence if it ever even presented itself. all we can do is use them as an example for our youths as how not to act if you find yourself more than a bit carried away with how much you like Star Trek.
59
Living in an escapist fantasy world: It's not just for awkward teenage boys anymore!

60
@55 I suspect there's a better chance of getting a decent job by being a Dr. Who expert then an 18th Century Cultural History expert.

As someone who has an 8 year old girl who is already devouring sci-fi and comics at an alarming rate, I don't understand why Geek girls let themselves be defined by the guys? Spend time with people who share your interests and respect your opinion. How is it more complicated?
61
I guess I feel like, to a very small degree, this is a real phenomena. Being a geek/nerd is cool in spurts (the mid 80s was one such spurt) and I was a geek before it was cool this most recent spurt. I also attend conventions and have a real chance at winning the Star Trek trivia contests. Before the most recent spurt of nerdy cooliness there were almost NO attendees that didn't have a solid nerd 'reference pool.' It was okay to be a Con Virgin or a Community Newb, but these people knew that they needed to catch up, do their homework. Like all social groups, the common reference pool is necessary to the group. Newbies have an obligation to learn enough to get around, just like a newbie hiker has to learn what to carry in their pack/what to wear on their feet. Being part of the community is like any other hobby -- you have to learn how to do it.

Since the most recent spurt of cool nerdiness, there has been a distinct, though very small group of people that show up and while they are Community Newbs, refuse to do the homework. They are disruptive and expect everyone to roll out a red carpet for them. They tend to be 14-16 years old, and yes, female. (At a 2k + person con, I maybe see like, six.) These folks are oh so obnoxious, and make conventions less fun if you have a run in. (Being staff, I ALWAYS run into them.) I would love to stomp the snot out of them. Not because they are newbs. Not because they are young. Not because they are female (which they aren't always.)

No, I'd like to stomp the snot out of them because they expect to be full-fledged members of a community where they haven't done the homework, aren't making an effort to fit in, and will not stick with. When the next fad identity comes along, we'll never see them again. Like any kind of leech, they are a drain. Yeah, they are obnoxious, but there's only about 2 parts per 1000 at a nerdherd event. If you ignore it, for once, it really will go away.

The geek/nerd community has way bigger problems to deal with.

Like the fact that they are projecting this leechery on ANY female newcomber. Not cool.
62
I'm a geeky female who has been going to science fiction and comic conventions for more than twenty years (yes, I am old. Also, I started young.) I'm pretty sure that this "fake nerd girls" stuff was invented by creepy Internet guys and is perpetuated exclusively by creepy Internet guys. It is not a thing that exists in the real world.

Yeah, there are fans who get snooty about other fans for their lack of rigor or "authenticity" -- usually literature fans who complain about people who only like the movie or the game or whatever -- but this is not traditionally gender-linked. (See http://brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html for reference.)

Also, no normal geek boy cares why a MPS (member of preferred sex) is wearing a skimpy outfit and hanging out at the con. He's just glad they are.
63
@61: " they expect to be full-fledged members of a community where they haven't done the homework, aren't making an effort to fit in, and will not stick with. When the next fad identity comes along, we'll never see them again."

This happens with boys too, though. Shallow, catchphrase spouting more interested in "doing the homework" than any sincere interest in the culture dolts that're just looking for acceptance, but they never get slagged on.
64
@57: What are you babbling about, WIS? How are you trying to find hypocrisy in pointing out entrenched sexism in nerd cliques?
65
@63 -- I agree with you, at least partly. On further reflection, I wrote the following to a friend with whom this discussion was ongoing: "The age group that seems most prone to [insisting on membership without the work] and being disruptive is about 14-24ish. But the girls dominate the younger ages and the boys the upper ages. I'm not sure why that is, but I know that is what I've observed. At the same time -- I don't really want to handily blame this on teenagers, because it's NOT just them though they may dominate the crowd. " Having said that, I wonder if the girls are simply more obvious because they are younger and generally in the 'flamboyant' stage? I wonder if the poser boys, being primarily older are hiding in plain sight?

I can't answer that question, despite being present at events and observing all kinds of nerdy behavior (both good and bad.)

#62 -- I feel like creepy internet dudes occur as often as fake nerd girls, and get blamed for far more.
66
@39 - I am a lady and I have been the subject of serious teasing for being a nerd. I am not sure why you think teasing only happens to male nerds.
67
@36 has it correct. I almost associate the word "nerd" with one who compulsively avoids and puts down women as much as I do with niche interests and tech knowledge.

I don't identify as a nerd, but I feel that I get negatively evaluated just for being smart sometimes. It is visibly irritating to some men when a woman knows more about anything than he does. It gets worse if you make better points in an argument. Sometimes I can feel them shooting the word "bitch" at me through their eyes. I can only imagine what it's like for a sexist man to have a nice girl skip into their male-dominated conventions/forums/blogs and speak intelligibly about the topic. And the second the girl is not familiar with every single little thing the boy is, she's a fake.
68
@66 Yes. Seriously.

Being pure nerd myself, some of you all are talking about geeks mostly. Nerds, for example, don't go to Comic-Con conventions in a costume, they go to scientific conventions and present abstracts of their research.

Here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-the-Differen…

Now, for the record, as an adult anyway, I'm socially pretty un-awkward, and for some reason I always fall in love with geeks, not nerds. Go figure. I like a man who's a little bit childish, I guess.

Both male geeks and nerds CAN certainly be jerks, and not as evolved as one might expect from someone with a big brain.
69
That didn't sound right. I like men who are "playful," perhaps? And imaginative.
70
Crap, I just realized I may have it backwards. You guys are right about the definitions of geek and nerd. Doy.
71
@65: "#62 -- I feel like creepy internet dudes occur as often as fake nerd girls, and get blamed for far more."

No shit, because sexual harassment is objectively worse than poseurdom.
72
@1 as a geeky nerdy girl who did the cheerleading squad's math homework through algebra II and pre-calc I'd like to say: Oh hell yes there are nerd girls too socially awkward to get laid. Thankfully nerdy dating sites and years of snarkiness are finally paying off for me but high school and college were a long frickin string of awkward lack of dating interspersed with hot girls who realized I was a softie who would do shit work for girls in push-up bras and low-cut tops.

And I still don't blame them for taking advantage of that.