Slog
News & ArtsMonday, November 26, 2012
Savage Love Let's Crowdsource This One, Shall We?
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:31 PM
2
Cum stains in panties are usually bigger, but as Dan says, all dudes blow varying amounts/consistencies. Nevertheless, that does not look anything cumlike to me.
3
I hate to weigh in on this, because it's so icky, but yeah, could be normal lady fluids.
It's that two years no sex thing I'd be more worried about, if I were him.
It's that two years no sex thing I'd be more worried about, if I were him.
4
Not to belittle the letterwriter's worry, but please. As a woman, I can tell you I have seen this discharge a thousand times. Woman have discharges for various reasons, and I would say most of them have nothing to do with sex. At different times of the month, I have different discharges. Part of being a functioning woman and all that. Plus, of course, on black panties any discharge will show up and look much worse than it is. I would not worry about this AT ALL, unless, of course, YOU found them hidden in a plastic bag...so, uh, you might want to put them in the laundry NOW.
5
TOTALLY NORMAL WOMAN STUFF. The junk excreted by the cervix changes throughout the cycle. Sometimes it's white like that.
Semen would be colorless, and there'd be a LOT more of it.
Semen would be colorless, and there'd be a LOT more of it.
6
he said two weeks.
agree it's icky, i was leery of weighing in myself. but hey it's just biology. she could have been ovulating, if that makes it more palatable for anyone.
agree it's icky, i was leery of weighing in myself. but hey it's just biology. she could have been ovulating, if that makes it more palatable for anyone.
8
Should we really be posting a woman's panties on the Internet without her consent? I know the guy's anonymous, but this probably isn't really the wisest course of action. It's invasive, and you're basically encouraging this guy to do weird stalkerish shit in a public forum.
10
Without CSI, you're not going to know, but that could be a lot of stuff -- normal vaginal fluid, yeasty vaginal fluid, or even a little Monostat used to treat a discharge of yeasty vaginal fluid. And btw, if your partner has a yeast infection, she might well not be interested in intercourse. Not to get too graphic, but a yeast infection can feel like someone shoved a Christmas tree up you. One complete with ornaments and tinsel.
My guess is you have some other reason to be worried. So have the conversation?
My guess is you have some other reason to be worried. So have the conversation?
11
unbelievably normal. Probably have that in/on my own underwear half the time. Why? I have no idea. Vaginas just do that occasionally, and by occasionally I mean kind of all the time.
Maybe your wife was feeling a little bit horny. Maybe if you do something nice like wash a load of laundry for her, including her underwear that you've currently got in the freezer, she'll want to aim that horniness in your direction.
Maybe your wife was feeling a little bit horny. Maybe if you do something nice like wash a load of laundry for her, including her underwear that you've currently got in the freezer, she'll want to aim that horniness in your direction.
12
Yeah, as another woman I'll add my voice to the others that that is totally normal discharge. It's not always like that but it can be.
13
Your wife is probably going to start her period soon. What's on her panties is not the same sort of fluid that gets secreted during arousal, it's a type of mucus that hangs out near the cervix. Just before menstruation starts, a woman's body will sometimes up production of this mucus, which gets expelled out through the vagina (and thus ends up on panties).
It could also be a sign of dehydration, but I'm not a doctor.
What's a bigger issue is that you're freaking the fuck out after a dry spell of only two weeks, obsessing over your wife's undies, taking pictures of them to share with total strangers and saving them in Ziploc baggies, haunted by the idea that she could be cheating on you. If I was living with someone that anxious, I'd be too stressed for sex, too.
Try asking your wife what you can do to reduce her stress level; I bet that'll give you much better results than inspecting her underwear for signs of infidelity.
It could also be a sign of dehydration, but I'm not a doctor.
What's a bigger issue is that you're freaking the fuck out after a dry spell of only two weeks, obsessing over your wife's undies, taking pictures of them to share with total strangers and saving them in Ziploc baggies, haunted by the idea that she could be cheating on you. If I was living with someone that anxious, I'd be too stressed for sex, too.
Try asking your wife what you can do to reduce her stress level; I bet that'll give you much better results than inspecting her underwear for signs of infidelity.
14
My money is on vaginal secretions. Lots of ladies, myself included wear litedays or thin pads that they can put in the crotch and toss away to keep underwear nice and clean but perhaps she forgot or doesn't use them/need them regularly or whatever.
15
Chime on dude's getting worked up for no reason. Discharge happens, man - which you'd know if you'd done the laundry more often.
16
Not two years! TWO WEEKS.
This guy sounds like a paranoid asshole. I would say, YES your marriage is in trouble, but not because your wife is cheating. Your marriage is in trouble because your response to a TWO WEEK dry spell is to take pictures of your wife's panties and beg a nationally syndicated advice columnist to share them with the world.
You and your wife obviously lack even a baseline of respect, consideration, communication, and trust. You need some kind of intervention pronto.
This guy sounds like a paranoid asshole. I would say, YES your marriage is in trouble, but not because your wife is cheating. Your marriage is in trouble because your response to a TWO WEEK dry spell is to take pictures of your wife's panties and beg a nationally syndicated advice columnist to share them with the world.
You and your wife obviously lack even a baseline of respect, consideration, communication, and trust. You need some kind of intervention pronto.
17
Semen usually turns yellowish after its sits for a while. It wouldn't show up as white on black panties. If anything it would look like a grease stain. That looks like deodorant.
I know when my dog is in heat she leaves behind whitish silvery stuff on my (now replaced) couch.
I know when my dog is in heat she leaves behind whitish silvery stuff on my (now replaced) couch.
18
This is totally normal vaginal discharge...also, I wonder if it's possible she has a yeast infection or just something funky going down there and is embarrassed, and that's the real reason she has not been up for sex?
19
Looks more like blow to me. Maybe your GF has a drug problem and recently smuggled some bad shit through customs in her drawers.
20
I don't even have a cervix anymore (total hysterectomy in 2007) and I still get stuff like that in my undies depending on what time of the month it is (my ovaries function normally). The only time I'm worried about the white stuff is if it's accompanied by itching, because that could mean a yeast infection.
22
Also, though I think the problem here is with the husband, I have a helpful answer for this question: "Is there a way for a layperson to tell the difference between a cumstain and other vaginal secretions?"
I would suggest blowing a load into the panties, waiting a couple days, and then comparing your stain to the pre-existing one. I think they'll look a lot different. Scientific inquiry at its finest.
I would suggest blowing a load into the panties, waiting a couple days, and then comparing your stain to the pre-existing one. I think they'll look a lot different. Scientific inquiry at its finest.
23
Geez, dude, sit her down for a face to face and stop stressing. Ask her if something is wrong or if she's found some one else. Be up front. Communicate instead of sniffing around in dirty clothes.
24
I'm not a lady, but that doesn't look like something that involved another man.
I'm with @13: Chill out, put the undies in the laundry, and work towards helping her --and you-- relax.
I'm with @13: Chill out, put the undies in the laundry, and work towards helping her --and you-- relax.
25
This is the danger of men using napkins/paper towels/kleenex to clean up after masturbating. You fail to recognize what the stain looks like after a few hours/days/weeks. I'm not a female & I know immediately that it's not a cum-stain. I see what they look like when I do my laundry.
26
I vote for yeast infection. Or, just as likely, completely normal lady-juices. There are as many different types of female secretions as there are women and days of the month. But a yeast infection would explain why she hasn't felt like getting down.
28
Woah yeah, totally normal ladystuff. So normal I probably could have identified it as normal ladystuff when I was 10 years old. I was lucky enough to have pretty good sex education in primary (elementary) school, and one of the things I was taught was that when puberty kicked in I'd get boobs and all sorts of hair and whitish goop in my pants.
30
30: Yes, but why is Dan Savage enabling him by posting pictures without the wife's permission? Dan has Internet boundary issues. I still remember the tipping witch hunt he unleashed.
31
29: Yes, but why is Dan Savage enabling him by posting pictures without the wife's permission? Dan has Internet boundary issues. I still remember the tipping witch hunt he unleashed.
32
Before DNA comparisons, police used a black light on suspected semen stains because acid phosphatase is present in semen. It's not conclusive since acid phosphatase is present in other bodily secretions including vaginal secretions, albeit in smaller quantities. But it is an adequate first test and will, with semen, light up like a Grateful Dead poster.
33
@ 16, at least he asked. You'd rather that he just accused her of cheating?
I take that as a sign that he's probably aware that he has some kind of problem. He ought to be commended for resisting giving in to it and seeking advice. Too many men out there would go straight for the murder-suicide.
I take that as a sign that he's probably aware that he has some kind of problem. He ought to be commended for resisting giving in to it and seeking advice. Too many men out there would go straight for the murder-suicide.
35
It's the black panties that worry me the most. BLACK? I know it's slimming and all the rage, but it's just for drag I thought.
36
Am I the only one who is sad that she didn't get to see the panties in question? This sadness comes from the inner two-year-old in me who doesn't like being left out... not because I like seeing dirty panties...
37
@16, he's not a paranoid asshole. Every single person alive--you, me, Dan, the LW, everyone, has at some point in their lives been surprised by something unfamiliar, and reacted in a less than optimal way. It's called being caught off-guard. He's a flawed human, just like the rest of us are.
39
Dude, what is she stressed _about_?
You may have lived this long without any reason to become an expert on vaginal secretions, but surely you know enough about your wife's day-to-day environment to know whether there is something that is likely to be legitimately stressing her out? (e.g., work problem, kid problem, new job, no job, trying to finish that new degree, the relatives, something like that? Maybe having a paranoid husband?) If you hadn't figured out a likely culprit on your own, did you ASK her what was stressing her when she used that word? And have you done anything about trying to alleviate it, if feasible?
Is there some reason for you to think her claim of being stressed is a lie? Some reason other than simple first exposure to an unfamiliar secretion? (I mean, I will admit to having a "whoa, WTF is that?" moment-of-ignorance once myself, but my reaction was more along the lines of "do you need a doctor to take a look at that?")
You may have lived this long without any reason to become an expert on vaginal secretions, but surely you know enough about your wife's day-to-day environment to know whether there is something that is likely to be legitimately stressing her out? (e.g., work problem, kid problem, new job, no job, trying to finish that new degree, the relatives, something like that? Maybe having a paranoid husband?) If you hadn't figured out a likely culprit on your own, did you ASK her what was stressing her when she used that word? And have you done anything about trying to alleviate it, if feasible?
Is there some reason for you to think her claim of being stressed is a lie? Some reason other than simple first exposure to an unfamiliar secretion? (I mean, I will admit to having a "whoa, WTF is that?" moment-of-ignorance once myself, but my reaction was more along the lines of "do you need a doctor to take a look at that?")
40
@8,30,31 "Should we really be posting a woman's panties on the Internet without her consent?"
In a community property state, such as Washington, those panties are almost definitely held in common and he has as much right to consent to their (unworn) display. In most other states, without a specific ownership document showing otherwise, he could probably make a strong case for joint ownership as well.
In a community property state, such as Washington, those panties are almost definitely held in common and he has as much right to consent to their (unworn) display. In most other states, without a specific ownership document showing otherwise, he could probably make a strong case for joint ownership as well.
41
I didn't see the picture, but if you really participated in this guy getting to spread a private picture to the internet without her consent, that sucks, Dan. This guy has serious issues and I hope this relationship is over for her sake. Reminds me of my friend's abusive/jealous boyfriend who would inspect and smell her panties every day and ALWAYS decide there was evidence she was "fucking around." Lack of evidence was further evidence, etc.
But anyway, another reason sex education sucks, because it seems most people who haven't charted it to try to get pregnant have no idea about cervical mucus and the mucus cycle. Normal vaginal discharge cycles from menstruation, to a buildup of mucus (which is crucial to fertility since it allows and channels sperm through), to peak mucus production, to dry following ovulation to the end of the cycle. Some women have more than others, Pill affects it, disorders, etc.
Sorry to keep using the grossest word ever, but you get used to it after a lot of charting. :)
But anyway, another reason sex education sucks, because it seems most people who haven't charted it to try to get pregnant have no idea about cervical mucus and the mucus cycle. Normal vaginal discharge cycles from menstruation, to a buildup of mucus (which is crucial to fertility since it allows and channels sperm through), to peak mucus production, to dry following ovulation to the end of the cycle. Some women have more than others, Pill affects it, disorders, etc.
Sorry to keep using the grossest word ever, but you get used to it after a lot of charting. :)
42
@33 Yes! It would be infinitely better if he could ASK HIS WIFE rather than literally airing her dirty underwear to the world. That's a gross violation of privacy and trust.
@37 No, what he did is not "sub optimal," it's incredibly assholish. I would be devastated if I found out my husband did something like that to me.
@37 No, what he did is not "sub optimal," it's incredibly assholish. I would be devastated if I found out my husband did something like that to me.
44
I was a bit late to the party, so all I got was the update with the public service announcement; "courtesy requires shirts." (Agreed - it certainly does).
45
How in the fuck can you be married to a woman for ten years, cleaning her underwear at least a few times, and not know what the normal emissions look like?
46
I didn't "get" to see the undies, but I want to add that the sticky glue stuff from my panty liners sometimes stays behind after ripping out the panty liner and looks like something cloudy and alarming.
47
It's only been 2 weeks. She may have a particularly embarrassing odor-causing infection she's fighting. That stuff in her panties could be Monistat. The real worry is why you trust your wife so much that you hide her evidence panties in bags and assume infidelity after only 2 weeks.
48
I'm with 13 & 16. Your REAL problem is not that your wife is fucking around (she's not) but that you're such a immature, ignorant bag of anxiety that you immediately leapt to a fucked up conclusion based on basically *nothing*. Wife hasn't wanted sex for two weeks + unfamiliar stuff on undies = diddly squat.
Possibly she has an infection, possibly she's stressed, possibly a lot of things rather than OMFG my wife hasn't put out for TWO WHOLE WEEKS + there's this stuff on her undies = she's going bareback with no withdrawal with some dude! So! I should share photos of her dirty panties with an advice columnist and the whole internet. Ugh. You know who's violating trust right now? YOU!
Now go do the dishes, vacuum the house, make some dinner reservations and buy her a professional massage. Wife is mega stressed is a reason to help out more, give her some extra love, and try to alleviate stress, not go all Sherlock Holmes Panty Inspector.
Possibly she has an infection, possibly she's stressed, possibly a lot of things rather than OMFG my wife hasn't put out for TWO WHOLE WEEKS + there's this stuff on her undies = she's going bareback with no withdrawal with some dude! So! I should share photos of her dirty panties with an advice columnist and the whole internet. Ugh. You know who's violating trust right now? YOU!
Now go do the dishes, vacuum the house, make some dinner reservations and buy her a professional massage. Wife is mega stressed is a reason to help out more, give her some extra love, and try to alleviate stress, not go all Sherlock Holmes Panty Inspector.
50
In case you didn't see 45: how the fuck could he live with her and do laundry for ten years and not know what this was? I have a pair like that in the laundry most weeks.
51
@ 42, he did that at Dan's request. So... if you're mad about that, get mad at Dan, too. And keep in mind that it was still anonymous. If he's smart and doesn't tell her or anyone else what he did, no one will ever be the wiser.
I'm not sure how things generally go for you when you accuse your partner of cheating, but I've never heard of it going very well. If it were me, I'd make sure I had a good reason to initiate such a discussion. Like some evidence. This letter writer's course of action is what is infinitely better.
I'm not sure how things generally go for you when you accuse your partner of cheating, but I've never heard of it going very well. If it were me, I'd make sure I had a good reason to initiate such a discussion. Like some evidence. This letter writer's course of action is what is infinitely better.
52
@35 I wear black around period time because if I leak then I don't have to write the panties off as a completely lost cause. Hard to see a stain on black undies. And I usually get similar whitish discharge stains in my undies right before it starts.
53
@51 It's super weird that you can't imagine any other course of action than "ACCUSE HER OF CHEATING" and "SHOW HER UNDIES TO THE WORLD!!!" How about -- a normal conversation? Some questions? "Honey, I'm worried about us, is there something I should know?" In healthy marriages people can TALK to each other.
@48 SERIOUSLY.
@48 SERIOUSLY.
54
I am absolutely mystified why heterosexual men, who seem to have a deep and abiding interest in vaginas, don't have the faintest idea how they work. Don't you guys have google?
55
Oh my god. Oh my fucking god. I can't believe you aided and abetted this guy, Dan. If I EVER found out my husband did something like this to me I'd pretty seriously be considering a divorce.
56
@54: really. I can understand Dan, kinda sorta, as he clearly has no motivation for learning about anything vaginal and obviously doesn't remember those high school health class lessons oh-so-long-ago. But the 10-years-married husband? Please.
57
@48 Sherlock Holmes would be able to determine the wife's problem, and the infidelity or lack thereof, in less than five minutes with the wife fully clothed. No panty inspections required. :)
(Dr. Greg House, the Sherlock homage, would need less than three minutes, and he'd be a lot funnier, but he'd actually want to see the wife in her panties. Then something she said would trigger an epiphany and he'd rush off to solve the main case of the week.)
(Dr. Greg House, the Sherlock homage, would need less than three minutes, and he'd be a lot funnier, but he'd actually want to see the wife in her panties. Then something she said would trigger an epiphany and he'd rush off to solve the main case of the week.)
59
I didn't see the panty pic, but I am sure glad that the DH isn't sending pics of my everyday wear undies to random people. Yes, sometimes not-so-pleasant things come out of there: everything from ucky mucus to babies to blood. Sometimes, it's normal - maybe for everyone, maybe just for that woman - sometimes, it's not, but mostly, it's evidence of nothing more than bodily functions. Whether it's normal or not, we really don't need it flashed around the internets as evidence of "cheating." Perhaps she can figure it out and send in a picture of the shit-stained toilet the next time you overindulge? "Dan, my husband left these dirty brown streaks all over the bowl, and I'm afraid they're evidence of pegging. I have no EVIDENCE he's getting his pegging jollies elsewhere, but no one shits that much unless they've had something shoved up their ass, AMIRITE?"
60
This thread is fucking amazing. I've been awake since 4:15 a.m. and I am so, so happy now.
@22 nailed the most practical answer. Scientific method, please.
And what was the thought process here (if any)? Once the internet confirms jizz, what was the husband going to know? Confront her with the panties? Shake them in her face, yelling, "I KNOW"?
@22 nailed the most practical answer. Scientific method, please.
And what was the thought process here (if any)? Once the internet confirms jizz, what was the husband going to know? Confront her with the panties? Shake them in her face, yelling, "I KNOW"?
61
@ 53, that wasn't what you were proposing. Because this guy - who, I feel I have to repeat, is probably aware that he has a problem - isn't capable of that right now. He's flipping out.
I hope that makes it a bit more clear that it's weird to think he can sit down and have that kind of conversation. I'm positive if he tried, it would come out as an accusation of cheating.
I hope that makes it a bit more clear that it's weird to think he can sit down and have that kind of conversation. I'm positive if he tried, it would come out as an accusation of cheating.
62
I love how everyone is jumping on the guy because he sent a pic of PANTIES to Dan, and he posted it. He didn't sent a pic of her or her genitals, just some panties that might belong to anyone. PRIVACY, VIOLATIONS, IGNORAMUS, HORRIBLE MAN, CRUCIFY HIM!!!!!
I'd be willing to bet that 50%+ of American het males have no clue what their wives secrete on any given day, even if they do the laundry- who looks at that stuff? I doubt any wives doing laundry inspect their hubby's undies, either- yuck.
No end to the entertainment on SLOG.
I'd be willing to bet that 50%+ of American het males have no clue what their wives secrete on any given day, even if they do the laundry- who looks at that stuff? I doubt any wives doing laundry inspect their hubby's undies, either- yuck.
No end to the entertainment on SLOG.
63
Just re-read the post since it's modifications. Dan- I'll bet you both feel awful- him for sending anything to you and getting tossed to the wolves, and you for having tossed him.
I pity you both, and shame on the dogs here on SLOG- sheesh.
I pity you both, and shame on the dogs here on SLOG- sheesh.
64
Yeah, this guy is a douche and needs to calm down, but this is not some gross violation of trust, so maybe some calming down is in order here, too. It's anonymous - we do not know who this woman is, there is no way for us to find out who this woman is.
65
@ Sargon Bighorn (35) - um, really?? You're perplexed by black panties? You'd have a fit looking at my underwear drawer, then. (For what it's worth, if the vast majority of the rest of one's clothes are black, it kinda helps to have panties that match.)
66
I didn't see the picture either, but based on the comments, it's spinnbarkeit. She's just ovulating--chillax!
67
@62 and @63 - I think it's the combination of knee-jerk ignorance and panic that has got the ladies of the interwebs so fed up. In this case the guy did inspect his wife's undies, but was woefully unqualified to do so. And it wasn't nice to put something so private up for all to see, anonymous or not.
The correct advice question would have been, 'It's been two weeks since my wife and I have had sex and I'm inspecting her panties for signs of infidelity - what the heck is wrong with me?' If Dan had been on form, he could have just reframed his response to address that. Anyway, hopefully no harm done and yes, @22 definitely wins the Internet today.
The correct advice question would have been, 'It's been two weeks since my wife and I have had sex and I'm inspecting her panties for signs of infidelity - what the heck is wrong with me?' If Dan had been on form, he could have just reframed his response to address that. Anyway, hopefully no harm done and yes, @22 definitely wins the Internet today.
68
@62: "I'd be willing to bet that 50%+ of American het males have no clue what their wives secrete on any given day, even if they do the laundry- who looks at that stuff?"
It doesn't fucking matter what they do EVERY day, but if you've done her laundry, at some point it's come up to the top of the pile or been thrown on the floor after ten fucking years.
It doesn't fucking matter what they do EVERY day, but if you've done her laundry, at some point it's come up to the top of the pile or been thrown on the floor after ten fucking years.
69
@62 Yeah, no. Now people are trying to say the women are being too reactionary? This guy just perpetrated a HUGE betrayal of trust against his wife. How do people not get that? It'd be horrible if some weirdo was stealing her underwear and posting pics of them on the internet, and her own HUSBAND did this to her.
70
Late to the party, but it's elementary to deduce from the comments that there was a clear consensus (which rarely happens to this degree) - stop freaking out, put the energy into cleaning house and doing chores, give her a nice foot/back/shoulder rub when she gets home, and ask her what she would like you to do to make her night awesome. Much more fruitful than "Sherlock Holmes Panty Inspector" (@48 - gold star for that one)
71
And here I thought all along that "airing your dirty laundry" was a euphemism!
I have this pair of socks that has some bluish-greenish stain that I can't get out. If I send you a pic will you please post it & see if anyone has ideas for how to get it out?
I have this pair of socks that has some bluish-greenish stain that I can't get out. If I send you a pic will you please post it & see if anyone has ideas for how to get it out?
72
Wow, as of this morning, yesterday's Obamacare supreme court post received 24 comments, and the panties-stained post received 71 comments.
SLOG readers really know their priorities as to what gets their panties all in a twist.
(Agreed, the husband has some serious trust issues and cluelessness. Also, some women are more likely to have secretions when they sit on cold surfaces. Plus, I guess by my commenting on this and not on the SCOTUS case post, I'm just another lemming?)
SLOG readers really know their priorities as to what gets their panties all in a twist.
(Agreed, the husband has some serious trust issues and cluelessness. Also, some women are more likely to have secretions when they sit on cold surfaces. Plus, I guess by my commenting on this and not on the SCOTUS case post, I'm just another lemming?)
73
Another one for the "evidence that the state of human sexuality/sexual anatomy education in USA sucks" file.
74
Um, is no one else bothered by the fact that after TEN YEARS of marriage this dude instantly thinks his wife is cheating on him because they haven't had sex in two weeks? Two weeks and this guy is sniffing his wife's panties and posting pics of them on the internet. I've had cases of the flu that lasted longer than 2 weeks. Jesus, she should be posting a picture of him with "Is this guy an asshole or is there a normal explanation for this?" Maybe she's not in the mood because her husband is ridiculous.
75
@74 - My wife and I have been together almost 20 years and 2 weeks of no sex would still be a huge break. The only times we had breaks like that were a) a few weeks after childbirth (well, no vaginal...) and b) when one of us was away on business.
And I thought all enlightened men sniffed their wives' panties whenever they got the chance. Who doesn't love the scent of a healthy, non-yeasty, non-menstruating vagina?
And I thought all enlightened men sniffed their wives' panties whenever they got the chance. Who doesn't love the scent of a healthy, non-yeasty, non-menstruating vagina?
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