@99: Then allow me to speak some truth to you, since you seem to be shaken by the right of Americans to speak their mind and opinion on matters independently of court proceedings: fuck you.

As to Officer Birk: May the earth bless him with a life long enough to see the error of his ways, may his body curse him with the memory of that violent hand, may the courts join this curse and this blessing forevermore that he may be humbled into seeking forgiveness.

Shaken? Nah. Disgusted by the bigotry and immaturity of the comments, but neither shaken nor surprised. After all, all of you are perfectly willing to pass judgement on not just this officer but his entire department based on this one video. Fairly childish and silly, but there you have it.

Truth is something of which you clearly have no knowledge. (For your edification, 'fuck you' is not 'some truth,' at least not in the context you used. It is a command from an intellectually and emotionally retarded person with nothing more cogent to say or any authority to put his commands in action.)

'Some truth' will come out in the inquest and other investigatory proceedings. Until then people like you are just venting your hatred of of the basic rules by which we all live. I don't know what happened on Aug 30th. Nor do you. What you know is the evidence of a snippet of video which in fact 'shows' only audio.

The rule of law works. It is what makes civilization possible. For instance, in this case this shooting has been ruled unjustified and Officer Birk has been asked to surrender gun and badge pending the outcome of the inquest. Without the rule of law we would all be like you, so many chimpanzees throwing their own scat at each other.

@102: Truth, my friend, is that someone died and people are upset. I don't know how to make it any clearer to you, but there you have it. You can prattle on and on using your ill-fitting Victorian condescension for as long as you want, but in the end you aren't going to be seen as a defender of the rule of law or the cops, you'll be seen as the jackass who spit on a casket.

Or should I say, "I take umbrage at your equivocation, @102, it's pure and unmitigated piffle and balderdash. You assume the mantle of law and order but obfuscate the simple order at hand of one man's death and a questionable handling by the constabulary hence. It would behoove you to comport yourself in a more respectful manner unto those expressing dolor and dismay at the dispatching of a man that has heretofore been treated as a criminal by the officers of law when we've found ample cause to question the need for his removal from the mortal coil. I ask that you cease and desist your trite and feigned erudition and allow those with an ounce of respect for the dead to carry ourselves as one would do in such a case."

@104: Seattleblues is a troll, don't feed him. Trust me, if this were a video of an Indian shooting a cop, the last thing he'd be doing is urging everyone to remain calm and saying that a person is innocent until proven guilty.

Anyone who is not disturbed by this video is not human. Remember that Williams was also hearing impaired. And since when it is it illegal to walk down the street whittling a piece of wood with a Swiss army knife? Isn't the first badge we give to Cub Scouts their whittling chip? What, it's illegal to do that in public?

Seattleblues and Supreme Ruler, are you sure you want the government to have the authority to stop you if you're whittling on the sidewalk? Are you familiar with the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution? Is that really the kind of country you want to live in? Or is it that you want cops to have the authority to detain "other" people who are whittling on the sidewalk?

you who criticize all police based on the actions of a few are no better than republican hacks who think all muslims are terrorists because of the actions of a few.

double standard much?

@106: Heaven forbid you read the whole thread

use your eyes and ears. look at the video again with just your eyes and ears. from the 1:00 to 2:00 minute mark.

who is aggressive. who is passive.

who is shot, in the back, not the front, in less than 4 seconds.

also, out of curiosity, I just measured my big toe, on my right foot. it's 2.5 inches long.

was Williams really on his way to commit a murderous rampage in downtown Seattle with a blade a 1/2 inch bigger than my toe?

Is it illegal to own a carving knife now? Is it illegal to have a knife out in public and carving on a piece of wood? or is it just illegal to be a black man in public still?

5:06 - "He was carving up that board with it, he kind of turned towards me".

@89:

To whom was the knife a threat?

To this point in all the discussions, there does not seem to be any evidence whatsoever that Williams actually threatened anyone with the knife, was doing anything dangerous with the knife, or said anything to anyone that would indicate he intended to do anything with the knife at all.

There were in the video a number of pedestrians and a large number of vehicles, and nobody anywhere seemed threatened by a man carving a board while crossing the street in a crosswalk.

He wasn't yelling anything, he wasn't brandishing the knife at any pedestrians or vehicles, and he wasn't waving the knife around in the air.

The closest I can really come to justifying the shooting is that the officer knew he had a knife, and in theory Williams was close enough to turn around and lunge at the officer with a knife. Except that there was no evidence at all that Williams did that or intended to do that, nor is there any history of Williams doing that or threatening to do that to any officer or anyone in the past that would have been pertinent to the officer's appraisal of danger.

If the officer had stayed in his car and turned the corner and drove in front of Williams it would have been different.
If the officer hadn't walked behind him and come up close to him, you couldn't even invent the "well he was so close he might possible have done something maybe" excuse.

Here is the Seattle Police Department handling someone who was wielding a SWORD and clearly threatening people with it. They would have been very justified in shooting this man, yet they didn't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayd0fbtE_…

Interesting that this video was released on a Friday afternoon the weekend before Christmas.
Someone wants it to go by unnoticed.

Un-fing-believable. When an uprising comes, the people that protect the worst traitors to the public ( bad cops) should be the first ones sent packing. One thing I have seen mentioned on here is that bevause our social system lets people like Williams slip through the cracks, he was deprived of the bssic human respect he would have gotten had he been mentalky stable and conformed to what this idiot cop considered normal. We need to reel in the police and strengthen our social programs. This is not supposed to happen in the "idea" of America, but the reality is now on the web for all to see....murder, plain and simple.

Notice how many of the pigs have shaved heads like a membership requirement of some bully boy nazi club. Typical of punk males wishing they had real testicles between their legs instead of needing to rely on a lame substitute for them sewn onto their jacket or pinned to their shirt.

Why didn't an ambulance arrive with the police cars?

This is why you always do what a cop tells you. Even if it's the most rediculous thing and against your rights, do it. Cops have real guns with real bullets. Just hope that unlike Mr. Williams, you have time to process those instructions before you're dead on the ground.

@117: If someone behind you says "Hey hey hey, put your hands in the air" are you always going to put your hands in the air? Or are you going to turn around first to see what yokel is yelling at you (or possibly yelling at someone else)? Decide quickly, you only have a few seconds before that someone pumps four shots into you.

This makes me sick in the stomach. No wonder why there is so many people in the world that are anti America. America cops all a bunch of cowboys :( ..... Can anyone tell me what punishment the officer got?

Iz dat sum freeeeeeeedom? Stupid Americunts.

MURDER. MURDER.

The SPD are harboring killers and thugs among their number.

@119 et al

I have a home in Italy at which my family spends a couple of months a year. When there we frequently take short trips into Germany or Austria.

If I were to pick a place in which to run afoul of the law I would pick the United States. (Or you could always just obey the damn law and not have to deal with law enforcement at all. But that would just be silly!) In Italy I've had a carabinieri step in front of our car and do a document check. We weren't doing anything wrong, and got no ticket. He was just bored and wanted to push someone around. Look at Amanda Knox, who was beaten by police during interrogation (without a translator, attorney, rest, food or bathroom breaks for 14 hours.) She was recently tried for using that interrogation as a defense in her murder trial. Never mind that in fact that she had been beaten by police. In Italy truth is not a defense when accused of slandering public officials. How about the journalist Spezzi in Florence who together with Douglass Preston was railroaded by Italian police and prosecutors and even accused of murder for following a story and being critical of a botched serial murder investigation? In Germany I watched a man physically thrown by an officer for refusing an order to move out of the way. No arrest, no warrant, he just picked the man up by his lapels and chucked him into a bush. I take each of my nieces and nephews on a month long tour of Europe for graduation and give them this advice- You are in a foreign country without the civil rights you enjoy in the United States. If ordered to do something by an official, just do it. See, I don't want them to sit in a British or French or German jail cell for a year waiting to be charged, never mind go to trial.

So to all of those anti Americans posting- I wish you a very merry Christmas and a prosperous new year. If you don't like this country you are cordially invited to stay out of it.

Nice try, but nope. The SPD and county prosecutors are investigating a crime in the same way they would if you were accused of criminal behavior. Offcer iBirk has surrendered badge and gun, and a review board has judged this shooting unjustified. Sure, since he is law enforcement union regulations change some of the steps and some of the presumptions. So what? Officer Birks will face an inquest and whatever follows just as you or I would. All of you would lynch the man without giving him the due process that apparently Mr. Williams, tragically, did not receive.

For all of you who hate the police just because- Please don't call them when your home is burglarized, or when your daughter calls in panic at a college bus-stop on account of the creepy guy stalking her. Please hire personal security to patrol your neighborhoods. When the idiot 16 year old with the souped up Honda barrels down your residential street at 50 narrowly missing your kids on the bikes, don't call the cops. That road raging jerk who just pulled a pistol after nearly forcing you off the road? Your problem, but don't call the State Patrol.

Not all cops are good people, and some are downright bad people. With 1300 or so officers in the SPD, even with screening and reviews some will slip through. This is why we have disciplinary divisions within the police, and courts where these fail. All of you have the freedom to slander the vast majority of public minded decent officers keeping your streets safe. I respect that freedom, but not the use you make of it.

@128: No, you lost, you're an asshole and you're trying to take a high road you can't even reach. Fuck off.

@115: You can fuck yourself up the ass with a cactus dipped in hydrochloric acid. My uncle's a cop with a shaved head.You know why he shaves his head? Because he'd rather have a shaved head than show off his male-pattern baldness all over the place. Go eat a bag of horse dicks and choke on them. Yes, I'm a wee bit mad.

@129: Baconcat, the good Seattleblues is sadly impervious to logic. Don't get all worked up about him.
@128: How ya doin' there, Bullet Head? You know, we're not calling for Birk to be lynched. We just want him brought to justice, and we think, based on the evidence, that justice entails him going to college for a graduate degree in making license plates. You can support the police and still go after the bad apples among them, for your information.

@130

'Fuck you' is now a syllogism? I mean, I know that it's the only response the average liberal has when losing an argument, but that hardly places it on the footing of 'logic.' You might retake that course, if that's all you gleaned from logic 101.

What evidence? Or aren't they teaching 'innocent until proven guilty' at your university? See, back when I was being educated this was considered a cornerstone of American criminal law. Since the libs took over the universities, I guess that's changed. So what's the standard now, young man? We don't like cops, so they're all guilty before a trial? One cop apparently
comitted a crime, so they're all criminals. Oh brave new world....

You know what, you seem to be a bright boy. Probably with some life experience and the completion of your education you'll gain a bit of wisdom to leaven your intelligence. Until then, some courses in reading comprehension might be to your advantage. I clearly and frequently wrote that the problem isn't potentially prosecuting this officer. If he broke the law, if he murdered someone, he will pay for it. The problem is that you and your buddies here are calling for exactly the same lack of due process you believe Mr. Williams received.

tried to watch this a 2nd time but thought i'd vomit.

(where is that woman now?)

128/Seattleblues: Offcer iBirk has surrendered badge and gun, and a review board has judged this shooting unjustified. . . All of you would lynch the man without giving him the due process that apparently Mr. Williams, tragically, did not receive.

Many people here, myself included, merely feel what the review board has concluded: the shooting (and killing) or Mr. Williams by Officer Birk was unjustified.

You are (or certainly seem to be) confusing having opinions about a person's actions with wanting to deprive them of due process. Just because someone feels that Officer Birk is guilty of murder (or manslaughter) it hardly logically follows that they want to lynch him without a trial.

@131: Who said "fuck you"? You're imagining things, Seattleblues.
When I refer to evidence, I'm talking about the findings of the review board, the revelation that the knife was found closed, and the extremely short time elapsed between the orders given and the shots fired.
Anyone in this country who hates the police is an idiot. Anyone who approves of the police, but thinks that it's a crime for the state to tax its citizens is a hypocrite. I'm not saying that anyone is; I'm just throwing that statement out.
The law says he's innocent until proven guilty. I think he's guilty, based on my assessment of the facts, and I think the law will agree. Are you saying that we shouldn't express our opinions until the case is decided?

And for the record, until we "libs" took over the universities, Jews, homosexuals, blacks, and Asians were generally not allowed to study alongside you Real Americans, and any science professor who gave mention to the theory of evolution through natural selection might be in danger of losing his job. Conservatives of the past century or so don't have a very good record in terms of academic integrity.

You murdered an innocent man.

Fuck.You.Ian.Birk.

114 um just what uprising would that be , who would be in it , and who would be the target in that up rising exactly? just curious.

Rich Oneil from the police guild should be charged with rendering criminal assistance. He made up the false statement that birk signed back at the clubhouse. He's twice as guilty as Ricky Hinton. Ian Birk is a cold blooded killer.http://www.flickr.com/photos/soggydan/5124701233/

@139: You mean this?

Do Americans really believe the national anthem ?
Would those that do please wake up now that there are dozens of countries those two lines describes more accurately than the USA.
Home of the brave. (yeah brave cop)
Land of the free. (free to walk the streets without fear)

Can you relate? We're living in a police state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7FJ4AvdT…

@135

You referred to the erudite rebuttal offered at 131 when pointing out my so clear lack of ability to be logical. The sum of that rebuttal appears to be 'I know you are, but what am I?' followed by a 'fuck you.' Yes, I realize that this is the height of logical form for most liberals, so I guess I AM ignorant of logic if this is logic.

For the rest, since I see no disagreement you show with the bigotry and hatred of the police displayed here in post after post, I assume you share it.

Re 138

Any, you know, proof of that allegation? No? Huh.

What you just did is called libel (or slander, depending on whether venting a hateful and ignorant if not actually intentionally dishonest opinion on some blog is publishing or speaking.) If Rich Oneil has any sense he'll sue you for whichever fits best.

Re 141

Then move to one of those 'dozens' of countries which are in your opinion fit the lines better.

Re 142

You're a racist and a fool. The 'music' you linked to is ugly chanting to a cannned drumline with no actual musical content. People like those who created this 'music' are much of the reason for lingering racism in caucasions incapable of separating scum like that out from law abiding hard working minority populations. Like all hip hop it has more connection to the mindless rhyming of a 4 year old child to no particular rhythm or harmony than to Bach or even Springsteen. Heck the violent kenetics of Black Sabbath come closer to music than the trash that is hip hop. Sorry, a correction is in order. If an angry, deeply psychotic and violent 4 year old misogynist child was mindlessly singing to himself, it would sound like this hip hop. Thank God libs don't have charge of children until kindergarten, or such a child might possibly exist.

Seattlebullshitblues: "The SPD and county prosecutors are investigating a crime in the same way they would if you were accused of criminal behavior. "
Bullshit. If you or I were accused of MURDER, we would be in JAIL! Ian Birk is NOT IN JAIL where he belongs!!!!! Other than that, I find you to just generally be full of shit.

If we were indicted for murder and were either refused or could not raise bail then yes, we would be in jail, as would Officer Birks.

Since Officer Birks has not actually been charged with a crime he isn't now in jail. After the inquest on January 10th that may change. There are differences in initial process between you or I and law enforcement for very good reasons that are established within the law. I don't have time to educate you on basic civics and jurisprudence. However, you hate the police, are willing to judge them and this officer on the basis of a few seconds of video and aren't intelligent enough to understand these concepts anyway.

I get that in the fuzzy vague half light that is a liberal mind concepts like rule of law, due process, innocent until proven guilty and so on are subjective. I understand that you believe them to be applicable only to rapists or minorities or traitors like Bradley Manning or valueless scum like Julian Assange. For those of us with a grasp on reality these terms do apply to miscreants who aren't law enforcement. But they also apply to those in the law enforcement community charged with crimes. The standard isn't 'do I like the accused?' but 'is the accused due a day in court like any other person?' Again, I know that liberals don't get this, but there you have it.

Incidentally, I love the well reasoned arguments against providing this officer with the same treatment any of you would want in similar circumstances.

My basic premise has been the following-

Officer Birks looks to have comitted a crime, based on a few seconds of video in which neither man is actually in camera range. Within standard police investigative procedure he was judged to have fired his weapon without justification. He now has neither badge nor gun and cannot act as an officer of the law until the facts are established by the normal rules of evidence any of us would insist on were we in similar straits. An inquest is scheduled into the tragic and possibly criminal death of John Williams. If the inquest finds criminal intent, Officer Birks will likely face charges of at least manslaughter, if not murder. The law is doing what the law is supposed to do in these cases. Failing the ability to bring Mr. Williams back, all it can do is dispassionately investigate the incident and dispassionately prosecute a crime if one occured.

To which the responses have been adolescent, at best. 'Fuck you' stands in for rational dispute, while 'you're full of shit' is somehow intended to refute any of the above.
The reason America is a center right nation is that liberals are so manifestly paralyzed in maturation. Your beliefs, reasoning abilities and maturity levels are those of a 13 year pothead rather than a adult citizen. Accordingly, you are in the minority politically and will remain so until you grow up.

Seattleblues, please spare us the anti-librul whining.

If the same video surfaced, but Ian Burk had not been a police officer, you can bet your ass he'd have been charged with murder by now. The fact that he hasn't, coupled with the popular opinion that police officers are almost never punished in any meaningful way for abusing their positions of authority, makes some of us feel a bit frustrated by the fact that this piece of shit -- best we can tell from a revealing bit of audio prefaced by very clear video -- is on paid vacation right now and not sobbing in a jail cell, awaiting his day in court, wishing he could afford bail.

I'm with Fnarf on this one:

@78:

WHERE'S DIAZ?

It all comes from Chief Diaz. He's the patrol officer's boy. They know he will always support them; that's how he got to be chief. If you know you can get away with murder, you'll sink to murder.

It's been almost four months; why are we not hearing the sounds of balls being busted over there? Because Diaz works for the officers, not the other way around.

It's not about Birk. Birk screwed up. It happens. He misread the situation and made a deadly error. The problem is the attitude that Birk carried with him into that situation, which every officer carries with him, and about the cover they know they have from any repercussions. That's not Birk's fault, it's Diaz's.

@88:

Well, I know that if I was mayor, the chief would be in my office right now, and I'd be telling him, look, I don't give a shit about OPA or anyone else or what they think; _I'M_ telling you that this is unacceptable to _ME_ and I want to hear how you're going to get the force under control, and I want to hear it very soon. I don't want to hear about promises and investigations and action plans and bullet points; I want to hear that this shit is stopped, and that every single one of your officers understands that, or I'm going to be hearing you packing up your desk.

Unfortunately, there's no way the mayor can win a showdown like that. He picked the wrong man. He simply doesn't have the power to control his own force. The SPOG is going to tell him, "it's OK, man, we've got it, it'll never happen again" and then it will happen again.

SPOG's support of the worst SPD has to offer puts us all in danger.

To clarify, I agree with Fnarf's statements except for the part about this not being Birk's fault. I don't care how much hyper-aggressive motherfucking macho cop culture surrounds someone, stopping to hassle a stumbling old drunk with a pocket knife, warning him to put down his knife, then waiting FIVE SECONDS before shooting him dead is not acceptable. If Birk doesn't know that, then he is truly a psychopath and should be treated as such.

Diaz needs to shake things up and root out the rest of the psychopaths on the force. Apologies to the 90+% who are good people, but I take their silence as acceptance. Speak up about the "bad apples" or expect to be treated like you support them, officers.

@153: Um, seems he closed it between being seen with it open and being shot with it closed. And everyone who watched the video says, "I saw a guy walking across the street in the crosswalk before a cop pulled up, stopped in the intersection, got out of the car, followed the man just outside of the view of the camera, told the man to drop the knife a couple times, then shot him dead."

That was MURDER... I dont care how you look at it.

‎9 Seconds elapsed from between the time the officer got out the car, and fired 3 shots. I wish I could see a video of what took place but either way have you ever heard of dont bring a knife to a gun fight... theres a reason people say that... This is just straight MURDER...

Here is a second thought, just be very careful when you walk the streets of Seattle.... Very Careful. I have a buddy who is a LAPD Police office and I just talked to him (He Called Just By Chance After I Got Done Watching This Video) I told him what I just watched and forwarded him the link, before he even watched it he told me in his Unit they have a joke, its called "Pulling A SPD"... He is from Seattle originally and the joke is aimed at him and his counter parts will say "Hey XXXXX, you gonna pull a SPD today" or in other words kill a citizen. He told me after he watched the video and we were on the phone, to be very careful because this could easily happen again and he doesnt want to see me get shot over having a cell phone, pocket knife or in my case a micro phone or something in my hand and that he wants to see me alive when he comes home for the holiday. What does that say about the SPD?

"Pulled an SPD today" ... Well as long as the officer is SAFE that is all that matters ...
Washington State has a BIG PROBLEM! After my 19 year old brother died in custody ... we protested ... After burrying him, I was pulled over, my truck towed, left on the side of the street, with no radar cert to prove speeding, (oh and my beat up truck won't even go 70). Also same officer pulled over another sibling leaving the same protest also for speeding ... kinda makes you go HUM ... that doesn't sound right!

Local paper claimed he was a RAPIST so no one cared ... Media would not cover it either!!

Hope your children and family members are safe from the SPD!! Denial Kills!!

@99, "I could have sworn I grew up in a country where a man was innocent until proven guilty." Cry me a river.

This coming from the person who wants to try and convict Bradley Manning of treason before he's had his due process.

@131

Also, seattleblues, as a person on the receiving end of that phrase: fuck you, my fiend.

Look at all those cop cars, pointed towards the murder scene. Why haven't they released THOSE dashcam vids??? I don't relish the fact to see Mr. Williams' dead body, but I'd like to see what they were doing throughout this vid that we can only hear, not see.

Also, who and WHERE is this young lady that witnessed this act? I certainly understand how she is shook up and scared and maybe laying low, but she really needs (needed?) to step forward with her version of the events, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, is she ok? If I were her I would be TERRIFIED to be on SPD radar in this context.

Lots of rumors swirling, but Mr. Williams WAS known to SPD, and I wonder if Officer Birk had previous contact with him and when he saw him crossing the street, took that opportunity to settle some kind of score?

We all know now that Officer Birk will not be brought to justice for this vile act, and he has resigned. So, what does that mean? He got away with murder (manslaughter?), with only losing his job/career as a consequence??!!! (Small price to pay.) He deserves to stand trial and do time.

People, watch your backs, ESPECIALLY if you are of color. SPD is gunnin' for you. And remember to vote responsibly.

RIP Mr. John. T. Williams
xxxx

PS - To the Williams family, take them and break them ($$$$$$$$$$$)

Say what you want about him, Seattleblues is substantially more articulate and well reasoned than all of his critics combined. That said, it hurts me all the more deeply to cast my lot with the ostensible liberals on this one. When otherwise good cops close ranks around their worst, as they almost always do, the line between good cop and bad cop goes away. Cronyism corrupts. I want desperately to believe that cops are weeding out their sadists, racists and misanthropes, but I'm continually reminded that it's a long, slow and uphill process. Hampered start to finish by police unions, peer pressure, and misguided loyalties. I know in my bones that if any cop was ever to shoot me, that it would be:

a. a wrongful shooting

b. covered up and lied about by other cops

In response to the guy who said that it's a lot worse in Europe, I can only wholeheartedly agree. I wasn't feelin' too much love from the Gendarmes when I visited Vienna many years ago. Still, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to get better here in the USA regardless. Even in Socialist Utopia, the cops step on your neck with a pretty heavy boot. Think about that, Obama lovers. The object of your worship, the omnipotent state, cannot be at once, both bigger AND kinder.

There are so many things that I admire about this forum. First and foremost, that I may comment on this story and reply to the comments of others. In my home state of New Jersey, to comment publicly on many/most on-line periodicals guarantees a certain and timely death in First Amendment terms. To speak out in defense of the innocent and their plight here often invites angry rhetoric that results in immediate and violent backlash, or worse yet, censorship and the denial of any response in this kind of Public Forum. To you, citizens of Seattle, I congratulate you and pay homage to your bastion of Liberty. I ask only that, if you truly love your freedom and liberty, repent ypur evil ways, beg for Mr. Birk's forgiveness, pray that you and your loved ones are never the victims of crime and have a nice day.....jerk-offs.

Bubba

This is a straight-up murder, police officer or not.