Okay, okay, that's not what the whole interview is aboutāit's also about Seinfeld! Asked about popular entertainment, Scalia says: "I loved Seinfeld. In fact, I got some CDs of Seinfeld." But it's the Devil stuff I can't get out of my head. Just imagine being Jennifer Senior, conducting this interview, trying to ask a question about Scalia's drafting process, when Scalia interrupts and leans in and starts stage-whispering about the Devil. Here's the lead up:
You believe in heaven and hell?
Oh, of course I do. Donāt you believe in heaven and hell?No.
Oh, my.Does that mean Iām not going?
[Laughing.] Unfortunately not!Wait, to heaven or hell?
It doesnāt mean youāre not going to hell, just because you donāt believe in it. Thatās Catholic doctrine! Everyone is going one place or the other.But you donāt have to be a Catholic to get into heaven? Or believe in it?
Of course not!Oh. So you donāt know where Iām going. Thank God.
I donāt know where youāre going. I donāt even know whether Judas Iscariot is in hell. I mean, thatās what the pope meant when he said, āWho am I to judge?ā He may have recanted and had severe penance just before he died. Who knows?Can we talk about your drafting processā
[Leans in, stage-whispers.] I even believe in the Devil.You do?
Of course! Yeah, heās a real person. Hey, cāmon, thatās standard Catholic doctrine! Every Catholic believes that.Every Catholic believes this? Thereās a wide variety of Catholics out thereā¦
If you are faithful to Catholic dogma, that is certainly a large part of it.Have you seen evidence of the Devil lately?
You know, it is curious. In the Gospels, the Devil is doing all sorts of things. Heās making pigs run off cliffs, heās possessing people and whatnot. And that doesnāt happen very much anymore.
The interviewer clarifies that Scalia thinks the reason the Devil has stopped possessing people and making pigs run off cliffs is because the Devil has gotten "wilier." Then she asks:
Isnāt it terribly frightening to believe in the Devil?
Youāre looking at me as though Iām weird. My God! Are you so out of touch with most of America, most of which believes in the Devil? I mean, Jesus Christ believed in the Devil! Itās in the Gospels! You travel in circles that are so, so removed from mainstream America that you are appalled that anybody would believe in the Devil! Most of mankind has believed in the Devil, for all of history. Many more intelligent people than you or me have believed in the Devil.I hope you werenāt sensing contempt from me. It wasnāt your belief that surprised me so much as how boldly you expressed it.
I was offended by that. I really was.
Then they move on to rabbit hunting, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, dinner parties, John Paul Stevens, law schools, heroic decisions (his most "heroic" decision was not recusing himself from a case involving his friend Dick Cheney), and whether Scalia will know when he's losing it ("Oh, Iāll know"). You ought to read the whole thing.