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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
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He is picked on in the locker room because it is acceptable for Gays to be picked on. Look at conservatives on the news.
The Irish used to be picked on because it was acceptable. Immigrants are acceptable targets now, they just happen to be from Central and South America. When you are treated equally by the government, it does mean something.
Good for him.
The government withholds rights from gays. Society sees that gays aren't equal. Locker-room kids their attitudes about gays from society. Gay kid is the recipient of those attitudes.
Not all of them receive the "message of equality."
For every enlightened, reasoned, and articulate kid like this one, there's some other 17-year old taking the exact opposite stance.
Everybody remember the right-wing kid-puppet from CPAC? No, not Rush, the ACTUAL kid.
Perhaps language such as "this is why we're winning" isn't helping things.
Does "we" include straights who support equality? Or is this just a GLBTQ (add letters as appropriate) battle?
If it's all about "us versus them" then who, exactly, is the "them?"
This cause may be better served by language other than confrontational posturing. This 17-year old kid seems to understand that even better than Dan.
Bravo, young man.
I'm not sure where you got confused by this post...
Right. Nothing taken away. Who needs a sense of security in high school? Why should anyone feel safe in a public building, anyway, huh? Fuckin' faggots, always crying about things being kept from them, acting like they shouldn't be second class citizens. What nerve!!
He says he is harassed by his classmates. Are you in favor of harassment or suggesting that he is lying (like all homosexuals presumably lie about the innateness of homosexuality)?
Please enlighten us with specifics.
So if I understand you, he's a straight boy that has been indoctrinated with homosexual ideologies, that our taxes have paid for? Care to tell me that I am misunderstanding you?
By listening to this young man's speech, "us" versus "them" is pretty clear. It's people on opposing sides of the equality argument.
Perhaps I just got confused by regularly reading Dan Savage. It's becoming increasingly difficult to separate the grand-standing mayoral candidate, crusader against youth pastors, from the relevant issues.
My point is simply this: How can you further the cause of acceptance and tolerance by continuing to use divisive and inflammatory rhetoric?
Again, this kid seems to understand that better than Dan.
He is a she.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/l…
Really. A mom as well.
22 dear, I don't think my gender nor me having kids is relevant to this discussion, unless you want to make it. And if you do let me just remind you that in many places the morals I'm instating on my kids would be seen on a far better light than the ones you seem to be so fond of. So I have nothing to fear Kim, my house is clean, in order, lawful and moral.
@26 - I'm tempted to agree with you, but I just can't wish that kind of horror on any child. Maybe it would open Loveschild's mind... but what if it didn't?
What your family suffered has no bearing on the suffering of gays that you're intent on denying, whether it's on this thread or elsewhere. Some "values." Some "morals."
Since you posted before that you were both a woman and a mom, I didn't think it was a secret. Sorry!
If you have something to say to me, just say it.
And, smacking someone silly is neither lawful or moral.
Nor moral.
And you do know what they call a person who acts contrary to their professed beliefs, right?
@ 5 "we" = all Americans who fight for equality & justice; once we win, all of America wins! just as America became a better place when women were allowed to vote or interracial couples were allowed to marry, just so will America become a better place when male couples and female couples have the same civil rights as mixed couples!!
Must I report my expenditures to your campaign if we don't collude on the message?
Gays should have the right to marry, no doubt. But would someone tell this kid (and the others like him) that there's more to life than the white picket fence!
When I was an out gay 15-year-old, all I thought about were student council meetings and math grades.
So far you've made stuff up, and justified the beating of gay men to unconsciousness because some biased story you read said that some some Christians may have been called names during pro prop 8 protests. Somehow in your mind, a very vague story by a biased, non-news agency, anti-gay group is rock solid reporting, but actual news stories from multiple news outlets reporting that gay men were attacked while being called fag are questionable. The earlier post was right, you really are like a holocaust denier.
Do you have anything rational to explain your anti-gay position, anything at all? The saints and apostles, bless your dear li'l irrational ol' heart.
You're desrire to touch Loveschild makes everyone uncomfortable.
Your desire . . . .
Which suggests a better name for the new series;
'This Is Why We're Whining'.
You also suggest that equal marriage rights are an "attack on traditional marriage." This is the argument of so many conservatives, but in the heart of that argument, in the words of Gertrude Stein, 'there is no there there.' Supporting someone else's marriage, granting to LGBT couples the same rights and responsibilities of legal marriage, in no way impacts the marriages of others in a negative way. There is simply no basis for a claim to the contrary. Suggesting that we can't expand or change the definition of something without destroying it is simply ignorant. For example, changing the definition of "person" in the constitution so that African-Americans would be counted as whole persons and not 3/5 of a person didn't destroy the meaning of that word, it expanded it and made it MORE just, MORE decent, MORE moral.
Further, were your argument sound, the presence of gay marriage in Massachusetts would have, by now, had some damaging effect on marriage as an institution, marked by an increase in divorce rates and/or a decrease in marriage rates of more than the national average--and that simply hasn't happened.
You close your latest message with "my house is clean, in order, lawful and moral." I'm not normally the kind of pastor who throws around scripture, but I am suddenly hearing echoes of "Beware of those who practice their piety in public" and "why do you look for the splinter in the eye of another, when there is a log in your own?"
"I only hope that, one day, you will learn that God has a better plan for you. I'll pray for you James and hope that you will turn away from sin. May you be in the light of the Lord and enjoy all of his blessings."
"I would pack them a lunch and always put a cookie or a brownie in it to brighten their day..." ???
The institution of marriage is about to be destroyed because of tripe like this? Give me a break!
48 Why am I considered 'ignorant' by you when others have expressed here the same sentiments I have.
"40 To hear this 17-year-old boy say his "future dreams" were ruined by the idea that he could only get a civil union.. well, it's just sad."
This was the same thing I was commenting on. You know very well this young man was instructed by a group of adults to make that ridiculous statement.
I'm not saying he didn't coated with his experience of being bullied but come on, the idea of him truly thinking that his future is ruined if civil unions only exist for gay people is beyond laughable. I see no hate in pointing that out. Quite honestly after seeing the video for a second time I just feel sorry for the kid. He has obviously been used by these adults to further their agendas. Tell me how taking advantage of a captive young mind while in school is not a form of exploitation? Because that's what happens when you're a minor in school, you are under the care of a group of adults (teachers, principles) to whom your parents have trusted to educate you in the subjects of English, Math, Science, History, not to indoctrinate you (as in the case with this kid) with their worldview.
Seems to me that for all the accusations of hypocrisy being thrown at me you have refused to take a more non biased examination of the obvious. That being that in the state of Vermont gays already enjoy basically all the benefits that marriage offers, there is sir no discrimination being enacted there. So were I pray ask you where is the injustice ? Or are you making an argument for forced acceptance and celebration by society of something they have made clear they don't want? Which one is it?
I'm not even going to respond with to the comparisons, since it seems you are one of the many here who suffers from that stupid ailment.
As for my response to Kim, there was no arrogance on my response to her. You would do better pastor (if you truly are a man of God) to respond to her with those quotes since it is her who seems to have a high regard for herself and what she thinks. As anyone who's aptitude is put into question I have every right to answer and defend my beliefs and yes my values. That's all I was doing in my response to her, nothing more.
What pray tell have I done or said to you? Get off your chest woman, you'll feel better.
Get it off your chest, so you'll feel better.
Furthermore, I am extremely offended by the fact that the religious groups opposed to same-sex marriage do so on the grounds that their religious beliefs are the only ones anyone has the right to hold. Speaking as a person in recovery from Catholicism, I have to say that, out of six billion people in this world, there are six billion sets of religious beliefs. No two people have exactly the same set of beliefs, despite their claims to the contrary.
I think that ALL laws based solely on religion should be stricken. As for the concept of "morality", what ever happened to "Judge not lest ye be judged"?
As for the young man in the video, more power to him and others like him. They are the future of our species and people like "Loveschild" are fading fast.
There's a song about it in "South Pacific": "You have to be taught to hate and fear...".
"When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite
By ThosPayne
SS. Sergius & Bacchus - 7th cent.
A Kiev art museum contains a curious icon from St. Catherine's Monastery on Mt. Sinai in Israel. It shows two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman ‘pronubus’ (a best man), overseeing a wedding. The pronubus is Christ. The married couple are both men.
Is the icon suggesting that a gay "wedding" is being sanctified by Christ himself? The idea seems shocking. But the full answer comes from other early Christian sources about the two men featured in the icon, St. Sergius and St. Bacchus, two Roman soldiers who were Christian martyrs. These two officers in the Roman army incurred the anger of Emperor Maximian when they were exposed as ‘secret Christians’ by refusing to enter a pagan temple. Both were sent to Syria circa 303 CE where Bacchus is thought to have died while being flogged. Sergius survived torture but was later beheaded. Legend says that Bacchus appeared to the dying Sergius as an angel, telling him to be brave because they would soon be reunited in heaven.
While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early Christian church, was not unusual, the association of these two men was regarded as particularly intimate. Severus, the Patriarch of Antioch (AD 512 - 518) explained that, "we should not separate in speech they [Sergius and Bacchus] who were joined in life". This is not a case of simple "adelphopoiia." In the definitive 10th century account of their lives, St. Sergius is openly celebrated as the "sweet companion and lover" of St. Bacchus. Sergius and Bacchus's close relationship has led many modern scholars to believe they were lovers. But the most compelling evidence for this view is that the oldest text of their martyrology, written in New Testament Greek describes them as "erastai,” or "lovers". In other words, they were a male homosexual couple. Their orientation and relationship was not only acknowledged, but it was fully accepted and celebrated by the early Christian church, which was far more tolerant than it is today.
Contrary to myth, Christianity's concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept and ritual.
Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).
These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.
Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12thand/ early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.
Same-sex unions in pre-modern Europe list in great detail some same gender ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One Greek 13th century rite, "Order for Solemn Same-Sex Union", invoked St. Serge and St. Bacchus, and called on God to "vouchsafe unto these, Thy servants [N and N], the grace to love one another and to abide without hate and not be the cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the Holy Mother of God, and all Thy saints". The ceremony concludes: "And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it shall be concluded".
Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.
Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.
The Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653), includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer books, “Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae Liturgiae” (Paris, 1667).
While homosexuality was technically illegal from late Roman times, homophobic writings didn’t appear in Western Europe until the late 14th century. Even then, church-consecrated same sex unions continued to take place.
At St. John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish church) in 1578, as many as thirteen same-gender couples were joined during a high Mass and with the cooperation of the Vatican clergy, "taking communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together" according to a contemporary report. Another woman to woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century.
Prof. Boswell's academic study is so well researched and documented that it poses fundamental questions for both modern church leaders and heterosexual Christians about their own modern attitudes towards homosexuality.
For the Church to ignore the evidence in its own archives would be cowardly and deceptive. The evidence convincingly shows that what the modern church claims has always been its unchanging attitude towards homosexuality is, in fact, nothing of the sort.
It proves that for the last two millennia, in parish churches and cathedrals throughout Christendom, from Ireland to Istanbul and even in the heart of Rome itself, homosexual relationships were accepted as valid expressions of a God-given love and committment to another person, a love that could be celebrated, honored and blessed, through the Eucharist in the name of, and in the presence of, Jesus Christ. "
This of course is just my opinion and we can agree to disagree.
the offer to attend the next slog happy stands. be as blunt among fellow commenters as you are on slog. are you brave enough to defend your beliefs in real life? are you?
i thought not.
Whatever girl, keep thinking you're so nice and all. Truth always come out and ones character is always revealed on the importance given to family structure, respect and care one gives to the values that are conducive to life. True justice, not made up stories. Not by looking the other way when they come under the attacks being cheered here under the guise of false doctrines.
You're wrong (in my opinion) truth of ones character comes out in how you treat the vulnerable in society.
"If I speak in the tongues of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps not record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices in truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, and always persevers.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfections comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child. I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. - 1 Corinthians 13: 1- 13
" A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another." -John 13:34-35
I LOVE YOU, LOVESCHILD, BECAUSE HE DIED FOR YOU AND BECAUSE I CHOOSE TOO. I am sorry for your hurt feelings, and I forgive you for insulting me so many times.
I wasn't on when they posted their comments. I had not read their comments until you pointed them out.
Someone is either gay or their not, it is not a choice. Your children's sexual orientations, as my children's sexual orientations, are not in our control.
I do not think the other commentors were wishing ill on your children, I think they were wondering if one of your children being gay would change your mind about granting equal rights to homosexuals.
Maybe, you think people choose their sexual orientation? Medical science disagrees. I believe medical science is correct, sexual orientation is in born.
I don't believe either of my children are gay, but if they were it wouldn't change a thing. I would love them just the same.
Wouldn't you love yours just the same, too?
Not only are my kids straight but they also know that while they need to respect others they need to stand firm on their convictions and the morals I have taught them. They are blessed to be in an environment where their peers share their same values but were that not the case I know they would hold on to the true teachings of love and family and not cave into peer pressure or false ideologies. They have a rock solid foundation on which to build a healthy honest and productive life.
You misunderstood me. No, I don't want your children to be anything but who they are.
My question was hypothetical. If one of your children was gay, wouldn't you love that child just the same?
I do my best in pursuing what's right and just so that I don't have to dwell on a hypothetical or regrets in the future.
And from the bottom of my heart I hope one day you for your benefit and that of yours you start doing the same.
So, you can't answer the question, because you don't dwell in hypotheticals. And, you don't dwell in hypotheticals, because you are so self assured that your doing eveything correct, and that you will never have any regrets in the future.
You have no clue what that indicates about your heart and your capacity to love. I feel pity for you.
So, don't worry for my family and I. You need to get the planks out of your own eye. If your blind to your own faults, I pity you all the more.
If we claim we are without sin, we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrightousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. - 1 John 1: 8-10
I will deal with getting the planks out of my own.
Do you see any hypocrisy in your unwillingness to take one story at face value while you're just as willing to presume to know the story behind this boy's statement?
Tell me, pray, just how name-calling helps in any situation, especially this one. I disagree with Loveschild's attitudes towards homosexuality and same-sex marriage, but I see no reason to stoop to the level of a third-grader....
Why do any of you event speak to the woman, a bag short of a douchebag?