You are officially insane.

Your blogger pettiness is becoming clear -- Obama wants to take all the credit!!!!!

I wish you know how much you sicken the rest of the gay community sometimes
Yes, I am the only one who was upset by this stuff, the only person who took note and complained--besides the NYT, Frank Rich, Andrew Sullivan, Pam Spaulding, John Aravosis, David Mixner, Rachel Maddow, Andy Towle, et al.
Claiming Obama cited incest and child rape in the DOMA brief pretty thoroughly marks you as a clueless dumbass, Dan.
This is a blatant attempt on the part of Obama to get back in the "Friends of Slog" column.

Don't forgive him, Dan.

Not until he kisses both cheeks of your ass on prime-time television.

That's really what this is about, isn't it?
And though we've made progress, there are still fellow citizens, perhaps neighbors or even family members and loved ones, who still hold fast to worn arguments and old attitudes; who fail to see your families like their families; and who would deny you the rights that most Americans take for granted. And I know this is painful and I know it can be heartbreaking.

Uh... you mean like you and your "Justice" Department, Mr. President?

Gah. The irony and hypocrisy has reached Bush II levels.
Wait, he mentioned child rape? Where?
#5. I thought the same thing when I read that, Andrew. He either has no self-awareness whatsoever or he thinks we're completely stupid.

Or he trusts that his apologists will back him up. And StillNon is my case in point.
And though we've made progress, there are still fellow citizens, your President, perhaps neighbors or even family members and loved ones, who still hold fast to worn arguments and old attitudes; who fail to see your families like their families; and who would deny you the rights that most Americans take for granted. And I know this is painful and I know it can be heartbreaking.

There's a great take on Gibbs press conference before the cocktail party.
Lot's of circular logic about meeting with the Pentagon and Congress, then not meeting with them, then being supportive, but not actually supportive.…
Jade: you ARE stupid.

I almost can't wait until your kind either

A) ruins his Presidency by driving wedges between us and everybody else, thus losing the White House and untold other localities

B) ruins his Presidency by cornering him into drastic action and freaking the fuck out of the moderates, thus losing the White House and untold other localities

Your greed will go un-pacified for the next 8 years.

Think about it. Say it out loud.


The year two thousand and twenty

that's our next chance at electability after a Republican gets voted into office in 2012.

All of you greedy bastards make fun of us "apologists"

How about calling us "realists" instead?

He promised us he would do it. He still acknowledges that promise.

Don't fuck this up for the rest of the USA and the rest of the WORLD
(obviously 2016 would be our next chance, but we know how viciously Republicans can hold power, and will, defeat us with a sitting President)
StillNon, I'm not stupid. And neither are you.

I don't want to ruin his presidency. I was--and am--proud that I voted for him. But, no, I'm not going to ease off on the pressure. I'm not going to accept second best from him. And I'm damn sure not going to take abusive missives like the DOMA brief from his office.

And he wouldn't have it any other way. Don't worry, he can take it.
The only way this makes any sense, logically, is that the Dems are playing the same rope-a-dope game with us that Caligutard and his team played with the xtian fascist nutcases who thought they were voting for a theocracy and instead got a kleptocracy.

Well, we thought we were voting for ch-ch-ch-Change, and instead we also got a kleptocracy, but I guess that's a separate, though tangentially related, issue.

Point is, Obama will say that Congress needs to move forward on GLBT-equality, and then Harry and Nancy will say that, oh no really Obama needs to give them a legislative proposal, then Obama will say, "no, you go first, I insist." Meanwhile, any legislation that actually gets introduced gets buried, and somehow we go round and round and nothing concrete ever gets accomplished. We've seen this movie before.

The most generous explanation is that they've determined that there's just nothing in it for them politically to aim for GLBT equality, and in fact it may aggravate other groups they're trying to placate, like religious conservatives, so there's really no reason for them to do anything for us, especially when we have rich dumbasses who're gonna give 'em a million bucks no-strings-attached no matter what they do.
"...too late, Mr President."

I can't wait for Dan to don the "Kucinich/Paul 2012" campaign button.

...there's really no reason for them to do anything for us, especially when we have rich dumbasses who're gonna give 'em a million bucks no-strings-attached no matter what they do.

Boom. Spot on. Factor in those who vote Republican, those (ten) who vote Green, and those who don't vote at all, and . . . really why the hell should they give a shit?

Well, they should give a shit because it's the right thing to do, but . . . lol, right?
@ StillNon,

Try putting yourself in our shoes. To quote the freakin' New York Daily News:

40 years since the watershed event that is usually referred to as the Stonewall Rebellion... all this excitement glosses over a critical fact: Gay people have the same federal protections against discrimination in terms of the most basic civil rights that we had at the time of Stonewall.

And that is exactly: zero.


I can't wait for Dan to don the "Kucinich/Paul 2012" campaign button.

Since when does criticizing the president = taking our ball and going home? If read in context, Dan's "too late" comment doesn't mean what you're saying it means.

And, gosh, Kucinich and Paul would never run on the same ticket anyway!
Wow. I'm just so surprised that all of you don't see what Obama's doing and why. He wants the impetus for change to come from the people first-thru Congress, and then he will ardently follow but he's not going to initiate. He's a populist. He's not going to do anything unless he has the backing of the majority of Americans and right now he's pretty clear that they don't have it. He's right, I think. But society is changing and that support is eventually going to come. Probably not for a good few years though.
Where, exactly, was "child rape" discussed at all in the DOMA brief?
This is a little off topic. Lt. Dan Choi goes to court tomorrow morning at 08:00 in California. He is taking letters of support with him, if any of you are interested, here is the link:…
@ 18,

Something like 75% of Americans support repealing DADT.

What's he waiting for, 90%? 99%?
Nice speech. But I WANT ACTION!!!!!!
He's waiting for the votes in congress. Duh.
How about this.

A Million Gay Man March on Washington!

Imagine -- Dan Savage as a Gay Martin Luther King, giving the speech of his life in front of the reflecting pool.

A Million Gay Guys...Marching!

Go for it.
Here we have the first American President to give gay and lesbians and official reception in the White House and still we have some fringe gays hating on him, for shame. No other President has ever given homosexuals so much respect and be sure that if people like Aravosis, Sullivan and Savage get their way the next republican president wont give a rats ass about gays not liking him or her. Dancing queen, more like ungrateful queens. That's what should've been playing instead.
Kevin Erickson @ 23,

And why, exactly, aren't our Demoncrats in Congress delivering said votes? Share your wisdom with us.
At least Fiercy Fraud still talks pretty.

That seems to be sufficient for his battered wife syndrome afflicted apologists.
@21, then what needs to be done is to bring to bare that 70% on congress, have them draft and pass the law and I bet you dollars to donuts that Obama signs it, problem solved...
@26 I agree. The President needs to lead on this. LBJ shoved civil rights and the Great Society down Congress' throat. Why can't Obama have more balls?
@ 28,

See @ 13, paragraph 3.
@18, (somehow I know I'm going to get poleaxed for offering a view on American politics from this side of the pond, but...) err, what about leadership? Obama is in a position of enormous influence. Instead of following behind the zeitgeist, why not drag it where it needs to go? After all, isn't that what he promised to do?

(Ok, now the obligatory perspective - at least you guys are having these discussions at this level. We're still a long way off that over here...)
Wow, a TEXAN, LBJ, did more for civil rights in the United States of America than Obama. Mr. Obama, please turn out to be even more inclusive of all Americans than LBJ was.
I wonder how many indignant commenters have actually lobbied their own representatives (versus spewing vitriol on blogs like this one)

probably 5%, if that.

They all think that something is owed to them proportional to their donation.

In Dan Savage's case, his newspapers endorsement.

They ignore Democracy.

They want a refund.

They want to speak with the store owner.

They want to cuase a scene.

What they don't realize is this is the scene that they caused.

Hey Dan -- do you want to humiliate him? Embarrass him? Get your money back?

Ain't no change, man. No refunds.
I love "cuasing scenes."
Aussie Steve @ 31,

Hey it's good to get your perspective. One of the many things that's so infuriating about the lack of action on GLBT rights is that we're so far behind other nations, especially in allowing soldiers to serve openly, non-discrimination laws and recognition of family rights.

We're #23! just isn't very catchy.
@30 Well on ENDA for example, he's not waiting. Barney Frank whose ability to understand what a string cite is caused him to be deemed a traitor and an apologist, introduced it last week, which undoubtedly took hard work. Vote probably by the fall.

but status of the holdouts is here:…

give 'em a call.
Is that all you've got, you ugly mother fucker @34? A spelling error?

Here's a tip: this isn't Craigslist. People aren't desperate.

Get a new icon.
Also, 34: why don't you answer me?

What have you done for this cause, other than commenting on cluster-fuck blogs?

What have you done?
@35, Thanks Andrew. I didn't mean to hijack this thread with the plight of gays and lesbians over here - just making the observation that there's a level of dialogue happening at multiple levels of government in the US that's absent here. I fear gay rights is still a "3rd rail" in my country (to use an American term).

But I think it's important to point out that the only reason that dialogue is happening - the only reason Obama made those campaign promises and is being forced into awkward press conferences on GLBT issues - is because the community there is so vocal - because of the likes of Dan and Andrew Sullivan doing precisely the things that many of the posters here are criticising them for doing.
@38 Wow. you have no idea how I vote. Or how I contribute to the community. How I donate. And yet you make that comment? Fuck you. I have no obligation to discuss how little or how much I give to support my causes. I support my community. And I do not feel any responsibility to publish my giving history here.

BTW, I don't claim responsibility for supporting any of the following, but I want to give shout outs to Pride Foundation, Gay City Health Project, Lambda Legal, HRC, KUOW, KPLU and others.
39: I love how criticism and debate are invisible, wrong, and simply not welcome in this discussion.

Like the course of action has been settled upon. Just like the norms that they throw at us have been settled upon.

It's all hypocritically hilarious.

I love Jade. Is there a Jade fan group?
@20: Thanks for the link. Good on ya'.
"And I want you to know that I expect and hope to be judged not by words, not by promises I've made, but by the promises that my administration keeps."

He's saying right there he wants us to keep on him. He needs to be judged by his actions, not his words, but words are all he's given us. When he keeps his promises most of us will be happy to support him again. I'd rather be lobbying my Congresspeople on health care, but he's not moved on my civil rights, so I'm gonna yell loud and long until he does.
34 hours til I'm standing in front of the White House.
All of you repeating this "child rape" meme, have you actually read the brief? Completely, yourselves, with your own eyes and brains? Because, well... maybe you should?
@45 do feel free to use the handy "copy/paste" functionality built into your handy PC and share that with us.
@46 Do feel free to use the googlespace machine to look it up.
Dan, it's really pretty simple. Ask me if you still don't get it. Hilarious how they play you. Next!
How do you give us rights without exacerbating old divides? The divide here is between religious people and homophobes who would prefer we cease to exist or at least shut up and stop living our lives honestly and those gays who want to be left alone to live as we see fit.

If you are committed to not ruffling the feathers of your religious/bigot friends, you can't give us anything.
and while everyone is screaming, quietly the wheels are turning on repealing the hiv travel ban.

i honestly don't think that obama is going to make a big show out of extending rights to the glbt community. it's too contentious an issue right now in this country. i'm guessing he wants the clear majority in the house and 60+ votes in the senate for a repeal on DADT. when he gets that, the bill will probably pass through both houses in a matter of days and be on his desk on a friday afternoon.

remember how many times in his campaign people were going mad over how slowly he would act on things? i think this is the same sort of deal. of couse it's a little more troubling when people's civil rights are actually at stake.

and another thing: if the obama administration sticks it neck out too early on one of these issues and a bill fails, then the cause will likely be set back YEARS because people weren't willing to wait months to do it right.

Think you're absolutely right. Thanks for bringing some perspective.
we all need to think like #51 and just calm down for a second.

Obama does have a lot on his plate. Am I happy about this? Not really. Joe Biden's wife made it to the GLSEN awards dinner and did the schmoozing for crap's sake. The second lady or whatever the VP's wife is called seems to care more, and more punctually, than the actual president. I'm definitely not thrilled.

But Obama is running two wars, an economy, and every other issue that pops up. He really could do something, namely sign something, but #51 is right. Not everyone who voted for Obama likes the LGBT community. It is a ridiculously inflammatory issue in several parts of the nation, and while the blogging/blog commenting communities may be centered in at least gay-friendly states, the people who want DADT in place, DOMA defended and gay people shipped to Canada or someplace else are out there. Not necessarily wired in 100% of the time, but they're out there, and they have mondo political sway.

Obama shouldn't make a swift move in a public fashion on this, as much as we'd like him to. He's going to do this, but not in the spotlight, and not without being sure it won't impact the party. The Dems have always been good (or at least better than the Reps) at holding together solidarity in the party. Obama knows that adultery, drugs, violence, and so on will be bad moves for him AND his party, so he's taking the same approach with this issue.

We also need to back up and think about things for a minute. I'm angry that I can't grow up and marry who I want where I want, and that I can't visit any future partner in the hospital, but there are other issues to consider here, and the LGBT community (myself included) shouldn't think only of itself.

Finally, will everyone commenting shut the hell up about little quirks in language or things that haven't been said? Seriously? It's annoying, and immature, and what 4chan is for. Calm down, sit down, and write your congresspeople a letter if it bothers you so much either way.
I'm frustrated by the lack of progress (and especially by the backwards movement of the DOMA brief), but #51's comment is hard to argue with. It reminded me of a conversation I had with my friend (he's gay, I'm straight) when I was expressing my extreme frustration and heartbreak of the prop 8 vote. He was all calm and said reminded me that progress is rarely a straight line.

The bigger picture shows that GLBT rights are nearly inevitable.…
I don't take that inevitability to mean that we shouldn't hold Obama's feet to the fire. The faster he/congress/the DOJ actually do something, the better. History won't look back kindly on massive fuckups like the DOMA brief or the DADT discharges.

And I wonder if you have the vaguest clue how democracy works. Our representatives respond to what they hear from their constituents (or they are supposed to). So we are doing what we need to do, which is raising our issues, pressuring politicians, and keeping the issue in the forefront.

Concern trolling like yours always seems to subtly imply that we should STFU. But doing so just lets all those legislators forget about the issue. It doesn't pressure them or convince them to take any action.
@54 I think your friend had the right idea. Progress never is a straight line. And history won't be kind to the things you mentioned, and Obama is doing the "Senor Cool" thing here by keeping calm, not rushing ahead, and making sure everyone's on the same page. It may be infuriatingly slow, and it may take the line of progress and put it into a sharp turn if not a complete halt, but it's what's going on.

I'm not happy per se, but so long as some sort of progress is being made I can't go anarchistic.
@ 54,

Thanks for the link.
@4 for the win.

If you want ACTION though, you're going to have to take ACTION yourselves.

Not your friend.

YOU. Physically.

Please wait...

and remember to be decent to everyone
all of the time.

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