Saddlebacking As Birth Control

Comments

1
The linked story (oral sex leading to pregnancy) made my day.
2
anal!
3
Another quibble:
No husband is going to be moved and delighted knowing that he's the first into your V but your A has been getting pounded for 7+ years.

On second thought, don't listen to me. Tell him that special story on your wedding night, right before you give him that special gift.
4
I engage in anal sex because I LOVE it!
5
Sorry, honey. You're as non-virgin as me and just about everyone else around here, you just want to have a tiny, tiny high horse to get on.
6
I do think Dan has historically underestimated the appeal of *not getting pregnant* for doing everything-but-p-in-v. Not just because pregnancy is a big deal--though that's most of it--but because no one can look at you and know you have herpes. They can look at you and know you're pregnant and therefore you're The Sort Of Girl Who Has Sex.

But the letter writer completely lost me on "giving my husband a rare gift on our wedding night." Come on, is there any guy out there thinking "she's sucked off 94 different guys, had 27 of them up her butt, but her vaginal canal was preserved for my dick. (Even if a whole frat fingered her one night.) I feel special."

For the record, I really don't care if people don't have sex until their wedding night: lots of people write to SL after a partner revealed their kinks only after several years of marriage and one or more kids.
7
@3 Your comment made me laugh thinking about how that conversation would go... Thanks.
8
The hoops people jump through in order to overcome their cognitive dissonance to claim they're a virgin when they're clearly not is astounding.

That she even gives a shit whether she's a "virgin" or not tells me she:
1) Cares way too much about what other people think, and,
2) Is full of regrets but probably tells everyone she regrets nothing.
9
So, guys. The "I'll do everything but" virgin, a or b?

a) A girl who is careful with herself, responsible and serious, the sort you want to date with permanent commitment in the back of your mind.

b) A girl who will do anal.
10
The linked story is similar to the civil war woman inpregnated by a bullet that traveled through an unknown soldier's scrotum.

It's her Dr's white lie.
11
Also, she knows by the time she gets married it's very unlikely she'll have much of a hymen left, right? If she even had one to begin with. So the whole pain, bloody sheets thing to show to the aged crone morality committee thing is out. If she does have enough of one left to bleed, it hurts and the sex sucks, it also can hurt him to try to fuck through that. Not fun. And wouldn't a man be so much more excited to be the first to fuck her ass on her wedding night? Much more special gift, I'd think.
12
But all the guys who are fucking my ass tell me it's a great plan! They'd totally feel that way about my extremely questionable virginity gift! Amusing.
13
A rare gift, huh? Or you coulda been having plenty of PIV and saved your ass for him. *Shrug* I mean, what's the diff? Besides an excuse to be sanctimonious, that is?
14
Sex and fear truly fucks some people up. I mean past the most basic tenets of LOGIC. Anal sex has the word sex in it for a reason. Virginity is off the table for you now, LW. And all that means is you won't be a fumbling incompetent for your future husband. That's a much better gift, if not as rare.
15
Or, you know, condoms, or the pill. NAH.

NN, the kind of guy who would agree that an unpenetrated vagina is "a rare gift" is also the kind of guy who will in all likelihood want it from a woman who hasn't been touched sexually in any other way. Either he's going to see you as not-virginal (or probably, "soiled") as a whole, or he doesn't give a shit about your unicorn vagina in the first place.
16
I want to see a show of hands from the straight male readers here. Who here thinks it would be a gift of any kind to be the first guy to break a hymen? I wouldn't, not even if she was really a virgin. (Not that I'd wait that long - premarital sex, which tells you whether you and your partner are sexually compatible, ought to be mandatory before getting a marriage license.)

I wonder if this woman will continue to do just oral and anal after getting married? After all, who wants to get pregnant so soon after wedding? Or will contraception be acceptable once she's given her "gift" to her husband?

I call bullshit. This girl is doing this in order to "be a virgin" in her religion's eyes. Or in those of the people who surround her.
17
Damn, those Christians are into some kinky shit!
18
I actually kind of like this "anal isn't sex" thing they've got going. If it's not sex, then two men doing it shouldn't bother you, right, haters?

19
@16: I disagree with your last paragraph. It's completely believable to me that someone could want to be Pure and Not a Slut without invoking a god who has a strong opinion on the matter. The girls who are labeled sluts in high school are not envied, even if the people looking down on them are having just as much sex. It's a question of teeny tiny high horses, and how you can be special and more discerning but also hot and sexually satisfying.

20
This letter writer's brain is clearly a virgin.
21
I am disinclined to agree with the letter writer. She is not a virgin and has not been one for seven years. I do not doubt that the desire to not become pregnant is real or even her stated desire to share so something special with her future spouse that is their experience. But, the lack of mentioning the use of birth control to prevent pregnancy suggests that the letter writer is making her sexual choices in a way that she believes offers religious adherence to female purity. I hope that the letter writer's future spouse is someone that she has been consensually enjoying both oral and anal sex with, because if not her wedding bed will either be clothed in a lie or her being possible rejected even with her pristine vagina.
22
@19 - and you think the girls who do anal in high school aren't labeled sluts? HAHAHAHAHA!

I think it's interesting that she thinks her oral and anal experience means she is experienced enough to satisfy her husband, while never mentioning her own sexual satIsfaction. You know what's really hot? A woman who owns her entire sexuality, and has sex for her own pleasure and satisfaction, knows how to get herself off and gives good direction.

Sure, letting him fuck you in the ass is cool. But a lot less cool than you seem to think, given that whatever weird notions of purity he has likely don't give you credit for saving the magical vag when you've been sharing every other hole the lord gave you for the last decade.
23
I don't know about you guys, but I'm saving my left armpit for that special someone! A rare gift indeed!

...ok, ok... the only one left...sigh...no tiny horses for me, not even a tiny pony!
24
@16 I find the whole 'virginity as a gift' concept creepy as shit.

I certainly would not think less of a girl that was a virgin, nor more of her either, but I would be a bit turned off by the way someone like this letter writer must see sex.
25
i'm gifguring to get pregnit by aliens. i mean it's called the mothership for a reason right ?
26
The only way to fight bad girls who do anal are with good girls who do anal.
...yes, as a matter fact that WILL be my argument to every right-winger from now on thank you very much.
27
I'm a virgin and intend to die a virgin (vaginally at least).
28
All I have to say about this is that more slog posts should be accompanied by Garfunkel & Oates videos. Because they are awesome.
29
Assfucking for "virginity" became a huge fad when I was in undergrad. I started to suspect that the str8 guys preferred it, in fact.
30
Yes more G&O!!

If anal/oral is the only way to avoid pregnancy, then she must belong to a religion where artificial contraceptive is bad because it can prevent life from resulting from a sex act.

But those religions also forbid anal and oral sex, because those also "subvert" sex. The Catholic Church has some very detailed thought on the matter.

Bottom line is that theologically, anally, and orally, this chick is screwed. May as well add the vagina to the list.
31
One could easily get pregnant as the result of oral sex: 1. fellatio; 2. smooch; 3. cunnilngus. I'm sure it's happened many times. One can also get pregnant as a result of anal sex, because of a little spillage.
32
I must say that the phrase "pristine vagina" made my day.
Thanks Kim!
33
@ 19, let me ask you something. Do you believe that our society's common view of sexually active girls as "sluts" is rooted in historic Christian attitudes, or not?

Anyway, you misread my last paragraph, where I gave the option of a non-religious motive for her.
34
I dated a Catholic girl in college who would only do it that way for the same reason. I just made sure to not guffaw at the logic in her presence, and everything was golden.
35
"giving my husband a rare gift on our wedding night"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Best laugh I've had all day. Talk about following the letter and not the spirit of the law.

And no, sweetie pie, you aren't a virgin. And God thinks you are an idiot.
36
I for one, laud the practice of using anal sex for birth control. My wife and I did this for the years we were dating and married where we didn't want any kids. (Not *all* the time - we used condoms for vaginal sex)

But don't think it's going to prevent STDs. And don't think you're a virgin. Hell, you're not a virgin if you have *oral* sex. Get your head out of your ass.
37
@22: I think who's a slut in high school has a whole lot more to do with where she falls in the pecking order than what sex acts she performs with whom. But it is always possible to fall from good girl to slut status if you do A Thing wrong, and exactly what the Thing is can be mysterious and out of your control. (Flirted with Britney's cousin's former boyfriend, causing the powerful Britney who you didn't even realize had a connection to this guy to label you a slut. Or slept with a guy who bragged. Or didn't sleep with a guy who lied.)

@33: Well now you've changed the question. Are there any attitudes at all prevalent in American society now or in the past that don't have any connection on any level to historic Christian attitudes?

For those assuming she doesn't understand the concept of birth control: Everything-but virgins probably have a misleading idea of how reliable birth control is. In the other direction, so do the sort of people who post on Slog and elsewhere as though any birth control that is 90% effective in practice is actually 100% effective in practice and all unplanned pregnancies the result of a failure to even try. Basic math says that if the pill is 95% effective and 200 girls in your high school rely on it, then 10 of them will be dealing with unplanned pregnancies this year even though they used birth control. (If 2000 girls at your college rely on the pill, that's 100 unplanned pregnancies each year.) Checking Planned Parenthood's website, condoms, the diaphragm, and withdrawal all have an effectiveness rate around 80%. So if you and four friends rely on one of those, expect one unplanned pregnancy this year.

Birth control isn't a magical shield repelling all sperm via power-up mushrooms. It is a way to greatly reduce your chance of getting pregnant, but not a magical guarantee. Even when used perfectly.
38
@16/33, MattfromDenver: Straight guy here. If I'd married a virgin? Not sure how that could happen - I wouldn't buy a car without test driving it first and relationships are a lot more complicated (I'm not saying "test drive" in the sense of Do the parts fit? but Are we sexually compatible?, as you say).

Anyway, if somehow I had? It would ring the bell of that social meme a little bit for me, but I strongly suspect it is a much bigger deal for more traditional, less secure guys. In that they wouldn't fret about how they compare to past lovers of hers.

It would be a more of "a gift" if I was a virgin, too, on my wedding night and if we could be open about, "Not exactly sure how this goes, let's explore and tell each other what we want." Not a gift of her purity but I'd be less self-conscious about being inexperienced.

I concur with 19 - the LW might not believe in God, but still be caught up in society's values on that front. Especially in rural areas and small towns, the loudest teachers and students are going be those promoting "traditional values" - it lets you be a judgmental jerk and respectable.

And whatever we older folks knew of slut shaming, it now happens far more widely and faster due to texting and social media.
________________

BACK TO THE LW:

She stresses avoiding pregnancy. This must be a factor for many saddlebacking teens due to abstinence-based Sex ed. Any curriculum that says, "You must avoid P-in-V." is going to over-stress that condoms can fail, hormonal birth control isn't perfect, nor are IUDs. And it's not going to point out that Roe v. Wade guarantees access to a cure for pregnancy. The wording may suggest the reported 1-3% failure rates are per sex act, not per year. Etc. So her fears of pregnancy may well be over-blown if not fucked up. Just like her BFs.
39
vir*gin, noun, a person who has never had sexual intercourse.

sexual intercourse, noun, genital contact, especially the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.

Is this girl a virgin? Arguably, yes. The term "technical virgin" applies.

I can see why people would scoff if she just called herself "a virgin," but by using the word "technically," she's acknowledging that while she might meet the strict definition of "virgin," her life has not been consistent with the term's connotations of sexual innocence and sexual inexperience. "Technical virgin" is exactly what this girl is.

If Mr. Savage gets to develop his own definition of terms like "virgin" and "technical virgin," then so does she.
40
@ 37, I didn't change any question. You seem to have trouble comprehending what I write.

@ 39, the word in your definition "especially" doesn't mean "exclusively." Your comments treat the word "especially" as having that meaning. In other words, oral and anal are not excluded from the definition of "sexual intercourse." Which means that, no, not even technically is the LW a virgin. And means that, no, Dan did not "develop his own definition" of virgin.
41
Actually, I got those definitions from dictionary.com. I didn't make them myself.

By using words like "especially," the dictionary shows that the precise definition of "sexual intercourse" is a bit subjective. That's why I refer to the girl as "arguably" never having had sexual intercourse. I literally mean that reasonable arguments for "yes she has" and "no she hasn't" can be made. So yes, if we use the strictest existing definition of "sexual intercourse" to mean only penis-in-vagina sex, then the term "virgin" does technically apply to this girl. She's right to call herself a technical virgin.

Mr. Savage believes that anyone who's had sexual activity is a non-virgin, even people who've done oral sex and no other kind. He didn't get this from a dictionary; he worked this out on his own. So yes, he developed his own definition of the term. His definition serves his political beliefs and preferences: As shown in the columns and posts, he doesn't think that anal sex is the gay equivalent of hetero sex, but he does want the types of sex that gay people can engage in to be considered as important as hetero sexual intercourse. That means treating anal, oral, surrogate object (strap-ons et al.) and vaginal sex as all equally important. This is almost certainly why Mr. Savage believes that oral sex counts toward someone not being a virgin. I'm not 100% on his opinions on outercourse.
42
Hey, where's MY special gift? I didn't get a special gift! Goddamn it, I want my special gift!

I think she's got it backwards; her special gift is not going to be her tedious cluelessness about vaginal intercourse, but rather her well-practiced skills at oral and anal, which are going to come as quite a surprise if hubby thinks he's married a virgin.
43
It's probably less important whether people on this thread think that a girl's technical virginity is a better "special gift" than a sexually competent wedding night than whether the sort of person that this girl is likely to marry thinks so. If her BF is any example, then yes, he might well.
44
butt...butt...Danny said anal was 100% FOOLPROOL & SAFE!!!™
45
What do you say to such a special gift? "I've kept my vagina pure for you and only had guys fuck me in the ass." "Thank you?!?!?!"
46
just came to say that I would like to help those lovely, funny ladies stay "virgins", especially Ms Garfunkel, yum!

Also, If you've had your ass plowed you are not a virgin, sorry
47
I've got to wonder at which point a woman loses her virginity:
1) She kisses a guy on the lips
2) She kisses with tongue
3) Hands roam around over clothes
4) Hands roam around under clothes
5) She gives him a hand job
6) He fingers her vaginally
7) He sucks her breasts
8) He gives her cunnilingus
9) She gives him oral
10) They have anal sex
11) They have vaginal sex

Obviously, after 11 she's not a virgin. But the rest are pretty damn fluid.

The main thing is that young women (and in a different way, young men) are valued as adult or not, mature or not, "real" or not, good or not, depending on how much sexual experience they have. What perplexes me is to watch the slut-shaming needle swing from 'you're bad if you're not a virgin' over to 'you're bad if you are a virgin' for women. In either case, we're standing around judging women by their sexual experience, as though that's a valid indicator of their worth as a human being and sexual partner. The judgment of young men is VASTLY different and mainly based on performance rather than intrinsic value. I wish we'd get away from this valuation of women based on things the woman herself has little control of (your opinion of her sexuality or beauty, for instance) and more on things she DOES have control over (like what kind of sexual partner she is).
48
@47 - Yup, virginity is a pretty subjective, BS concept once you really start to think about it. So if this woman wants to think of herself as a virgin still, I guess that's her prerogative, even if many others disagree. There is no means of testing virginity, and everyone sets the bar at a different place, because virginity is not a thing which physically exists.
49
Come on, people: NN knows she's no virgin sexually speaking. She doesn't care about that, only having fun and avoiding pregnancy. Her husband, whenever she gets one, is going to get a very special and unique gift, no doubt, even if he knows about her past and has himself enjoyed some anal and oral with this girl prior to the wedding. Plus, he'll get a versatile woman who has learned to enjoy all her ways to getting and receiving pleasure. I'm sure he won't regret it (not this part, at least). Virgin? Yes, her vagina IS virgin. That's a treat, no doubt.
50
To me this is a sad, sad letter where the LW rushes to offer hurried yet contradictory reasons for not engaging in PIV while having everything but.

It's because she doesn't want to get pregnant. In that, I believe her (as the use of caps shows the level of her fear).

No, wait, it's because she wants to give her husband a rare gift on their wedding night. Uh, LW, unless you're confident of preventing pregnancy on that occasion, I'd think your default setting will still be anxious precisely because you don't have the confidence for PIV or sufficient knowledge of contraception, though a wedding ring will merely mean that any pregnancy won't be out of wedlock.

No, wait, it's because she believes she'll please her future husband with lots of fulfilling sex after all those years of practice. Ugh. Is she a member of the Stepford Wives' Junior Auxiliary? Note that nowhere has the LW stated that SHE enjoys the sex she is having which - to me - means she hasn't learnt the value of mutual reciprocity. Does GGG ring any bells for her? Probably just the sound of her clenched vaGGGina.
51
I just hope she doesn't end up not liking PIV because of all the anal & oral. Don't quite get the hatin' on her here, tho.
Screwing a pristine vagina, belonging to someone sexually experienced and (probably) GGG is no small gift to any sex-positive guy. I'm just hoping she stays clear of the misogynistic, double-standard-owning men out there.
I've never understood the need by men to have an 'unsoiled' female to marry, while they go about 'soiling' every woman they can get their dick into. Crazy.
52
It seems to me that anal sex isn't a good protection against a Santorum dribble-impregnation.
53
Ms F/Mr Out - I shall sort of combine the two of you and suggest that that's probably exactly what will happen; her future husband will have received that "special gift" so many times prior to the wedding that what will cause the rift between them is that he won't meet her expectations about the level of appreciation for it.
54
Ms Bird - Yes, it is instructive and occasionally amusing to see people pinning the tail on the various donkeys listed. I even have more of an impulse to agree with you about the shifting bar than to quibble over the nature of scorn applied to male virgins.

This letter is a bit short, and I've nothing at all against the practice by anyone with multiple partners (or the same partner at different stages) of reserving act 42 for partner/stage W. It just seems that one could, if uncharitably inclined, find this LW a little too far along the slippery slope of feeling entitled to have all cakes and be eaten by them too that seems worthy of Nellie Oleson.
55
A blast (no pun intended) from the past:

http://youtu.be/cG-6AP8DIOU

Dinosaur points if you remember seeing this on its original web site.
56
While "technical virgin" does apply to people who engage in alternative sex acts, I prefer the term "demivierge" (this is a real word in the dictionary!) for women who insist that they are retaining some kind of technical virginity despite being sexually active. Expanding that (for most people) transitional stage to 7 years is pretty impressive.
57
Dan, Dan, Dan. Once again, you fail to understand the distinction between virgin and extra-virgin. Just as extra-virgin olive oil is of a different quality than plain-old, regular virgin olive oil, extra-virgin virgins are better than plain-old virgins. Terry is indeed a virgin. He is just not up to the standards of EXTRA-virgin. (An extra-virgin's purity and innocence has not been violated in any orifice.)
58
Actually, "demivierge" is a woman who behaves in a sexually provocative way but doesn't stop being a virgin. If she's not a virgin, then she's not a demivierge.
59
@49: " Virgin? Yes, her vagina IS virgin. That's a treat, no doubt."

Really? Seems to me the "treat" will consist of blood and pain. Gee, honey, you shouldn't have.

If blood and pain aren't present, then how will the experience be any different than a non-virgin vagina, in which case what is special about it? Other than mentally, which is to say, catering to some misogynistic notions on the part of her asshole husband?
60
@59 Okay, let's try this one more time: Many people just like the idea of a vagina that no other penis has been in before. No, there's not much physiological difference, especially not if the woman has engaged in other types of sexual activity, but thousands of years of tradition don't just go away when we figure out how to mass-produce fat-free potato chips. You can think of it as a territorial primitive thing, but sex itself can be pretty primitive.

I realize that a lot of people on this thread think it's a dumb idea, but the LW isn't doing it for any of us. The sort of person that she's likely to marry is also likely to be the sort of person who'd care about something like this. It doesn't matter if any of us think opera tickets are a dumb gift; we're probably not the ones who are going to be sitting in her theater.
61
@57: If Terry is a virgin as defined by you, then all straight men are virgins (not EXTRA-virgins, but virgins). Why virginity as a state of being is so prized is beyond me. I was glad to get rid of mine and I've never looked back.
62
@60: Yes, I believe that's what I said, with my final sentence.

Regarding the mental game, however, there is still a certain level of basic logic lacking in the current case, which others have expounded on at length. a) the hypothetical guy who values an unused pussy is probably going to be unimpressed if it is paired with a thoroughly used ass, mouth, and everything else; b) I sure hope said hypothetical guy has an equally unspoiled dick, or he's a hypocrite as well as a misogynist and no, he doesn't get to claim even "technical" virginity if he's been using it in someone else's backdoor; c) maybe that's just my preference, but the very last thing I would want a woman to associate my dick with is blood and pain, nor would I consider it a "gift" to me, to have her bleeding, crying, and curled up in a fetal position. Sounds like a great way to ruin an evening.

No, she isn't doing it for any of us, but she did write in asking for an opinion. Surely she knows that includes the opportunity for people other than Dan to chime in.
63
If she does it, it's because she likes it and it feels good. For some girls, it feels better than the "normal" kind of sex. Sure, it's annoying to hear "technically I''m a virgin" but it's not MY life, and no one I would ever date would put a premium on virginity, technical or otherwise. Not my problem. Also, I don't see the need to invent an extensive sexual history like @6 does. It feels too much like slut shaming, and it only works as an insult because people truly believe a woman's "number" is inversely proportional to her worth as a person.
64
Reading the letter and the reply, I wondered about the hypothetical husband. How does he feel about this? What is their relationship? Do they meet in church, and after a chaste visit to the local cinema, driving home, she offers a blowjob? After swallowing that load, she offers her butt? That would, no doubt, make quite an impression on the studious Ichabod.

What if the studious Ichabod finds her mouth and/or butt so fascinating that he doesn't really care about this "gift" she values so highly?