And though we've made progress, there are still fellow citizens, perhaps neighbors or even family members and loved ones, who still hold fast to worn arguments and old attitudes; who fail to see your families like their families; and who would deny you the rights that most Americans take for granted. And I know this is painful and I know it can be heartbreaking.
And though we've made progress, there are still fellow citizens, your President, perhaps neighbors or even family members and loved ones, who still hold fast to worn arguments and old attitudes; who fail to see your families like their families; and who would deny you the rights that most Americans take for granted. And I know this is painful and I know it can be heartbreaking.
...there's really no reason for them to do anything for us, especially when we have rich dumbasses who're gonna give 'em a million bucks no-strings-attached no matter what they do.
40 years since the watershed event that is usually referred to as the Stonewall Rebellion... all this excitement glosses over a critical fact: Gay people have the same federal protections against discrimination in terms of the most basic civil rights that we had at the time of Stonewall.
And that is exactly: zero.
I can't wait for Dan to don the "Kucinich/Paul 2012" campaign button.
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Your blogger pettiness is becoming clear -- Obama wants to take all the credit!!!!!
I wish you know how much you sicken the rest of the gay community sometimes
Don't forgive him, Dan.
Not until he kisses both cheeks of your ass on prime-time television.
That's really what this is about, isn't it?
Uh... you mean like you and your "Justice" Department, Mr. President?
Gah. The irony and hypocrisy has reached Bush II levels.
Or he trusts that his apologists will back him up. And StillNon is my case in point.
Lot's of circular logic about meeting with the Pentagon and Congress, then not meeting with them, then being supportive, but not actually supportive.
I almost can't wait until your kind either
A) ruins his Presidency by driving wedges between us and everybody else, thus losing the White House and untold other localities
B) ruins his Presidency by cornering him into drastic action and freaking the fuck out of the moderates, thus losing the White House and untold other localities
Your greed will go un-pacified for the next 8 years.
Think about it. Say it out loud.
The year two thousand and twenty
that's our next chance at electability after a Republican gets voted into office in 2012.
All of you greedy bastards make fun of us "apologists"
How about calling us "realists" instead?
He promised us he would do it. He still acknowledges that promise.
Don't fuck this up for the rest of the USA and the rest of the WORLD
I don't want to ruin his presidency. I was--and am--proud that I voted for him. But, no, I'm not going to ease off on the pressure. I'm not going to accept second best from him. And I'm damn sure not going to take abusive missives like the DOMA brief from his office.
And he wouldn't have it any other way. Don't worry, he can take it.
Well, we thought we were voting for ch-ch-ch-Change, and instead we also got a kleptocracy, but I guess that's a separate, though tangentially related, issue.
Point is, Obama will say that Congress needs to move forward on GLBT-equality, and then Harry and Nancy will say that, oh no really Obama needs to give them a legislative proposal, then Obama will say, "no, you go first, I insist." Meanwhile, any legislation that actually gets introduced gets buried, and somehow we go round and round and nothing concrete ever gets accomplished. We've seen this movie before.
The most generous explanation is that they've determined that there's just nothing in it for them politically to aim for GLBT equality, and in fact it may aggravate other groups they're trying to placate, like religious conservatives, so there's really no reason for them to do anything for us, especially when we have rich dumbasses who're gonna give 'em a million bucks no-strings-attached no matter what they do.
I can't wait for Dan to don the "Kucinich/Paul 2012" campaign button.
Boom. Spot on. Factor in those who vote Republican, those (ten) who vote Green, and those who don't vote at all, and . . . really why the hell should they give a shit?
Well, they should give a shit because it's the right thing to do, but . . . lol, right?
Try putting yourself in our shoes. To quote the freakin' New York Daily News:
Since when does criticizing the president = taking our ball and going home? If read in context, Dan's "too late" comment doesn't mean what you're saying it means.
And, gosh, Kucinich and Paul would never run on the same ticket anyway!
Something like 75% of Americans support repealing DADT.
What's he waiting for, 90%? 99%?
A Million Gay Man March on Washington!
Imagine -- Dan Savage as a Gay Martin Luther King, giving the speech of his life in front of the reflecting pool.
A Million Gay Guys...Marching!
Go for it.
And why, exactly, aren't our Demoncrats in Congress delivering said votes? Share your wisdom with us.
That seems to be sufficient for his battered wife syndrome afflicted apologists.
See @ 13, paragraph 3.
(Ok, now the obligatory perspective - at least you guys are having these discussions at this level. We're still a long way off that over here...)
probably 5%, if that.
They all think that something is owed to them proportional to their donation.
In Dan Savage's case, his newspapers endorsement.
They ignore Democracy.
They want a refund.
They want to speak with the store owner.
They want to cuase a scene.
What they don't realize is this is the scene that they caused.
Hey Dan -- do you want to humiliate him? Embarrass him? Get your money back?
Ain't no change, man. No refunds.
Hey it's good to get your perspective. One of the many things that's so infuriating about the lack of action on GLBT rights is that we're so far behind other nations, especially in allowing soldiers to serve openly, non-discrimination laws and recognition of family rights.
We're #23! just isn't very catchy.
but status of the holdouts is here:
give 'em a call.
Here's a tip: this isn't Craigslist. People aren't desperate.
Get a new icon.
What have you done for this cause, other than commenting on cluster-fuck blogs?
What have you done?
But I think it's important to point out that the only reason that dialogue is happening - the only reason Obama made those campaign promises and is being forced into awkward press conferences on GLBT issues - is because the community there is so vocal - because of the likes of Dan and Andrew Sullivan doing precisely the things that many of the posters here are criticising them for doing.
BTW, I don't claim responsibility for supporting any of the following, but I want to give shout outs to Pride Foundation, Gay City Health Project, Lambda Legal, HRC, KUOW, KPLU and others.
Like the course of action has been settled upon. Just like the norms that they throw at us have been settled upon.
It's all hypocritically hilarious.
He's saying right there he wants us to keep on him. He needs to be judged by his actions, not his words, but words are all he's given us. When he keeps his promises most of us will be happy to support him again. I'd rather be lobbying my Congresspeople on health care, but he's not moved on my civil rights, so I'm gonna yell loud and long until he does.
34 hours til I'm standing in front of the White House.
If you are committed to not ruffling the feathers of your religious/bigot friends, you can't give us anything.
i honestly don't think that obama is going to make a big show out of extending rights to the glbt community. it's too contentious an issue right now in this country. i'm guessing he wants the clear majority in the house and 60+ votes in the senate for a repeal on DADT. when he gets that, the bill will probably pass through both houses in a matter of days and be on his desk on a friday afternoon.
remember how many times in his campaign people were going mad over how slowly he would act on things? i think this is the same sort of deal. of couse it's a little more troubling when people's civil rights are actually at stake.
and another thing: if the obama administration sticks it neck out too early on one of these issues and a bill fails, then the cause will likely be set back YEARS because people weren't willing to wait months to do it right.
Think you're absolutely right. Thanks for bringing some perspective.
Obama does have a lot on his plate. Am I happy about this? Not really. Joe Biden's wife made it to the GLSEN awards dinner and did the schmoozing for crap's sake. The second lady or whatever the VP's wife is called seems to care more, and more punctually, than the actual president. I'm definitely not thrilled.
But Obama is running two wars, an economy, and every other issue that pops up. He really could do something, namely sign something, but #51 is right. Not everyone who voted for Obama likes the LGBT community. It is a ridiculously inflammatory issue in several parts of the nation, and while the blogging/blog commenting communities may be centered in at least gay-friendly states, the people who want DADT in place, DOMA defended and gay people shipped to Canada or someplace else are out there. Not necessarily wired in 100% of the time, but they're out there, and they have mondo political sway.
Obama shouldn't make a swift move in a public fashion on this, as much as we'd like him to. He's going to do this, but not in the spotlight, and not without being sure it won't impact the party. The Dems have always been good (or at least better than the Reps) at holding together solidarity in the party. Obama knows that adultery, drugs, violence, and so on will be bad moves for him AND his party, so he's taking the same approach with this issue.
We also need to back up and think about things for a minute. I'm angry that I can't grow up and marry who I want where I want, and that I can't visit any future partner in the hospital, but there are other issues to consider here, and the LGBT community (myself included) shouldn't think only of itself.
Finally, will everyone commenting shut the hell up about little quirks in language or things that haven't been said? Seriously? It's annoying, and immature, and what 4chan is for. Calm down, sit down, and write your congresspeople a letter if it bothers you so much either way.
The bigger picture shows that GLBT rights are nearly inevitable. http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/movab…
I don't take that inevitability to mean that we shouldn't hold Obama's feet to the fire. The faster he/congress/the DOJ actually do something, the better. History won't look back kindly on massive fuckups like the DOMA brief or the DADT discharges.
And I wonder if you have the vaguest clue how democracy works. Our representatives respond to what they hear from their constituents (or they are supposed to). So we are doing what we need to do, which is raising our issues, pressuring politicians, and keeping the issue in the forefront.
Concern trolling like yours always seems to subtly imply that we should STFU. But doing so just lets all those legislators forget about the issue. It doesn't pressure them or convince them to take any action.
I'm not happy per se, but so long as some sort of progress is being made I can't go anarchistic.
Thanks for the link.
If you want ACTION though, you're going to have to take ACTION yourselves.
Not your friend.