Treating people badly often originates from a well of hurt, it doesn't excuse it, though.
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Apart from that, congrats! Best tidings to you both. Don't let this shit get you down on a happy day.
Treating people badly often originates from a well of hurt, it doesn't excuse it, though. Again, so sorry.
Congratulations, to you and your beloved. Best wishes for a joyous and peaceful future. *Hat tip*
That said, I don't have a problem with patrons at a gay bar respectfully telling a straight woman (I know, this person wasn't) or her bachelorette party "thanks, but no thanks". Something along the lines of "Congrats on your marriage, but I hope you remember the majority of people in here can't do the same."
What the fuck are you talking about?
This idea that people "look straight" is really antiquated, no?
.. congratulations on your wedding. love well.
Had I seen that shit going down- I would have definitely come to your aid.
What the fuck are you even accusing me of?
Thinking that the expansion of rigid sex/gender/appearance roles to from straights to queers is a bad thing?
Ok. Guilty as charged.
...what the fuck does 'ghetto' mean ?
Kim in Portland:
I appreciate the sentiment. Most people don't mean to be mean.
Does this go for gang-unit officers and prone suspects?
Homosexuals are just horrible horrible people.
Especially in Seattle.
I of Latino heritage and one time a gay guy at a popular gay bar asked me for "my papers." He was trying to put me down and insult my heritage and undermine my dignity. Didn't work. My drink accidentally happened upon his fancy white shirt (cranberry vodka). The bouncer, who knew me from my commuity volunteering, did not say a thing as I left and didn't return for over a year. Yeah, people are mean even us gays. I have had similar incidents at other places (I will be kind an not name them).
NO MORE BACHELORETTE PARTIES IN GAY BARS
Can't really deny someone their right to say that, but why is it *so* important to make that point to somebody (not to mention somebody who may well already remembers it perfectly)?
I mean, I see this as along the lines of somebody making a point of telling me they don't celebrate Christmas if I wish them one. Naturally, I'd respect that and make a note to skip that particular phrase around you in the future, but I'm just using seasonal shorthand for niceness -- as an atheist who doesn't actually "celebrate" celebrate Christmas -- so jeeeebus. Please distinguish between somebody sharing goodness in a well-meaning, realistically harmless, Hallmark way and somebody actively crusading against your right to pursue happiness.
"...I have to agree with the bar owners: celebrating your upcoming wedding in a bar full of people who can't marry...is an asshole move."
I always find Gay Men going to straight bars offensive too, especially if they go there just to ogle the football players.
Man that was Awesome!
It's tacky. 99% of bars are straight. Go to them.
(Potential unseen shitty downside (?): Once gays finally get marriage rights all across the country, you know, there are just going to be *more* of these parties. And I'm willing to bet that even without people being reminded that they're essentially second-class citizens, the parties will STILL be obnoxious, just like some straight people *don't* find their peers' parties to be that engrossing.)
and that' it... the rule.
I was just saying that people who put up with discrimination on a daily basis tend to be offended by and aggressive to the "Other" (someone they perceive as being like their persecutors) when they encounter them on their own turf. So, in particularly racist towns, a white person in a black neighborhood will get the "What are you doing here, Whitey?" response. (Trust me on this; I grew up in the South.)
This poor lady got the "What are you doing here, Breeder?" response from people who mistakenly thought she was het.
Again, I was not accusing you of anything. I'm sorry for the offense. It was completely unintended.
@26 wins the confused asshat award.
"no one wants to see drunk grrrrls running around in a bar, gay or straight" Right. Because 1) being DRUNK at a BAR is the last thing anyone expects or wants to see, and 2) the only reason any grrrrrl would be drunk at a bar is because she's part of a bachelorette troupe. oh, and 3) given the first two: naturally, being abusive, rude, and hostile to another human are reasonable reactions.
@27 wins the award for low reading comprehension.
The behavior of the people in this sad story can not be excused by anything. It makes Seattle's gay community look like a bunch of cannibalistic douchey teabaggers. Until marriage and gender/sexuality equality exists in the courts, LGBT folk should appropriate whatever elements of "traditional" marriage they want. That includes annoying bachelorette parties and veils. And LGBT folk should also dress and present themselves however they like. No one should punish and abusive them for doing both these things, second-to-last of all Seattleites/Progressives, and last of all other members of the LGBT community.
There's been an incident of histrionic gay melodrama in a SEATTLE GAY BAR!!!
Oh, my head is spinning.... I feel faint... pass me the smelling salts...
I feel my world collapsing! Please tell me this isn't true, or I shall simply *die*!!!
Bachelorette parties are obnoxious enough in straight bars; in gay bars they are insufferable.
I just think ... you know ... what's really the difference between a straight girl and a lesbian girl when marriage rights vary from state to state? Should gay bars be checking the state IDs of patrons to ensure they're 100% like "one of them" -- i.e. gay AND rights-less?
Where's the meaning in differing between a het and lesbian woman when the reason you're miffed isn't really their orientation, but what they have *legally*? Because some gays and lesbians *do* have the right to get married where they live, so logically, their presence should annoy just as much.
I mean, I see this as slightly apart from the issue of straight women in general going into gay bars to break up the gay party going on -- which, yes, is massively silly and tacky if the bar isn't already known for welcoming that kind of business.
The deeper issue here is the gay community serving as the entertainment landing pad for the shock-n-awe of a bachelorette party. Big-cocked stipper? Check. Dildo gag (or not so gag gifts)? Check. Parading around like a drunken fool in a gay bar? Check. Gays are part of the show, the last debaucherous hurrah for the closing act of some bachelor/bachlorette's singleness.
Maybe the animosity that slapped her in the face wasn't just aimed at her because they viewed her as straight, maybe it's ALL hetero-normative-wedding behavior, even when it comes from one of our own.
The only reason to go to a non-str8 bar for a bachelorette party is to make out with the patrons, anyway.
Keep blaming everyone else for things happening within a community, then wondering why outsiders are not as accepting as you want them to be.
I'm sure it'll be really productive.
Actually, more physical damage was done on my end rather than hers: she cried to her friend and the friend proceeded to throw a drink in the face of my buddy who was mistaken for me.
The bride was not only wearing a veil, she posed with her girlfriends for pictures in front of the RPlace dancers, w/ faces of mock surprise and shock. "2cute2B A LESBIAN!!!!"
The Seattle gays weren't "pretentious". You were just ignorant or naive to the plight of your own people.
Nobody is saying that being called out by patrons is acceptable behavior.
We are saying it is *UNACCEPTABLE* to assume that your bachelorette party in a gay bar is going to be awesome and free from any consideration of how absurd prancing around in a veil dead in our faces is.
This sentiment is informed by experiencing this a lot from straight gals. It's unfortunate that this one was not straight, but she kinda should have thought it through before hand.
I really hope this will not be the published letter this week, because it is very misinformed.
Nobody like the person portrayed in this I, Anonymous could ever find someone tolerant and patient enough to marry them.
49 - Some straight couples are in gay bars because they are with their gay couple friends and are comfortable in any bar regardless of sexual identity.
50 - This is Seattle - not the entire WA state - the majority is with you.
Anyway. R-Place and The Rose are trashy. And by 'trashy' I mean filled with unintelligent low lives.
I was speaking directly to Anon. situation, that the unkindness that she was shown was likely rooted in the fact that she was perceived as a breeder flaunting her right to get married. I think that those who treated her unkindly made a choice to lash out at her, that they allowed their feelings of being discriminated against to justify their actions.
As to a gang-unit officer(s) and a prone suspect, I don't know what "justification" the gang-unit officer(s) would claim. I am assuming that you are referencing violent actions on the part of the gang-unit officer upon the prone suspect. I'm guessing that their "justification" could be rooted in fear and in their sense of their own superiority. Could their fear be masking a level of hurt... possibly? Could their fear be masking a sense of inferiority... possibly? Could their fear be rooted in a memory of a similar incident that haunts them... possibly? Do I think that they have an excuse? No. I think that they needed to be treated compassionately, and that means that they need to be prosecuted. They need to suffer the consequences of their actions. They need counseling to understand and eradicate why they would consider a prone suspect such a threat, and thus worthy of being abused and battered. What ever their reasons are, they aren't excused from the consequences of their actions.
I don't know if I answered your question.
No. But, I don't care for them period. Give me a river, a boat to raft it, and a couple of fine bottles of whisky to sip by the fire.
That, #50 is not up to you to decide. Not only do you not want straight people to have a party in our bars (which is understandable) you presume to be able to dictate what sot of party queers can have in bars. Really, dude fuck off.
It seems like R Place is frequently physically aggressive. I haven't been there in years.
How is that logic any different from teabaggery cons saying that if the Dems and Libs didn't win elections and pass health care reform, they wouldn't be forced to call them n*****s and throw bricks through windows? It takes just a few more drinks, a couple more tin foil hats, and just one more episode of Glenn Beck before the logic brings ya to "By being evil money grubbers set on destroyig Germany, the Jews forced us to kill them!"
And, yes, I did just bring in Hitler. I'm going for the Slog Comment Win.
Also that we should expect bar patrons everywhere, regardless of orientation, to be shining beacons of civil behavior and manners while they point out that they're not wearing the generally accepted demographic signifiers.
And what if she was a straight girl wearing a veil in a gay bar? Does that mean it is ok to rip off articles of her clothing, call her a bitch, and tell her to fuck off? Or, as some you charming folks suggest, should she be tripped and possibly injured?
59: No one thinks what happened to this girl is appropriate. But it isn't as simple as... blah blah rationalization
If you are making excuses for this behavior, you are an asshole. Observe the golden rule.
You are jus' as bad as the Teabaggers.
See, maybe I'm just totally out to lunch on this, but I think the ostensible function of a bar is to sell pints. So *gasp* people come in groups to gay bars to celebrate some upcoming nuptials... well boo-fucking-hoo for you. It isn't license to be an asshole. And if you think it is, maybe you should consider drinking alone.
He realized that he was asking a sensitive question. But, we're best friends, and he really wants me to be there- as his best man.
So, even though it gives me just a smidgen of heartache, I'm going to go attend that wedding, even though I'm gay. I mean, why not? He'll be happy. I'm going to be able to get married in the future anyways; it's just a matter of time. And I'm going to be his freaking best man. Screw the etiquette, it's an honor.
Get over it.
Yes, you were treated badly. Yes, the gays acted like immature assholes. But... are you really all that surprised?
Not many women go to gay bars, and most who do are straight. And virtually all bachelorette parties that tramp through gay bars are straight. So is it really that big of a leap for people to assume you were straight? And you must know that straight bachelorette parties in gay bars are considered to be pretty offensive to a lot of gays. So is it any wonder that people assumed you were straight, and were a bit pissed off about it?
Now add alcohol to the mix, and voila, asshole behavior ensues. Color me surprised.
Not to say that it was okay. It wasn't. But it was completely understandable, and shouldn't have been a surprise to you.
On the other hand, should the gay community have to put up with in-your-face behavior such as straight-girl-or-not bachelorette parties that openly mocks the rights that we don't have?
Or, can we have it both ways?
your attitude that "she should have expected this" is reminiscent of Mississippi attitudes in the 60s. "What did they expect comin' down here?"
The "blame the victim" attitude (regarding her decision not to dyke up her appearance) is fucked up too. (Can't remember if you personally have expressed it, but you sure haven't condemned it.)
You may not have ripped off the veil, but your rationalizations support this behavior, just as much as widespread Southern attitudes supported outright murder. You think that's an exaggeration? The only difference here is the scale of acceptable violence.
Speaking of Civil Rights, you all would do well to heed Dr. King's stand of non-violence, and apply it to ever facet of your lives. You won't piss off allies or alienate fence-sitters who are leaning your way if you do.
Not even Dan would have given this letter a second read-through, it's a fake. The writer even gave you some obvious points like getting mad that the fake people assumed she was straight while assuming they were all gay, friends becoming sisters, and sisters simply accepting a "fuck no" when expressing their discomfort.
Bullshit happens in bars regardless of sexuality and no event elicits more shade than a bachelorette party tromping through a bar -- any bar. But this is so fraudulent that not even the Keystone Cops would have taken this case.
It's wrong, blah blah blah, fags are evil for having safe space, poor innocent anonymous, look at all these repeated unlucky events, wash, rinse, repeat. Schmader more than likely posted this because it's an easy comment-getter. Fake letters often are. Life is far more boring than what this letter proposes.
And as @31 elegantly smacks you in the face with, it's pretty fucking unenlightened to suggest it's OK to harass and assault straights in a gay environment but then expect that it is perfectly okay to be gay in a straight environment without harassment. Retaliating against normal people does not make you awesome. And furthermore, isn't it a good thing to see straight people patronizing a gay establishment?
I await the rise of Gay Farrakhan who seeks separate nations for gays and straights. Perhaps between the two of them, we'll have to have a four-quadrant country with Gay Blacks in the southwest and Straight Whites in the northeast.
I went down three floors to compose myself and use the ladies room.
How many gay/lesbian bars in Seattle have four floors?
You're not gay, you're not even a Seattlite. GTFO.
Or R-Place on any given night...
If straight people getting married prevented us from getting married, then fine. But they don't. My female cousin recently got married, and while I'm sad that I can't do the same, it doesn't make me any less happy for her. And if she wanted to celebrate by going to a gay bar with her veil on, more power to her.
You can feel what you feel strongly, and I can agree that your feelings are reasonable, but when you attack long-time commenters you are just coming off as an irrational, incontinent, intemperate hothead.
Cool it, OK?
I'm not saying this blog is only for Seattleites (though his obsession with it is a little sad, if you ask me).
I'm saying that he is not the authority on gay culture, or on Seattle gay bars, and drawing comparisons to racism is completely unfounded and only exposes how out of touch on *this issue* he is.
Further...this is the fucking internet, not a high school popularity contest. This isn't "his turf".
And that's a very short list of the non-Seattleites, AD. The "real" list would probably blow your mind (think of all the Canucks, just for starters).
Still, Slog seniority has nothing to do with who's more "right" here.
Am I really arguing on the internet over who's been trolling Slog longer?
"Further...this is the fucking internet, not a high school popularity contest. This isn't 'his turf."
"You're not gay, you're not even a Seattlite. GTFO."
Not even a little cognitive dissonance? Remarkable.