Amen, sister.
I can't believe that promoting identity politics would cause people to be shitty to people who aren't like them.

Apart from that, congrats! Best tidings to you both. Don't let this shit get you down on a happy day.
Let me say how sorry I am for the way people treated you. Some people have very raw emotions regarding marriage and the way our rights were taken away in California. That is still no excuse. Good luck in your marriage.
So sorry, Anon.

Treating people badly often originates from a well of hurt, it doesn't excuse it, though. Again, so sorry.

Congratulations, to you and your beloved. Best wishes for a joyous and peaceful future. *Hat tip*
Never been called "whitey" have you #2? People can unload a hell of a lot of shit on those they see as different....
Yes, they were assholes. And, probably drunk.

That said, I don't have a problem with patrons at a gay bar respectfully telling a straight woman (I know, this person wasn't) or her bachelorette party "thanks, but no thanks". Something along the lines of "Congrats on your marriage, but I hope you remember the majority of people in here can't do the same."
Anon, god I feel you on this. So sorry you had this happen, but I love love love your persistence. Your ex-Seattleite voice reminds us our town's "holier than thou" problem used to be the exception rather than the rule. I wish you all the best in your marriage.

What the fuck are you talking about?

So…much like the Conservatives who claim that they can just spot a terrorist, isn't the gaydar thing going a bit too far?

This idea that people "look straight" is really antiquated, no?
..sisterfriend.. we forget that us gays are peolpe and people is stupid . i worked in a gay clubs ( two separate ones years apart ) for years and no one knew i was gay..i was out, but not the kind of swishy out they identified with. of course i found out that they all talked about it, but always behind my back. i rode a float with the last place in the pride parade ( well not technically a float..just a flatbed truck with some loudspeakers, bead throwing drag queens and twinks in speedos ) i was even congratulated on my tolerance being straight and all ..and this while accompanied with my then boyfriend/ now husband.
.. congratulations on your wedding. love well.
Three floors... clearly Rplace, damn as a performer there I feel bad for her. That sucks and I've never seen that at Rplace, if I had I'd have had her back. Crap anyone gives you shit there find a drag queen, hell find this queen.
I don't know of any gay bar in Seattle that would treat anyone that way- was it R-Place? That bar tends to be very Ghetto and skanky. You should have come to the Lobby or Purr or even the Cuff... At Neighbors you would have had straight guys hitting on you...
Had I seen that shit going down- I would have definitely come to your aid.
I had a feeling this happens and probably more often than not.

What the fuck are you even accusing me of?

Thinking that the expansion of rigid sex/gender/appearance roles to from straights to queers is a bad thing?

Ok. Guilty as charged.
...what the fuck does 'ghetto' mean ?
Congrats on your marriage.

Kim in Portland:
Treating people badly often originates from a well of hurt, it doesn't excuse it, though.

I appreciate the sentiment. Most people don't mean to be mean.

Does this go for gang-unit officers and prone suspects?
Oh dear, this is terrible.
Homosexuals are just horrible horrible people.
Especially in Seattle.
I am sorry our community treated you that way, but there are always rude people.

I of Latino heritage and one time a gay guy at a popular gay bar asked me for "my papers." He was trying to put me down and insult my heritage and undermine my dignity. Didn't work. My drink accidentally happened upon his fancy white shirt (cranberry vodka). The bouncer, who knew me from my commuity volunteering, did not say a thing as I left and didn't return for over a year. Yeah, people are mean even us gays. I have had similar incidents at other places (I will be kind an not name them).
To everybody with some sense, please join the Facebook group


They shouldn't have assumed anything but... Most girls who go to gay bars are, in my not-so-limited experience, straight. And I've known many allies who don't get how much the marriage issue hurts. That said, when my husband and I got married, we were at a gay bar with recent straight newlyweds and all got along like a house afire. So sometimes people suck and sometimes they don't.
@7: "Something along the lines of 'Congrats on your marriage, but I hope you remember the majority of people in here can't do the same.'"

Can't really deny someone their right to say that, but why is it *so* important to make that point to somebody (not to mention somebody who may well already remembers it perfectly)?

I mean, I see this as along the lines of somebody making a point of telling me they don't celebrate Christmas if I wish them one. Naturally, I'd respect that and make a note to skip that particular phrase around you in the future, but I'm just using seasonal shorthand for niceness -- as an atheist who doesn't actually "celebrate" celebrate Christmas -- so jeeeebus. Please distinguish between somebody sharing goodness in a well-meaning, realistically harmless, Hallmark way and somebody actively crusading against your right to pursue happiness.
@11 ah yes, I remember it well!
They shouldn't have assumed but.... In my less-than-limited experience, most girls in gay bars are fag hags. These beloved allies don't always get how hurtful the marriage issue is. When my husband and I got married we celebrated afterwards at a gay bar and met and hung out with a recently married straight couple and got along like a house afire. So sometimes people are jerks and sometimes they aren't. You're just as guilty of stereotyping as they are.
Oh, and I'm an impatient idiot who couldn't wait for the first comment to load. Also, I can't help but revise everything. WHOOPS!
Fuck you anonymous. There's a reason why there's a FB page called NO MORE BACHELORETTE PARTIES IN GAY BARS -- it is because no one wants to see drunk grrrrls running around in a bar, gay or straight. I'm glad you are getting the love from all these SLOG posters. If I had seen you at a bar I frequent I would have tripped you.
Also, Dan Savage is right on this one:

"...I have to agree with the bar owners: celebrating your upcoming wedding in a bar full of people who can't an asshole move."
Do we have etiquette for inviting gay friends to a wedding? Is that just sadistic?
#22: Your point would be valid if it was on the street, at work, or something. 100% agreed. But straight women having drunken Hen Parties at Gay Male Bars are choosing to have their fun at someone else's space. Gay Bars are not happy playgrounds for heterosexual traditions. We're not zoos for drunk straight girls to ogle the men.
I know the economy is bad but I wish all gay and lesbians would stop doing any service realted jobs to any wedding. Getting married in a State or Cancada means NOTHING in the eyes of the US of America, no tax break from the federal govenrment that marrried couples do, no protections that straight married people get let alone SS Survivor benefits. So I probably would have thought the same thing until I had a few drinks and then probably joined the crowd. Know the cuntry you live in!!
They're just jealous.

I always find Gay Men going to straight bars offensive too, especially if they go there just to ogle the football players.


Oh yeah-


Man that was Awesome!

#28: Usually being invited to a wedding means they are YOUR friends. You are happy for them. Straight women going to party a gay bar is akin to crashing someone else's party. To celebrate something none of the other patrons can do.

It's tacky. 99% of bars are straight. Go to them.
@29: Well, like in the letter, how about drunk lesbian girls? So it's only straight girls? I mean, I think that's the part that rankles with me the most -- the way the insults in the letter specified "straightness" and how it's not being picked up by some people commenting. If you're going to be militant about bachelorette parties in gay bars, kick them all out.

(Potential unseen shitty downside (?): Once gays finally get marriage rights all across the country, you know, there are just going to be *more* of these parties. And I'm willing to bet that even without people being reminded that they're essentially second-class citizens, the parties will STILL be obnoxious, just like some straight people *don't* find their peers' parties to be that engrossing.)
@28..yes there's etiquette and a simple 'rule' to remember. you invite friends you love, that love and support you.
and that' it... the rule.
Oh Jeez, Asparagus! I'm sorry to not be more clear. I was not accusing you of anything.

I was just saying that people who put up with discrimination on a daily basis tend to be offended by and aggressive to the "Other" (someone they perceive as being like their persecutors) when they encounter them on their own turf. So, in particularly racist towns, a white person in a black neighborhood will get the "What are you doing here, Whitey?" response. (Trust me on this; I grew up in the South.)

This poor lady got the "What are you doing here, Breeder?" response from people who mistakenly thought she was het.

Again, I was not accusing you of anything. I'm sorry for the offense. It was completely unintended.
@17 wins the off topic award.

@26 wins the confused asshat award.
"no one wants to see drunk grrrrls running around in a bar, gay or straight" Right. Because 1) being DRUNK at a BAR is the last thing anyone expects or wants to see, and 2) the only reason any grrrrrl would be drunk at a bar is because she's part of a bachelorette troupe. oh, and 3) given the first two: naturally, being abusive, rude, and hostile to another human are reasonable reactions.

@27 wins the award for low reading comprehension.

The behavior of the people in this sad story can not be excused by anything. It makes Seattle's gay community look like a bunch of cannibalistic douchey teabaggers. Until marriage and gender/sexuality equality exists in the courts, LGBT folk should appropriate whatever elements of "traditional" marriage they want. That includes annoying bachelorette parties and veils. And LGBT folk should also dress and present themselves however they like. No one should punish and abusive them for doing both these things, second-to-last of all Seattleites/Progressives, and last of all other members of the LGBT community.
Screw that, guys. Name the places. If they're going to let people get away with attacking the people who go there, then I want to know who they are. If they give so little of a damn about their patrons that they'll let this go on, I want to make sure that no one I know goes to any of them.
Misery loves company. If you're a happy gay stay out of places liike the Rose or R Place. Places like that are only for the miserable and baggage-laden.


There's been an incident of histrionic gay melodrama in a SEATTLE GAY BAR!!!

Oh, my head is spinning.... I feel faint... pass me the smelling salts...
I feel my world collapsing! Please tell me this isn't true, or I shall simply *die*!!!
The "you look straight" comment that some idiot gave you really pissed me off. Who the fuck are these self appointed guardians at the gate who think they can decide who "looks straight?" You can be certain that the attitude expressd by that douche represents nobody except his sorry self. "Lipstick lesbians" are a part of the community and not some pariah that "official" lesbians just tolerate. It sounds like the same attitude that one of my gay male friend got because he has shoulder length hair. In either case the community is as much yours as it is the fashion cops.
I can't believe Anon didn't see this coming. She sounds a little naive. If you're going to get all silly and wear the veil (barf), why not wear something that signifies you're a lesbian as well? Otherwise, why on earth wouldn't they assume she was straight?

Bachelorette parties are obnoxious enough in straight bars; in gay bars they are insufferable.
@33: Sigh, yes, I actually do agree -- who "owns" the venue does make a big difference. It IS tacky.

I just think ... you know ... what's really the difference between a straight girl and a lesbian girl when marriage rights vary from state to state? Should gay bars be checking the state IDs of patrons to ensure they're 100% like "one of them" -- i.e. gay AND rights-less?

Where's the meaning in differing between a het and lesbian woman when the reason you're miffed isn't really their orientation, but what they have *legally*? Because some gays and lesbians *do* have the right to get married where they live, so logically, their presence should annoy just as much.

I mean, I see this as slightly apart from the issue of straight women in general going into gay bars to break up the gay party going on -- which, yes, is massively silly and tacky if the bar isn't already known for welcoming that kind of business.
44 i'm of hands we know anyone who thinks bachelorette parties in bars are fun ?...
Sure, the reactions of Prentious-Gay-Seattle were fairly over the line, but did this Lipstick-Bride take the time herself to slow down and think that this might happen? What was the point with the veil, an antiquated, bit of hyper feminized kitsch? Had she gone out with a bang sans veil, couldn't she have had the same party, minus the dickholes? As a fully integrated gay (getting hitched and everything) has she never experienced the pangs of gay bars playing host to the overly self indulgent bachelorette?

The deeper issue here is the gay community serving as the entertainment landing pad for the shock-n-awe of a bachelorette party. Big-cocked stipper? Check. Dildo gag (or not so gag gifts)? Check. Parading around like a drunken fool in a gay bar? Check. Gays are part of the show, the last debaucherous hurrah for the closing act of some bachelor/bachlorette's singleness.

Maybe the animosity that slapped her in the face wasn't just aimed at her because they viewed her as straight, maybe it's ALL hetero-normative-wedding behavior, even when it comes from one of our own.
....and 44, who thinks bachelorette and bachelor parties are fun ANYWHERE....?
What's with the veil? I never heard of that at ANY kind of party! (Maybe the veil-ripper-offers thought she was Muslim?)
@ 46 .. i know , riiiiiiight ?
BTW, I'm not saying her harassers weren't behaving badly; they were. But I can sympathize. I know a couple of straight women who have no gay friends but like to occasionally go to gay bars, either with "the girls" or, worse, dragging their luke-warm boyfriends along. We all know these people. They are hypocrites and voyeurs, and I can't stand them. If I were a 25-year-old drunken lesbian, I'd be grabbing that veil, too.
This is another case of straight people ruining everything for everybody. If straight womens' bachelorette parties didn't offend so many people by making asses of themselves being pushy and acting entitled when in gay bars, Anonymous would likely have been let alone. Anonymous might have let people know she was not straight by wearing a flannel plaid, or chainmail veil. Also, if the the straight majority would just get behind marriage equality there wouldn't be so much hostility. The moral of this story is keep your straight-acting marriage parties out of gay bars until further notice. BTW, must have been RPlace since she went *down* 3 flights to get away from the dance floor, instead of up.
I too would like to know what that poster meant by "ghetto..."
Straight/bi/lez/gay people should be able to party wherever they want. Bachlorette/Bachelor parties don't mean straight, obviously. Why would the state stop you from having a wedding? Your state doesn't recognize your wedding? Fuck em' - have your wedding on the capital steps. Of course legal weddings should be available to all, but in the mean time, don't let it stop you from proclaiming your love to the world.
Why do we have bachelor and bachelorette parties anyway?

The only reason to go to a non-str8 bar for a bachelorette party is to make out with the patrons, anyway.
Wow, there are a lot of assholes who seem to think what happened to this girl is just jim dandy. Maybe I should rethink my support of marriage equality.
Keep blaming everyone else for things happening within a community, then wondering why outsiders are not as accepting as you want them to be.

I'm sure it'll be really productive.
I'm sure it was R place.... & @49, you don't have to be a drunken 25 year old to rip a veil off. I was a drunken 22 year old at RPlace when I tapped a bride on the shoulder and inquired as to whether she was marrying a woman. She shrank instantly, not wanting to admit right away that she was in fact marrying a man. It didn't take any yelling or veil snatching, just posing the follow up question, "Do you find it appropriate or sensitive to parade your legal marriage in a bar where no one else can get married" before she began to cry. CRY.

Actually, more physical damage was done on my end rather than hers: she cried to her friend and the friend proceeded to throw a drink in the face of my buddy who was mistaken for me.

The bride was not only wearing a veil, she posed with her girlfriends for pictures in front of the RPlace dancers, w/ faces of mock surprise and shock. "2cute2B A LESBIAN!!!!"
Can't say I agree with her outrage. I'm straight, and straight women having bachelorette parties in gay clubs is an affront to gay people. Period. Seattle or anywhere else. She should've had rainbows and triangles on her veil or something. They had every right to be angry, especially when gay marriage is such a hot topic right now. And considering that gay marriage isn't even legal in this state, they had every reason to believe you're straight.

The Seattle gays weren't "pretentious". You were just ignorant or naive to the plight of your own people.
I'm with you, Matt. Anyone who thinks this is acceptable behavior - by anyone, anywhere - is nothing short of an asshole.
@55: No one thinks what happened to this girl is appropriate. But it isn't as simple as retorting with an accusation that Seattle Gays are evil, pretentious reverse discriminators. There is a lot more feeding this scenario than calling it Straight Phobia. A little more thoughtfulness and consideration could have served all parties.
Fifty-Two-Eighty and Matt in Denver:

Nobody is saying that being called out by patrons is acceptable behavior.

We are saying it is *UNACCEPTABLE* to assume that your bachelorette party in a gay bar is going to be awesome and free from any consideration of how absurd prancing around in a veil dead in our faces is.

This sentiment is informed by experiencing this a lot from straight gals. It's unfortunate that this one was not straight, but she kinda should have thought it through before hand.

I really hope this will not be the published letter this week, because it is very misinformed.

"Straight people ruining everything for everyone..."


Nobody like the person portrayed in this I, Anonymous could ever find someone tolerant and patient enough to marry them.
I guess the lesson is, people are only allowed to have fun in properly designated and pre-approved locales for their predominate demographic identification. Anything else is an affront to decency and basic human regard for one another. Got it.
45 & 49 - You have become what you hate - intolerant
49 - Some straight couples are in gay bars because they are with their gay couple friends and are comfortable in any bar regardless of sexual identity.
50 - This is Seattle - not the entire WA state - the majority is with you.

Anyway. R-Place and The Rose are trashy. And by 'trashy' I mean filled with unintelligent low lives.
Six Shooter,

I was speaking directly to Anon. situation, that the unkindness that she was shown was likely rooted in the fact that she was perceived as a breeder flaunting her right to get married. I think that those who treated her unkindly made a choice to lash out at her, that they allowed their feelings of being discriminated against to justify their actions.

As to a gang-unit officer(s) and a prone suspect, I don't know what "justification" the gang-unit officer(s) would claim. I am assuming that you are referencing violent actions on the part of the gang-unit officer upon the prone suspect. I'm guessing that their "justification" could be rooted in fear and in their sense of their own superiority. Could their fear be masking a level of hurt... possibly? Could their fear be masking a sense of inferiority... possibly? Could their fear be rooted in a memory of a similar incident that haunts them... possibly? Do I think that they have an excuse? No. I think that they needed to be treated compassionately, and that means that they need to be prosecuted. They need to suffer the consequences of their actions. They need counseling to understand and eradicate why they would consider a prone suspect such a threat, and thus worthy of being abused and battered. What ever their reasons are, they aren't excused from the consequences of their actions.

I don't know if I answered your question.
Riz @ 44,

No. But, I don't care for them period. Give me a river, a boat to raft it, and a couple of fine bottles of whisky to sip by the fire.
@40, FTW!
#50 said: "The moral of this story is keep your straight-acting marriage parties out of gay bars until further notice."

That, #50 is not up to you to decide. Not only do you not want straight people to have a party in our bars (which is understandable) you presume to be able to dictate what sot of party queers can have in bars. Really, dude fuck off.
Not to be off-topic -- really sorry about the experience you had at what must have been R Place -- but where are you, as a lesbian, getting married in Washington State? Am I just hung up on semantics here? As a lesbian, shouldn't you be just a little bit hung up on the semantics too?

It seems like R Place is frequently physically aggressive. I haven't been there in years.
@45 FTW
Quality 50.

How is that logic any different from teabaggery cons saying that if the Dems and Libs didn't win elections and pass health care reform, they wouldn't be forced to call them n*****s and throw bricks through windows? It takes just a few more drinks, a couple more tin foil hats, and just one more episode of Glenn Beck before the logic brings ya to "By being evil money grubbers set on destroyig Germany, the Jews forced us to kill them!"

And, yes, I did just bring in Hitler. I'm going for the Slog Comment Win.
@63 - That's the takeaway I'm sensing.

Also that we should expect bar patrons everywhere, regardless of orientation, to be shining beacons of civil behavior and manners while they point out that they're not wearing the generally accepted demographic signifiers.
kim...i know riiiiiiight ?
I'm in the "it's amazing what assholes some of you people are" camp.

And what if she was a straight girl wearing a veil in a gay bar? Does that mean it is ok to rip off articles of her clothing, call her a bitch, and tell her to fuck off? Or, as some you charming folks suggest, should she be tripped and possibly injured?

59: No one thinks what happened to this girl is appropriate. But it isn't as simple as... blah blah rationalization

If you are making excuses for this behavior, you are an asshole. Observe the golden rule.
@68 No.
You are jus' as bad as the Teabaggers.
Gaygregation now, gaygregation forever! Gay separatism and segregation are awesome!
What IS it with you uptight SOBs in Seattle, anyway? Try dialling back your entitlement, people - along with your piss-and-moan attitude, it's about as attractive as a combover on a bald pate.

See, maybe I'm just totally out to lunch on this, but I think the ostensible function of a bar is to sell pints. So *gasp* people come in groups to gay bars to celebrate some upcoming nuptials... well boo-fucking-hoo for you. It isn't license to be an asshole. And if you think it is, maybe you should consider drinking alone.
Well, I'm gay and have been invited to the wedding of a straight friend to his high school sweetheart of some 4 years or so.

He realized that he was asking a sensitive question. But, we're best friends, and he really wants me to be there- as his best man.

So, even though it gives me just a smidgen of heartache, I'm going to go attend that wedding, even though I'm gay. I mean, why not? He'll be happy. I'm going to be able to get married in the future anyways; it's just a matter of time. And I'm going to be his freaking best man. Screw the etiquette, it's an honor.
Dear Anon,

Get over it.

Yes, you were treated badly. Yes, the gays acted like immature assholes. But... are you really all that surprised?

Not many women go to gay bars, and most who do are straight. And virtually all bachelorette parties that tramp through gay bars are straight. So is it really that big of a leap for people to assume you were straight? And you must know that straight bachelorette parties in gay bars are considered to be pretty offensive to a lot of gays. So is it any wonder that people assumed you were straight, and were a bit pissed off about it?

Now add alcohol to the mix, and voila, asshole behavior ensues. Color me surprised.

Not to say that it was okay. It wasn't. But it was completely understandable, and shouldn't have been a surprise to you.
Drink your drinks, dance your dance, let people go to the bars they want, and wear the shit they want. If you need to voice your disapproving opinion to strangers then start a blog or some shit. Gay, straight, bi, trans, or whatever, no one likes a fucking asshole. No justification at all for what happened to the author.
@76. #75 may not be as bad as a teabagger. More likely another control freak who needs to be put in his palce. Needs to learn his opinion carries no more weight than mine our yours.
kaisa wins the thread, as far as I'm concerned, for the story @56, the phrase "shock-n-awe", and for stating the main point so simply: "A little more thoughtfulness and consideration could have served all parties."
On one hand, the gay community asks that the rest of the community put up with our outrageous, in-your-face behavior, at PUBLIC events like Pride (and, don't tell me that you've not seen those acts of wanton sexuality) that explicitly provokes conservative attitudes towards sexuality.

On the other hand, should the gay community have to put up with in-your-face behavior such as straight-girl-or-not bachelorette parties that openly mocks the rights that we don't have?

Or, can we have it both ways?
@ StillNon and others,

your attitude that "she should have expected this" is reminiscent of Mississippi attitudes in the 60s. "What did they expect comin' down here?"

The "blame the victim" attitude (regarding her decision not to dyke up her appearance) is fucked up too. (Can't remember if you personally have expressed it, but you sure haven't condemned it.)

You may not have ripped off the veil, but your rationalizations support this behavior, just as much as widespread Southern attitudes supported outright murder. You think that's an exaggeration? The only difference here is the scale of acceptable violence.

Speaking of Civil Rights, you all would do well to heed Dr. King's stand of non-violence, and apply it to ever facet of your lives. You won't piss off allies or alienate fence-sitters who are leaning your way if you do.
This whole thing reeks of misogyny to me. I don't see a lesbian outrage over bachelor parties. Sure there are more straight female bachelor parties going to gay male bars but the whole issue is lopsided.
People, turn on your bullshit sensors already.

Not even Dan would have given this letter a second read-through, it's a fake. The writer even gave you some obvious points like getting mad that the fake people assumed she was straight while assuming they were all gay, friends becoming sisters, and sisters simply accepting a "fuck no" when expressing their discomfort.

Bullshit happens in bars regardless of sexuality and no event elicits more shade than a bachelorette party tromping through a bar -- any bar. But this is so fraudulent that not even the Keystone Cops would have taken this case.

It's wrong, blah blah blah, fags are evil for having safe space, poor innocent anonymous, look at all these repeated unlucky events, wash, rinse, repeat. Schmader more than likely posted this because it's an easy comment-getter. Fake letters often are. Life is far more boring than what this letter proposes.
Let's bring back segregation for the blacks too!
Just like blacks can be homophobes, apparently as @19 proved, gays can be racists. You're not better people by virtue of being gay or even for that matter by being repressed.

And as @31 elegantly smacks you in the face with, it's pretty fucking unenlightened to suggest it's OK to harass and assault straights in a gay environment but then expect that it is perfectly okay to be gay in a straight environment without harassment. Retaliating against normal people does not make you awesome. And furthermore, isn't it a good thing to see straight people patronizing a gay establishment?

I await the rise of Gay Farrakhan who seeks separate nations for gays and straights. Perhaps between the two of them, we'll have to have a four-quadrant country with Gay Blacks in the southwest and Straight Whites in the northeast.
Re @13:

I went down three floors to compose myself and use the ladies room.

How many gay/lesbian bars in Seattle have four floors?
Matt in Denver:

You're not gay, you're not even a Seattlite. GTFO.

Ghetto (adjective) : slang: any generally unbecoming behavior, attitude, or appearance that indicts a person of lacking sophisication.

Or R-Place on any given night...
So because we as gay individuals can't get married, we can't be happy for those who can? Yes, we still have work to do, but we can celebrate with those who are happy, because their happiness doesn't preclude us from being happy.

If straight people getting married prevented us from getting married, then fine. But they don't. My female cousin recently got married, and while I'm sad that I can't do the same, it doesn't make me any less happy for her. And if she wanted to celebrate by going to a gay bar with her veil on, more power to her.

Don't hate.
StillNon, Matt predates you here by YEARS and has a lot more credibility among other Sloggers than you do. In short, you are on his turf, not vice versa.

You can feel what you feel strongly, and I can agree that your feelings are reasonable, but when you attack long-time commenters you are just coming off as an irrational, incontinent, intemperate hothead.

Cool it, OK?
BTW, StillNon, if Slog is only for gay Seattleites, Urgutha Forka, Fifty-Two-Eighty, venomlash, Uriel-238, and Kim in Portland will all be surprised to hear it.
94/95: believe me, I have watched Matt in DENVER troll this blog for the last 4 years or so.

I'm not saying this blog is only for Seattleites (though his obsession with it is a little sad, if you ask me).

I'm saying that he is not the authority on gay culture, or on Seattle gay bars, and drawing comparisons to racism is completely unfounded and only exposes how out of touch on *this issue* he is.

Further...this is the fucking internet, not a high school popularity contest. This isn't "his turf".

I don't know that Matt goes back for YEARS, but he certainly pre-dates StillNon by a wide margin. Some of us really do go back YEARS, though - I remember when Dan had a separate blog from the rest of Slog. A long, long time ago.

And that's a very short list of the non-Seattleites, AD. The "real" list would probably blow your mind (think of all the Canucks, just for starters).
I started posting in 2007 and Matt in Denver was posting only 3 years I guess.

Still, Slog seniority has nothing to do with who's more "right" here.

Am I really arguing on the internet over who's been trolling Slog longer?

I'm done.
"Further...this is the fucking internet, not a high school popularity contest. This isn't 'his turf."

"You're not gay, you're not even a Seattlite. GTFO."

Not even a little cognitive dissonance? Remarkable.
Exactly 100! That's just what I was sayin'!

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