I just hope the suspect isn't wearing a uniform of some kind!

you tell me when shots aren't being fired at 23rd and union, and then that will be news.

THAY WERE BLANKS

the psychic police shulda known this! those pigs!

@ 2 ftw!

Let me guess...not to be all racist and everything...

Anyone want to "guess" the race, approximate age, and cause for this most recent shooting?

What's the over/under for black, approx 17-23 years of age, and drugs/gangs being the named cause?

I've got $50. Who can do better?

Why doesn't SPD just do a continuous back and forth up and down 23rd and/or circle the 4 block area of that intersection? Why isn't there a pair of beat cops on bicycles who only should patrol that area?

I heard nothin'

@4: Neighborhood Service Center, 3 squad cars at all hours. Try again.

@4: You do know that "spade" is a racist term, don't you?

@7: Yeah, I think @4 knew what he was doing there.

So...do gang wars only get official (public) recognition in retrospect?

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please don't click on #10, it froze my browser.

I know this isn't the right story, but does anyone else have T-Mobile? Is your phone working? Cus mine ain't, and like every good seattle hipster I don't have a land line to call t-mobile and tell them something's fucked up. Just trying to figure out if it's just me, or everyone.

"There also appears to be a major police incident near Rainier and Letitia—I'm told there are about 10 squad cars on scene—but the two events may be unrelated."

Well, considering that the those two areas are about four miles apart, I wouldn't be surprised.

@12, it's just you.

Spade is a racist term? What shall I call that garden tool now and how do I refer to the Ace of Spades in the card deck? And when can we get into the Matrix and slowly dodge those bullets fired by White girls ages 52-65! STOP WHITE GIRLS NOW!

somenody nuke post #19 stat.

@12: yeppers t-mobile is fricking dead. A major tower went out and they don't know when it'll be back online. They suggested turning off your phone and removing the battery and then turning it back on every once in a while to reset it...but when I did I got an "unregistered SIM" message. I've been dead since about 7:45.

that's #10 that needs to be nuked

thanks 16!

- 12

Yeah my T-Mobile is dead too.

I was at the post office at 6 and a couple of young black guys walked by. One seemed kind of determined, like he had a plan and told the other one to just "Wait, no matter what happens". I just figured it was the usual banter, posturing. But I decided to snap out of my haze and realized I would be a little scared of this guy if I saw him on a quieter street. He just seemed angry. I wonder if its related.

Oooo! I am now preparing to eat my hat, with a side helping of crow (I think I got my cliches right there). They apprehended at least one of the "perps" (Isn't that what the kids are calling them these days?) at Rainier and Letitia.

Question: Should I plate it on Franciscan or Metlox, and what would be a good wine pairing?

Wheelin' 23rd we saw nuthin but thugs
The girlies was to skinny from smokin all them drugs
Cus the rock man got em and there butts just drop
The freaks look depressed because the Benz wont stop
At 23rd and Union the driver broke left
Kevin shouted Broadway it's time to get def



I absolutely love it whenever 23rd & union ever get mentioned.

Girlfriend's t-mobile phone also dead tonight. Also, re shot fired: duh.

Another solid reason gentrification can't happen fast enough in the CD, orfor that matter into northern Pierce county.

Maybe the Sonics leaving was a blessing in disguise to further discourage all the gang bangin' thugg'n brothas to leave King county.

Yep in another 10 years, we'll have priced all them wanna be's out of Seattle for good hopefully!

I've been on my t-mobile cell since 11pm and it's still working fine. I'm in Belltown.

You are all fully aware that this is happening because the school district is letting Twilight Exit open.

can we just light the entire length of 23rd on fire please? or cover it in shit? maybe have the asphalt replaced with molten lava? how about lining the middle with a long mirror that will get the asshole gangbangers on each side confused into shooting themselves somehow?

ps-no joke, but MS13 has totally infiltrated Ballard.
again, not kidding: MS13. in Ballard.

what the holy hell is going on?

and please dont reply with bitchy little comments about how this is a big city, etc....i know it is. and I know that gang activity in a big city is normal.

but again....fucking MS13 is in Ballard. if that kind of organization has representation in Ballard, think about what else must be going on in this city.

sorry...I mean "Happy New Year!"

@12. There was a major outage of T-Mobile in WA/OR/UT down to AZ on the evening of 1-2. It's fixed now. When it was going you could either have full bars but be unable to make calls or you could have no bars at all. Happened between 9 pm and whenever (went to bed at 10 and it still was out.)

Oye, callate la boca veinte siete.
Ya conocimos tu hogar y los de tus hermanas y padres, fijate, y no diga mas!

Economic frustrations.
As long as CRIMINAL IMMORAL billionaires like Madoff and Wolfowitz get slapped (tickled) on the wrist, expect more and more and more and more trouble with the have-nots.

Joke all ya want, kiddies, for those of us who live only blocks from 23rd & Union, it's not just another thing to kid around about.

Glad I took a cab home last nite.

how did you fix your computer? I stupidly clicked on #10.
please help.

@31, hear hear. And good ol' Mayor Half-Dime and his patronage plan to reduce youth violence aren't helping either.

@26, seriously, we need a lot more businesses like them in the neighborhood. More foot traffic would sure help.

@24, I would seriously doubt (on the chance you're being serious) that there's any cx between the Sonics and the folks who did the shooting and got shot. The kid who got shot at Garfield (Quincy) still has relatives in the neighborhood - I don't think they're going anywhere, and they've been lhere onger than I have.

Hey Jonah, thanks for covering the story. The dailies don't have the time (or staff) for it.

The CD is outraged (yawn). Again.

SaraD, it was on komonews dot com and I heard more updates on KIRO Radio before I went to bed last night, but I agree; the SLOG was first.

@31 Absolutely
@34 I agree, let them open in the new space!

Great. Can't wait to see the new little splotches of paint where SPD has marked shell casings in front of my bus stop.

I heard that from 20th last night and was on my way home down union to MLK when It happened. Good thing I was a few minutes late for that!

All you hipsters, burners, homoz, and wannabes should embrace all this extra "diversity" that the thugz and bangers bring to your wonderful slice of Seattle. Thanks for continuing to promote diversity!

The rest of us realistic folks will continue living in our decidedly safer ex-urbs and outlying expensive communities immune from your urban decay that you insist as it gets more denser will be wonderful for the rest of us to subscribe to.

Density = crime.

Live it. Learn it. Embrace it.

Everytime I see ECB or some other whiner gush about the benefits of light rail, busses, or high density living, all us haves see is an excuse for the whiners to live cheaper in a more crowded hood like the CD, thereby increasing the likelihood of living near a crime scene such as the one that (again) played out last night in your beloved slum neighborhood.

Thanks for doing your part to keep my neighborhood safer by supporting policies that keep your neighborhood affordable to these thugz, and thereby out of my life.

Celebrate DiverSHITTY!!!

ha! @39 i think i actually laughed!

where are the safe exurbs again? burien? seatac? federal way? auburn? i tell you, i've yet to be accosted in seattle... but des moines? federal way? kent? i have in all three of those cities of less populated virtue.

@41 ahh exactly my point grasshopper.

Note those all have become exactly the types of cheaper refuges that the early Seattle migrants have all fled to as Seattle has become increasingly pricier.

Lets face it. The crime from the lower classes follows them whereever they decide to move to next. All the places you mention are exactly where Seattle gentrification is pushing the exiles.

The safe exurbs exists where there is little cheap downtown property for the thugz to congregate. Let's use Redmond, Issaquah, Kirkland or even Bellevue as prime examples. In each of those locations they are few if any places "downtown" for thugz to hang and represent. Those places also coincidentally have very low non Caucasian, Indian or Asian populations. (Read there are few blacks and hispanics). Hmmmm coincidence? You think?

Because there are few cheap places for them to live, they don't socialize or recreate in the local downtowns of those suburbs. Fact.

Compare that with any of the locales you mention. Let's take Kent as an example. How much cheap rent, "urban downtown" terrain exists for them to claim their territory on?

Thanks for proving my point.

Once again hipsters. We "haves" salute you.

Keep on keepin' on and earning those low(er) wages to keep the nostalgia alive.

@39: While I understand where you're coming from, if you haven't spent time living in a neighborhood like this, you have no idea how many factors play into creating gang activity and violent crime - and it's not just population density.

I grew up on the east side of the lake, with its lower violent crime rates and higher incidences of heavy drug use by teens (you know, the stuff the trust fund babies can afford or find in their parents' medicine cabinets). I then lived in denser, yet safe, north/west end neighborhoods like Northgate and Ballard (where you still get accosted by pushy homeless people, but don't see black buys with guns or white girls giving head while on meth). I'm currently living in the just-as-dense-as-Northgate neighborhood of Rainier Beach (where I don't feel safe walking the street at night) and see that density is the least of the neighborhood's issues. Lower taxes (and, subsequently, less money for the city to spend on the neighborhood), a lack of media attention, and a fracturing of each individual neighborhood - between gentrified areas and the working, or non-working, poor - are just a few of the things that have contributed to the crime rate in this area.

We need to take a look at the whole picture and consider all of the potential factors before crawling back under our thousand-count thread sheets and hiding from the problem.

**thousand thread count sheets

I thought I'd correct myself before anyone side-tracked the conversation by pointing out my error.

#26: the future Twilight Exit location is about the same distance from 23rd and Union as the current one (still open at Denny & Madison)

Ahhh Jen.

I know all about that. This issue as I see it has to do with the very violent crime of shots being fired, or any other type of random violence that the thugz perpetuate. Comparing murders, stabbings, and shootings to rich kids getting high is ridiculous. Random bullets have more likelihood of making an area a slum vs a few rich kids finding a high. Let's keep this on track as you said.

I have indeed spent time living in a neighborhood like that. I still have friends in the area and see the continuing effects the thugz are having.

I never said it was strictly density that is the cause of the problem. However it is the mentality of allowing/forcing subsidized housing and/or those who are pushing for including "affordable" housing in all new condo projects as contributing to this issue. Until the thugz are forced into Pierce county, we'll continue to see this issue in Seattle proper.

All the issues you listed in your post have little to do with the root cause of the issue. Lower taxes are the results of all the problems in those neighborhoods. The tax base will return once the scum is gone. Less money for the neighborhood? Huh? Tell me what "extra" money in my neighborhood goes towards that keeps my current fellow neighbors from committing crimes? Nothing. It has no correlation to their propensity to be decent fellow human neighbors. Lack of media attention? So I need the media to alert me to their plight? For what purpose? Pity? I had noone to "help" me get to where I am, save good parents with little money. Why should anyone have to give what they scratched out to someone who continually has a hand out, yet does nothing long term to get out of their situation? The answer is that some of us truly struggled to make our situation better, didn't give up when facing a hurdle and eventually climbed out. Other simply keep putting their hand out.

Who said I'm hiding from any problem under the sheets? That is your implication, yet is founded on nothing. Nice attempt at a stereotype. Rather, I refuse to hide and will stand up to inform the idiots out there who continue to espouse political positions that have no future.

If you feel unsafe in your Rainier Beach neighborhood, you should be honestly asking yourself the real answers behind the bullshit. What contributes to your feeling that way? Is it white folks, indian folks or asian folks who are inherently honest and decent? Or is there some deep dark secret as to where the true source of the issue lies.

Yes indeed Jen we need to take a look at the whole picture and consider all of the potential factors as to why our society is so fucked up and Politcally Correct that we can't honestly engage in true discourse to get at the real root of the issue(s). Instead we have pathetic liberal hipsters who insist on diluting the issue with their political correct diversity mantra.

And so it continues...

You all tired of the violence from a certain segment of the population yet?

Density = crime? I lived in Tokyo. 17 million stuffed in like gerbils and no one goin' about spraying bullets there. So safe, you see 8 yr olds on the trains and buses. They even have wannabe rappers, but last time I was there, I saw one giving up a seat on the train to an old person.

"Why doesn't SPD just do a continuous back and forth up and down 23rd and/or circle the 4 block area of that intersection?"

Cuz then the ACLU and NAACP will be complainin' about profiling. I say, instead, let them kill each other off and save tax payers money.

Best cure for gang bangers? Gentrification. Bring it on!

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If guns were gone, citizens would have to attack each other with knives, baseball bats, pit bulls and slingshots.

a big hearty thanks. your solution is what then? sure, if you live in a place where you are able to keep low income folks out, you will have a different kind of crime. how nice for you! just push the problem to someone else!

an equitable system has to have a place for the low income to live. middle-class and rich folks seem to like to isolate themselves, let them live somewhere else... the "city", or the where there is "density". you created the extra tax burned by now sharing what should be all our responsibility. so you don't have a homeless shelter, more money for your suburban park and library. bravo! you are the lords, and they are the serfs! what a utopia you envision.

oh, and you've got a little racism showing there. i think you can do a better job of covering that up.

that should be: ...extra tax burden by not sharing...

ah!

and i'd just like to add a little more: good job at not taking advantage of the benefits of being white.... or of growing up white, or by ever living in a safe neighborhood. i'm not sure how you were able to do it, but you did! your live is exactly like that of someone raised in a lower class neighborhood, attending a school with a sad budget, being discriminated against for the color of your skin... you somehow had that experience! and though i might disagree with your views as they are posted here, i did want to thank you for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps even though you had all that against you!

@51 i would like to clarify something. there are advantages to being white for the average white american whether they realize it or not. this has nothing to do with what you've done, but rather where you were born and to whom. some of those advantages are shared by middle-class or wealthy minorities, to be sure. which actually demonstrates that it is not as much a race issue as some people would like it to be, but is more or one than others are willing to recognize.

"there are advantages to being white for the average white american whether they realize it or not."

WHat advantages are you talking about? Knowing how to put a rubber on my c**k and not having babies you can't support? Staying in a stable marriage? Not spreading my seed around the ho's and refusing to be a good father? Knowing that hard and work and studying gets you ahead in life? Not spending all my money on rims for the Escalade but instead investing in my kids education?

This isn't an 'advantage'. This is common sense. All my black, white, Asian and latino friends I have here north of the ship canal know about common sense, it's why they can afford to live here and avoid the ghetto trash.

"if you live in a place where you are able to keep low income folks out"

If the low income folks work hard, save, get a good education, they, too, can afford to live here north of the ship canal. No one's keeping them out but themselves. Take some responsibility for your failures in live and stop blaming others.

Give the CD another 10 years of gentrification and I can guarantee the gang problem will be solved there.

Knowing how to put a rubber on my c**k and not having babies you can't support?

why can't i support your inexistent babies? i mean, i have a good job.

"failures in life"

Need to check my own spelling and grammar!

here are the advantages to being white that you list (certainly not the advantages i was thinking of):

1) Knowing how to put a rubber on my c**k and not having babies you can't support?

2) Staying in a stable marriage?

3) Not spreading my seed around the ho's and refusing to be a good father?

4) Knowing that hard and work and studying gets you ahead in life?

5) Not spending all my money on rims for the Escalade but instead investing in my kids education?

which you define as common sense.

well, other than the fact that that is a hilarious bunch of stereotypes of people, let's take that at face value. you are saying whites have the advantage of common sense. i'm not sure how that is not considered racist, but it mustn't, as you have non-white friends, of course. you then write,

"All my black, white, Asian and latino friends I have here north of the ship canal know about common sense, it's why they can afford to live here and avoid the ghetto trash."

if this is true, these black, asian and latino friends of yours have someone also participated in the advantages of being white, of having common sense. if this is true, then common sense is not an advantage of being white.

but would cause your earlier statements to be true then?

if it's not that "common sense" comes from being white, where does it come from then? could it possibly come from something else? from your neighborhood? your education? your surroundings? your immediate culture?

or you tell me, where do your stereotypes come from?

and before you trot out the exceptions to the rule, those who did make it out of the ghetto, please remember that in my world, i accept exceptions. yours is the world where one race has the advantage of common sense.

It sounds like "a big hearty thanks" is just jealous he can't afford Madonna or Leschi.

That's OK buddy. Eastgate is nice also. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Flag @48 please.

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The problem with all the random gunfire at 23rd and Union is that those who fire the guns mostly like don't live in that area. They probably live more closer to Rainier Valley than in the Central District. So no matter how gentrified that area of the Central District becomes, it'll always be the people who come in from outside that area of the Central District who commit the crimes.

In other words, 23rd and Union is a symbolic place for crime to happen no matter what happens. The worst thing that's ever happened at that corner since I moved here 12 years ago was the shooting at the Philly Cheese Steak restaurant almost a year ago.

You can't buy a house in that neighborhood for less than 400K. And it has no more density than Fremont, Ravenna, or Wallingford. All of the people I know who live there are young profesionals who want to live close to downtown, capitol hill, international district, etc. and raise their kids in a neighborhood that is the most ethnically diverse in the city as opposed to the applebee's that is the north side.

" that is the most ethnically diverse in the city"

Great, but seems in this case 'diverse' means you'll need to get the kiddies bullet proof vests.

Applebees in Fremont or Wallingford? MAybe you should come up here some time and show us? Leave the bullet proof vests at home too, you can walk the streets here without fear of 'ethnically diverse' gunfire.

Gee Wally, err I mean Homey-

I live a block away from that intersection and feel less threatened (read unconcerned) than when I am in DC, NYC, LA, Chicago, and so on, and far less than compared to traveling abroad. If you are uncomfortable in this area then you might want to stick to Mayberry, but don't be offended when your comments hyping the "scary corner" get laughed at as if you are a rube. I'm not hating, I'm just saying.