Good thing too! Those GSA-types are a menace! I mean, they're positively EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK these days! And they even have the gall to solicit inside places like grocery stores! It's like, they're an organized conspiracy or something! Not to mention the abject HARM they cause - to my wallet, to my waste line, to my cholesterol levels!

They're a menace, I tells ya' a MENACE!

And something should be done! By someone! And by gum, I'm gonna lodge a complaint! Just as soon as I - *chew!!* - finish - *crunch!* - this box of - *gulp!* - Samoas...

Can we get rid of the Ladouchies and the Socialists too while we're at it?

Girl Scouts are basically crack dealers.

how about those greenpeace solicitors? i've seen them harass people

How about just anyone who talks to you on the street, ever.

Why *shouldn't* the laws apply equally to everyone?

Personally I would love to see children's organizations funded some other way besides selling overpriced junk door to door. Hated doing it when I was a girl scout/student, don't like being bothered for it now. Taxes: a great way to fund schools.

I was the official cookie mom for my daughter's troop a few years back. Those poor girls only made $0.10 a box, the remainder went to Little Brownie Baker. That is not much for the amount of hours they put into selling them. Hours of standing in inclement weather to make $0.10 per box ruined the flavor of GS cookies for me. And, now I understand that they put even less in the box, they raised the price, and that the girls are still making the same percentage per box. So, I just do a flat donation now.

If the Thin Mints were the same Thin Mints they made years ago (with the thin layer of mint frosting above the cookie then coated in chocolate) then the loss of the Girl Scouts would piss me off.

And yeah, does this get rid of Children's International? Then hell, GO FOR IT!!!

everyone on the street should sell cookies,,, like "real change".. "Real cookies" from real cool street people!

I was thinking about why there is so much more panhandling here (and I'm including the activist fundraisers who pretend you're their bestest friend) than in Chicago, and I don't think it's because of aggressive panhandling laws. Chicago has them, and yes, the cops can be mean there, but we all know that laws and mean cops don't stop the aggressive ones when the cops aren't there.

No, I think the difference is that they get told to fuck off a lot more and more forcefully there than they do here. People here are really reluctant to express their displeasure with being hassled.

Anyway, the things this bill would prohibit aren't necessarily hallmarks of aggressive panhandling. This just allows for more selective enforcement (despite Nate Van Duzer's assertions otherwise) and wouldn't really do anything about the really threatening jackasses.

instead of addressing the actual problem.

Burgess' anonymous constituent might do well to learn about increasing incidences of spanging: aggressive panhandling undertaken by people who are neither homeless nor especially poor. Addressing the "actual" problem isn't going to do shit about that.

Ever get the urge when walking down Pike to re-enact that scene in Airplane! when he just kicks the shit out of every person with a clipboard or a cup? It comes to me every spring, like sunshine.

Yeah, not even the basest moran would read the aide's "would apply equally" to mean "will be applied equally". Funny blogsmanship though.

Although I do agree with Lee. If no one gave panhandlers money, panhandling would go away.

Last time they were selling some, one of them had her college-aged sister wearing the girl scout vest and hat, pitching cookies.

If that's not brutally aggressive soliciting, I don't know what is.

When panhandling is outlawed, only outlaws will panhandle.

.......... ?

Yeah, it sucks to be reminded that there are poor people, huh?

Is there any way we can get this ordinance to cover those horrible kids with the clipboards who want to shake my hand on every downtown street corner? Someone must love them. Just not me.

This jackoff discussion about Girl Scouts does nothing to make me want to allow panhandlers near ATMs.

If GSA sold "special thin mints" made with pot butter, they'd sell like gold, especially in Seattle.

YOUR URB IS FULL OF BUMS.

They can pry those Girl Scout Cookies out of my cold dead hands!

@24: Your bum is full of herbs.

Kim @9: Not a big cookie fan here, but a big supporter of GSA. I just pay $5 for a $4 box. Then at least the locals get something.

@24: Make more sense, Bailo.

@12:
Actually, it's because the Chicago winters are way too cold for street people. Same goes for St. Paul/Minneapolis, where no one tells anyone to fuck off.

gloomy gus....... What??

@30: That's definitely true. The street people there (and they are there) are all at least sane enough to find their way through the winter, or they don't exist the following spring. But, there is still the matter of the Greenpeace/Children's International sorts. They're a lot more aggressive here in Seattle, and easily x20 times as annoying as the asswipe who naps on the sidewalk by my grocery store with a sign begging for money.

the panhandlers aren't 'poor', they're homeless. they are addicted to meth, alcohol, heroin. they are crazy, literally crazy. they are estranged from their families. the percentage of transients i see every day that are 'spanging' is low. most are genuinely sleeping, peeing, and pooping outdoors in the rain. right outside my garage every morning.

burgess is pandering. this is nowhere near a solution to the transient problem in seattle. it is just another enforcement tool for the cops. the only good i can imagine from this is that it could be a pretense to dry them out in jail, medicate them, figure out who the fuck they are and where the fuck they're from, call mom and dad, then put them on a bus or train back there. but we only believe in half measures.

Fuck Childrens International. Those pricks can drown in their own self-righteousness for all I care. If I was drunk enough, I'd cock punch every one that gives me shit for ignoring them. Especially the ones with dreadlocks. They all need to go back to moms basement in Issaquah and listen to their Ben Harper imports, those dickbags. The only thing that kept them from turning into another I-miss-the-90's Westlake Park hot topic re-run is the lack of incest.

/anger.

Where do all these Children's International people hang out? I've never seen them.

I'm always running into the the ASPCA people, but they're pretty mellow.

@35: Pine - Union and 2nd - 5th, mainly. That's where I've encountered them at least.

Seriously, let's organize an event where we just strike back at the clipboard people. They are the fucking scum of the Earth.

Fucking A, just say no. Stop being threatened because someone invades your elitist bubble. Man this town is full of self-righteous idiots.

@39 Sending the clipboard people to your apartment in 5..4..3..2..

@5 - but so is Greenpeace, Childhaven, and all those other groups panhandling from innocent people trying to use the sidewalk.

I thought I was the only one running into aggressive panhandlers lately. Recently I had a panhandler follow me for 3 blocks before leaving me a lone, and then a couple of days later I had another guy follow me a couple of blocks and then grab my arm to try and stop me from going into work. The guy grabbing me kind of freaked me out. I just didn't expect it. I guess I should have, he was pretty wired.

Now if it had been a girl scout I think I could have taken her. Since they travel in packs though, I probably would have just gotten a box of thin mints.

On a side note, a panhandler was arrested last year for stealing money from ATMs. He would panhandle by an ATM waiting for someone to forget their card in the machine and when they left he would withdraw cash from their account. The police said it was pretty common downtown and in the U-District.

So, the moral to all of this - no ATM means no cash, no cash means no thin mints. Damn.
Bad, panhandler, bad.

Lucky girl scouts, with cookies to sell. In boy scouts we were hawking bags of manure piled on a little red wagon. PR fail. And my scoutmaster didn't even molest me. Much.

I'm glad to see the common sentiment that holding clipboard, cookie or newspaper does not mean you are in any way greater than a panhandler. I've been saying this about Real Change dealers since the program's inception; It's still begging. It's all good, but it isn't change.

I have to say I agree with :"Down with the clip board people!!"

Way worse than the panhandlers and way more aggressive, everyday ambushing me when I'm tired and trying to get to my bus. Much easier shaking off panhandlers.

No one is talking about the christmas season bell ringers. How-do-you-do-sir my ass! They greet me whenever I buy groceries, which to me is like saying "Don't pretend you don't see me here ringing this bell...you KNOW you should give me money, if you were a good person" well, maybe I just have always disliked bell-ringers in any venue. Even door chimes. Damn you 7Eleven, damn you and your door chime!! aaaaahhhhhhh!

Would this law apply to those LaRouchers that aggressively panhandle me to get rid of Obama?

Like I said on Publicola I suspect this is going to step all over the 1st.

You know that all of othose clipboard kids are being dispatched by basically the same organization, right?

It's just like the PIRGs, it's the worst job ever, and they don't do it because they're "into the cause" for the most part. They do it because the economy blows and those groups will hire ANYONE, immediately. They mostly fundraise for lobbyist groups.

But holy god, they are so freaking annoying.

The GSA doesn't really have any right to set up shop on street corners or in front of stores. Back when I was young, this sales tactic was seen as brazen. Now, it seems the norm (and somewhat lazy). The girls I've seen are actually pretty nice and polite. I buy to show support and not necessarily for the once-delicious thin mints.

What happened to going door-to-door or having a parent or guardian sell them at the office?

As far as the homeless go, I agree with Max about this. However, I do know for a fact that some of the panhandlers do have homes (decent supported housing) in the city and receive monthly incomes. They are not seeking money for food - they already get that. They want it for drugs.

Others are indeed homeless, but how do you tell the difference? I don't know.

The GSA doesn't really have any right to set up shop on street corners or in front of stores. Back when I was young, this sales tactic was seen as brazen. Now, it seems the norm (and somewhat lazy). The girls I've seen are actually pretty nice and polite. I buy to show support and not necessarily for the once-delicious thin mints.

What happened to going door-to-door or having a parent or guardian sell them at the office?

As far as the homeless go, I agree with Max about this. However, I do know for a fact that some of the panhandlers do have homes (supported housing) in the city and receive monthly incomes. They are not seeking money for food - they already get that. They want it for drugs.

Others are indeed homeless, but how do you tell the difference? I don't know.

Living Downtown, i feel like the panhandlers have gotten really aggressive, but yeah, no doubt that the clipboard kids are ten times worse. Even if you politely blow them off, they get in your face to tell you what a mistake you're making. I've had various get on my case for not shaking their hands (germaphobe, yes I am), block the sidewalk so i can't move past, one shoved his gnarly half eaten sandwich in my face trying to get me to eat some and further engage me in his cause. I'd rather the homeless berate me for not giving them my change, cigarettes, time etc, then deal with any of those kids again.

And I got no beef with girl scouts. They are aggressive and recruit older sisters and whatnot, but they're girls. I just say no and they leave me alone.

Downtown Seattle has the worst panhandlers in the country. I've had them grab me, yell at me, block my path, and saw one spit on someone once.

I just got back from NYC, and they were downright pleasant there compared to Seattle. As soon as I returned, I witnessed a screaming maniac on Pike Street. A cop stood there and did nothing while this obviously crazy (and seemingly dangerous) guy screamed and swore at everyone he passed.

I saw nothing like that in NYC.

They're just little girls... I can't believe seeing little girls sell cookies while using an ATM was a "nerve-racking experience" for the anonymous writer. If you think that's scary then just try being the one who has to sell cookies to weight-conscious Seatllites during the toughest economic times in decades.
Just stay indoors if you can't handle the real world.

@53
My understanding is west coasters get more meth (easiest to make in desert climes) while east coasters get more crack. Having known people who've switched from one to the other: meth makes a panhandler much more crazy.

@55
I know, and I've therefore stopped donating money. What's GSA's stated stance on sexual orientation?

we may be annoyed, but people have rights. Making laws against things that make us feel uncomfortable is walking a very fine line. Just suck it up and look away.

ok.. I am new and have never posted to a blog before.. after reading all of the comments on this.. I am prepared to hear a lot of crap back.. haha.. so here it goes..

I am a girl scout leader and have been for 11 years now. In the above posts there are some misunderstanding about the organization and our cookie selling "tactics" :) First off.. girl scouts are not just little girls, they are girls anywhere from K-12th grade, which means 5-18 years old. K

So, when you see a high school girl in a vest or even a cookie costume, she isn't selling for her little sister, she is selling for herself. A lot of times, in the instance of my troop, it is for international trips or their Gold Award project (equivalent to the Eagle Scout). The girl scouts have very strict rules on how girls can raise money and due to many misconceptions about girl scouts being in elementary school only, it is VERY hard for older girls to sell cookies. Only these older girls are allowed to sell in downtown Seattle. The council makes arrangements with the businesses that allow us to set up in front of their store and we get time slots to choose from. Like downtown we can only be there from 11am-6:30pm.

Out of a $4 box of cookies, the troop itself keeps $.69 per box, $.27 goes to program support, $.18 to girl incentives, $.26 to administration, $.48 to camp program and property, $.27 to outreach, $.91 to neighborhood troop services, $.09 capitol projects and equipment, and $.85 to little brownie baker.

"Every girl should have the opportunity to participate in Girl Scouts: to develop courage, confidence, and character, make the world a better place, and become one of our future leaders" from the Girl Scouts of Western Washington website. Because girl scouts is for EVERY girl, it does mean EVERY girl regardless of sexual orientation.

As for why we don't go door to door anymore, we still can. My high school girls actually wanted to. They walk for blocks and blocks and blocks only to hear "sorry, I already bought from the brownies at Safeway." Plus not everyone has a neighborhood, like rural areas and not everyone's neighborhood is safe to go door to door. I think the view is that it just gives every girl a fair chance to raise money for camp and for their troop activities regardless of where they live. Some kids don't have parents willing to take them out to sell and don't have the money just to give them. So if I can grab a couple of these kids and take them into the city to sell and work for something they really want, I am going to do it.

We have been downtown selling. We have seen a lot of interesting things. The girls have had 2 negative responses to their selling this year, profanities yelled at them. But out of the 28 hours we spent downtown last weekend, most people were very positive. Some people wanted pics with them, some took video of them dancing around in cookie costumes, they dance with the ride the ducks tour as it drives by, they have had a great time down there. I know it can get annoying.. I stood there with them the whole time. They are just trying to entertain the people and have a good time while they are working toward their goal. If you don't want any cookies, just walk by. No one is going to chase you down, touch you, or go crazy on you. It's two and a half weeks out of the whole year and it really is for a good cause.

I know this is SUPER long and I apologize. I just wanted to inform. These girls aren't out there to harass you, they don't want to piss you off, they don't mean any harm. I can't speak for all of them because I have seen my fair share of annoying girls and bad parents/leaders. But we aren't all bad. I have 6 girls, 4 of which are/were cheerleaders (my point being that they aren't social outcasts like one may think of high school girl scouts:) These girls are goal focused, they are learning leadership, they are learning that if they work hard enough they can accomplish anything. They have sold cookies and gone on a trip to D.C., New York, on a cruise, and they do a TON of community service. If they are doing all of this, the goal is that they won't be the next homeless person panhandling on the streets of Seattle. They aren't on the streets now, they have a safe place and a safe group they can be with and escape the pressures of high school and just be them. I do what I do to keep them out of trouble and provide them with a safe place.

Thanks for reading and go easy on me.. :)

To all of those who said negative things about panhandlers in your comments: IF I HEAR ONE MORE PERSON CALL A HOMELESS MENTALLY ILL PERSON A DEROGATORY NAME I WILL MAKE SURE THAT THEY WILL REGRET THE MINUTE THEY LEFT THEIR BED. (and yes, those addicts you see, they are mentally ill too!)

I mean, really? Of all the people to get angry at? I know you don't make enough money and you have too much debt. I know that you would like a car that wouldn't break down every six months with a $500 price tag, and I know you work too hard for too little, but don't take it out on the most vulnerable in our communities, take it out on the people who deserve it, those in power who don't fix the problems but ignore them and put bandaids on symptoms that aren't the root of the disease. Tim Burgess is a hateful hateful man who would rather paint the poor and homeless as the villains here rather than pointing the finger at people in power. People who could fund mental health programs and healthcare for those who need it the most. PLEASE LIKE HIM. But, change on that level is hard. It is much easier to go after the weak. But, TOO BAD IT BACKFIRED!!

LET HIM FOREVER BE KNOWN AS THE POLITICIAN WHO HAD THE GULL TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHTS OF GIRL SCOUTS IN A POOR ATTEMPT TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK PRODUCTIVE.

AND! Shame on you people who treat those who resort to panhandling poorly, may you never have to be in their shoes.

*steps off soap box*

oh, i meant PEOPLE LIKE HIM, not PLEASE LIKE HIM...the mistakes you make when typing too fast while in a fit of passion...sigh.