AP, New York Times, NPR All Change Course on Chelsea Manning


Looks like the Times is responding to the outcry against Ramsey's article with a chat:

You mean Bradley Manning? Since, other than in his own complicated con or delusional ravings there is no person called Chelsea Manning I assume you do.

You can correct the error at your leisure.
Too bad The Seattle Times hates it when people give them money. The guy even not apologized for being a prick. What a fucking loser.
@2 I love the sound of your side losing.
But hey, if Ramsey is indeed of low caliber as a writer, you could offer him a job at your pathetic little rag. I often wonder, given that the combined IQ of your staff would make a good golf score, how you folks manage. He'd tone the place up for you, halfwit Constant.

Reality doesn't lose in the end. The tissue of lies, PC bullshit and delusional nonsense that makes up your worldview will fall of its own weight eventually.
@6 "Tissue of lies, bullshit, and delusional nonsense" is a wonderful description of your own attitudes.

You come on here, time and time again, and spout off the most unmitigated crap. Not your personal opinions regarding homosexual activity, to which you are entitled, but your alleged facts regarding human sexuality. You are woefully - and probably willfully - ignorant of the scientific consensus on things like homosexuality and gender dysphoria; and of the social reality of homosexual relationships and their impact - or lack thereof - on society and 'traditional' relationships.

In comment thread after comment thread you spout your nonsense about how marriage equality is an attack on straight marriage, or about how transgender people don't exist, or about how equal rights for gays and lesbians are actually special rights. And time and again you are shown to be wrong, only to slink away and pop up again in a new thread spouting the same old crap.

The sound you make when you do that? It is the sound of losing. It is the sound of the old order dying away. It is a sweet sound to all who support equality and the rights of all persons.

It is a sweet sound, but I won't miss it when it's gone.
"He" might be easy enough to pass off in a "news story", but interviews and panel discussions were making the NPR hosts sound so immediately ignorant.
BB, Ms Seattleblues is just having a hissy fit. Her delusions just keep slamming into the hard wall of reality and she can't figure out why. So she slams her head into the wall again and again hoping the pain will stop. She deserves our mocking pity.
@2, Hey, if believing that makes you feel better then hooray for you, but you sound like an ape. Even professional stopped clock Pat Robertson left you in the dust on this issue.


Feel free to evolve at your leisure.
Remember! A vagina, a uterus, and the ability to carry a baby to term DOESN'T make you a woman, but putting on a dress and a wig and declaring it so DOES!
@6: Hey SB have you told your nice liberal neighbors what you feel about gay and trans people yet? You know the ones wirh the teenage daughter you mistake for a scientist? Think they'd still speak to you if they knew about you turfing your lesbian tenants?
If your side is winning, why are you hiding your light from them?
Stranger staff: Do we have to see this insane anti-trans bigotry in the comments of every post that mentions a trans person, even if it's good news? Do we have to see anti-black bigotry in the comments of nearly every one of Charles' posts? Do something, please, ASAP.
@ 6 - ROFLMAO.... You're the guy who cites a child's reaction in the place of clinical diagnoses that have existed for 60 years. (And wants us to respect Russia's laws while you moon Washington's.)
Stranger staff: I don't give a rat's ass what anyone says here, but I don't like your inconsistent handling of the more trollish contributors to Slog.

Yes. We speak freely about politics, religion and yes the insistence the mentally ill people who make up the so called LGBT community is composed of.

No, I don't discuss my business with them, though mainly because the topic bores them.

And you missed the point. Their little girl of 12 knows more about human sexuality than all of you combined. She knows that the mentally ill person in her church is to be pitied, even though her parents never taught her that (nor I, for the obvious reason that discussions of human sexuality with other peoples children is not something I want to do.). She's home schooled so didn't learn the reaction at school. No, this is a child who instinctively knows wrong from right, as most kids do.

Science is what's been twisted to make sick healthy, perverse into wholesome, and wrong into right at the behest of a self selected minority which can't stomach the consequences of their behavior.

You're funny. But keep your chin up,looks aren't everything.
@16: A sheltered 12-year-old, whose only apparent social interactions outside her home-schooled bubble are at church - and a decidedly illiberal one, given that you feel comfortable there - has a confused reaction to someone who falls outside the standard norms of gender expression. What a surprise. And you think it is reasonable to accept this naïf's reaction as the appropriate one?

No doubt the girl would react similarly were she to encounter a person with dwarfism, or an amputation, or a large facial birthmark. Would that reaction also be correct?

Your holy book teaches, "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me." Wise counsel. You should heed it.

Believe that a Mr. Bradley Manning was tried and convicted? Well, that's public record, not my opinion.

I'll grant that I've got no firsthand knowledge of what gender Mr. Bradley Manning was born, but then he makes no claim contesting his masculine physical genitalia. So until proven otherwise that's enough to make him a man. If a kind. A sick and twisted or conman kind, but still male.

To the best of my knowledge no court disposition changing Mr. Bradley Manning to Mr. Chelsea Manning has happened, so the rat serving deserved time in prison is Mr. Bradley Manning.

But feel free to make up facts as you like. Just don't tell me my objectively provable ones are wrong.

I don't attend their church, a Unitarian Universalist one, but have visited to watch a sermon my friend gave during a pastoral vacation. They start each service with a pledge of allegiance to' gay rights.'. The pastor is a lesbian 'married' to her girlfriend. The girl is very social, but one parental duty is to shelter kids her age, to let them ease into teen roles at their own speed rather than some peer groups ideas.

Point is, you and your delusional fellow travelers had to work to paint reality as you prefer it rather than as it is. This child may well do so too, but her first reaction is the natural one.
@19, I didn't think my point was *that* subtle but you still managed to miss it. I guess ape was too generous.
@19, ROFLMAOPIMP.... you mean those "objectively provable facts" that you NEVER, EVER cite any proof for? I can't stop laughing...
@20 I kind of enjoy reading your comments, Seattleblues, as it gives me the same feeling watching that last endless series of GOP presidential primary debates gave me.
That reminds me, SB... Bearing false witness in your typical fashion is a sin in your religion. Do you belong to one of those sects where that doesn't matter?
@20: See, now you are just flat out lying. Lying, lying, lying. Pants on fire lying. Pathologically lying.

And all your lies, as is characteristic, serve to distract from the fact that you refuse to address points that refute you. I mean really, the (fake) type of (fake) church this (fake) adolescent attends is not relevant to my point. Let me restate the key part of it to you:
No doubt the girl would react similarly were she to encounter a person with dwarfism, or an amputation, or a large facial birthmark. Would that reaction also be correct?

I've even helpfully emphasized the question you are avoiding in your highly detailed (fake) description of this (fake) child savant.

Care to answer it?
@20, you aren't from Seattle as you tell us regularly. Get our town out of your name.
@fake BB
Whole bunch of parishioners, a building and a little girl all fake. They'll be devastated to hear it. Well, the building won't I guess.

Possibly. You're comparing chosen behavior to non chosen physical characteristics so it wouldn't matter, but possibly she would react with curiosity and pity to dwarfism et al as well.

Again, how this has a blind thing to do with a post op transsexual is any one's guess.....
@27: Okay, now here is where relying on a fake twelve-year-old to tell you how the world works gets you into difficulties.

Being trans is not "chosen behaviour." We know this because science (not a fake twelve-year-old) has told us. You know this because numerous links were provided to you way back here to support this. Links which you ignored, in favour of the unsophisticated reactions of a fake twelve-year-old.

So, the fact that an unsophisticated fake twelve-year-old - or a real one, for that matter - reacts negatively at first sight of a gender-nonconforming person is entirely related to how that same child would react to a physically-nonconforming person. It is an immature reaction based on fear and misunderstanding.

The kind of reaction you seem to embrace.

Oh, but I REALLY feel like I should be from Seattle. So even though my street address and primary business and social activities are eastside and even though I go into Seattle maybe three or four times a year I INSIST that you call me a Seattle-ite.

After all for you folks it isn't reality but individual perceptions of it that matter, right?
@29: Glad to see you are finally getting it.

If you want to say you are from Seattle, fill your boots. It doesn't affect anyone else one iota. Even if I think you are delusional, your claim to be from Seattle has zero impact on my life in any measurable way, shape, or form.

Much in the same way that Chelsea Manning's transition, and the choice of pronouns used to refer to her, have zero impact on your life.

Or the way that two men getting married has zero impact on your life.
Hey, SB, I asked you a question. Why are you afraid to answer it? Did I hit a nerve? Make your subconscious remind you that you're not in the right? What gives?
Hey sweetie, hows my baby girl doing? Seems you've been taking quite a beating since I last logged in. Don't worry baby your man is back.

YO, leave my woman alone, Seattleblues, is a good bitch, god fearing and knows her place as a woman. Granted she's a bit stupid but what do you expect from a woman. Yes she is being out smarted by a 12 yr old Unitarian girl who just nods, smiles and agrees with whatever my sweet little Seattleblues says. But ya know that sorta shit happens when your woman is stupid.

@27: As devastated as they would be if they knew who their neighbor really is? Think they'd still talk to you if they saw the sort of things you write here? Tell them about evicting your lesbian tenants SB. You have the courage of your convictions don't you?
I guarantee that their reaction will not be one of boredom.

When I've borne false witness I'll worry about, okay junior?
You can address me as "senior," as to you I am that in intellect, morality, and knowledge on any topic you care to name.

But you have an instance of false witness is right here on this very thread. Don't kid yourself that you haven't. It's not just between you and your god. It's my business as well.

Just don't tell me my objectively provable [facts] are wrong.

You bear false witness every time you describe homosexuality as a mental illness, in contravention to psychiatric medicine. You bear false witness when you label that as "objectively provable," especially when you NEVER cite any evidence to support your conclusion. (No, junior, your circular arguments based on your internal beliefs don't prove shit.)
BTW, SB, whatever you told your lesbian tenants when you declined to renew their lease was also false. I don't even need to know what you said, because I know you wouldn't have dared admit your true reason. Such a brave stance you took there, amirite?

Whatever junior.

My tenants were told all they needed to know, that I wouldn't be renewing their lease. My property, my business.

The facts provably demonstrated were about Mr. Bradley Manning and his improper use of pronouns. Which you'd know if you had the intellect of my coonhound.

An inability to understand and react rationally to reality, in the case of LGBT people sexual and biological realities, is mental illness whatever a bunch of PC idiots at the APA think.
@37: You didn't tell your tenants or your neighbors the real reason you terminated the lease because you are a spiteful coward, and in this case lying by omission. You booted them because they were lesbians and you were pissed off that marriage equality passed.

If you really think you were right to do it, why not tell them? Why lie to your tenants and neighbors by letting them believe that their sexual orientation and your anger at gays being allowed to marry in Washington had nothing to do with your actions?
If your actions were justified and a form of protest why hide them? What good does your gesture in support of "morality " do if you deliberately deceive people about it?

You are a coward. You are afraid of your neighbors knowing who and what you really are, and you are afraid of being caught breaking the law.

You are a small, spiteful, deceitful, arrogant, cowardly, stupid man.
If your pastor, neighbors or family could see the picture of your soul that you paint here every time you post, they would recoil in disgust.
And you know it. Which is why you lie to them. But we know you, and someday you'll slip, and they'll see the real you too.
@ 37, yeah. They didn't need to know your motive, did they? The one that would open you up to a big lawsuit. Lying by omission is still bearing false witness, and you're in trouble with your savior until you repent. (h/t to Lissa for that astute observation.)

As far as Manning in concerned, the facts as determined by at least 60 years of science is that gender identity and assignment issues are real medical problems for a small number of people. The use of pronouns is, at best, a matter of opinion. I'd ask you to try to prove that it isn't, if you hadn't failed already.

And you have no basis for either making a clinical judgment of what makes a person homosexual (you haven't studied it clinically) or for assessing whether politics is involved at all (which would require actual scientific proof, all of which is against your position).
@37: I still can't get over how you think you're more qualified than the APA's entire membership to define what is and isn't a mental illness. Sometimes the experts are right, generally because they've spent decades studying their fields of expertise.

I'd also like to remind you of your repeated statements that anti-discrimination and hate crime laws give minorities special rights, that sexual orientation doesn't exist, that transsexuals aren't real, and that the current condition satisfies marriage equality but allowing same-sex marriage would result in inequality. You're no paragon of truthfulness.