A march on Washington is needed in my opinion, hopefully 6 digit numbers in turnout or do we dare hope for 7 digits, grabs attention. I remember the hundreds of thousands for the civil rights demonstrations in the 60's and participated in the numerous anti-war marches of the 70's. Peaceful civil disobedience can be a part of such a march. Such actions can be staged at various buildings of government.
I think the idea of couples being arrested may be beneficial but in my opinion the focus of such action should be at the Capitol ... ask for meetings with senators and congressmen & congresswomen.
I would be willing to buy a plane ticket or two, but we're going to have to be very careful not to send "Nut Jobs", the couples would have to follow strict guide lines. My Partner and I are too old to get arrested. And I've been arrested back in the good ole days (I look aweful in orange).
If this can be pulled together without being insane, I think it's great.
Ultimately, Dan, this means you still do have faith in Obama. If you didn't, you wouldn't bother to harrass Obama. Bush blissfully ignored Sheehan and thousands of other anti-Iraq War protestors. This tells me that you think that Obama will act if his feet are held to the fire. I actually think he's going to act and you all are going to take credit for it. That's OK.
I scheduled a vacation for June 30-July 5 to visit my brother for his birthday and to visit family over the fourth. While I would still like to do this, I have decided that this time could be better spent petitioning our government for equal rights for gay and lesbian citizens.
I have decided to change my itinerary and fly to DC for that week and stand outside the White House gates from sun-up to sun-down, peacefully holding banners with quotes of the president's expressing his support for gay rights. It would be nice if I could recruit others into this, and I'm gonna try, but I'm willing to be there by myself for the week.
I'm tired of being dismissed as a wedge issue by the Democratic party who are supposed to be on our side. I am ready to stand up and challenge our government. Please stand with me.
Feel free to forward this to anyone you know that would be able to help in this cause. Not just financially, but to research the presidents quotes and get banners made up and the such. Thanks.
saunatina@gmail.com
I like this idea but wonder if the intermittent nature of it (daily arrests) and MOW (one time) would have the same impact as something more continuous. Imagine a constant stream of (everchanging) people marching non-stop around the white house. Get tired? take a break and let someone else march for a while. People could sign up for shifts online to ensure that the march is never broken...24-7 until we have full civil rights.
Equal rights for the LGBT community NOW! No Excuses! No Delays!
I like the idea Dan, but what can I, as a straight woman, do? I am not a single issue voter most of the time and most of my beliefs line up pretty well with the democratic party, so I've never had to be. But I think not allowing gay marriage is so far beyond wrong that I will not vote for Obama again if he keeps this up. Which will be very difficult for me since I actually think he's doing a very good job on other issues and I just really like him.
But I don't think my single vote will make much of a difference. So aside from donating very small amounts (what I can afford) to gay rights groups, what can I do to make a difference?
I absolutely love this idea and would like to see it happen, but what about those of us who don't have a same-sex partner we want to marry? Is there some way I can participate despite having no interest in marrying either my boyfriend or my girlfriend?
One more March? One more Parade? One more Picnic in the Park? I don't think so.
We need civil disobedience, whether it's this idea or another, or ALL the others.
Last year, over a million people participated in A DAY WITHOUT GAYS, a one-day protest we organized that reflected not only the numbers but the contribution we make to society. As a community, we give billions to a government and economy that treats us as second class citizens. Imagine if we got 10 million to take one day off work and boycott the economy across the country? That will send a louder and clearer message to everyone...not just the D.C. Park Service.
Pure genious. I'd support my brothers and sisters however possible. This issue affects us all to the very core of "what is love". Is the government qualified to decide this complex philosophical debate?
As a bi-sexual female; it is my personal query to find out how the government has the right to take away my inalieble rights to pursue my own happiness; and keep the church out of the state and the state out of my safe, sane, consentual, legal bed. Where is the Supreme Court? Where are the intellectual individuals who can think for themselves? When are we going to pull together enough to claim these rights?
Pure genious. I'd support my brothers and sisters however possible. This issue affects us all to the very core of "what is love". Is the government qualified to decide this complex philosophical debate?
As a bi-sexual female; it is my personal query to find out how the government has the right to take away my inalieble rights to pursue my own happiness; and keep the church out of the state and the state out of my safe, sane, consentual, legal bed. Where is the Supreme Court? Where are the intellectual individuals who can think for themselves? When are we going to pull together enough to claim these rights?
Right Loveschild, the one couple who decides to show up with a weapon is going to succeed. Couples who are denied access and arrested will be nowhere near the President. If one were allowed access to the President, I can guarantee you that the entry process includes a thorough search. Getting onto the White House grounds, whether or not the President will be attending whatever it is you're entering for, is like going through airport security times 10. X-rays, metal detectors, bomb-sniffing dogs, and lots of guards with weapons. I have been on the White House grounds twice since 9/11, both for official, invitation-only events, and it took FOREVER to get through security. Think for just one second about all the threats that have been made against all the Presidents in recent history, and how few of them attained anything resembling success, and you would realize the "risk of violent incident" is a stupid, stupid argument.
Love it, but if we are going to have our couples profiles, do you not think others will be prying into their private lies in an effort to "expose" them? How to be sure something so sinister does not happen?
Watch the news, hate crimes against gays are up...look at what happened in the last few weeks in this country because of crazy right-wing hate. Dr. Tiller, the security guard at the holocaust museum. Something is going to happen to one of us no matter what. We might as well make the inevitable scenes of hate and violence mean something positive. We knows it's going to happen, don't let it happen in vain.
To Issa (# 112) I think that people who support human rights for everyone including the GLBT community (but cannot get arrested for whatever reason) could voice their support. If everyone LOUDLY, clearly, kindly , and firmly mentions their support for gay marriage we will win. Arm yourself with information and rebuttals and make a nuisance of yourself in church; at their professional and union meetings; their neighbourhood meetings; at their PTA meetings ....everywhere in fact. And contact (preferably in writing) your Congressperson and Senator and let them know where you stand and what you wnat them to do. I belive activism with loving kindness (compassion) will win!
This is an EXCELLENT idea, and would have a powerful "media" effect. The subtlety is brilliant; the "drip, drip, drip" effect would be profound. By the third month (hell, the third week!), it would be a daily report on morning and evening news...
(Typically, people immediately begin taking potshots at it...)
This is a brilliant Idea I think my husband could be convinced. For those concerned that 2 people getting arrested would not show much impact, we could organize special days for mass arrests. The Obama’s anniversary, November 4th, whatever the date the first people got married in Massachusetts, Vermont, Iowa, California and so on.
I think the issue of standing is important and it should be gay couples getting arrested while families and friends watch (hopefully in tears) just like at our weddings.
The white knot ribbon campaign already exists http://www.whiteknot.org/ so this would be an easy tie in.
I also love the idea of sending toilet paper to the White House they treat us like shit so let’s give them something so they don’t have to soil their fingers. We did this with Matzah to the Soviet embassy to protest the refuse-niks during the 80’s. Was it effective? Probably not but at least you felt like you were doing something.
i'm all for civil disobedience and don't mind being arrested so sign me up
but i also plan on attending the march
maybe everybody at the march should go to the white house and demand to talk to the president instead of just walking through the streets like last time?
My boyfriend and I attended the last 2 marches on Washington. The most recent one was a joke. It wasn't a march as much as it was a gay mall. I went to demand equal rights and ended being hurded through a street fair of lube and funny gay t-shirts. I keep hearing how another march would require a lot of logistics. Maybe I'm naieve but I don't think we need speakers and sponsors. I think we should all head down to DC and lie down somewhere. Clog the streets. Clog the mall. Just lay down and refuse to move. Let them come for us. Arest us. Show them we mean business. No more Mr. nice gay! In other words I agree with Dan except I think it should be a bigger protest.
What about just calling your Congressman and Senators and asking them to SPONSOR legislation to repeal DOMA?
No bill has been introduced yet. If I recall, all of the Dem candidates thought it should be repealed, so, let's repeal it. It migh not be civil disobedience, but the squeaky wheel does get oiled...and the wheel is starting to squeak.
It is a brilliant idea! And so is the idea that #124 has (and I agree with you, #124--I too want to march for my rights far more than the sort of 'march' that goes on at Gay Pride Parades and any March on Washington).
Kudos to any couple with that is willing to risk arrest for all of us. As an old arthritic couple I doubt we would last long on the picket line. However, we are prepared to send funding for legal fees, transportation, housing, etc. I think it would be great for DC area gay/gay friendly folks to open up their homes for those willing to put it on the line. Give them a place to crash and provide some transportation. We are in the midwest and although we've been together 40 years, we can't get married in our state. I'd love to tie the know before we die.
Great idea. I'm just wondering what happens if they don't arrest anyone. If they just let the protesters have their say and basically ignore us. Can we really achieve anything if arrests aren't made?
Suffragette City @ 64, I sympathize regarding the scornful glances. Personally, I swoon over gay couples holding hands or making googly-eyes at each other.
Dan, I'm a wiz with a spreadsheet, can be up on advanced HTML within a week and am happy to maintain contact with married couples nationwide to keep them trickling forward at a day-to-day rate.
And / or, I'm willing to consolidate talking points about DOMA (and if necessary, the counter points to anti-gay and anti-gay-marriage rhetoric) so that couples are equipped if they get lucky enough to speak to someone relevant.
For some reason, the West Wing episode The Indians In the Foyer comes to mind.
Hey, I have been thinking more about the inspiration of tree-sitters. Would any couples hold hands for days on end to demonstrate that we won't be pulled apart. Or at least couples all over the country doing a day of holdings hand where we go out just in our own neighborhoods and make our presence known.
Perhaps have enough people to cordon off the White House by having couples do a sit in. Not have everyone march up, but random approaches as ordinary tourists and then they would sit next to a seated couple until the White House is surrounded by several thousands of couples--sitting silently.
Form a silent cordon of gay couples surrounding the White House--several thousand couples silently and quietly staring at the White House would unnerve anyone inside. A constant vigil with couples replacing couples every few hours.
Form a silent cordon of gay couples surrounding the White House--several thousand couples silently and quietly staring at the White House would unnerve anyone inside. A constant vigil with couples replacing couples every few hours.
My only caveat would be that 1 couple per day really is not very much...it can easily be ignored by the media (especially with the fast paced news cycles of this day). Why not 10 couples per day? I believe you'd want to hit harder and faster to get the point across. There are plenty of angry gay couples out there, I don't think it would be difficult to muster up the numbers.
This doesn't discriminate against anyone. And people are offering funding and couches for those who need it. Those who cannot go--for any reason--can participate by talking about it, supporting it vocally, or simply praying about it if they're believers. That local action you want? That's how they can participate, by talking about it locally.
Shit, why are you always such a goddamn downer?
I'm ThisClose to hiding you, Will in Seattle! Don't you fucking make me? Don't you do it!
For everyone who is interested in volunteering to make this protest happen, please visit protestforhumanrights.com
The shell is up right now just to get information out there, and I already have someone working on, but it would be great to know there are others as dedicated that are willing to donate and by "martyrs" for the cause.
I'll be standing in front of the White House from July 1-4. Maybe I'll see some of you there.
How about planning the march on Washington and inviting the President and scheduling a specific time for him to speak to our people on stage. If he's a no-show, the cameras can just roll on a moment of silence showing the empty podium- that he chose not to grace us with his attendence and we could have a long moment of silence for the silence gays experience on a daily basis. If he DID show, it would be a big symbolic victory!
YES! Thank you, Dan! Finally, someone who says publicly what I've been telling friends for weeks - civil disobedience is the best option available. I think the march will be waste of time - as a "veteran" of the Millennium March, I know of what I speak. But I think you're going small-scale on this, Dan. We need couples to go to their local government offices that issue marriage licenses, make the request, and then when denied they conduct a sit-in until arrested. This should be done every day. I'm serious. I look at the women's suffrage movement and the 60's civil rights movement as the best examples of consistent, continual civil disobeience. I'm a civil litigation attorney, but I've attended enough bail hearings in my time, so I would gladly help out on the legal end of matters. Count me in, Dan! It's time for the movement to become a force for real change, not the chump change offered by Obama & Co.
Why argue about which of the many very good ideas posted here we should act upon? Do them all! March. Get arrested at the White House. Demand marriage licenses at your town halls all on the same day. Write your congressmen and women a lot. Stand in a very big silent circle around the White House. Refuse to pay the taxes that are discriminatory.
Do all of these things. Don't let the perfect plan be the enemy of the good plan.
Dan - I'm getting dubious of the motives - perhaps you really do have the gay community's best interest in mind but there is some benefit (web traffic) to being so heavy handed in your criticism of Obama.
My POV, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We are five months into this administration which has committed to the change we want. Sure nothing's happened yet, and for good reason. Yet you are talking about a million gay march on Washington DC because change isn't happening fast enough. Is this reasonable? Forget about political expediency... even if it was... seriously... are you being reasonable? I don't think you are.
Should Obama/Biden have addressed DADT before saving GM and BofA... Or perhaps DOMA should have been repealed with the stimulus bill... or perhaps the foreclosure legislation...
This protest is noise. The President is doing a fantastic job. History is not going to be kind to this tantrum (if it remembers at all).
This idea reminds me a lot of the movie 'Iron Jawed Angels' with Hilary Swank where the women did this exact same thing for their right to vote. It worked for them, so maybe it will work for us too.
i'm sorry i'm gettin to this thread late..
i'm sittin here staring 60 years on the planet and as much civil disobediance as i've been involved in i've managed not to get arrested. it feels like now might be about the time..i like the idea of me and my husband gettin arrested on THEIR anniversary.
i'm also thinking of appealing to mrs obama on this. i mean, as first lady and all, i'm sure she rubs shoulders with some gays who can't eat at the marriage table. perhaps appealing to her may bring some more pressure to bear on the isssue.
With the current economic crisis going on, many families in poorer parts of the country have more to be concerned about than same-sex marriages. Gays and lesbians, but especially gay men, have the highest level of disposable income and can otherwise live pretty happily. To many Americans, this protest is going to look like a bunch of spoiled children kicking and screaming at a birthday party in Beverly Hills. Just saying.
Are we talking about gay and lesbians as individuals, or families headed by gays and lesbians? There is a big difference, because if we are talking about families, than the rest of us should be aware that they are also struggling to make ends meet, are facing unemployment, lack access to health insurance etc., and on top of that their viewed as second class citizens, second class families. Marriage equality is one way to protect these families, who share the same concerns as many families in poorer parts of the country. In fact some of these familes also exist in poorer parts of the country. Don't these families deserve all the same rights, protections and benefits as families headed by heterosexuals? Will there ever be a time of pristine peace and economic security in this country when it will be okay for these families to seek being treated as equal citizens under the laws of this country? Does this country first have to make everything perfect for the heterosexuals before it can consider equality for homosexuals? My thinking is there will always be some reason we can argue that they should wait, we will always be able to come up with some reason to deny their families equality. There will never be a right time, the right time is when they stand up for themselves, stand up for their families, and demand their equality.
I think gay people around the country should make both the march and some ongoing civil disobedience event happen. The messages are different, one being a broadbased thing, the other being quite specific. (I presume the march won't be just one issue.) And they will draw different levels of attention from various constituencies. My partner and I have attended every march on Washington execept the last, which seemed too slick and mainstream (HRC) for our taste. It looked, also, too much like a rock concert on C-SPAN. And did anyone expect Bush to notice? Really ho-hum.
But now the times, and the occupant of the White House and the Congress majority, has changed. Even if the march's main message is "when are you going to keep your promises?" then it will have the secondary message of "we're here today and we're not going away." The military may be dragging its feet on doing its study that will support the president's views, which are held by the majority of Americans, but if "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is still in force that's another reason to march on Washington.
A million people will come away with personal stories and memories of the big day. Let's not lose sight of that, either.
And as for not doing something because poor families somewhere have other things on their minds, and someone might think we look like "spoiled children," that big of lame whine is totally beside the point. The three grassroots marches we attended -- which drew bigger turnouts each time over the years -- we're attended by people who wanted to make several political points, change the world, etc., and do it in a VISIBLE way. It was about more than writing checks in the privacy of donors' homes, or joining a group on Facebook.
147.. as a middle aged gay living in seattle i only have health insurance through my partner's benefits through his job..dental insurance is trickier.. we live in affordable housing and at this stage of my life ( god forbid ) if something catatrophic would happen to me.. well we would be devastated finacially.. we have no disposable income and none of my gay friends don't have it either..he used to work at va hospital and while it might currently be on track to afford partner benefits, it didn't when he worked there.
can you not imagine gay families and gay people in poorer parts of the country , who have no access to nothing.. rights or services no nothing ? and what about minority gays in poor parts of this country who have even less.. please don't mistake this for some urban privilege issue..
please don't...
In addition we should withhold any campaign contributions to any Democrat (or any politician running for a national office) who does not expressly support the repeal of DOMA. Hit them where it hurts.
Let's see, rally to stop Bush invading Iraq. March against Prop 8. Works, not so much.
The sit-in protest idea has merit. Alas, it's possible to render it rather impotent. A Bushian Whitehouse would order the guards to let the couple(s) sit there, all day, all night, in the sun, the snow, the lawn sprinklers, until they're dying of thirst and tired of sitting in their [soiled] clothes. "You're not under arrest. You're under guard. You may not communicate with anyone, but you may leave any time you wish."
This type of rotating sit-in would be much less dramatic. And with Obama moving ever closer to Bush's style...
And this is what would happen... you would get arrested and then after some cool down time you would be let go. This is what happens daily at the White House. Working down the street from the White House every day we see all sorts of things. Frankly, unless its a celebrity couple a week it wouldn't matter much in the daily workings of the WHite House.
How about we actually force our gay leaders to do something other than cozy up to straight politicians. We need to take this grassroots and show we are your son, daughter, father, mother, neighbor, friend, coworker, etc? Why don't we do a nationwide "I'm Out" campaign where everyone who is gay or lesbian or an ally wheres a distinctive color to symbolically show who we are. We can also show up at our GLBT insitution meetings and demand for return on investment for our money.
Sorry, but getting arrested at the White House is not really going to make any point and in the end no record will be even on the books.
Oh and the weekend that the march is supposed to happen my partner and I are having our wedding coincidently.
I like the idea but it will only be symbolic since Obama doesn't have the power to repeal laws. This should be done to our WA congressional delegation first and then the rest of the members of Congress until they relent and repeal it. Here's a link to the Senate vote http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro… and the House vote http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll316.…. Every "Yea" vote that is still in in office should get an unfriendly visit.
For the newcomers who don't want to read every comment here-
I've started a website and message board for the organization of a protest. I will be in front of the White House from July 1-4 holding a banner with a quote from the President supporting us. I encourage everyone who is interested in civil rights to join in this effort.
If you have other ideas to forward equal rights, let it be heard in the message board. protestforhumanrights.com
If too many people sign up for the DC action, why not start one at your local County courthouse? Or if a vet, file for your same-sex spouse to be listed as your spouse.
Actions. Polite. Firm. But not taking No for an answer.
oh, hey, if you're in Seattle, people can sign up at the last minute to be in parades - this doesn't count as an action, sadly, cause parties and parades are well .. not.
What would happen if 100 gay married couples marched in the Seafair Torchlight Parade behind a float that was ... um ... heck whatever.
And stood in front of the announcers stands where the cameras were until they had been on TV for 30 minutes?
The more the merrier. I'm just giving my ideas - you should think up and ACT on your own.
I'm not on board with on this proposal, Dan, largely because I think it's too DC-centric, would probably be too top-down in its implementation, and probably wouldn't get as much press coverage after the initial arrests as you think. Also, I don't think the psychology behind two solitary people getting arrested by themselves is very healthy nor the symbolism all that great (if people are going to be arrested for civil disobedience, it really requires more communal support--the more the merrier). However, I think the image of committed gay couples knocking on the government's front door to ask for marriage is fantastic.
I would get off the fence for this counterproposal: let's set up an infrastructure (web site, organized endorsements from community leaders, widespread publicity, etc.) to encourage every gay couple in the country to knock on the doors of THEIR OWN LOCAL GOVERNMENT. Couples should go to City Hall, Governor's mansions, state legislature halls, and everywhere people with influence can do something about marriage equality. Yes, they should be willing to sit down and get arrested. And their visits could be coordinated with other couples and media via a website. However, for the most part their visits will catch the government entity off guard. A thousand news stories in a thousand local, regional, and state media markets spread out over an indefinite period of time will do a lot more to attract attention than a single, predictable top-down protest that would probably quickly become a yawnfest.
Best feature of this counterproposal: nobody will have the excuse to stay uninvolved because they don't have the airfare or connections to be one of "Dan Savage's 730 Chosen Ones". You want to protest and are willing to get arrested? Great. Just go to the website or Facebook page, pick your location, announce your plans to your online buddies, send tweets or emails to the media, and take the bus down the street to the doorsteps of the government entity that is currently part of the problem ... and then show them how they can be part of the solution.
i agree with dan on his proposal, the point of this proposal is not because some local official denied our rights--ITS BECAUSE OUR PRESIDENT GAVE US HIS WORD THAT THINGS WOULD CHANGE FOR THE BETTER UNDER HIS ADMINSTRATION--AND THEY HAVE NOT AND HE HAS BASICALLY GIVEN US CRUMBS.
the drip by drip is quite appealing to me--everyday the white house will have to deal with the issue.
i am not internet savy so i hope there are others out there to put together a campaign--i would be happy to contribute whatever i am able.
Hi Dan
We are a gay married couple, and we are up for getting arrested at the White House. Let us know when and where, and we'll be there (and at the October march, too)
Grant
Dan, as you are obviously aware, trespassing on Federal property is a crime. I hope you and the other organizers are also aware that those who consciously act to plan such crimes or otherwise aid in their commission, can be charged with conspiracy. When the Federal Marshals raid your home to arrest you and take all of your computers and external storage media for inspection, you probably won't be quite as happy with your plan.
Why bother going to D.C.? Why bother dialoging with the bigot Obama and the powers that be at all? We don't need his leadership. We don't need a leader at all. The age of strong leaders is dead. Power to the people and all... Grassroots community action. Let's STOP FIGHTING for our rights...
When gays and lesbians die, unlike every heterosexual American, everything we have scrimped, saved and sweated for will NOT go to our spouse and kids. Unlike heterosexual spouses, same-sex spouses will be forced to pay taxes an our family's nest eggs unlike ANY heterosexual American-even those heteros who marry in Las Vegas on a drunken whim. Our spouses and our children will NOT receive our Social Security benefits like every other American. There are over 1300 federal laws -examples of the ways in which our families will be ROBBED of the same basic financial rights that any straight person receives, even those living on death row as mass murderers. THIS is what the fight for "gay marriage" is about, NOT the need for social approval from hetero bigots. It is about EQUAL REPRESENTATION UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. We go to work. We pay our taxes. We pay our bills like anyone else. We contribute to our local and national communities. And for this we get WHAT?! Not even the same government representation as a heterosexual mass murderer on death row. Enough is enough.
This anti-gay caste system is a form of government enforced indentured servitude. That's right. A form of slavery. It is an untenable form of government in modern times, and it will NO LONGER be tolerated. To hell with polls and the public opinions of bigots. To hell with waiting- for what??? Like the straights, our baby boomer generation is not getting any younger! We need equal rights and protections for our families NOW. The solution is simple, and legal, though it doesn't involve begging for scraps from bigots or the powers that be, or wasting our time educating and reaching out to reprobates.
1.) Gays and Lesbians must put their federal taxes (and state taxes too if one lives in a state without marriage equality) into massive, fiscally transparent "escrow" accounts, until our taxation status is equalized. The IRS is only doing their job- they don't care who you are as long as you pay what you owe, so this is no attack against them personally, but unfortunately for them they are caught in the middle of this, so...
2.) Gays and Lesbians must stop paying into a Social Security system which will never pay out benefits to us as Gays and Lesbians. Again, a massive "escrow" account.
3.) The interest on these accounts should go toward legal representation, NOT for attorneys to introduce cases to "fight for" our rights incrementally, on a case by case basis, but purely as defensive litigators. Let the fight COME TO US.
4.) All Gay and Lesbian political donations and support to go to a third party. A party that will truly represent the people- ALL the people, without being horribly compromised by a long history of political malfeasance. A TRUE "new hope".
I think the civil-disobedience-arrest-a-day idea is brilliant, for all the reasons stated above. Sign me up -- my partner of 18 years and I will be there!
If we could get away from work (me) and class (my partner), and afford the trip from Dallas to DC, I think we'd definitely participate. This is a great idea! We just celebrated our 9th anniversary in May - this could be a late anniversary trip for us. ;-)
You can also "disobey" by boycotting the Democratic party until they wake up and stop taking us for granted. Join this Facebook group to show your solidarity: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
And you know what else would be great? A national ad hoc coalition of small business owners, owners of businesses that do BIG business at weddings - florists, photographers, caterers, bakers, tailors, DJs, etc etc etc - petitioning their elected leaders at every level. A nice big ad in the New York Times, maybe.... A letter-writing campaign, a deluge of emails....... Why should they be deprived of all those revenue dollars (especially in these hard times), because they're forced by law to discriminate against their friends and neighbors? It might be another angle from which we can approach this issue, and possibly get more people involved by considering yet another unfair financial impact of these discriminatory statutes.......
I belong to the Yahoo group Out4Immigration, which is primarily striving to get the Uniting American Families Act passed, but also serves as a support group of sorts for bi-national same-sex couples. Obama is comprising his integrity and must find the gumption to do the right thing by all of us. This would certainly give him more than a little help.
How about some single people coming, being American Citizens who cannot sponsor their loved one for immigration? I'd do it.
How about if each couple (all legally married at the state level) refuses to leave until Obama meets with them and either 1) repudiates the statements made by DOMA and the briefing, which means he could no longer let them stand politically, or 2) tells them that their marriage is not valid (and that it is comparable to incest, etc) in person, while looking them in the eye, and in front that couple's children and other family members who they will have brought with them to bear witness.
If he won't come say these things to the family, they insist and refuse to leave until arrested. If he agrees to see them but tries to smooth things over or dodge the question, they also refuse to leave until he speaks those statements personally. If he (and I don't think he would) does affirm that gay marriage is invalid and equal to incest and child rape, they would thank him for being honest about his beliefs and politely leave. Then another couple comes the next day and starts the process over again; it is likely that if he did manage to say those things to one family, he would not be able to say them to a second one.
As a conseravtive who sympathizes with you on this issue, I ask, considering how deep in the tank for Obama the press is, do you really think they would cover it?
Something like this is a really good idea. it should start exactly as you said. Well planned and organized.
But then it should spread too from first the white house, to couples showing up at congress, at the supreme court, at the houses of the legislatures in states across the country, to police stations, to military bases, to anywhere where people aren't doing what's necessary to protect the rights of gays.
As these faces appear on television, again and again and again, public support would build up like a tidal wave. The call to have these peoples be pardoned with their records expunged would start to grow. All this could and SHOULD lead up to a March. A march that will get so much more public support than you'd get if you march now. A march that includes millions of people supportive of gay rights and the people who have been arrested.
Hopefully it wouldn't even have to get that far. But if it does,it could work very well.
Everyone commenting here, offering support and a commitment to stand at the White House is great, but it takes more than words. You need to stand where your words take you.
It's time to organize. Dan gave us a great starting point, but we are all independent people that can stand on our own.
I have made a commitment to stand in front of the White House from July 1-4. When will you be there? protestforhumanrights.com
Had to wait to today to buy the ticket- payday and all. But can't wait to be in DC.
TRAVELERS
Saunatina Sanchez
FLIGHT INFORMATION
Flight: Alaska Airlines AS20
Departs: Seattle (SEA) on Tue, Jun 30 at 8:40 am
Arrives: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Tue, Jun 30 at 2:30 pm
Flight: American Airlines AA4318 (Alaska Airlines AS4333)
Departs: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Tue, Jun 30 at 5:45 pm
Arrives: Baltimore (BWI) on Tue, Jun 30 at 8:45 pm
Flight: American Airlines AA3991 (Alaska Airlines AS4116)
Departs: Baltimore (BWI) on Sun, Jul 5 at 11:35 am
Arrives: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Sun, Jul 5 at 12:40 pm
Flight: Alaska Airlines AS23
Departs: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Sun, Jul 5 at 3:30 pm
Arrives: Seattle (SEA) on Sun, Jul 5 at 6:01 pm
I'm a straight, single 21 year-old, broke beyond belief...but I'd donate what I have. And I'd wear a ribbon in support. Tell me where to get one, and I'll wear it. This needs to change.
Following up on my #177, I want to support those here who have suggested that Obama himself might not be the best person to do an action towards right now, and also that given how much strategy it takes to mount and escalate an effective CD campaign, it might be a good idea to first get in touch with Soulforce and Nonviolence4Equality and get on the same page with them, even if you plan on doing your own thing (or maybe you have already). In any case, it sounds like 2009 is going down in history!
We live in California. We would love to come to Washington, D.C. over the weekend of October 10-11. However, we are getting married in Victoria, B.C. on July 10, 2009. Our minister put us in contact with a minister in B.C. for the ceremony. Our church is going to give us a celebration sometime in July when we cross the border back into the U.S. Finally, on October 10, we are having a great reception for all of our friends and relatives who were going to be coming to our wedding here in northern California before the Prop 8 catastrophe. Our event at a local resort ought to be going on at the same time as the Washington march. We might be a West Coast contingent as we are celebrating our twenty-year relationship and our cross-the-border marriage.
Actually, I think we need to begin staging sit-ins at the premises of employers who are proven to discriminate against LGBT persons and at the homes of landlords who discriminate. Every time an LGBT person is discriminated against in employment or housing, we need to send action teams to protest and get media attention on these bigots. I have lots of other ideas too! We need to show we're not going to take discrimination laying down any more! It is time for us to move to the front of the bus!
Another idea I have is to have hundreds of LGBT people line up for marriage licenses in courthouses around the country and be denied. If we can tie up the bureaucracy with nuisance applications, we can inconvenience people enough to make them think about why this issue is so important to us. We could also flood military recruiting stations with applications to be in the military from openly LGBT people. Let's gum up the works, people!
The march is an interesting idea, but not sure who all would be left in DC government wise on that weekend.
Like Dan's idea a lot, with the right prep these couples could be great.
Maybe all of these things can happen...
I think the idea of couples being arrested may be beneficial but in my opinion the focus of such action should be at the Capitol ... ask for meetings with senators and congressmen & congresswomen.
If this can be pulled together without being insane, I think it's great.
http://www.soulforce.org/wp/?page_id=275
Information in # 107 was provided by, (who's post didn't have active links):
Then visit http://nonviolence4equality.org/ to learn more!
Posted by ChristopherH_Denver
I have decided to change my itinerary and fly to DC for that week and stand outside the White House gates from sun-up to sun-down, peacefully holding banners with quotes of the president's expressing his support for gay rights. It would be nice if I could recruit others into this, and I'm gonna try, but I'm willing to be there by myself for the week.
I'm tired of being dismissed as a wedge issue by the Democratic party who are supposed to be on our side. I am ready to stand up and challenge our government. Please stand with me.
Feel free to forward this to anyone you know that would be able to help in this cause. Not just financially, but to research the presidents quotes and get banners made up and the such. Thanks.
saunatina@gmail.com
Equal rights for the LGBT community NOW! No Excuses! No Delays!
But I don't think my single vote will make much of a difference. So aside from donating very small amounts (what I can afford) to gay rights groups, what can I do to make a difference?
We need civil disobedience, whether it's this idea or another, or ALL the others.
Last year, over a million people participated in A DAY WITHOUT GAYS, a one-day protest we organized that reflected not only the numbers but the contribution we make to society. As a community, we give billions to a government and economy that treats us as second class citizens. Imagine if we got 10 million to take one day off work and boycott the economy across the country? That will send a louder and clearer message to everyone...not just the D.C. Park Service.
We will be citizens! (Tony Kushner)
As a bi-sexual female; it is my personal query to find out how the government has the right to take away my inalieble rights to pursue my own happiness; and keep the church out of the state and the state out of my safe, sane, consentual, legal bed. Where is the Supreme Court? Where are the intellectual individuals who can think for themselves? When are we going to pull together enough to claim these rights?
I'm totally behind this very effective method.
As a bi-sexual female; it is my personal query to find out how the government has the right to take away my inalieble rights to pursue my own happiness; and keep the church out of the state and the state out of my safe, sane, consentual, legal bed. Where is the Supreme Court? Where are the intellectual individuals who can think for themselves? When are we going to pull together enough to claim these rights?
I'm totally behind this very effective method.
(Typically, people immediately begin taking potshots at it...)
I think the issue of standing is important and it should be gay couples getting arrested while families and friends watch (hopefully in tears) just like at our weddings.
The white knot ribbon campaign already exists http://www.whiteknot.org/ so this would be an easy tie in.
I also love the idea of sending toilet paper to the White House they treat us like shit so let’s give them something so they don’t have to soil their fingers. We did this with Matzah to the Soviet embassy to protest the refuse-niks during the 80’s. Was it effective? Probably not but at least you felt like you were doing something.
but i also plan on attending the march
maybe everybody at the march should go to the white house and demand to talk to the president instead of just walking through the streets like last time?
No bill has been introduced yet. If I recall, all of the Dem candidates thought it should be repealed, so, let's repeal it. It migh not be civil disobedience, but the squeaky wheel does get oiled...and the wheel is starting to squeak.
It is a brilliant idea! And so is the idea that #124 has (and I agree with you, #124--I too want to march for my rights far more than the sort of 'march' that goes on at Gay Pride Parades and any March on Washington).
Let's do this!!!
Great idea. I'm just wondering what happens if they don't arrest anyone. If they just let the protesters have their say and basically ignore us. Can we really achieve anything if arrests aren't made?
Hence why I keep saying you need local actions too.
Parades are wonderful, but action is what changes stuff.
Dan, I'm a wiz with a spreadsheet, can be up on advanced HTML within a week and am happy to maintain contact with married couples nationwide to keep them trickling forward at a day-to-day rate.
And / or, I'm willing to consolidate talking points about DOMA (and if necessary, the counter points to anti-gay and anti-gay-marriage rhetoric) so that couples are equipped if they get lucky enough to speak to someone relevant.
For some reason, the West Wing episode The Indians In the Foyer comes to mind.
Can The Stranger host a coordinating website?
My only caveat would be that 1 couple per day really is not very much...it can easily be ignored by the media (especially with the fast paced news cycles of this day). Why not 10 couples per day? I believe you'd want to hit harder and faster to get the point across. There are plenty of angry gay couples out there, I don't think it would be difficult to muster up the numbers.
This doesn't discriminate against anyone. And people are offering funding and couches for those who need it. Those who cannot go--for any reason--can participate by talking about it, supporting it vocally, or simply praying about it if they're believers. That local action you want? That's how they can participate, by talking about it locally.
Shit, why are you always such a goddamn downer?
I'm ThisClose to hiding you, Will in Seattle! Don't you fucking make me? Don't you do it!
The shell is up right now just to get information out there, and I already have someone working on, but it would be great to know there are others as dedicated that are willing to donate and by "martyrs" for the cause.
I'll be standing in front of the White House from July 1-4. Maybe I'll see some of you there.
Do all of these things. Don't let the perfect plan be the enemy of the good plan.
My POV, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We are five months into this administration which has committed to the change we want. Sure nothing's happened yet, and for good reason. Yet you are talking about a million gay march on Washington DC because change isn't happening fast enough. Is this reasonable? Forget about political expediency... even if it was... seriously... are you being reasonable? I don't think you are.
Should Obama/Biden have addressed DADT before saving GM and BofA... Or perhaps DOMA should have been repealed with the stimulus bill... or perhaps the foreclosure legislation...
This protest is noise. The President is doing a fantastic job. History is not going to be kind to this tantrum (if it remembers at all).
Although, it's only a great idea if it leads to some organizing. If you're serious about being involved, email me at demandingequality@gmail.com
If you're ready to step forward to turn this brainstorm into reality, then let's get to work!
i'm sittin here staring 60 years on the planet and as much civil disobediance as i've been involved in i've managed not to get arrested. it feels like now might be about the time..i like the idea of me and my husband gettin arrested on THEIR anniversary.
i'm also thinking of appealing to mrs obama on this. i mean, as first lady and all, i'm sure she rubs shoulders with some gays who can't eat at the marriage table. perhaps appealing to her may bring some more pressure to bear on the isssue.
Are we talking about gay and lesbians as individuals, or families headed by gays and lesbians? There is a big difference, because if we are talking about families, than the rest of us should be aware that they are also struggling to make ends meet, are facing unemployment, lack access to health insurance etc., and on top of that their viewed as second class citizens, second class families. Marriage equality is one way to protect these families, who share the same concerns as many families in poorer parts of the country. In fact some of these familes also exist in poorer parts of the country. Don't these families deserve all the same rights, protections and benefits as families headed by heterosexuals? Will there ever be a time of pristine peace and economic security in this country when it will be okay for these families to seek being treated as equal citizens under the laws of this country? Does this country first have to make everything perfect for the heterosexuals before it can consider equality for homosexuals? My thinking is there will always be some reason we can argue that they should wait, we will always be able to come up with some reason to deny their families equality. There will never be a right time, the right time is when they stand up for themselves, stand up for their families, and demand their equality.
But now the times, and the occupant of the White House and the Congress majority, has changed. Even if the march's main message is "when are you going to keep your promises?" then it will have the secondary message of "we're here today and we're not going away." The military may be dragging its feet on doing its study that will support the president's views, which are held by the majority of Americans, but if "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is still in force that's another reason to march on Washington.
A million people will come away with personal stories and memories of the big day. Let's not lose sight of that, either.
And as for not doing something because poor families somewhere have other things on their minds, and someone might think we look like "spoiled children," that big of lame whine is totally beside the point. The three grassroots marches we attended -- which drew bigger turnouts each time over the years -- we're attended by people who wanted to make several political points, change the world, etc., and do it in a VISIBLE way. It was about more than writing checks in the privacy of donors' homes, or joining a group on Facebook.
I'll see you in the nation's capital in October.
can you not imagine gay families and gay people in poorer parts of the country , who have no access to nothing.. rights or services no nothing ? and what about minority gays in poor parts of this country who have even less.. please don't mistake this for some urban privilege issue..
please don't...
The sit-in protest idea has merit. Alas, it's possible to render it rather impotent. A Bushian Whitehouse would order the guards to let the couple(s) sit there, all day, all night, in the sun, the snow, the lawn sprinklers, until they're dying of thirst and tired of sitting in their [soiled] clothes. "You're not under arrest. You're under guard. You may not communicate with anyone, but you may leave any time you wish."
This type of rotating sit-in would be much less dramatic. And with Obama moving ever closer to Bush's style...
How about we actually force our gay leaders to do something other than cozy up to straight politicians. We need to take this grassroots and show we are your son, daughter, father, mother, neighbor, friend, coworker, etc? Why don't we do a nationwide "I'm Out" campaign where everyone who is gay or lesbian or an ally wheres a distinctive color to symbolically show who we are. We can also show up at our GLBT insitution meetings and demand for return on investment for our money.
Sorry, but getting arrested at the White House is not really going to make any point and in the end no record will be even on the books.
Oh and the weekend that the march is supposed to happen my partner and I are having our wedding coincidently.
Congratulations to you both.
I've started a website and message board for the organization of a protest. I will be in front of the White House from July 1-4 holding a banner with a quote from the President supporting us. I encourage everyone who is interested in civil rights to join in this effort.
If you have other ideas to forward equal rights, let it be heard in the message board.
protestforhumanrights.com
http://www.oyoempire.com/v1/node/60
It is just the kind of action that took place during the Civil Rights movement of the 50's and 60" and the anti-war movement of the 70's.
The relentlessness of the daily press coverage is great. And, I like the idea of taking it directly to the President.
It is great also because straight people who care about civil rights in this country could participate by donating money to the protestors.
Actions. Polite. Firm. But not taking No for an answer.
This is how the miscegenation laws fell.
What would happen if 100 gay married couples marched in the Seafair Torchlight Parade behind a float that was ... um ... heck whatever.
And stood in front of the announcers stands where the cameras were until they had been on TV for 30 minutes?
The more the merrier. I'm just giving my ideas - you should think up and ACT on your own.
I would get off the fence for this counterproposal: let's set up an infrastructure (web site, organized endorsements from community leaders, widespread publicity, etc.) to encourage every gay couple in the country to knock on the doors of THEIR OWN LOCAL GOVERNMENT. Couples should go to City Hall, Governor's mansions, state legislature halls, and everywhere people with influence can do something about marriage equality. Yes, they should be willing to sit down and get arrested. And their visits could be coordinated with other couples and media via a website. However, for the most part their visits will catch the government entity off guard. A thousand news stories in a thousand local, regional, and state media markets spread out over an indefinite period of time will do a lot more to attract attention than a single, predictable top-down protest that would probably quickly become a yawnfest.
Best feature of this counterproposal: nobody will have the excuse to stay uninvolved because they don't have the airfare or connections to be one of "Dan Savage's 730 Chosen Ones". You want to protest and are willing to get arrested? Great. Just go to the website or Facebook page, pick your location, announce your plans to your online buddies, send tweets or emails to the media, and take the bus down the street to the doorsteps of the government entity that is currently part of the problem ... and then show them how they can be part of the solution.
the drip by drip is quite appealing to me--everyday the white house will have to deal with the issue.
i am not internet savy so i hope there are others out there to put together a campaign--i would be happy to contribute whatever i am able.
richard
We are a gay married couple, and we are up for getting arrested at the White House. Let us know when and where, and we'll be there (and at the October march, too)
Grant
Dan, as you are obviously aware, trespassing on Federal property is a crime. I hope you and the other organizers are also aware that those who consciously act to plan such crimes or otherwise aid in their commission, can be charged with conspiracy. When the Federal Marshals raid your home to arrest you and take all of your computers and external storage media for inspection, you probably won't be quite as happy with your plan.
The efforts already begun.
protestforhumanrights.com
When gays and lesbians die, unlike every heterosexual American, everything we have scrimped, saved and sweated for will NOT go to our spouse and kids. Unlike heterosexual spouses, same-sex spouses will be forced to pay taxes an our family's nest eggs unlike ANY heterosexual American-even those heteros who marry in Las Vegas on a drunken whim. Our spouses and our children will NOT receive our Social Security benefits like every other American. There are over 1300 federal laws -examples of the ways in which our families will be ROBBED of the same basic financial rights that any straight person receives, even those living on death row as mass murderers. THIS is what the fight for "gay marriage" is about, NOT the need for social approval from hetero bigots. It is about EQUAL REPRESENTATION UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. We go to work. We pay our taxes. We pay our bills like anyone else. We contribute to our local and national communities. And for this we get WHAT?! Not even the same government representation as a heterosexual mass murderer on death row. Enough is enough.
This anti-gay caste system is a form of government enforced indentured servitude. That's right. A form of slavery. It is an untenable form of government in modern times, and it will NO LONGER be tolerated. To hell with polls and the public opinions of bigots. To hell with waiting- for what??? Like the straights, our baby boomer generation is not getting any younger! We need equal rights and protections for our families NOW. The solution is simple, and legal, though it doesn't involve begging for scraps from bigots or the powers that be, or wasting our time educating and reaching out to reprobates.
1.) Gays and Lesbians must put their federal taxes (and state taxes too if one lives in a state without marriage equality) into massive, fiscally transparent "escrow" accounts, until our taxation status is equalized. The IRS is only doing their job- they don't care who you are as long as you pay what you owe, so this is no attack against them personally, but unfortunately for them they are caught in the middle of this, so...
2.) Gays and Lesbians must stop paying into a Social Security system which will never pay out benefits to us as Gays and Lesbians. Again, a massive "escrow" account.
3.) The interest on these accounts should go toward legal representation, NOT for attorneys to introduce cases to "fight for" our rights incrementally, on a case by case basis, but purely as defensive litigators. Let the fight COME TO US.
4.) All Gay and Lesbian political donations and support to go to a third party. A party that will truly represent the people- ALL the people, without being horribly compromised by a long history of political malfeasance. A TRUE "new hope".
Hey Ellen!
I belong to the Yahoo group Out4Immigration, which is primarily striving to get the Uniting American Families Act passed, but also serves as a support group of sorts for bi-national same-sex couples. Obama is comprising his integrity and must find the gumption to do the right thing by all of us. This would certainly give him more than a little help.
How about some single people coming, being American Citizens who cannot sponsor their loved one for immigration? I'd do it.
If he won't come say these things to the family, they insist and refuse to leave until arrested. If he agrees to see them but tries to smooth things over or dodge the question, they also refuse to leave until he speaks those statements personally. If he (and I don't think he would) does affirm that gay marriage is invalid and equal to incest and child rape, they would thank him for being honest about his beliefs and politely leave. Then another couple comes the next day and starts the process over again; it is likely that if he did manage to say those things to one family, he would not be able to say them to a second one.
But then it should spread too from first the white house, to couples showing up at congress, at the supreme court, at the houses of the legislatures in states across the country, to police stations, to military bases, to anywhere where people aren't doing what's necessary to protect the rights of gays.
As these faces appear on television, again and again and again, public support would build up like a tidal wave. The call to have these peoples be pardoned with their records expunged would start to grow. All this could and SHOULD lead up to a March. A march that will get so much more public support than you'd get if you march now. A march that includes millions of people supportive of gay rights and the people who have been arrested.
Hopefully it wouldn't even have to get that far. But if it does,it could work very well.
It's time to organize. Dan gave us a great starting point, but we are all independent people that can stand on our own.
I have made a commitment to stand in front of the White House from July 1-4. When will you be there?
protestforhumanrights.com
TRAVELERS
Saunatina Sanchez
FLIGHT INFORMATION
Flight: Alaska Airlines AS20
Departs: Seattle (SEA) on Tue, Jun 30 at 8:40 am
Arrives: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Tue, Jun 30 at 2:30 pm
Flight: American Airlines AA4318 (Alaska Airlines AS4333)
Departs: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Tue, Jun 30 at 5:45 pm
Arrives: Baltimore (BWI) on Tue, Jun 30 at 8:45 pm
Flight: American Airlines AA3991 (Alaska Airlines AS4116)
Departs: Baltimore (BWI) on Sun, Jul 5 at 11:35 am
Arrives: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Sun, Jul 5 at 12:40 pm
Flight: Alaska Airlines AS23
Departs: Chicago-O'Hare (ORD) on Sun, Jul 5 at 3:30 pm
Arrives: Seattle (SEA) on Sun, Jul 5 at 6:01 pm
Stephen and John
Another idea I have is to have hundreds of LGBT people line up for marriage licenses in courthouses around the country and be denied. If we can tie up the bureaucracy with nuisance applications, we can inconvenience people enough to make them think about why this issue is so important to us. We could also flood military recruiting stations with applications to be in the military from openly LGBT people. Let's gum up the works, people!