Comments

1
Who's playing tonight?
2
this is the guy that was doing the show tonight:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus…

thank him for bringing this to us :D
3
sssssshocking
4
Fatal Luciano just got out of jail. These kids watched Scarface too many times and too many 50 Cent videos.
5
There's been all kinds of shootings lately. If the cops don't think it's worth the time to check out all the "hip hop nights", then there must not be anything to it. Or Chop Suey can cancel these shows altogether.
6
Looks like it's time to add Chop Suey to my list of places to not go to unless I'm looking for a bullet injection, Southcenter Mall and the Baltic Room were in need of a new friend anyhow.
7
dont pull people's names that have nothing to do with this, Fatal Lucciauno's performance was long over when this happened
8
As someone who was at the show, you cannot blame this on local hip hop. Music doesn't make people shoot eachother. People shoot people.

The real problem is the shooter. There was no reason for this to ever have happened.
9
Right. People are so quick to blame hip hop. Do y'all actually ever get out to a hip hop show? Seattle has a super peaceful one love hip hop scene. Music doesn't make people kill each other.
10
"he'd been urged to cancel the show because of the possibility of a gang related conflict"
sounds like this was directly related to the music being performed
11
speaking as someone who is visibly queer that happened to walk by that place tonight, i can say that i was harassed walking by that club. i didn't do anything to bring it on, but it was made explicitly clear that i was a faggot and was not welcome near there.
12
that's a stretch. do you think the shooting at folklife last summer was related to the folk music being played there?
13
Sounds pretty local hip hop related to me, when's the last time a dude got killed at a Shins show?

I do realize I'm making broad generalizations here so I'll be sure to check out a local hip hop show for myself when my Flack Jacket arrives from Amazon.
14
Your point being? 3 people got shot, why are you trying to make this about you? GTFOH
15
that was for #11
16
folklife was not held within a club
17
i meant @10 is a stretch not @11
18
My sympathies for victims. What is it about the new years time of year that brings out people killing people. Last year was the Harps murder and now we're three for three of shootings on each day of the new year. Maybe Tim Eyeman should start an initiative to ban new years
19
@16. so you think clubs are the problem not the music?
20
This isn't about local hip hop in general, but it is about these particular groups and the promoter, and their glorification of gangsterism. They are little punks emulating some supposed golden age of hip hop and gangs. It's be a pathetic joke if people weren't dying over it. Instead it's just pathetic.
21
They tend to attract a lifestyle of violence and barbarism. It is unfortunate.
22
"speaking as someone who is visibly queer that happened to walk by that place tonight, i can say that i was harassed walking by that club. i didn't do anything to bring it on, but it was made explicitly clear that i was a faggot and was not welcome near there."

Sounds like Hip Hop to me.

"Looks like it's time to add Chop Suey to my list of places to not go to unless I'm looking for a bullet injection, Southcenter Mall and the Baltic Room were in need of a new friend anyhow."

The problem here is the nights, not the venues. I predict we'll hear the War Room getting set off next.
23
"This isn't about local hip hop in general, but it is about these particular groups and the promoter, and their glorification of gangsterism. They are little punks emulating some supposed golden age of hip hop and gangs. It's be a pathetic joke if people weren't dying over it. Instead it's just pathetic."

You're right, I apologize. Gangster trash doesn't equal all of hiphop. These nights are shit and do bring around a shit audience.
24
Its just like how people blame our NØrwegian Black Metal musik for all the church burnings and cannibalisms just because we sing songs about burning churches and eating people and because our bass player got arrested outside a church with a can of gasoline and a gnawed on human foot in backpack. People are sso prejudissed against musik.
25
Hip hop seems to attract these types of jackasses.
26
It's not the music that is the problem. It's the PEOPLE who ATTEND that are the problem.

How should the police handle it? I do not know.

But, don't blame the music itself.

I listen to 50 Cent sometimes because he is catchy, but I am not a gangbanger. But, 50 Cent and musicians of his type, who are basically gangster rappers, are very popular with gangbangers.

Also, not all hip-hop/rap is the same. When was the last time someone got shot at a Common or a Blue Scholars show?
27
you gonna blame the capitol hill massacre at the rave on the music?

you gonna blame dimebag's death on stage on his music?

you gonna blame the slaughter in carnation last year on christmas?

you gonna blame the one this year in cali on christmas too?

people need to take responsibility for themselves and their own actions, stop making someTHING responsible instead of someone

I will say that the security at certain venues in this town needs to be stepped up, pat downs, metal detectors/wands, make the place safer pro actively
28
A tragedy-I wish the best for the people hurt. It does seem that for whatever reason there are an unusual number of people making hip hop music and people who go to hip hop shows (across the whole genre, not necessarily in seattle) that use violence ans guns and killing to solve problems or whatever. I don't see the same thing associated with other styles of music. That doesn't mean that hip hop music causes the violence but does mean that hip hop shows become a marker for an increased chance of violence.
29
Jesus christ how do you idiots not get it? If a person has such little will power that he lets music control his life, he was bound to do some foul shit anyway, even if he listened to soft, contemporary rock. Charles Manson used The Beatles to justify his crimes.
30
The venues have complete control over who gets to play there. If they decide to host shows featuring performers who come with rumors of violent gang conflict, their own personal security staff, and ultimately, dead bodies; then they should be held accountable for that by having people rightfully associate that particular venue with getting shot.
31
@25: That is the most ignorant shit I've ever heard.
32
I love it how people think it's ok to crack jokes when there are folks reading and responding to this right now who know people who are fighting for their life. Do you see how trivial this shit is? I know it's best to remove emotion from the equation, but there is some serious disrespect flying around on here. That's the beauty of these comment sections though.
33
@30: That's like saying paying taxes to fund the Iraq war makes each member personally responsible for everyone who dies over there. NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE BUT THE SHOOTER, WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO GRASP?
34
@31 from 25: It's the truth!
35
@33: That analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

As far as responsibility how about the venue and promoter who, when told there would be violence at the show they scheduled said "lol ok whatever" and kept on counting money at the door?
36
Of course someone was responsible, the people who contributed to the gang activity that this article points to as a possible issue. Many hip-hop performers promote this gang activity, so therefore they should be held responsible. If some certain show or promoter is going to attract violence to a venue, it is stupid to let them perform regardless of their ability.
37
Considering the police crackdown on Pike/Pine nightclubs - and especially Chop Suey - I would think that security at these clubs should be better than its ever benn. Given the crackdowns any club that hasn't improved their security is dumb. Unfortunately for Chop Suey, now that gunfire and a death has happened there, It's likely the Mayor will oppose their liquor license and that'll be it.
38
"If some certain show or promoter is going to attract violence to a venue, it is stupid to let them perform regardless of their ability."

Yep, this is probably going to turn out like all the Sugar violence.
39
@35: I doubt anyone was saying "lol ok whatever" except for your stereotyping ass. If you're going to put blame on someone not involved over rumors, then there's really nothing I can say to convince you. You act like you have a crystal ball to violent acts committed by 3rd parties.

There is a chance of you being shot, run over, robbed, or all of the above just by going outside. Are you going to swear off going outside?
40
@33 absolving the people who convinced the shooter to shoot is very irresponsible and does not deal with the core issue, which is that gangs are self-perpetuating and only dissolve when there is no reason for them to exist, ergo clubs should be more responsible about allowing a show to go on when violence is a possibility.
41
@39 I would not go outside if someone called me and told me and tipped me off that someone would shoot me if I stepped out my door. I would wait a while first, call the cops, etc.
42
Violence is always a possibility. Anywhere. Anytime.
43
@39 I won't swear off going outside, but I will swear off going inside Southcenter Mall or Chop Suey on hip hop night.
44
@40: You're telling me the club told him to shoot? Management phoned up and said "Please shoot my club up"?
45
@41 That situation is much different than if you are a promoter or venue owner who was warned that violence might occur at your show. Imagine if you cancelled the show and 400 or 500 people showed up to find out the show was cancelled. Not a good scenario. Neither situation would be good to be in.
46
@44 the club should have boycotted the promoter since there was a chance of gang activity.
47
Its just unfortunate. Nothing needs to be done. Nothing needs to change. I feel for the people that got hurt. Truth is this stuff cannot be prevented. 9 percent unemployment got people fighting harder for scarce resources.
48
@45 you assume it was a last minute tip-off, I do not. From the article it sounds like there was at least time for one of the performers to arrange security for themselves.
49
My point is that even if you cancelled, you're just delaying the inevitable. There is always some sort of personal grudge that someone somewhere has, and all they need is to be is unstable enough to pull out a gun. If this hadn't gone down tonight and gone down at the next one, you'd all be saying the same thing anyway. So what do you want? Cancel all shows?
50
lol scarce resources. did someone get the last pabst at chop suey?
51
oh yeah btw capitol hill wannabe pussies that been to a blue scholars show and think you know hip hop can shut the fuck up. dont even comment.
52
Come on now. Pretending that there aren't more violence and killing with guns happening in association with the hip hop genre than with any other genre is just not believable. The music doesn't cause the violence, but people who use violence are attracted to and sometimes involved with this musical genre. It doesn't help the conversation and it certainly doesn't help the hip hop musice to become less associated with violence to deny that violence happens more with hip hop music events than any other type of music events.
53
It's just a coincidence. There are shootings all the time at indie rock shows, alt-country shows, etc. Oh wait, never mind.
54
@49 Not all shows, but I think canceling all of the shows by whoever the fuck these dudes are would be a good start.
55
if you want some insight into the immature stupidity of the people putting on and going to this show, check out this thread at http://www.206proof.com/forum/comments.p…

Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano.

What a bunch of wanna be's. Hip hop has become a cartoon. Unfortunate the bullets still work.
56
@52: It only gets associated because people like you decide to associate the two. I bet you say the same about Marilyn Manson and company. I could make the same generalization about country music in that all their listeners are redneck, racist hillbillies.
57
"That's like saying paying taxes to fund the Iraq war makes each member personally responsible for everyone who dies over there."

Um... bingo!

We've got to stop this cycle of violence, this is a wakeup call. We, as a city, need to put aside our differences, get together under one rainbow roof, and have a fund raiser. Things might have turned out very differently if we had just listened to our hearts, banded together, and gotten these poor shooters the penis extensions they so obviously need.

58
bedroomstomper - Give us a break, the unemployment rate in the Seattle area is 5%, not 9%.

Can anyone name the last time there was a shooting at a show that wasn't hip-hop related? Like where are all the shootings at the Moore Theater, the Tractor, Sunset Tavern, Crocodile (RIP)?
59
hong kong pooey, the problem on a larger scale is economic. you obviously are a cap hill kid that chooses the hard life instead of the privelaged one you were born with
61
58 you should suck a fart out of my ass turd burgler.
63
#55

dont fuckin quote an internet forum like we caused the fuckin shooter to pull the trigger.
64
@59 i see, so when you have no job you pop your head into the back door of a club and shoot at people, interesting
65
@#55

you're a fucking moron. for real.
66
@60 @62 neither were in any way attributable to organized crime, nor were there any tip-offs
67
ORGANIZED CRIME? What the fuck is this, the fucking 20s? ITS FUCKING MUSIC!
68
64 you got it all wrong.

Its unfortunate that this shit happened but It aint ever gonna stop.

People get shot.

The LARGER PROBLEM is the values of our country, the fact that kids are not properly parented, and our city having a terrible public schooling system.
69
@67 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_or…
@68 you seem to be blaming more things than I do for this, and that we should just accept the fact that we can be shot instead of trying to lower the possibility of that happening
70
"So what do you want? Cancel all shows?"

From this promoter? Sure.

Regarding the Capitol Hill massacre: You're talking about something that had no security, but unlike these events actually had no precedent.
71
"Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano. "

Awesome, club owners should go out of our way to cancel any shows involving these crews.
72
TO ALL U DUMB MUTHAFUCCAZ SPEAKIN ON SHIT FROM A STANDPOINT OF NOT KNOWING WHAT THA FUCC IS GOIN ON SHUT THA FUCC UP! THERE ARE PEOPLE FIGHTING FOR THERE LIFE RIGHT NOW POINT BLANK!
73
The problem with citing the capitol hill massacre of 2006 as an example of a violent shooting at a non-hip hop music event is that this is the only violent shooting at a rave party in Seattle in the 20 or so years that Rave music events have been happening in Seattle. It also didn't happen at a club, it happened at a private home with no security checkpoint to getting in.

There's been far more than one violent shooting at hip hop music event in Seattle.

The problem with citing the Folklife incident last year as an example of a shooting happening at a non-hip hop music event is that this is the only shooting incident I have heard of happening at Folklife in the 30 years of that event's existence. It also is not a club with security but an outdoor event that has no security checkpoint.

There's been far more than one violent shooting at a hip hop music event in the last 30 years in Seattle.

I am not trying to blame the hip hop music because no, the music itself does not cause people to shoot guns.

But it's not helping to say that the violence that does happen at certain hip hop music events is somehow magically random and doesn't happen any more at hip hop music events than at any other type of music events. That doesn't mean that all types of hip hop music events are the same. But I would think the violent shootings that have been and will probably continue to happen at certain types of hip hop music events is unacceptable and needs to be stopped.

What do you think?
74
@55

SINCE WHEN HAS THE NORTH END BEEN BEEFIN WIT THE CD? THE NORTH END AINT HOOD LIKE THAT IM SORRY~!

if you want some insight into the immature stupidity of the people putting on and going to this show, check out this thread at http://www.206proof.com/forum/comments.p

Check out these groups myspace pages. North-end vs. Central area feud. Fatal Luciano and Young Soprano.
75
First and foremost prayers to the victims and their families. I've been in that back hallway countless times and this situation is a performers worst nightmare.

There are damn near 10 fucking local hip hop shows a week in this town that go down without a single hiccup. Kids are getting shot on the doorsteps of schools in this town lately and you wanna stop concerts? Y'all are ridiculous. There are some serious problems with gun violence in this town period. There is plenty of blame to go around, but do not point a finger at the guys on stage until all the details surface.
76
"THERE ARE PEOPLE FIGHTING FOR THERE LIFE RIGHT NOW POINT BLANK!"

I think that's the problem right hurr.
77
#76 why don't you just come out and say that you're ignorant as fuck?
78
That really the best photo you can get? There's like 15 cop cars out front cordoning off the whole block. This is a photo of an empty street with a bunch of lights like 2 miles away. Doesn't some Stranger staffer live closer?
79
76 go fuck yourself.

You obviously have no conscience.

Quit with your jokes.
80
Excellent - one little hiccup in the economy and it's the 80s, all over again. Good times, good times.

On the plus side, this will really help with the gentrification of the Central District. You thought "white flight" was quick before? Just think how fast it'll happen when folks can walk away from their upside-down mortgages with government help.
81
Music... reflects reality for some and is a hammer that shapes reality for others. The question of "is this shooting related to hip hop music?" should not be the question your asking.

Hip hop started out in the South Bronx in the 1970's by black & latino youth who took what they had and used it to change the world. The elements of DJ'ing, breakdancing, emceeing and graffiti art were unified and called "Hip Hop" by a guy named Afrika Bambataa who helped unify the gangs in a neighborhood that was so tore up it was referred to as "Planet Rock"

You might not know this story, because over the last 30 years Hip Hop has been assimilated and become Pop Culture... the architects of a movement (Hip Hop) that was founded on Peace, Love, Unity and Having Fun... might not be who you associate with Hip Hop anymore.

One could argue that Arnold Schwarzenegger is as Hip Hop as a lot of these clowns rapping on TV today... but nobodys blaming any killings on The Terminator. The mainstream, pop culture, it makes these rappers the same way it made him, they are manufactured by an industry Hip Hop does not control... and if you don't fit the mold you don't have a chance within that machine. google the movie "Before The Music Dies" this is not a conspiracy theory

So when you blame these shootings on Hip Hop, it feels like a slap in the face to everything positive that we do. And what's really important to us? as emcees? As protectors of true Hip Hop Culture?

Is that right now, here in Seattle, funding is being cut from the programs that actually help the youth in our community. There's less alternatives for positive things that youth can do when they get out of school. I work at an alternative high school in the southend right now, where THE SCHOOL doesn't have funding to hire an arts teacher, and the students need an arts credit to graduate.

In the last few months i know over 10 kids that have been shot. None of them were at a concert.

Police brutality is a huge issue in our neighborhoods. No matter what age you are. We do not feel like they are there to protect us.

It makes sense to me why a child growing up in this environment would turn to a gang. It has nothing to do with Hip Hop.

We live in the same conditions that Hip Hop was created in, and you are not helping by blaming the music.

Criminalizing the youth doesn't help either. I think we have youth right here in Seattle that might be falling through the cracks, that are brighter than Afrika Bambataa was, that have so much to offer the entire globe.

What can you offer these youth?



that should be the question...


and if you need more insight as to what Hip Hop really is... i suggest Jeff Chang's book "Can't Stop, Won't Stop"
82
I found this on that Proof site of theirs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1orJUUJz…
83
@81 gt: thanks for your thoughtful comments.

So what can be done?

How can we help?
84
i don't have the answers...

i just work with youth in the southend and the c.d. and can't sleep at night because i remember being 15 and not thinking i would live to see 18, and now i look at some of my youth and they have the same look in they're eyes that i used to have. and i know what i can do

you have to ask yourself what you can do

if you can't think of anything you can do to help these youth... stop knocking the people that actually do care about us
85
Hip hop music and culture is BORN from these people. Of course it attracts them and of course it encourages it, the music is a product of the violence. Yes, you can listen to hip hop and not be violent, but you must understand that music born from a culture will attract and retain and glorify that culture.
86
wow. 85 comments and none of them worth reading. this string reads like a teenage youtube channel page. the same four breathless bloggers whining both sides of a stupid issue.
87
I live at Union and Fourteenth. The night before, there was a shooting up the street at Twentythird and Union. Now, last night, this. It's the guns. There are too many.
88
thank god the show wasn't all ages or we'd be looking at a new TDO.
89
in agreement with "52", what suggestions productive measures to people have for ceasing the violence. please do not say "ban firearms" or "ban hip hop" et al because none of these are solutions - rather they are associating and assigning blame [as others have mentioned.

the question is not who/what/where we can blame for the occurence of this violence, it is what measures can be done to stop these ongoing situations from occuring?
90
Uh... http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Conte…

In any case, there is a happy medium between the "what problem? there's no problem!" and the "black people scare me!" stances adopted in a lot of the comments here. I think it'd be somewhat productive for the communities involved to get cracking on a solution before Nickels rules by fiat in the last few months he has in office.
91
@81, thanks for your comments. You far more articulately voiced my own opinion which is basically, "What the hell happened?" in terms of hip-hop. I know for a fact I was one of the first white kids -- hell, any color kid -- in my little Indiana town to be listening to Afrika B, F5F, Kurtis Blow, etc., because I'd gone to school for a semester in NYC and fell in love with the hip-hop shows there.

And then something happened. The leading voices of hip-hop turned gangsta, misogynistic, unimaginative. I lost interest and, in fact, grew revolted by the movement.

Today, there are glimmers of hope. The "Street Sounds" program on KEXP should earn MacArthur Genius Grants for Riz and B-Mello. Some local acts already mentioned here do amazing work in the genre.

But given the violence today I'll be goddamned if I'd ever suggest a kid go to a local hip-hop show -- and my own fond memories of what it was like to dance to to that wonderful music back in 1984, makes that a crying shame.
92
Why hasn't rap (or hiphop or whatever the fuck they're calling that shit) faded away by now? That "genre" has been on life support for at least thirty years.

It's shit music, made by idiots, with an audience of violent assholes. Its been corporatized beyond belief, with most of the songs seeming to be nothing but recitations of brand names.

I think they should just have these hiphop nights at the fucking King County Jail. Then they can check everybody on the way out, and whoever has an oustanding warrant gets to stay. It would be a great way to keep these violent retards off the streets.
93
I saw the headline for this post and immediately thought "Oh, did they have a hip hop show?"

There's no way around the fact that odds are, if there's a shooting at a show in Seattle, it's a hip hop show.
94
Say bye bye, to Chop Suey:(
95
@85 "Hip hop music and culture is BORN from these people. Of course it attracts them and of course it encourages it, the music is a product of the violence. Yes, you can listen to hip hop and not be violent, but you must understand that music born from a culture will attract and retain and glorify that culture."

"These people" are BORN from the streets, the same streets you walk down, only theirs aren't tree-lined and full of mixed-use retail spaces. The music isn't a product of the violence; it is a reflection of a way of life that you cannot imagine because you're not poor, you're parents didn't leave you when you were a baby, you didn't go to a school where you're more likely to hear guns ring than bullets, or grow up in a place where drugs and prostitution are more common than the latte you start your day with.

The violence isn't the fault of hip hop music. The violence is a result of the failings of our society, which hip hop reminds us of with each Mobb Deep banger, with each tattoo The Game gets on his face.

As for Seattle's scene, there are plenty of positive hip hop acts, way more than the gangster shit here. Before all of you get your skinny jeans in a twist, check out Blue Scholars, Common Market, Canary Sing, Grayskul, Boom Bap, Abssyninian, etc.
96
@91 not all local hiphop shows are alike. You can often tell by promoter&lineup if there's a likelihood of violence, and just skip those shows - there is absolutely no need to avoid all local hiphop just because a few have seen violence. The vast majority of local hiphop shows in Seattle are peaceful.
97
@92. "Why hasn't rap (or hiphop or whatever the fuck they're calling that shit) faded away by now? That "genre" has been on life support for at least thirty years."

What the fuck are you talking about? Hip hop is the most popular music in the country now, having surpassed country music just recently. Lil' Wayne is now a figment of our consciousness. 50 is slanging vitamin water. Ice Cube is now doing freaking kids movies. Hip hop is a prevalent part of America's culture.

"It's shit music, made by idiots, with an audience of violent assholes. Its been corporatized beyond belief, with most of the songs seeming to be nothing but recitations of brand names."

Again, WTF!? I've been going to hip hop shows my entire life, first in Queens (the second birthplace of hip hop) where I grew up, then in LA and now in Seattle, and I've only seen one fight. Here, actually, at a Kanye show when, ironically, he was performing "Jesus Walks," a song about his love for Jesus.

"I think they should just have these hiphop nights at the fucking King County Jail. Then they can check everybody on the way out, and whoever has an oustanding warrant gets to stay. It would be a great way to keep these violent retards off the streets."

Or we could start at the root of the problem, the neighborhoods where the kids grow up in, the schools where they learn more about the streets than about books, the parents that don't have the skills or the money to raise them properly. This is the problem here-- not hip hop.
98
I thought hip hop was over.
99
I have to agree with "gritz" (I believe I know who you are) and as someone who has had extensive ties with the nightclub scene in my younger days, this is the death knell. New owners better look at opening up a doughnut operation or something.
100
@95

Well said!

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