Comments

1
So the German's are starting to flex their muscle again. Well, if history has shown us anything it's that this is nothing to be worried about.
2
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."
--JRR Tolkien
3
"The world is indeed full of peril and in it there are many dark places. But still there is much that is fair. And though in all lands, love is now mingled with grief, it still grows, perhaps, the greater."
4
Germans are indeed nice and innovative people. They are however assholes who think their shit cures all ails. I've met very few Germans who didn't have an undertone that they are better then the rest of us.
5
This is how central Europeans all are. Polish people are just like this. It's actually not racism, they just think that Germans and Polish people have a more hard working and generous culture than other people. Polish people say Germans are too selfish though.

The racism actually comes out in the fact that they wouldn't be likely to compare themselves in this way to Arabs or Africans. But those cultures are different enough that maybe it's true that a side-by-side comparison is unwarranted.

I'm not defending it but it's not quite the racism you're used to.
6
Considering the current governments of Italy and Greece, the Germans might have a point. I dunno about lazy, but when your leader is a massive organized crime figure who owns almost all the major media outlets and has a penchant for underage girls, and doesn't even seem to care that he gets caught, because he knows that even underage girls aren't going to get Italians to stop voting for him, then I'd say the scorn of the Germans might be a little deserved.
7
I can only imagine there's one kind of capitalism that Charles Mudede, as a Marxist, loves. This is George W. Bush, Ayn Rand cowboy capitalism, the kind that causes global financial crises. Why should Mudede love this kind of capitalism? Because it's the kind that is easily discredited.

By the same token, there's another kind of capitalism that Mudede as a Marxist must fear. This is the sustainable, socially conscious German brand of capitalism, the kind that weathers global financial crises--the kind that makes the argument that capitalism just maybe isn't one big Ponzi scheme.

If you look at how the Germans have approached corporate ownership and governance, renewable energy, transportation, the reduced demand for employment during downturns--it's just a litany of how the socially responsible policy also happens to be the profitable policy.

Oh, and the Irish didn't get in their big debtor's hole because they preferred to drink and be merry. They got there because they started believing in the same magic Americans started believing in--that they deserved to see their money grow exponentially indefinitely. See this fine recent NY Times piece:
The Debtor of the Western World
8
Aw, shit - Fnarf beat me to it. I hate it when that happens.
9
Ireland and Germany have a natural affinity. The Irish supported Hitler and the Germans supported Irish attacks on the British. The Irish never, I mean never, forget. Unless it's been a hard night of drinking. The EU is bringing stability. Even though the Irish opposed the EU, it is proving it's worth.
10
Poetry + Guinness > Frugality + On-Time Trains
11
If you spend any time at all traveling in Europe you can jump to some quick (& valid) conclusions. The cleanliness of cities, the condition of the infrastructure, the state of the countryside & farmland. Germany is pretty damb immaculate. They've got some bragging rights earned, even on us. Find a city in northern Europe with streets as fucked up as Seattle's, for example. Cultural values seem to still be entact that drive this stuff.

The euro zone financial troubles with it's bailouts wouldn't be possible without Germany's engine, face it. It's a fact. The Greeks went on a months-long rioting spree because it was proposed they tighten their belts.

Ditto France. Imagine having to wait until age 62 to retire! OMG, what next?

And then of course, there's always the jack ass that brings up WWII whenever the word Germany is uttered.

12
@11 Oh, sure, let's just forget all about that tiny little squabble.
13
Reminds me of a classified ad in Oslo that was a none too subtle put down of Swedes. "One room apartment available, suitable for Poles or Swedes."
14
@5: So, what I'm hearing is: "You guys are lazy and dirty and should strive to be more like us. Still, at least you're not like those darkies, they're completely hopeless." Sounds fairly, what's the word... racist, to me. And you do know that most Germans think of Poles as lazy, dirty and kind of dumb, don't you?
15
#14 - "most Germans" think this, huh? Maybe in 1932. What's your evidence? Or is this just "common knowledge" among blog commenters like yourself?
16
Schweiz Über Alles.
18
Energy from alternative sources in Germany: from 6% to 20% of total energy used in ten years. We are with the Italians and Irish.
19
As "The Simpsons" said,"No one who speaks German could be an evil man!"
20
"Well, let me tell you something, my Kraut-Mick friend. I'm gonna make so much trouble for you, you won't know what hit you!" --Jack Woltz, in The Godfather
21
It no longer takes an army of men, guns and WMD's to wield enormous power in the world. World War 3 may very well be happening, only on a private economic scale we, in the general public, don't have any information about. New......Wo
22
Nobody forced Ireland to take Germany's money. And Germany is quite a model to emulate. They have worker councils setting work rules. They have great training leading to jobs, something we don't do in America. They have lower unemployment and they have high taxes and great programs. They have 88 million people. They united with east germany and helped them with lots of aid. They helped Ireland in the boom years, taxing the richer Germans and redistributing that money to Ireland and portugal and other newbies in the EU. Their society at present is better than ours, if you consider things like the well being of the median level people, the well being of the poor, and the well being of the upper middle class. And their richy riches are better off than ours because they get to live in a society that's clean, not riddled with horrible violent crime, and in which there is not a desperately poor underclass locked into dropping out and being unemployed. So if you were going to pick a place to be a mega millionaire, you might pick germany over the usa. btw they also get high speed trains, vacations in italy and spain, many weeks worth, even for workers, and they can go 130 mph on the autobahn.

Envy much? And get this, their conservative government is under fire for building too much of a train station in stuttgart.
23
We hijack this thread with an Important Public Service Footie Announcement. Colorado Rapids are champions of the MLS. "The Rapids: the very best of the pretty good."
24
@22 WHOMP
25
This must be why so many people vacation in Germany over Greece or Ireland or Italy.
26
Lots of Germany hatred on here. Why? They represent one of the few responsible economies in Europe and seem to be single-handedly keeping the entire Eurozone afloat. Not to mention that they're the ONLY country in the western world without a resurgent, mainstream rightwing party. Even the bleeding heart Dutch and Swedes are leaning further right of Germany. And the USA? Please.

And @25 -- valid argument. The number of vacationers a country has is directly related to its overall quality of life, state solvency and human development index. Mexico, Thailand, Indonesia, Egypt, the bankrupt Mediterranean states... all gleaming examples of prospering societies.
27
Germany rocks! Their economics and politics are far more intelligent and humane than ours, and their football team is going to win the next world cup.

If it means we'd become more German, the US would be lucky to be their next bailout target.
28
So because this friend is German that makes him automatically suspect of having a negative view of Arabs and Africans? That sounds like a racist statement to me!
I live in Germany. Its not like that. Grow up.
29
#5 Cicho bądź. Nic nie wiesz o tym, Suko. Prawność jest, że Polacy i Niemcy są taki pierdole leniwi...
30
@10 - Having something to eat > starving.

The idea that staving off economic disaster in Ireland is tantamount to Ireland "selling its soul" is typical Mudede caca. Take it from a guy with Irish and German blood, when you combine the Irish soul with German thrift, the result is "work hard, play hard", which is a wonderful way to live.
31
This nonsense is again about unbridled banking piggery, not quite as bad as what happened in Iceland, but certainly the same kind of (should be) criminal activity. It's just AEG and WaMu all over again. Dumbass national stereotypes aside, the Euro was a stupid idea, somehow pretending that such a variety of economies could be nailed to the same currency and standards. Would be nice to see the Euro bop back down to $1.15 or so. Which would... help the Germans.
32
I am wired on schnapps, Benzedrine, and those little chocolate covered peanuts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbcH_qYke…
33
Pogues Bottle of Smoke Lyrics:
Thanks and praises
Thanks to Jesus
I bet on the Bottle of Smoke
I went to hell
And to the races
To bet on the Bottle of Smoke

The day being clear
The sky being bright
He came up on the left
Like a streak of light
Like a drunken fuck
On a Saturday night
Up came the Bottle of Smoke

Twenty fucking five to one
Me gambling days are done
I bet on a horse called
the Bottle of Smoke
And my horse won

Stewards inquiries
Swift and fiery
I had the Bottle of Smoke
Inquisitions and suppositions
I had the Bottle of Smoke
[ Find more Lyrics on http://mp3lyrics.org/ENjv ]

Fuck the stewards
A trip to Lourdes
Might give the old fuckers
The power of sight
Screaming springers and stoppers
And call out coppers
But the money still
gleams in my hand like
a light

Bookies cursing
Cars reversing
I had the Bottle of Smoke
Glasses steaming
Vessels bursting
I had the Bottle of Smoke
Slip a fifty to the wife
And for each brat a crisp new five
To give me a break on
a Saturday night
When I had the Bottle of Smoke
Priests and maidens
Drunk as pagans
They had the Bottle of Smoke
Sins forgiven and celebrations
They had the Bottle of Smoke

Fuck the Yanks
And drink their wives
The moon is clear
The sky is bright
I'm happy as the horses shite
Up came the Bottle of Smoke
34
There's economic truth to the statement "without the Germans, Greeks would be starving"

This isn't racism.

But ya... it's the German's fault for forcing the Greeks to borrow all that money and it's their fault that the Greeks lied about their ability to pay it back.
35
This is racism...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/…
36
@12 Are you implying that we should still be harboring resentment towards the Germans for the Holocaust? Because while yes, it was an atrocity and Hitler was evil, the majority of the population of Germany was not Hitler. They were in the middle of a horrible economic depression and a very brilliant, charismatic leader with a vision showed up who just happened to also be a psychopath. But it's not like Hitler stomped in yelling "We should gas all the Jews!" and the rest of Germany went, "Hell yeah!" and then WWII started.

We should be careful about stereotyping an entire country with the image of one man. Most of the Germans running the country or about to be running the country in the near future weren't even born during WWII. They may just have the same arrogant ethnocentric worldview that America has. And they have a right to, they've done well. You know, like how we like to "spread democracy" because that's our thing? Well, the Germans cleaned up fiscally, so they can brag.
37
Maybe the lesson of Germany's relative success and stability is "Never spend on defense."
38
@26-
Yes Germans have a strong economy. However their culture is one of the most impoverished on earth, I'd rather live (yes as a privileged American, I get it) in any of the countries you mentioned than Germany. Yes, I have a bias- against assholes.
Berlin is the exception not the rule.

@36- It kind of happened like that. Germans just did not passively agree with the Nazi's, they were very enthusiastic participants. However I agree, this is a 'sins of their fathers' issue and Germans have done quite well in cultural gestures towards victims. It is very dangerous to characterize the Nazi movement as the actions of one man though.

One more fun anti German article fr4om the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/world/…
39
Zimbabwean property in S. Africa to be auctioned

The Associated Press
Monday, November 22, 2010; 7:10 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con…

JOHANNESBURG -- A South African court says a Zimbabwean government property in Cape Town can be auctioned to compensate three evicted white farmers in Zimbabwe for legal fees.

Willie Spies, a lawyer for white conservative group Afriforum, called the decision a "symbolic victory" for white Zimbabwean farmers.

The court ordered Monday that one of the Zimbabwean government's Cape Town houses no longer had diplomatic protection because it was being commercially rented. Three evicted farmers and a German bank to which Zimbabwe owes more than 40 million euros ($55 million) will share the revenue from the auction.

A Southern African Development Community tribunal ruled in November 2008 that Zimbabwe's land reform process was illegal and racist and ordered compensation for evicted farmers.
40
okay first of all, what the hell is an "impoverished culture"? it's fine you don't want to live in germany anywhere else but Berlin (the same is true for many Germans), however basing that on such a vague and silly term just makes you sound like a dumbass.

secondly, germans are currently a bit annoyed with greece because they, in a manner of speaking, were forced to pick up the bill for decades of greek mismanagement due to having a common currency.

and thirdly, you wanna know who else thinks Italy should be run more like germany? Italians.
41
Germans have bad food, architecture and art. Historically they are repeat offender burners of libraries and people. This is indisputably an impoverished culture. Kant, Schiller, whatever.

Italy disagrees!
42
@41, all European countries are repeat offenders at destroying culture. Who helped the Nazis? Italy. Germany TODAY, on the other hand, is a pretty lively, multicultural place. Italy is in free fall, culturally and economically. Christ, look at the state of their football.
43
"bad art"? really? is what apparently boils down to taste and selective historical perception your argument? because then I may be done here.
44
@41
Germans have bad food, architecture and art.
No way man! Bratwurst! Black Forest Cake! The Brandenburg Gate! Kolner Dom! Beethoven! Mozart! The Brothers Grimm!

Germany Rocks!
45
@ myself in 44,
Actually, I think I erred... Mozart was from Austria maybe? I'm too lazy to wiki it. Whatever though, Austria. Germany. They're pretty damn close.

But Bach was from Germany and I forgot him.
46
You forgot beer, too. Tsk, tsk.
47
stop, stop, all this talk is making me want to invade poland.
48
@38 I kind of disagree. Certainly the prejudice was already there before Hitler. But sane people can't cognitively handle the responsibility for the deaths of millions of people and stay sane. So while the German population may have been all for blaming the Jews for their woes, Kristallnacht had to happen before the ghettoes which had to happen before Auschwitz. The way to take a country of reasonable people from democracy to fascism is to do it in plateaus rather than a hill. First offend a smaller sensibility - destroying Jewish property, then let people get used to that being the new norm. It quiets protest. Then offend the next sensibility - round the Jews up and segregate them from society. And so on and so forth.

The majority of the German population weren't SS troopers. They may have been enthusiastic, but Hitler was a master at manipulating their fear and paranoia from the economic climate as well as their ethnocentric pride. And with Jews being out of sight, out of mind, it was easier for them to handle the cognitive dissonance of their values and morals versus what was actually being done in their names. But I would hardly categorize the majority of the German population at the time as bloodthirsty.

And yes, the "sins of their fathers" thing is dated.
49
@47 Whoa! Come on, man! Invading Poland jokes? Too soon. Next you'll say you want to assault the Russian border in the winter.
50
@49 is not cold enough. There could be a panzer back up on the way to Moscow.
51
Yeah, my country's kind of fucked. And there's lots of complaining, but no one seems to have an idea of an alternative.

But then, we don't do answers, we do whinging and disgruntled apathy. Though it doesn't help that they're calling for a general election and the leader of the opposition is nowhere to be seen.
52
@46,
Definitely, although if any European country is THE beer country, it's Belgium.
53
"Listen, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right"

"So! It's all forgotten now, and let's hear no more about it. So, that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Goebbels, a Hermann Goering, and four Colditz salads."
54
I agree and have the same feelings at #48. And as a German I am very much sick and tired of hearing about all and every kind of "sin of their father" shit/talk and blame that is being passed on to the younger generations who don't want to be carrying blame for assholes from the past.
55
Some smart comments mixed in with the expected race-baiting.

Fnarf @42:
Germany TODAY, on the other hand, is a pretty lively, multicultural place. Italy is in free fall, culturally and economically. Christ, look at the state of their football.

I'd given a number of examples @7 of how the Germans have achieved a sane, sustainable capitalism. And "we should like germany..." @22 gave a further endorsement of the German social contract. But Fnarf's post reminds me that even when it comes to professional soccer leagues the Germans offer a model to be emulated. See this ESPN piece on the Bundesliga:
The best league in the world?

The success and sustainability of the Bundesliga compared to the English Premier League could be a microcosm of how this global downturn has vindicated the German way and indicted the Anglo way.

Andreas @40: and thirdly, you wanna know who else thinks Italy should be run more like germany? Italians.
This reminds me of an interesting article about Italy's own in-grown economic culture: Is Italy Too Italian?

And finally, speaking of soccer, to Eric from Boulder @23, I say congrats on the Rapids. Conor Casey is is a handful. Good to see the MLS Cup in Denver.
56
Germany give Ireland can of Rize...
57
anyone who thinks the German public in '30's weren't completely anti-semetic are ignorant. they followed their leader like good little racists/right wingers do.

Please wait...

and remember to be decent to everyone
all of the time.

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