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How could anyone not get Dan's humor in the response to the straight woman (it seemed obvious to me that it was a woman) in the second letter? And is he really suppose to write/speak down to the lowest common denominator?
... I got it instantly, and I'm not known for being good at reading subtext.
Clearly, this person hasn't read past columns or listened to any of your podcasts because I can most certainly "hear" you when I read your columns.
I got what you were saying - because I wasn't looking for the misogynist subtext at every turn...
A longtime female reader
Also, on the other side of this "male-centric" coin ... many of the (straight) males I know would probably be horrified to think of a vagina as a cock in any shape or form.
@5: No, I find it annoying. Helpful feminists are ones who aren't so pedantic and self-serious, man OR woman. His kind of views are the stuff that I have to deal with later, baggage that often bogs down my own ability to lay out arguments and viewpoints because I'm too busy shooting down pre-conceptions.
And deciding it's OK to let go of his zeal because he's a dude isn't really smacking of gender equality either.
I'm also a feminist in that I believe that women are JUST AS GOOD as men, and deserve the same treatment as men.
I think most feminists put women up on pedestals as if they never deserve derisive treatment. That, dear commenter, is false.
To be honest, my favorite feminist book was the text book from my Intro to Women's Studies class.
It's pretty obvious this kid is just now becoming versed in, well, the feminist lexicon. Meaning that he means well, but hasn't thought through a lot of this. And seeing as he's a guy, he probably hasn't been as plugged into the very real implications of a society that's still, well, pretty patriarchal.
Aaron - of course Dan's advice was male-centric. He was talking to one man who is having sex with another man - albeit a transman. Treating the writer's boyfriend as female would have been awful.
Also - when an MTF gets sexual reassignment surgery, her penis is quite literally refashioned into a vagina. It is, for many transsexuals, the final step in bringing their bodies in line with their legitimate sexual identity. So, kid, there are plenty of people out there who walk away from their penises - because being a woman is what matters to them.
But, you know, points for trying?
Like 11, I am not on some higher plane of social awareness (in fact I am fairly anti-social and misanthropic), but I definitely got the joke and the point of the answer in the way Dan explained it. Maybe just because I've read way too much Savage Love?
Not enough muff diving.
And, as a vagina-attached person I retain the right to tell anyone I want to suck my giant cock. It is just more fun that saying eat my pussy.
She seems to be cool with actually using the term "mankind" to denote humanity and even "man" in place of the singular "woman", though in her stories this only happens after *something* happens to all the men (so that there are no *male* men left), so it may be more of a joke on her part, intended to point out the inherent sexism in our language.
So yeah, the cock thing reminded me of a feminist author (and a real man hater as far as I can tell), but in a good way.
lol.
I'm a straight girl who hates all the slang terms for vagina. Cunt, twat, pussy—first's too vulgar, second's too awful, third's too cute. And vajayjay? Too stupid. All the best sex-organ slang is reserved for men. It makes me sad.
Sent From My iPod
Let's just call 'em all cock then, shall we? Your pussy, SFTSLAFI's boyfriend's pussy, Buck's pussy—they're all cocks in the boxes they came in.
I get that Dan is being flippant, but still...
Yeah, our society has some serious gender issues. They contribute to some of our serious homophobia issues, too.
But lighten up, dude, it was a joke.
And that's a good thing.
And you can all suck my clit!
Word. I couldn't get past it to read what he actually thought because his tone was insufferable. It would be cool that he's so into feminism if he could handle himself without being an asshole about it, but instead it's just embarrassing. Try not to be so high-handed, guy. You don't change anybody's mind by being offensive.
2 - Aaron sounds like a fuckin asshole.
Feminists have enough work trying to simply be heard, not interrupted, taken seriously as a person, and not being harassed to have time to put themselves on a pedestal.
But, really, it's hardest to get behind feminists that says that men have the best sex organ slang (I love the term pussy...there's also beaver, box, honey pot, punani, [those four I like as well], coochie poon, hoo ha, cooter [ick]). Really, women have as many terms for their vadge as men do, a lot of which are awesome.
It's like the feminists who say all porn [including gay male porn] is degrading to women, or that women should be spelled with a 'y'.
Fight for the things that matter. Don't jerk yourself off worrying about the patriarchy of sex organ slang.
@33 Sorry, I didn't hear you.
Although I did think he was gonna say, "Psyche, DTMFASAP," or something along those lines, because I think a guy who won't give oral is a guy who won't take kindly to being told "suck my cock." And odds are he won't grow up quick enough for her to stick around.
@33, you quoted the line and still there is reading comprehension fail? @14 did not say feminists put feminists on a pedestal -- they put women on a pedestal. (And not even all women usually, but mothers, the ones with "The Hardest Job in The World, blahblahblah".)
What actually annoyed me? That some dude who just completed his multiculturalism credit requirements has decided he's the arbiter of appropriateness for public discourse about clit/cock, and moreover, that he assumed readers of Dan's column (ie me) aren't quite so enlightened or learned.
Dude. Aaron. At least some of us are already a step ahead of you. But at least your heart's in the right place.
'Nuff said.
My feelings are hurt that Dan spent today playing email tag with a random reader and he still hasn't answered the question I sent him a month ago.
/cryabeetus mode off
That said, Aaron comes off sounding like a bit of a pompous ass and I'd actually be quite shocked if the overwhelming majority of readers didn't immediately get the joke.
Penises are clits, clits are penises, so why would that present a problem to an Intro-to-Women's studies course? Probably because it's not being discussed well enough yet in a 101. He may never get it, at least, in college.
Second, I would think that the relatedness of male and female genitals would SUPPORT feminism. Feminism is all about questioning the innateness and validity of social gender norms and roles. The FACT that only so much biological difference is present between men and women would support the idea that gender roles are socially constructed rather than innate, and that no one set of genitals is "more important" than the other (since neither set has been magically created, independent of the other).
But it looks like he's just finished his first Women's Studies 101 class and he's really excited to show off all this great material that he's memorized. I'm gonna feel really sorry for his friends and family for the next few months or so.
Next.
Clits are not vaginas. He was comparing clits to cocks. PLEASE can we at least use the right terms? It irritates me to no end when people use the term "vagina" to describe all of my bits. My bits all have very specific names. Learn them. And yes, I like to say "bits", although "peach" is another term of affection I enjoy. Yoni is a nice word to use when teaching children about sexuality, but I prefer dirtier words like "cunt" when speaking to adults.
Then, have this feminist-created, people-approved, vagina nickname used frequently in a Savage Love so it's Savage approved.
A: You do realize that you shouldn't call it "screwing," right? That reinforces male-centricism. It's actually very sexist and damaging to our society - I read a book about it once.
I'd hate to see cock become a catch-all term for both cock and clit. They may be biologically similar, but they are not the same.
No problems with Dan's advice though, it makes perfect sense for a gay guy to imagine his FTM lover's clit as a cock in the box.
hmm, I like that imagery for a clit despite Aaron's point: "cock in the box"
Anyway...in response to #58, I once suggested to my lesbian friends that out of respect to the good residents of the island of Lesbo that objected to their homeland being a sexual identity to adopt the term "Saphite" (referring to the Lesbo island resident and lesbian poet Sapho) instead. It went over like a ton of bricks. Apparently, I am not a trend setter. Good luck with spreading whatever terminology you come up with.
Lots of women are named "Aaron". It was the 882nd most popular female name in 1983, for example, although it hasn't been in the top 1000 since then.
@73: I don't think it's obvious either way. There are a lot of men who identify as feminists- especially queer men. Including yours truly. :) I don't think it really matters whether Aaron is a man or a woman- it doesn't impact their points in any way.
Even if we've all determined that the guy was being a bit overzealous, I will never not be happy that someone chose to err on the side of caution and ask about it for once. His tone wasn't the best, but the world would probably be a better, more woman positive place if more overzealous college kids took the time to question these things. Its just really refreshing to see a guy calling this out.
There's nothing wrong with finding similarities instead of trying to keep things equal and separate. Also, call my clit what you want. Feminism-wise, I'd rather have stuff like reproductive rights and equal pay for equal work.
(Incidentally, in my regional dialect, those two names aren't even pronounced the same, but apparently they are for lots of people.)
How sad so many in history and currently could not and cannot.
Alas, as we continue to engage in similarly preposterous nonsense, it becomes more likely that our grandchildren will never know such luxuries.
Screw you and your stereotyped assumptions. I'm a non-jaded feminist who doesn't waste time with cartoon chauvinists, and I think Aaron deserves props rather than hating. It's easy to diss young earnest people who think seriously about "abstract political ideas" and take time to explore them. Aaron's concern with ideas doesn't imply unconcern for "the people who make those ideas valuable." Just the opposite.
And in fact, he wasn't "preaching." He was engaged in a reasoned exchange of viewpoints (um, like college students are SUPPOSED to do!), without being snarky or demeaning. (To his credit, Dan responded in kind.)
Bashing people who dare to publicly dip a toe into abstract ideas is too common in our anti-intellectual culture, in which a good insult gets more kudos than a good question. I understand that many readers come to SLOG to get their snark on, but back the fuck off. I would have been thrilled to know more guys like Aaron back when I was in college.
@87. . . yeah, it is kinda' funny when a white (straight?) dude tells others how to keep things real when it comes to feminism and um. . . words and things. It's like. . . reverse patriarchy? wtf?
Sex and sex work is a pretty contentious topic among feminists, but sex-positivity does reach into feminist circles. (which makes a lot of sense, given that it overlaps with a lot of feminist priorities and values, including birth control, positive self-image, equal standards, etc...) It's not just something for advice columnists. :)
It can't have escaped Aaron's notice (or actually, perhaps it can) that this is an entertainment column. Try to make an entertainment product that only includes jokes that can be gotten by the dumbest and most clueless audience members, you'll end up with... Sex and the City II. Or a Tim Allen comedy or something. The notion that the final line contains "too much subtext" for normal people to get is highly dubious -- one need only have the barest notion of Dan's sense of humor, & have read the whole column.
Now that we know that Aaron is a female, I'm even more annoyed with her knee-jerk misreading of your advice. Aargh! (I hope that's not too sexist of me to say, Aaron).
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/…
(A Person Paper on Purity in Language, by William Satire (alias Douglas R. Hofstadter))
The novel Egalia's Daughters also addresses the point well.
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/…
(A Person Paper on Purity in Language, by William Satire (alias Douglas R. Hofstadter))
The novel Egalia's Daughters also addresses the point well.
LOL and double-LOL.
Except that I'll bet you cash money that Aaron is a vegetarian/vegan, and eager to tell you about it. Very eager.
(Aaron, who has read some books on feminism and taken a class or two)
Does Aaron realize that we largely have feminists themselves to thank for this? The so-called female forms were seen, often correctly, as demeaning and subordinate so the proffered solution was to use the same word for both sexes. So "actresses" became "actors," and so on. The objective was linguistic neutrality.
That Aaron is completely unaware of this recent (indeed, ongoing) cultural effort raises the question of how much he actually knows about feminism.
Oh wait, he thinks Jessica 'Feministing' Valenti has written "great books." Okay, question answered.
Danfan,
You're giving Aaron more credit than he's due. He is not trying to "think seriously about abstract political ideas." He is trying to play Language Police with Dan S. because his recent indoctrination by the PC hivemind regnant in academia has left him with a sense of sanctimonious entitlement large enough to float a battleship.