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Thursday, January 10, 2013

SL Letter of the Day: Someone Missed the Cougar Meme

Posted by on Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 4:44 PM

Big fan. Read all your books. Can't wait for you to finish your next one! Anyway, I have a question. I'm a straight 24-year-old female. When I was 18 I was hooking up with this SUPER hot guy who was a friend of my brother. I then got a boyfriend who I was with for over four years. Hot guy and I stopped talking because he was kind of a dick. While we were hooking up he would occasionally pick me up at my mom's house. They met maybe three times for a total of 15 minutes. My mom is a good looking lady. I have had friends who have had crushes on her. When I would come home from college, I would sometime witness my mom bring young guys home from the bar—one I remember being 26!—and my mom made lots of comments about hot guys in their twenties.

My boyfriend and I broke up about a year and a half ago. I finished graduate school and moved back to my hometown for the summer and reconnected with hot guy. He apologized for being a dick and we started a quasi-friendship which ended up with us making out in his pool. After this happened, he disclosed to me that my Mom had messaged him on facebook two years ago. He showed me the message:

Hey! how r u?! how was ur week? im @ [college my brother attended]. love it here! Have fun whatever u do tonight! Signed [my mom]

I texted her confronting her about it and basically stating that I knew her intentions. She called me and acted dumb. She then told me she looked in her inbox and could not find the message. She then tried to make me feel guilty for insinuating that she would try to do that. The subject was quickly dropped and I let it go. Fast forward to last week. I moved away and my mom came to visit. She left her Facebook open. I looked in her messages—yeah, yeah: privacy, balh blah blah—and found the message! She didn't even bother to delete it! I took a picture as evidence. So not only did she send it and then lie to me about it, she sent it, lied about it, and tried to make me feel guilty that I would accuse her of sending it!

My mom has a live in boyfriend now and thankfully hot guy never responded to her message so the point is pretty moot. But I am 100% sure what her intentions were and it makes me disgusted. What the hell do I do? I feel like I have 3 options.

1. Confront her, call her a liar, get into a massive fight, stop talking.
2. Ignore it and move on.
3. Leave it for now until she does something equally as shitty—I give it a couple months!—and I throw this in her face.

Mom Made Moves On My Ex-FWB

P.S. I am not on my home computer right now. But if you respond I'll send you pictures of my hot ex!



You're mad at your mom for being a middle-aged parent who likes hot guys in their twenties and isn't above making a play for her daughter's hot ex. And in the hopes of getting a response, MMMOMEFWB, you bribe me pictures of that same hot ex. You do realize that I'm a middle-aged parent too, right? And that by choosing to respond to your letter I have revealed myself to be no better than your mother?

Please send the promised pictures at your earliest convenience.

Look, MMMOMEFWB, some middle-aged women like to sleep with much-younger men. People started calling them "cougars" a decade or so ago and then cougars became a "thing" and then they became a sitcom and now they're dead. (Google "Demi Moore" and "Ashton Kutcher" and read up on world historical events.)

Demi and Ashton are no more, sadly, but there are still women out there who like to sleep with much-younger men. Your mom is one of those women. And there are still younger men out there who like sleeping with middle-aged women. I believe your mother introduced you to one or two when you were home from college, no?

Where am I going with this? Here, I guess...

I'm not sure why you're so angry at your mom, MMMOMEFWB. The Facebook message Mr. Hot showed you—and I am still waiting for those pictures—didn't tell you anything about your mom that you didn't already know. She likes younger guys. There's something creepy about her hitting on your ex-FWB and your mother's denial could charitably be interpreted as an admission of creepguilt on her part. But your mom didn't hit on Mr. Hot while you were with him. And one random, ill-advised, and humiliating Facebook message ≠ a sustained assault on Mr. Hot's virtue. And your mom didn't hit on him until long after you had fallen out of touch with him. So... it could've been worse, right?

Frankly, MMMOMEFWB, it sounds to me like your mom's antics grossed you out when you were forced to witness them—all those young men stumbling around her house in the middle of the night, all those friends of yours who had crushes your on your mom (not necessarily her fault, of course, but perhaps she encouraged them)—and now you're attaching a lot of free-floating anger to a silly lie she told about a humiliating Facebook message that she probably regrets sending. If you're angry with your mother for not being an adult when you were a kid—or not being the adult you needed her to be—then be angry with her for that. And you have a right to be upset about that. It does sound like your mom was too busy chasing after young adults to parent one.

Back to the options for lay out for yourself:

1. Confront her, call her a liar, get into a massive fight, stop talking.
2. Ignore it and move on.
3. Leave it for now until she does something equally as shitty—I give it a couple months!—and I throw this in her face.

If you don't like the person your mother is, MMMOMEFWB, then you shouldn't go with option 1 or option 3, as both options require you to act like her. Confront and fight, wait for a fight and confront—those are choices that would appeal to an immature person. So go with option 2: let it go.

And by "it" I mean the stupid Facebook message. If you want to have a conversation with your mom about the way her youngmanizing made you feel uncomfortable when you were a teenager and young adult, go ahead and have a conversation with her about that.

Now send those pics.

P.S. I finished my next book earlier this week. You can pre-order it now by going here.


Comments (50) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
The response could have been a whole lot shorter: Grow the fuck up!
Posted by decidedlyodd on January 10, 2013 at 4:50 PM · Report this
biffp 2
I was bored of this before the end of the letter. Obviously, her and the mom are hot. This a small 'c' Dinah and Lindsay story.
Posted by biffp on January 10, 2013 at 4:54 PM · Report this
That FB message isn't humiliating at all. She asked him how it was going. Yes, it's an obvious lead-in to something flirtier and eventually making a pass/invitation at/to him. So what?

This just strikes me as that ridiculous angsty grossness kids get about their parents having a sexuality. It's useful to prevent incest, I suppose, but it's socially awkward and pretty fucking insensitive. Her mom has a right to make polite approaches to whatever adults she wants to make approaches to. If she sent Mr. Hot one text and nothing else, then she's well within the realm of polite to my eye.
Posted by Gamebird on January 10, 2013 at 5:00 PM · Report this
seatackled 4
Or give the hot guy an opportunity for a certain kind of mother-daughter fantasy.
Posted by seatackled on January 10, 2013 at 5:01 PM · Report this
saxfanatic 5
Wait! There's another option: Get back at your mom by dating a much older guy. Ha! That'll teach her!

I can help you out here too...
Posted by saxfanatic on January 10, 2013 at 5:19 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 6
MMMOMWhatthefuckever-- You know you're an immature brat, right? That you felt your Mom's sex life is your personal responsibility, thus forgiving invading her privacy, just so you could throw it back in her face, right?

You have an amazing career ahead of you as a Catholic Priest or Evangelical Preacher. As a decent human being & mature adult, well.... that'll take some work.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on January 10, 2013 at 5:30 PM · Report this
I suppose the Useful Moral is that there are quite enough people on the planet to pursue without choosing any of one's child's exes.

This feels more like a case for Dr McGraw than Mr Savage. But I do agree with Mr S that the LW is wasting a winning hand.
Posted by vennominon on January 10, 2013 at 5:39 PM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 8
True fact: many middle-aged people find younger people attractive. Shocking, I know.

Sure, it's a bit crass for her to hit on your ex, but he was, after all, your ex, not someone you were dating at the time. That aside, this all sounds like a whole lot of manufactured drama over nothing.
Posted by Reverse Polarity on January 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM · Report this
Contrary to popular belief, there is no little mechanism in the female tonsils that plants a flag on a guy's tongue during the makeout process. So her mom sent a text. It's not like she had sex with her daughter's ex (or current).
Posted by DRF on January 10, 2013 at 6:15 PM · Report this
Plus she wasn't even dating the guy exclusively. Since when do you get to act possessive of a fuck buddy?
Posted by wxPDX on January 10, 2013 at 6:44 PM · Report this
Honestly, the worst part is that her mom went full-on LOL-speak.
Posted by MLM on January 10, 2013 at 6:58 PM · Report this
TheMisanthrope 12
I'm a bad man for hoping Mom actually fucked Mr Hot while the daughter was dating him and the message was about rekindling that liaison. Not because its hot for him or mom. But to give the daughter something to be pissed over.
Posted by TheMisanthrope on January 10, 2013 at 6:58 PM · Report this
OutInBumF 13
I've got a bushel basket full of wrongs my parents committed- affairs, divorces and re-marriages (several times)- you name it. But their sex life is their business, not mine. This person needs to learn the la-la-la-la-la song re: her mom's business and get a life of her own. Sheesh.
All in all, a rather dull SLLOTD, but better than the rehash we've been getting for months. Congrats on the book, Dan. Can hardly wait to read it.
Posted by OutInBumF on January 10, 2013 at 7:20 PM · Report this
Alanmt 14
He is an ex-temporary hookup buddy from years earlier, who was her brother's friend, not hers. Sheesh.

Yeah, not the best person for mom to flirt with, but not worth anywhere near the level of anger and being creeped out LW is exhibiting. Who cares? Given what Cougarmama knew at the time, and her inability to predict this guy would later show some renewed interest in LW and that he would find it somehow important to tell LW about that old text, not totally outrageous. Dd she know daughter had a few hookups with this dude, or did she remember him as her son's friend?

Granted the text is nauseating with its u and ur, but whatever.

Dan's advice is spot on - ignore it, move on, and grow up. Or, if it triggered lingering resentment over your mom's hookups vis-a-vis her parenting skills, as opposed to mere resentment that she was eating out of your dog dish, discuss it with her like a goddamn adult, not "throw it in her face" as the opening gambit in a "massive fight".
Posted by Alanmt on January 10, 2013 at 7:24 PM · Report this
The mom didn't do anything wrong. Weird that the LW feels some kind of ownership over a dude who she never technically dated and who wound up being kind of a dick, in her own words. She needs to get over it.
Posted by Amanda on January 10, 2013 at 7:25 PM · Report this
Alanmt 16
@12 I'm a bad man too for hoping he was the brother's bisexual hookup buddy first, which would put sister on the same moral ground as her mother.
Posted by Alanmt on January 10, 2013 at 7:26 PM · Report this
wisepunk 17
Dan it's not a meme. A meme implies that the trend will flash bright and burn out quick. Ladies of a certain age have always been, and always will be, down to fuck. Bless their horny little hearts for it.
Posted by wisepunk on January 10, 2013 at 7:46 PM · Report this
rob! 18
@16, as soon as you said it I realized the same thought had been doing a lazy backstroke around the margins of my lizard brain.
Posted by rob! on January 10, 2013 at 7:48 PM · Report this
I'm wondering what exactly are Letter Writer's grounds for thinking that "SUPER Hot Guy" was off limits to Mom? Justifiable ones, that is. If she hasn't got good, justifiable reasons, then Mom didn't do a damned thing wrong, at which point both options A and C are going to make Letter Writer look really, really stupid when she tries to pick a fight.

Bottom line for me is that "SUPER hot guy" just showed again what a complete cad he is. That was Mom's and his private business -- LW has no right to that info -- and rather than being discreet he exposed it to the most embarrassing person possible and created all manner of acrimony in the family. If you need any reason to reevaluate why not to get back together with him, here it is. Dump him as an idiot, if not a malicious shit-stirrer.
Posted by avast2006 on January 10, 2013 at 8:13 PM · Report this
Mr Avast - No; they all seem to deserve each other; the LW should marry SHG and then the trio can all live unhappily ever after, keeping Mr Savage in work on a regular basis. It even seems like the sort of situation they'll all enjoy deep down.
Posted by vennominon on January 10, 2013 at 8:40 PM · Report this
seandr 21
I finished my next book earlier this week.

Congratulations! Pop open the champagne.
Posted by seandr on January 10, 2013 at 10:28 PM · Report this
seandr 22
Still waiting for the male cougar meme to get some traction...
Posted by seandr on January 10, 2013 at 10:30 PM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 23
The LW has a Master's degree?!?!?!?!?

I sure hope it's not in Psych. It just proves that, though some people may have the I.Q. for higher education, they may be lacking in E.Q.*

IMO the outrage and DWAMA seem manufactured (after all, the FB message was shallow and innocuous) and are a smokescreen for the LW's true feelings: disgust that her mom is a sexual being; envy that her mom is attracting younger men who should rightfully be hers (even if she never shows an interest, but - you know - it's the principle of the thing, lol). Also, how DARE her mother lie to her in response to the accusations? I can see the LW stomping her foot!

So middle-school for someone in her mid twenties. LW, please grow up - NOW - and drop the outraged act.

[*E.Q. = Emotional Quotient]
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on January 10, 2013 at 10:49 PM · Report this
sirkowski 24
This could be a good episode of COPS.
Posted by sirkowski on January 10, 2013 at 11:36 PM · Report this
sissoucat 25
@wisepunk my little horny heart says "thank you !"

Ovide wrote in the "Art of love" that older females are not to be disdained as lovers, since women reached their full potential after seven lustra - that is, after 35.
Posted by sissoucat on January 11, 2013 at 12:54 AM · Report this
More evidence that a graduate degree doesn't prove a damn thing about a person's intelligence or maturity.
Posted by Functional Atheist on January 11, 2013 at 2:09 AM · Report this
Oh, honey, it's OK for you to pimp out the hot guys pics but your mom has to stay away?
Posted by GusII on January 11, 2013 at 3:01 AM · Report this
I was wondering if her Ex knows that she is sending out his pics, and if it was unethical of Dan to accept the bribe.
Posted by migrationist on January 11, 2013 at 4:38 AM · Report this
Ms Sissou - So did Benjamin Franklin.

Dr Sean - What, the trend going back at least as far as Henry II isn't good enough for you? We don't really need to count all the notable men alive today with wives young enough to be their (grand)daughters, do we?
Posted by vennominon on January 11, 2013 at 5:10 AM · Report this
I dissagree. The issue isn't that she's grossed out that her mum likes younger men.

The issue is that parents should never EVER EVER hit on someone their children is or have ever been involved with. That not cool. Bizzarre Jerry Springer shit right there.
Posted by Moonmaid on January 11, 2013 at 5:39 AM · Report this
@ 17.....Meme: I don't think this work means what you think it means.
Posted by RNBSN on January 11, 2013 at 5:58 AM · Report this
The whole time I was reading this, I was thinking of the penguin of doom copypasta.

I hope to never meet this woman, and I also hope to pick up her mother at the bar.
Posted by OOF POOF on January 11, 2013 at 6:03 AM · Report this
Am I the only one thinking that the real rage being worked out here is that mom is more attractive to men than the LW is?
Posted by seeker6079 on January 11, 2013 at 6:09 AM · Report this
Megaera 34
@28 I was wondering the same thing myself. And wondering why LW has such outrage about her mother's behaviour, but can't see how amazingly unethical her own is in this regard.
Posted by Megaera on January 11, 2013 at 7:03 AM · Report this
Congratulations on finishing the book, Dan! Preordered!
Posted by dchari on January 11, 2013 at 7:35 AM · Report this
xjuan 36
Big fan, yeah. You might have read all of Dan's books (good for Dan), but you certainly haven't learned much. However, your mom hasn't been the best example of maturity for you, so that might explain it all. Just forget it and move on.
Posted by xjuan on January 11, 2013 at 7:49 AM · Report this
Boring question, which I just barely made it through. I gave up partway through the answer. I enjoy Dan's column well over 99 percent of the time, so I can forgive this one and that one a few weeks ago about how do I know when somebody loves me, or whatever it was. The answer had to do with something on the face...
Posted by Mike_in_Houston on January 11, 2013 at 8:02 AM · Report this
Young adult morality in America can be so tedious.
Posted by Timothy on January 11, 2013 at 9:26 AM · Report this
Puty 39
It's terrific that mom had lots of sex with pretty young men. Great for her! But that's not the point here. "Don't hit on your daughter's/son's exes"--and that includes FWB--is a good rule that parents should follow. It's not worth your kid's arguably irrational, definitely predictable and probably inevitable angry, hurt, betrayed and grossed-out response.

But this shouldn't be taken very seriously, either. Best advice is to forget it and move on. Okay, maybe tease mom a little for being ridiculous. But no big blow-ups.

And send Dan pics AND get the guy's permission for Dan to share them on Slog, please.
Posted by Puty on January 11, 2013 at 10:11 AM · Report this
It is exceptionally inappropriate for a mother or father to date or have physical relations with any of their kids friends. Just like it is the same for a kid to date or be physical with their parents friends. Older folks dating younger folks is just fine, so long as they are legal.

Going after your kids friends is a major boundary issue, and not far from Woody Allen, great film-maker, and notorious pederast. Remember when he married his wife's adopted daughter? And then he had the nerve to sign a letter to the court stating that Roman Polanski should not be deported to the US to serve his term for the drugging and raping of a 13 y/o. Off topic, yes, but those themes run together in my mind, because I know some idiot is going to defend Woody Allen, and for the record, I love his films, and hate his creepy as judgment.
Posted by scratchmaster joe on January 11, 2013 at 10:34 AM · Report this
@everyone who thinks parents shouldn't hit on their kids exes:

He was her brother's buddy and her FWB. I am not sure her mom knew that they were fuckbuddies.
I can assure you my parents would not have known if I had had sex with my brother's friend, esp. not at 18.

Posted by migrationist on January 11, 2013 at 11:02 AM · Report this
The dick former fwb saved an innocuous Facebook message for two years so he could show it to this girl if they ever hooked up again? "Hey sweetie, now that we're banging did you know your mom once texted me? Totally dull little 2 line note, but it could have gotten flirty in a few more rounds! How do you feeeeeel?"

I'm guessing maybe he remembered the angry-at-mom sex as being super hot?

Posted by IPJ on January 11, 2013 at 11:06 AM · Report this
@41: How about the broader rule that you don't hit on your kids' friends, for reasons of boundaries? This would go for divorced dads trying to hit up college daughter's roommates, too.

Posted by IPJ on January 11, 2013 at 11:09 AM · Report this
lolorhone 44
It's kind of gross for the mother to hit on the LW's semi-ex. But it is in no way a reason to gear up for a Battle Royale with Mommy involving evidence for the prosecution (Exhibit A: The Text!) and melodramatic ambush tactics. EVERYONE here needs to grow up.
Posted by lolorhone on January 11, 2013 at 11:14 AM · Report this
I'm with scratchmaster_joe on this one. I noted upthread that the letter reeks of anger at the mom; the more I look at the mom's conduct, though, there does seem to be a real element of deliberate rubbing of another woman's rhubarb in the mom's conduct. A "see, I'm hotter than you, even your bfs and friends want me", sort of thing, which is, yes, vulgar and creepy and a boundary issue of almost the worst sort.
Posted by seeker6079 on January 11, 2013 at 11:17 AM · Report this
psbirch 46
Or: Stop taking interpersonal communication cues from reality TV. It is not necessary to police the actions of others.

And as a corollary: Just because you disagree with someone or just because someone lies to you doesn't mean your reaction is necessary.
Posted by psbirch on January 11, 2013 at 11:25 AM · Report this
@28: "if it was unethical of Dan to accept the bribe."

Who gives a fuck? It stops with Dan. The problem is with the issuer, not the recipient.
Posted by oh no don't show me gorgeous bodies on January 11, 2013 at 12:27 PM · Report this
very bad homo 48
@33 said what I was thinking. The daughter is jealous of her sexy mom.
Posted by very bad homo on January 11, 2013 at 1:44 PM · Report this
sissoucat 49
Kind of a dick former FWB has graduated towards being a manipulative asshole. Keeping an innocuous text for two years, and disclosing it to the girl just after they've made out ? Manipulative genius. By the by, using any means necessary to make someone sever her links with her mother is a redflag.

Previously only moderately jealous daughter has unresolved issues with her oversharing hot mother.

The oversharing hot mother is fed up with the jealous daughter's jealousy (over nothing much, probably) and tries not to overshare too much those days, at the expense of the truth. Not the smartest move, but quite understandable.

So my advice to the daughter would be :
1) run far far away from the super hot manipulative asshole.
2) get yourself in therapy, and find a way to live peacefully your life without the shadow of Mom all over your sex life.
3) and don't ever knowingly date Mom's leftovers - which is exactly what super hot guy is at this point.

Posted by sissoucat on January 12, 2013 at 8:04 AM · Report this
The "Please send the pictures at your earliest convenience" line was hilarious. Good job Dan.
Posted by Learned Hand on January 13, 2013 at 5:29 PM · Report this

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