Comments

1
I hadn't heard for sure that he was gay, but I suspected that might be why he committed suicide. That is heart rending. I love Roseanne's post...that's what I wish I could say to all of the young gay people who'd rather die than face the rejection: I'll be your mom, your sister, your aunt--whatever family you lose, I'll step into the gap.
2
Dan, can you make this argument without touting salacious gossip?

Merely linking to some blog that parrots what they saw on the cover of the National Enquirer doesn't distance you from spreading garbage.
3
@1, that was my thought immediately upon hearing about this boy's suicide - that he was Gay and rejected and vilified by his church. @2, the National Enquirer isn't the only news source that is reporting that he was Gay. He was attending FIDM, for Christ's sake. Do you think good straight Mormon boys go to fashion design school?
4
@3

1. Read.
2. Post.
5
Now THIS is some fucked up shit, and I thank Dan for posting it. Thank you for the concern trolling elenchos, but there's more journalistic integrity in that link you so gleefully disparage than you'll find on CNN (Hi Wolfe!). It reported who said what, and did their best to cite their sources. If you don't care much for their sources, it's up to you to decide how to interpret the information. But everything was pretty straight-forward reporting. You'd think it was rocket science the way most journalists perform today.

Now, I'm not one to believe anything of what the NE says, but the pieces fit for their story. Adopted gay son into a restrictive religion, commits suicide. Also, Mommy had issues w/ depression & suicide, so there's your answer right there if you were wondering why the kid chose suicide to deal w/ his problems. Is there more to the story? I'm sure there is. But I think what's being reported has enough substance to not dismiss it out of hand.
6
@4

1. Bite.
2. Me.

That the National Enquirer reports a piece of news doesn't mean it is false or that it is trash. You've just got a hard-on for picking at anything Dan posts.
7
Is it known whether he was gay? It doesn't make sense given that his sister is an out lesbian and his mom, Marie, is pro gay. It sounds more like Rosanne looking for headlines again, her screed doesn't match what's known about Marie or her family.
8
I didn't know he was adopted.
9
Marie Osmond is not a bigot Dan, according to Wikipedia:
As of April 29, 2009, Osmond revealed that her oldest daughter, Jessica, is a lesbian and had been living with her girlfriend for the past three years in Los Angeles. This goes against her Mormon faith, but she has stated she will do whatever it takes to make her children happy.
10
@9: And no scholar lets a student cite from the highly reliable, accurate, and peer-reviewed Wikipedia.
11
@10
knowledge by way of democracy... how dare you speak out against it. /sarcasm

Seriously even if that's true, I don't care that she *states* she's pro-gay, and that she 'just wants her kids to be happy'. Religious people are notorious for saying that they want you to be happy, when they actually believe that the only way to be happy is to drink their cool-aid. We have no idea exactly how supportive she is, and she certainly isn't getting any help from her community in that.

If her son is gay (and I think he probably was), I blame her church, her community, and her for his death.
12
@10: Be that as it may, it is still plausable. Who is anyone to say that she is bigot anyway? Is a Mormon, or Catholic, or Jew, automatically a bigot for not leaving a homophobic religion because their children are gay?
13
@12

It would sure stop me from visiting home for the holidays. And unless they were actively trying to change the policies of their church, then I would say yes.
14
@13: Fair point. I just hate to see Marie kicked around while she's down.
15
@12

Everyone who is not gay and does not agree w/everything Dan says is a bigot, didn't you know that? Hell, even some of the gay ones are too. If they're christian.
16
"And since we don't know which children are going to be gay or lesbian until they grow up, um, maybe we shouldn't let religious bigots adopt at all."

Fucking brilliant.
17
Dan. You are giving gay people a bad name. Stop already. You seem a bit obsessive. Why are so stuck on bashing straight people?
18
Regarding not knowing whether someone is gay or lesbian until they grow up, don't gay kids know they're gay? I'm asking this as an honest question. I knew I was straight as a little kid. Not that I knew what "gay" or "straight" meant, but I knew who I was attracted to.
19
It's a fair point that gays are not likely to demonize any straight adopted kids and drive them to suicide. maybe they *should* be the only ones allowed to adopt. At least in Utah.
20
Telsa Grills, most professors don't allows students to cite directly from Wikipedia because five years ago it was largely apocryphal. Since then, it's become highly accurate, comparible to Britannica or World Book especially concerning the kinds of academic and technical topics (e.g. nations, elements, mathematics, historical events, classical biographies, etc.) that are covered in conventional encyclopedias. For topics that are fringe, controversial or changing due to current events, Wikipedia is commonly annotated to a fault for lack of clear verification (as well as style and organizational concerns).

And yes, Wikipedia cites peer-reviewed sources when such materials are available to be referenced. It is immensely peer reviewed, itself, as you can quickly discover by attempting to contribute questionable (even if factual) information to an article. It's policed to a fault.

A given article may be inaccurate, as is the case with any encyclopedia, but it's fallacious to assume that all Wikipedia articles are untrustworthy. By a margin of magnitudes, most are, and then you can always follow the footnoted sources, themselves.
21
#19 said, "It's a fair point that gays are not likely to demonize any straight adopted kids and drive them to suicide."

Nicely stated.
22
Betsy Ross, kids go through different phases as they transition through puberty from a child to an adult, during which there's a lot of potential for gender confusion. Girls are commonly known to engage each other intimately, as a precursor to engaging boys, but boys will also (less commonly) sometimes experiment with each other before finding the courage to approach girls.

It gets more complex since girls can begin puberty as early as eight and as late as sixteen. Boys start as early as twelve and as late as eighteen. During the process an adolescent's preferences for one sex or the other can swap multiple times before his or her identity (as gay, mostly gay, bi, mostly het or het) is established.

(And then adults can change their minds, and often do, but that's a different topic.)

During the developmental years of puberty, kids often get discovered in their activities, and often branded based on the circumstance, not just because we're homophobic as a society, but because we're erotophobic as a society, and are terrified of our kids growing up at all, let alone into something aberrant. Hence, a trio of boys caught circle-jerking can be branded as fags long before any of them have any idea who they are or what they like.

It's the American way.
23
Regarding the headline, we actually do let racists adopt black kids, or kids of ethnicity. Most of the time, it's a self regulating problem; racist parents will not accept a non-white child or one with significant health issues. On rare occasion, particularly in the upper-middle and upper classes you'll have families who will adopt a child (usually a foreign born from a third-world nation) as a status symbol to prove to themselves and their peers that they are not racist, but such kids often serve as a device of conscience so that they can keep their daughters from marrying boyfriends of color, or keep Colin Powell from presidential ambitions, and still have something to reassure themselves that they have cosmopolitan sensibilities.
24
Should we let Heterophobic Haters adobt straight kids?
What kind of self-loathing is The Kid growing up with?
25
Is there any evidence that Bryan was Gay, other than Barr's screed?
According to the article Dan linked (not, of course, that Dan READS the stuff he links...) Bryan's closest friend, and the person to whom he addressed his suicide note, says that Bryan was not gay.
Not that it matters (Osmond does have a Lesbian daughter and has dealt with it as sensitively and supportively as anyone, (except Dan, of course) could hope) but it seems it would be nice to know before continuing the discussion.
27
I fail to see how this is "bashing straight people" STFU already.
28
My first thought when I heard this was that he was gay. Even if his mother was supportive of her lesbian daughter, she wasn't the only influence in his life and for some people it is easier to be supportive of lesbians than gay men.

I really don't know the whole truth and maybe we never will but the point that anti-gay bigots should not be allowed to adopt because we don't know if the child will be gay is a good one.
29
i'll admit i didnt get all the way through that tabloid, but, are we to assume this had anything to do with his sexuality? is there evidence thats why he killed himself?

btw that blog entry by roseanne really puts tabloids to shame as far as using others pain for selfish purposes.

also, theres alot of parents that have an 'official' position against gays, have a gay kid, accept it, and the kid knows theres real love there. in some communities/ cultures its hard for them to get past formalities, but its accepted in a subtle way, and theres no love lost. humans are complex sometimes. i dont think we know what happened with this suicide yet.
30
noone should be aloud to adopt until we can thoroughly determine the sexual preference of the CHILD and get a stereotypical idea of the parents POLITICS. because what makes a good person, a good parent, is their bullshit rhetoric. not whats in their heart. or maybe even their criminal record. if it were up to me, only transexuals would be allowed to adopt, and all children would undergo a strict screening process to see how they respond to rupaul songs.
31
@28: yeah totally. the first thing i think about anytime i hear about someone's skull fatally cracking on the pavement is their sexual orientation.
32
Although I kind of agree with the sentiment, I feel that we'd be letting ideology trump welfare of children.
33
The title of this blog, and comments @23 make the assumption that all racists are white. No white racist would adopt a black kid, but a black racist might. Racists do come in all different races.
34
17
Should someone who hates straights be allowed to adopt a straight kid?
35
Actually, Dan brings up a good point. Any child up for adoption should not be adopted until said child makes a 100% determination as to his or her own sexual preference, so that he or she can be adopted by the appropriate family. This will probably generally take place at puberty or later, so until that age, all children up for adoption shall live in orphanages, rather than us risk them being placed with the wrong sort of parents. Also, from this day forward, the National Enquirer and Roseanne Barr are considered legitimate news sources.
36
@34: No, they shouldn't. Gays who hate straights are just as moronic and intolerant as straights who hate gays. The difference is that not only does a much greater fraction of straights hate gays than vice versa, nobody's trying to legally take civil rights away from straights. Get your head out of your ass.
37
Society and Culture

“African children can suffer additional risk because of many cultural and traditional practices which are harmful. Example of such cultural practices include Female Genital Mutilation, using children as Domestic Servants, Widowhood and Inheritance rites, Child Marriages, reliance on extreme forms of Physical Punishments as ways of disciplining children as well as the belief in and practice witchcraft and the accompanying branding of children as witches or as possessed by evil spirits”. Source: Northamptonshire Local Authority, 5 October 2009 [9.15]

http://culture-kissedangel.blogspot.com/…
38
“African children can suffer additional risk because of many cultural and traditional practices which are harmful. Example of such cultural practices include Female Genital Mutilation, using children as Domestic Servants, Widowhood and Inheritance rites, Child Marriages, reliance on extreme forms of Physical Punishments as ways of disciplining children as well as the belief in and practice witchcraft and the accompanying branding of children as witches or as possessed by evil spirits”. Source: Northamptonshire Local Authority, 5 October 2009 [9.15]
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/society…

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