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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
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gawd-o-mighty are we ever WHINING!!!
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/0…
...fuck off, shut up, go away.
Anyway, i think that DOMA is quite a bit more symbolic than ENDA, but single-payer health care would improve the lives of queer folks much more than either.
I think that should be possible without all the lying, distortion and misrepresentation that Aravosis is engaging in.
"Now, I’m not going to pledge -- and nor is the president -- that this is going to be done by some certain date. The pledge and the promise is that, this will be done before the sun sets on this administration – our goal is to have this entire agenda accomplished and enacted into law so that it is secure.
The Advocate: Does that include a second term? A lot of people have talked about DOMA being pushed back until a second term.
Berry: I say this in a broad sense -- our goal is to get this done on this administration’s watch."
and BTW, Dan has a right to a little whining. When the guy that holds out his hand for your money slaps you in the face, you get some time to be upset!
I don't know that this is what was done here. But I think it's something worth considering.
All this blood on the floor from us fighting for hate crimes laws and now you tell me it's only symbolic and not what you really wanted anyway? I mean a lot of people could have been doing other things if we'd have known hate crimes didn't really matter to you.
So... let's just say we do finally repeal DOMA. By that time are you going to tell me that's "largely symbolic" too?
Don't think I'll ever understand the patented Dan Savage Scorched Earth Politics.
While I can see why DOMA would anger a lot of people, gay marriage as an issue is winning in the states; people on both sides are starting to see it as a fait accompli. And DOMA doesn't ban gay marriages; it says (except for the odious bit about the feds not recognizing them) that states need to work it out for themselves. For a guy aware of the historical effects of Roe v. Wade (and trying to build a coalition to tackle health care -- the Sisyphus of national policy), this seems like a reasonable tack. Again, for people who donated to him in part on this issue this is a betrayal. But as someone with no horse in the DOMA race (apart from a general sense of common brotherhood) it seems to me like right now, it might be a Pyrrhic victory.
I'm not saying that both aren't important. I'm just saying that any organization has to order objectives and deploy resources according to that order.
The time to apply this kind of pressure comes in one year and in three years. That's when the appeals come in for more Democratic senators and for a second term.
So get a hobby. Like maybe knitting. Or playing tennis. How bout learning a second language? *Something*. But for the love of god, scouring the net for every last detail about this issue and then putting all your energy into creating vitriolic postings about it for Slog? Come on, buddy. Step down off the ledge. It's gonna be oooookay.
You'll have to excuse me if I'm missing something, but I'm not coming to the same conclusion as you are. Perhaps, not being a part of the community is impeding my ability to understand. I'm sorry for how much this hurts, angers, and frustrates you. I wish I had some assurance to offer, but I don't and it would come across as trivial and dismissive at best. So, don't loose heart, keep up the good fight, and channel this into something good and meaningful.
fondly,
k
(Yes I'm still smarting about what I was called for voting for Clinton. Hey, own who you voted for and know now that it was all smoke screen to get money and the lever pulled; next time think twice before gambling on an unproven candidate)
You are filling up my FB page lately.
We need you "media whore gays" to step it up....don't stop now.
13 - things are sooo much better for us now that Dems are in power. Yeah, we'll get hate crimes but Bush actually worked to end the HIV travel ban which Obama has not. I call it a draw. Absolutely pathetic.
Oh yeah, and to all of you asshole breeders who think we're whining because we donated money and gave our time to get Obama elected, only to have him stab us in the back, it just shows me what bunch of spineless two-faced shits all of the so-called "progressives" out there are. I'm just happy in knowing that sooner or later he'll fuck you all over too.
@22 Please...Hillary dead enders come out every few weeks or months to say "we told you so", all the while ignoring that Bill Clinton signed DADT and DOMA into law, with the love and support of his lovely wife. You should have voted for Dennis Kucinich if you wanted someone who was for gay marriage, because Hillary made it absolutely clear she was not.
I just can't believe that people can be this cruel. We got stabbed in the gut on Friday and then run over for good measure, after watching our fellow citizens vote our rights away in CA, after listening to the Republicans and the right-wingers destroy our lives for the last 8 years, and never having equal rights as long as I've been alive, and THIS is what you have to say to us? "Oh just wait a few more years" "do something else, take up a hobby".
&#&Y%#@Q()*&#$)_*(#W$)(&@Q#)($*&)Q@(#&$Q@)(&#
I am so freaking tired of people telling me to wait. Can you just imagine for ONE minute what that would be like? HuH? Jesus H F'ing Christ.
Being lied to your face is so much better because you can't forgive fiteen years ago? Clinton and Obama received the same score from HRC (89/100) but Clinton has a much longer history of having come much further since the DOMA days.
http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbiana…
It's not so much about rehashing the past - though we can spend the rest of our lives doing that if anyone is so inclined - but my original point stands: own your vote. You were lied to, don't be fooled so easily next time. Look further than the people around you to figure out who gets your vote.
Probably won't do any good, but maybe some of you will listen in 2012 and we'll actually get SO immigration reform, equal rights, etc etc.
er... just don't get so mad at the dems you wind up voting for Palin!
it's Hillary that i cry for, for she has known the cruelty and betrayal of the penis, first from that who "made" her, then from goldwater, then from that slimeball of a sperm donor who gave her her precious Chelsea, finally from barak hussein obama and by extension his bitch wife who refused to stand in solidarity with her.
my only consolation is that Hillary has surely, in the dark of the night, when prying eyes are finally closed, knows the comforting touch of another woman and has known the embrace that knows no betrayal. one can only hope that one day she will find her way out of this fog of paternalistic bullshit and embrace the earth mother, celebrating in the fountain of another self-actualized womans essential juices.
Blessings to you.
OR
just voting straight up (R) so at least I won't be taxed at a grossly high level (yeah, I'm financially successful, which I was willing to forget while I busted my ass to to get Obama elected).
What do you think?
OR
just voting straight up (R) so at least I won't be taxed at a grossly high level (yeah, I'm financially successful, which I was willing to forget while I busted my ass to to get Obama elected).
What do you think?
FIERCE ADVOCATE, MY ASS
anyone in?
I was surprised by the responses to this post. I'm pissed off, wanting my rights already, and the commenters on here are saying that Dan needs to shut the hell up about it. The people who say this issue needs to 'tone down' are the same people who don't feel the fire in their souls to march at DC and protest until the promises are filled and the bigotry is extinguished.
In other words? If you don't like reading about gay shit, then just keep scrolling.
You're much more influential here in Seattle and can get more done. Besides, we need to have state recognition first. Even if DOMA is repealed... federal benefits are worthless if the state doesn't legalize same-sex marriage.
Kennedy: Black people, vote for me! Thanks for voting for me, but I can't advance the agenda you requested since white people will be mad. Actually, I'll wiretap your most influential leader and have my FBI and DOJ sell info to white supremacist groups that will eventually spawn a lone wolf that will kill him! Oops, bombings? Defiant governors? Alright, Civil Rights Act!
LBJ: Okay, signing that CRA now. And trying to end the war. Or at least I'll say I'm ending the war, but fuck the anti-war crowd even though they voted for me.
Jimmy Carter: Thanks for voting for me, gullible black people. Here, let me bankrupt your communities and throw you headlong into the jaws of a money-hungry Reagan administration.
Bill Clinton: Thanks queers, enjoy your DOMA and DADT! Hey, let's screw up health care too! Economy is looking amazing, though.
Al Gore: I surrender to the court.
Obama: Thanks Democrats, I'm going to tackle something that is best accomplished in bits and pieces to take everyone's mind off of the stimulus package that is basically a gimme to governors now. Oh, and I'm going to let the courts screw over black people and gay people, and I'm going to let the GOP crap all over hispanics.
Basically, you need to take the good and take the bad. You take them all.
There is one unwritten rule in politics:
Don't get the gay peoples mad at you!
Obama failed to observe such multiple times...
The passage of the hate crimes bill is important on a fundamental, constitutional level. Think about why consensual sodomy was fine to criminalize under Bowers v. Hardwick in the 1980s but suddenly not in Lawrence v. Texas in the 1990s.
Don't get me wrong, I am furious that Obama has abandoned his campaign promises and seems to gauge this country too angry and too hateful to tolerate equality.
But that kind of cowering apathy is why the Supreme Court had to go ahead and decide Brown v. Board of Education.
instead we get a typical politician.
the blog post is no better than the crap i hear on talk radio from limbaugh: skewed representation of facts to ignite the listener/reader's ire. good for talk radio and blogs, not so good for democracy.
i sent money to Obama after his reaction to the Rev. Wright nonsense. he talked to the public like adults, he explained himself, he was eloquent. and after sending that money, i started thinking, "why isn't he doing (fill in the blank)?" suddenly, i thought myself a campaign manager. i wasn't. Obama won and he did so with a focused, deliberate approach.
i was happy when i saw the fruits of that approach back in November. i'll be happy when i see them again in regards to DADT and DOMA and those battles not yet to be known. "accomplished and enacted into law so that it is secure" was the key phrase for me.
oh, patrick66 @45, that doesn't mean i can't appreciate a great slogan.
and to embrace the anger @44, i think you mean "womyn power" and, more importantly, "spatters on the floor of some shitty mancave?" i think i'd rather be a splatter on the floor of a mancave (with HDTV) than absorbed by some extra strength tampon, but i actually don't know why we need the division of male female to add in the mix of anger, heat and hatred that you embrace.
to each her own.
Sec. 333. DISCRIMINATION RELATED TO SEXUAL ORIENTATION
(a) TRACKING VIOLENCE OR CRIMINALIZATION RELATED TO SEXUAL ORIENTATION. -- The Assistant Secretary for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor shall designate a Bureau-based officer or officers who shall be responsible for tracking violence, criminalization, and restrictions on the enjoyment of fundamental freedoms, consistent with United States law, in foreign countries based on actual or perceived sexual orientation and gender identity.
(b) INTERNATIONAL EFFORTS TO REVISE LAWS CRIMINALIZING HOMOSEXUALITY. -- In keeping with the Administration’s endorsement of efforts by the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality in member states, the Secretary of State shall work though appropriate United States Government employees at United States diplomatic and consular missions to encourage the governments of other countries to reform or repeal laws of such countries criminalizing homosexuality or consensual homosexual conduct, or restricting the enjoyment of fundamental freedoms, consistent with United States law, by homosexual individuals or organizations.
Yes, clearly this guy is full of hatred.
"The administration has had its hands full with the financial crisis, health care, Guantánamo Bay and other pressing matters. In times like these, issues like repealing the marriage act can seem like a distraction — or a political liability. But busy calendars and political expediency are no excuse for making one group of Americans wait any longer for equal rights."
... or were you talking about Iran?
2. Not only that, his spokesperson lied in saying he just had to defened DOMA (code word for saying gays are vile and disgusting). Oh, he just had to say gays a re vile and disgusting you wee, because that's somehow mandated by laws and all this legal shit and stuff go away and take your stabbing in the back with a cheer, folks!
3. He used arguments that amoun to saying gays are vile and disgusting.
4. Since then we've seen lots of internet comment. Well at least today MSNBC is citing gay groups as being angry at him.
But really folks when you have your core identity abused and you're shat upon and spit upon and lied to and betrayed
isn't it time to be out in the streets
having a sit in in the federal building
having dignified marches with gay couples and their kids saying "recognize our marriage" and "Obama: stop the hate" and "Obama" you lied to us"???????????????????????????
O mean lots of internet chat is great and all but if they can go to the streets in Iran what's the action step here?
Just telling gays to not go to DNC dinners? Wow, that'll teach 'em.
Really, though I agree that he should be able to take care of these issues quickly and with virtual political impunity, if he thinks (and I believe Obama has considerably better political acuity than me or anyone in this thread) that getting rid of DOMA and DADT will cause problems with passing all the other dramatically more important things (universal healthcare, save the economy, get the troops home, etc etc) then I say take care of the more important issues first. I am 100% in support of gay rights and getting rid of those stupid policies but there are more urgent issues right now. I'd like to think that once we get past some of these urgent issues he will take care of DOMA and DADT. Let's hope I'm right.
*( http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/bara… )
Heck, even Melissa Etheridge is showing up on TV - to talk about MJ, not about gay marriage.
I'm glad Obama is making you do this yourselves. It would be hollow, empty, and next to meaningless for most Americans to be told that "Oh Gay Marriage is suddenly OK now! Change your opinions by tomorrow, k?"
Nope. Now you have to convince them. Good. Get at it.
Americans have been waiting a long time for a 1st world health care system. You know, the right to not die because you don't have the money to pay for cancer treatment. Telling me you wish you'd voted for McCain - who opposed said right (and gay marriage) - doesn't make me very excited about advocating for gay marriage and ending DOMA and the like. You lament the cynicism of our politicians, but voting democrat just until you get your weddings is as cynical as they come.
It's amazing how vapid and careless people can be about this struggle for civil rights. You are a fool. We are human beings, you ignorant ass. It's people like YOU who we must fight against, people who can sit there and say "your movement" and "organize on your own" as if we are seperate from you and not made of the same flesh and bone.
This isn't a fight for casual fridays, or what to replace the viaduct with. This is people's lives. Their right to protect their families, their homes, their careers. If you need to be "convinced" that I have right to claim survivor SSI benefits after a lifetime of paying into the system, or if you need to be "convinced" that my husband and adopted children have a right to the same benefits that my coworkers get without comment - then your point is that you are glad that Obama is making us convince others that we are decent human beings deserving of equal status under the law. You ought to be ashamed. I am very glad you are not a part of OUR movement.