That teachers union is fucked up, yo.

If they're so under-qualified, won't they just not be hired? Or is the union saying that the people who review applications for open positions are easily distracted by sparkly young people?

Isn't this kinda like letting the Peace Corps work on our gas mains?

TFA teachers are MORE qualified, not less qualified. The union is wrong on this one. The threat is that their own lack of qualifications will be exposed by bringing in serious, committed teachers over their all-too-often stupid and lazy ones. The only way to bring low-income schools up to snuff is to get some decent teachers into them. What we have isn't working.

Um...who would I rather want my children taught by: a recent college graduate with only five weeks of training (by TFA), or someone who has spent years in an accredited program learning how to be a teacher, including time as a student teacher under the guise of an experienced teacher? No contest. Give me the teacher who is a teacher, not someone who is learning on the job. I don't care if the TFA person is a future Nobel prize winner with 3 degrees from Harvard, it takes more than brainpower to effectively teach a classroom of 28 2nd graders. It takes experience and dedication, and a two-year commitment from a recent college grad with very little training just doesn't cut it.

TFA was originally about providing teachers in schools for which no one wanted to teach (the "bad" schools in "bad" neighborhoods we've all heard about). It addressed a real shortage in teachers willing to work in those schools. There is no shortage of qualified, experienced teachers who want to teach in Seattle Public Schools.

Seattle Public Schools is ready to throw money at a program to "solve" a non-existent problem (shortage of teachers), but routinely seems unwilling to spend money on actual, real problems.

If the TFA applicant is not as qualified as another applicant, they will not be hired. I know several people from low- to middle- income families that went into TFA. It is most definitely not a ploy by the rich to privatize education. And even if they don't have a specialized education degree, they still have ACTUAL experience. They deserve an equal chance.

Also, while there might not be a shortage of teachers, we should still be getting the best teachers available. If that means mining every quarry until we hit gold, so be it. And, like mining, a lot of what is found is crap.

Of course, the only thing keeping low-income schools from catching up is lack of decent teachers. That's it. Problem solved.

@7 A five week training course does not make you a qualified teacher. Years of training and experience in the classroom make you a qualified teacher. Hell, I was on the job for about 3 or 4 years before I considered myself a decent teacher.

"The only way to bring low-income schools up to snuff is to get some decent teachers into them. What we have isn't working."

This is a gross oversimplification of the problems plaguing low-income and inner city schools. And you know it.

There have been problems in NYC schools and in other places around the country where administrators have simply fired or forced out experienced (more expensive) teachers because they know they can get a TFA teacher to fill their place.

This leads to a revolving door of teachers, either because the TFA kids get forced out when they finish the program, or they move on to teaching at nice schools in the suburbs.

@ 7 Exactly how are they more qualified? The whole program is based around them having ZERO qualifications. They just take a bunch of private school kids, and assume that their liberal arts degrees will magically make them brilliant teachers. They take a 5 week crash course in the summer, that's it. Then they are thrown into the toughest schools in America and expected to magically fix it. It's usually a disaster, and a significant percentage of TEA members quit before the end of their two year term.

@11 TEA people don't go into the normal job applicant pool. They are automatically jumped to the head of the line, and don't have to compete with other applicants.

@7 - Most public schools require a Master's in Education, preferably in a specific field and age group, plus credentials—how are TFA corp members better qualified? Why invest in (not necessarily, but by definition probably) less-educated, inexperienced, short-term employees? I'd be all for it if it were impossible to put teachers in certain Seattle schools, but that's not the case.

While the union needs to address its tenure process and lack of ability to get rid of bad teachers, those really aren't what's underlying the reason for under-performing schools.

@3 - Even with a headhunting fee of $4000, a non-certificated, Bachelor's level degree holder costs less than a certificated, Master's level teacher (which is what exists in Washington due to the legislature). The people who review applications know this and it DOES influence their decisions.

@7- Sorry, Fnarf, you are wrong on this one. TFA people have ZERO classroom experience when they walk in the door.

It should be acknowledged that there is mixed evidence as to the effectiveness of TFA teachers. And "mixed evidence" really does mean just that -- some studies have shown that they are better (particularly in math) and some have shown no difference between TFA teachers and other teachers.

The evidence is quite clear, however, that on average, teachers with 3-4 years of experience are much more effective than teachers in their first 1-2 years. Part of that is undeniably due to the fact that the teacher preparation programs in this country are generally pretty terrible (and that includes MEd programs @20).

So, anyways, when you're talking about comparing two fresh-out-of-college teachers (one TFA, one with an Education degree), I might be inclined to choose the TFA teacher. But, if you're talking about comparing a TFA teacher vs. a teacher with 3-4 years under their belt, I'd go with the 3-4 year teacher.

The union doesn't give a shit if they're qualified or not. They're just picking every possible argument to take down TFA believing that it potentially threatens the union and its jobs.

@22 - Could be. I do know a lot of districts initially excited about the TFA program have dropped them all together because of high turnover—(Houston, in this case, who discovered, like many school districts, the "combat pay" method has been much more effective in attracting experienced teachers to tougher schools) which makes sense as they've got less invested.

Which is also not to say there isn't some totally qualified teachers involved in TFA as well.

I probably should'a just stopped typing after my shitty analogy.

An ivy league education, does not make a person necessarly smarter. I am dissapointed at the knee jerk, kow towing attitude towards elitist institutions and their offal.
The TFA guy I worked with was easily one of the worst teachers in the building but he did: 1) name drop his Harvard degree all the time 2) wear a tie and 3) got the fuck out as soon as he could.
Best and brightest, my ass.
TFA is mostly a rich kid tourist agency.

I have nothing to add, but want my avatar to follow @25's handle.

@24 I'm sure it varies by district in terms of their experience with TFA teachers, but, on average TFA turnover is only slightly higher than that of young traditional teachers. And I was pretty surprised to learn that a decent percentage of TFA teachers choose to stay in teaching for more than the 2 year commitment (I think it was something like 45%). [BTW, I would cite studies for all of this, but I'm feeling lazy today. Sorry about that.]

Leaving the realm of research... For underserved areas (i.e., probably not Seattle) I also personally think that there's an intangible aspect to having someone in a school who went to a top tier college, and has career ambitions that may be outside the norm for the area. I had some friends do a TFA-type program after college -- they were from a top 20 college & were given assignments in middle-of-nowhere in the deep south. And, there was something to be said for having that type of role model in a school, at least in the schools they were in (again, this isn't really relevant for Seattle). I might be talking out of my ass on this one, but as someone who grew up in a small town where very few kids ever think to go to anywhere other than an in-state school, it might have been nice to have a TFA teacher around.

@25,

They're not necessarily from the Ivy Leagues, they just meet the same standards as the Ivy Leagues (i.e. they were extremely good students and graduated toward the top of their classes). I wanted to try TFA; my grades weren't good enough, and I was a good student from an elite university.

The union is RIDICULOUS. Who will pay the price? Children who currently have little hope of graduating high school - let alone going to college. Why? So union members don't feel bad.

This is selfish and disgusting. I have to give the union a little credit - at least they are honest about not giving a shit about kids. Our schools are suffering - kids are paying the price. They won't take a hit to their ego to help students succeed - when they don't have ANY ideas other than a 2% cost of living increase to a system that continues to fail our kids.

I say, screw you union. Real teachers will love having the additional help and support TFA will bring.

@20, they're more qualified BECAUSE they haven't got Masters Degrees in Education. I've seen the kind of gunk they teach in ed school.

Okay understand the logistics issue.

TFA can join be in the applicants in Phase III (which basically after internal hiring). Yes, they do have a minimal amount of classwork (basically experimenting on summer school students). But they also get to teach special ed with no special training and as a mother of a special needs child, no way in hell.

"I am really taken aback," said school board director Harium Martin-Morris. "We are looking at America's best and brightest and saying don't come here?"

I have lost a lot of respect for Director Martin-Morris with that statement. There is NO proof (except TFA's vetting process) that these are truly the best and the brightest.

What he isn't saying is that TFA teachers each cost $4k a year more (their Foundation gets the money). A private donor will pay for a year or two and then what? We don't have a dedicated funding stream for this and so what then? What would you cut so we can have inexperienced (but hey oh so bright!) teachers in with the most challenging students there are? I say nothing is worth it.

They are FULL teachers, not aides so it's not that they are helping other teachers.

Also, this effort has had zero, zilch, nada public engagement. Parents deserve to know this is coming and not AFTER it passes. Parents deserve to know this agreement would allow student identifiable information to flow to TFA AND outside sources. That is just ridiculous especially when many of the students concerned would come from families of immigrants or low-income who might not know their rights to opt-out of information going that way.

Is this really one of the top five things our district needs to do? After one terrible audit (and another one on the horizon- wait for it) , a no-confidence vote by teachers in the Superintendent, more budget cuts coming, this is what staff and the Board are concentrating on?

Bullshit.

"To assign underqualified teachers to low-income schools is discrimination"

...and this differs from the status quo how exactly?

@30- That's a whole lot of insults without addressing the main issue. TFA won't save money and does not necessarily bring in more qualified candidates. So why bother?

@31 Using your logic I would make a great dentist because I've never been to dental school.

"I've seen the kind of gunk they teach in ed school. "

Uh..sure you have Fnarf. Sure you have.

Teach for America is a solution looking for a problem. In much of the country schools don't have applicants for the teacher jobs. That's where Teach for America should go and provide a needed resource. Here in Seattle there is no teacher shortage. There were 800 applicants for teacher jobs at West Seattle Elementary this year. Do we really need more than that?

Education right now has a real focus on testing, measuring, "data-driven" outcomes, credentials, etc. What's lost in this is that teaching is also, perhaps mostly, an art. The brightest, best credentialed kid out of college may become a great teacher, but it takes experience and mentorship to develop the art. Tossing these brand new teachers into the most challenging environments may have some successes, but it's unrealistic to think, on its own, this will close the achievement gap.

TFA just seems to be yet another attempt to find a silver bullet to solve a systematic problem which has social, cultural, economic and class as well as professional issues.

To those who say why not give TFA a chance, it's because TFA'ers have very high attrition, which is costly for the district and costly for student learning. It is also not fair for the district to commit to a $4K reimbursement to TFA (even if private donors are being sought initially) to help pay for TFAers 5 week training. Other teachers don't get this.

Also, the data only show that TFA recruits are only marginally better than other new uncredentialed, underprepared teachers, NOT credentialed new ones and especially NOT experienced credentialed ones. The district and TFA like to cherry pick from vendor studies and non-peer reviewed research. Read the peer-reviewed research such as http://greatlakescenter.org/docs/Policy_…

To target high needs schools with such unprepared teachers in discrimination. The district must do better than this.

@37 - I completely agree. TFA is just one part of this. There is no silver bullet in education reform.

The fact is traditional teaching certification programs draw from the bottom third of college students. The top students go into science, engineering, computer science, law, medicine, business, etc. Why would you want your children being taught by the worst students that the profession traditionally attracts? Finland which boasts the highest student achievement in the world draws its teachers from the top third of university students. Do you think there is a connection?