Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, December 19, 2012
Dinosaurs This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Fucking Things
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 7:16 AM
Why the empty, endless use of the "f" word by The Stranger, even to describe the state budget? They're managing to cheapen the word.
— joel r. connelly (@joelconnelly) December 19, 2012
5
How about Democrats dropping "Marriage Equality" like a hot potato now that they're looking for other ways to get votes?
7
Holy fuck. It's impossible to sanely discuss the political (and budgetary) discourse in this country without a generous sprinkling of epithets. They enable us to express disgust, contempt and disbelief, while adding a bit of levity. The only alternatives are suicide or a good old-fashioned torches-and-pitchforks uprising.
8
Given the current state of both the Union and the State, I'd say that both the Stranger and SLOG have been quite judicious in their use of Fuck. I've been saying it a lot more frequently than they have...
16
About time somebody did something about the price of f*ck. In this economy all I can afford is f, c and k, and a cheapass Chinese made * I got at Wal-Mart.
18
Oh heavens. Someone might cheapen a filthy curse word, thereby dulling its effects and making it less offensive. I don't know what this dude's paying for f-bombs but it's probably more than I am.
21
@ 13, I've known a few people who manage to swear in every sentence that comes out of their mouths, usually more than once, and THAT kinda made the words meaningless.
Poor Joel, however, must be a delicate soul if he thinks The Stranger's use of "fuck" comes anywhere near that point. Pass him some smelling salts, I do believe he's getting the vapors.
Poor Joel, however, must be a delicate soul if he thinks The Stranger's use of "fuck" comes anywhere near that point. Pass him some smelling salts, I do believe he's getting the vapors.
22
Maybe Connelly just feels dirty now when he says the word fuck as he's about to screw in bed. If it weren't for those meddling kids. . . .
23
I think it just depends on what you are trying to accomplish at the Stranger. Yes, the use of foul language plays well with this niche audience, and as long as you are happy with catering to it, then go ahead and use all the obscenities you want. It has gotten you to your current level of readership, but it will also keep you at this same level.
But if the Stranger really wanted to make a difference here in Washington state, and if the writers really wanted to reach beyond their core audience of hipster urban liberals and change the thinking of folks who won't even consider reading it because of the crudeness, then you might consider toning it down a notch and creating pieces filled with intellectualism rather than just overflowing with fuck fuck fuck.
But if the Stranger really wanted to make a difference here in Washington state, and if the writers really wanted to reach beyond their core audience of hipster urban liberals and change the thinking of folks who won't even consider reading it because of the crudeness, then you might consider toning it down a notch and creating pieces filled with intellectualism rather than just overflowing with fuck fuck fuck.
25
I guess you guys throw around the "fuck" word so haphazardly that I just tone it out. Scrolling down the posts currently on the Slog, I can't find any "fucks" at all.
27
I'm pretty sure people who don't read the stranger because "it's crude" are just looking for the stodgiest way of saying "I only read conservative things".
31
Stranger seems very tame to me. This Connely dude must be a like fucking celibate monk or something. Doesn't even want an occasional fuck?
34
I agree with what 23 has to say. I believe the use of swearing should be used judiciously so that when it is used, it brings the appropriate amount to shock to the receiving audience. I'm also aware that I'm older than the core demographic of this blog, so my perceptions probably don't hold much sway with the writers.
I will say, I notice adults 20 years my junior will use foul language in inappropriate places. I work in customer service, in a managerial position, and I can't tell you how many times I have had to take my colleagues aside and correct their language. To a person, they've all said they were unaware what they had even said. I found that very interesting, and typical of so many people in our modern world-- Speaking without even knowing what you said.
I will say, I notice adults 20 years my junior will use foul language in inappropriate places. I work in customer service, in a managerial position, and I can't tell you how many times I have had to take my colleagues aside and correct their language. To a person, they've all said they were unaware what they had even said. I found that very interesting, and typical of so many people in our modern world-- Speaking without even knowing what you said.
36
I work at an airline. Do you think its appropriate for airline employees to swear at their customers?
I didn't think so.
I didn't think so.
37
Fuck this, and fuck that. Fuck it all and fuck a fucking brat. She don't want a baby that looks like joel b. connolly.
38
They're coming for our swear words!
They forget we need 'fuck' to keep tyranny at bay and to defend ourselves from other fuckers.
They forget we need 'fuck' to keep tyranny at bay and to defend ourselves from other fuckers.
39
I always thought it was because you guys were too cheap to spring for a thesaurus, then I remembered that if you have no problems finding terrible videos and rants by evangelical clodpates online, the dull, repetitive thwack of a four-letter word in all its conjugations and permutations must be due to collective intentional ignorance.
40
Yeah, 35, when working with the general public, it's pretty common to have to watch your swears. I curse like a sailor on my own time, but in the office, the worst thing I'll say is "Jiminy Crickets!"
43
He makes it sound like the word "fuck" is this beautiful, spun glass statue of Venus upon a pedestal in an ivory tower surrounded by angels singing the most beautiful song you've ever heard.
It's like the way that anti-porn activists simultaneously revile and romanticize sex when they say "porn degrades a beautiful human experience".
It's like the way that anti-porn activists simultaneously revile and romanticize sex when they say "porn degrades a beautiful human experience".
44
@43 "It's like the way that anti-porn activists simultaneously revile and romanticize sex when they say "porn degrades a beautiful human experience". "
I agree, it's a beautiful experience being tied up and gang banged by 7 really hung studs all while it's being live streamed. Beautiful and fucking HOT!!!!
I agree, it's a beautiful experience being tied up and gang banged by 7 really hung studs all while it's being live streamed. Beautiful and fucking HOT!!!!
45
@43 - I know, right? It's the paradox of the profane. Repression strengthens; freedom weakens. But on the other hand, these words become cemented into our heads early in childhood as being special and naughty. No amount of exposure will ever quite make them sound as neutral as other words. And that's good; we need our magic curse words to stay magic. Maybe not quite as much as Mr. Connelly thinks, but we do.
Oh and @23 - the Stranger is a regional urban arts & entertainment weekly. A fine one, but that's what it is. that's not going to change.
Oh, and fuck.
Oh and @23 - the Stranger is a regional urban arts & entertainment weekly. A fine one, but that's what it is. that's not going to change.
Oh, and fuck.
46
I can't have nice fucking things because my fucking cats destroy fucking everything they get their fucking paws on.
48
To me there is a big difference between word choice in writing and word choice in speaking.
It drives me crazy when a repeated fill words crop up in spoken language, eg. "and he goes... and then she goes... and, like, they go...., like, ya know, right?"
I think some thought should be expended when writing articles that appear in the print edition of The Stranger, and I have no problem with using the word "fuck" for a reason, even if it is just to connect with a certain audience, but at least have an actual reason and not just to increase word count (are they paid by the word?)
Blogging is between those two extremes - more ephemeral and more of a "toss off" - so its Okay to throw in a random fuck now and then while waiting for the brain to actually engage.
It drives me crazy when a repeated fill words crop up in spoken language, eg. "and he goes... and then she goes... and, like, they go...., like, ya know, right?"
I think some thought should be expended when writing articles that appear in the print edition of The Stranger, and I have no problem with using the word "fuck" for a reason, even if it is just to connect with a certain audience, but at least have an actual reason and not just to increase word count (are they paid by the word?)
Blogging is between those two extremes - more ephemeral and more of a "toss off" - so its Okay to throw in a random fuck now and then while waiting for the brain to actually engage.
49
@48, there is a big difference between inarticulate idiocy ("he goes...and then, like, they go..." and articulate emphasis ("fucking A").
Joel Connolly does not equate with "old". All self-respecting old people refute any association with Joel Connolly. He's not old, he's just a priss.
Joel Connolly does not equate with "old". All self-respecting old people refute any association with Joel Connolly. He's not old, he's just a priss.
50
@45, if the Stranger only wants to be a "regional urban arts & entertainment weekly," then great. Mission accomplished.
But every day I come on here and see Dan or Dominic or some other writer screeching about injustice and unfairness and acting like the world is ending because not everyone sees things as they do. They surely seem like they want to accomplish more than a regional weekly would when they crusade for marriage equality or against charter schools.
I just feel that they do it so very poorly by only pandering to current readers rather than reaching out to those outside their small circle of readers. It's a shame, because with their talents, I think they could make such a huge difference.
But every day I come on here and see Dan or Dominic or some other writer screeching about injustice and unfairness and acting like the world is ending because not everyone sees things as they do. They surely seem like they want to accomplish more than a regional weekly would when they crusade for marriage equality or against charter schools.
I just feel that they do it so very poorly by only pandering to current readers rather than reaching out to those outside their small circle of readers. It's a shame, because with their talents, I think they could make such a huge difference.
51
@ 50 - "It's a shame, because with their talents, I think they could make such a huge difference."
Are you saying they haven't made a huge difference?
Well, you know, there was that whole "It Gets Better" thing... and successful campaigning for not only Marriage Equality, but legal weed, as well.... Seems like we in WA state dodged a bullet when we didn't elect that McKenna fellow, with the Stranger's strenuous help... And I seem to recall something about a Pulitzer Prize that happened, too...
I think it's pretty obvious what kind of impact The Stranger and its writers have had on this world, regardless of their potty mouths.... And, in this Christmas season, I say THANK FUCKING GOD FOR THE FUCKING STRANGER AND ALL ITS FUCKING WRITERS!!!
:-D
Are you saying they haven't made a huge difference?
Well, you know, there was that whole "It Gets Better" thing... and successful campaigning for not only Marriage Equality, but legal weed, as well.... Seems like we in WA state dodged a bullet when we didn't elect that McKenna fellow, with the Stranger's strenuous help... And I seem to recall something about a Pulitzer Prize that happened, too...
I think it's pretty obvious what kind of impact The Stranger and its writers have had on this world, regardless of their potty mouths.... And, in this Christmas season, I say THANK FUCKING GOD FOR THE FUCKING STRANGER AND ALL ITS FUCKING WRITERS!!!
:-D
52
@42, I wish the writers at The Stranger would wear little blue bows and plastic nametags too, like the air clerks.
53
@49 - agreed. Perhaps an example:
Spoken, the phrase "why the fuck can't they pass a FUCKING BUDGET?!" may be part of an extended rant and be an appropriate crescendo, but the same phrase written includes awkward grammar and seems to be overkill to me. Better to write "why can't they pass a fucking budget?" to show the obvious irritation and avoid the double-word stumble.
Spoken words slip by quickly and might cause some immediate reaction that fades right away, so an excess of "fuck" just becomes part of the oral landscape - background if you will. Properly parsed out, the written word "fuck" can be lots and lots of things and show some thoughtful writing, with good impact, but we can't overlook the fact that written words are more permanent and consequently are held up to greater scrutiny. Just the way it is.
The real problem, in my mind, is careless writing - mindlessly blogging as if speaking - and leaving a trail to be examined and, potentially, critiqued for presentation rather than content.
Spoken, the phrase "why the fuck can't they pass a FUCKING BUDGET?!" may be part of an extended rant and be an appropriate crescendo, but the same phrase written includes awkward grammar and seems to be overkill to me. Better to write "why can't they pass a fucking budget?" to show the obvious irritation and avoid the double-word stumble.
Spoken words slip by quickly and might cause some immediate reaction that fades right away, so an excess of "fuck" just becomes part of the oral landscape - background if you will. Properly parsed out, the written word "fuck" can be lots and lots of things and show some thoughtful writing, with good impact, but we can't overlook the fact that written words are more permanent and consequently are held up to greater scrutiny. Just the way it is.
The real problem, in my mind, is careless writing - mindlessly blogging as if speaking - and leaving a trail to be examined and, potentially, critiqued for presentation rather than content.
54
"Mother fucking fuck is just another fucking word. The idea a word is dirty is [...] fucking absurd." - Jay Brannan
55
Dan Savage clearly craves Joel's attention to make a brief but meaningful tweet into an entire slog post.
56
Stephen Fry, Great Person, on the subject:
It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what.
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