Click here to listen.

On September 3, Paul McCarthy and Richard Jackson flew up from LA to give what turned out to be a hilarious and historic talk at Seattle Art Museum—but a few hours before that, they sat down in a brightly lit conference room upstairs at the museum for a private conversation with a tape recorder and me.

McCarthy starts right in with a story about his liquid bodily functions, which seems right enough.

This is Paul McCarthy in a performance, but in real life, his hands are pretty much that big. Yup. Really.

And the writeup of the later talk—again, basically a classic—is here.