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Never mind how maddening it has to be to hear that you aren't really bi when you get into a LTR. A bi man who ends up with a man is likely to get even more skepticism that they aren't gay.
What if some days I feel like looking at porn of ladies and other days I feel like looking at porn of dudes?
And all this from a fag who has the hots for a certain female firefighter? Admit it: teh bi is for realz.
However, an amazing graduate student at University of Utah replicated the Rieger et al. study changing three things she identified as potential flaws (pretty sure the operational definition of bisexual was one of them) and found results completely consistent with what you'd expect to see if bi/straight/gay men (and women) really are what they say. Unfortunately, I don't think it's been published yet, which is sad because I'd love to see it get some press (I saw her present at APA's convention last summer).
I think all Dan Savage does here is suppose statistics. Admittedly, statistics is not the domain of anecdote, reliably, but is much better suited to empirical study.
Call me a cynic, but I think that most "bi" guys who are in a relationship with a female are 9 times out of 10 closeted gay. Just the way I see it...
If a woman meets a sweet, attractive bi guy and they have a great relationship and great sex, and he leaves her for a guy and declares himself gay, why is that worse than him leaving her for another woman? I mean, if the sex or relationship is a mess (which I'd think it would be if he were closeted), she should have dumped him for that anyway.
I don't mind the skepticism too much (after all, bi is a stepping stone of self-identification for many), and I can understand why true bisexuality seems threatening. Part of this is stems from wrongful assumption that bisexual = slut who has to have sex with both genders to be satisfied, and part of it comes from general insecurity, which I call the "I can compete against another man/woman, but how do I compete against a member of the opposite sex" syndrome. But it really comes down to the questions any other couple faces as to monogomy and the meaning of GGG within the partners' sexual desires/needs/fetishes.
Over the years, my husband has gone from doubting the existence of bisexuality in general to really wanting to watch me have sex with a woman.
I actually know quite a number of bisexual men who are well into their 40s or older, and who are definitely not just going through a phase. Or if they are, it's a very, very long phase.
a) check
b) out and active since HS, check
c) check [het women are more plentiful, but it's easier to get into mens' pants]
d) cover it on the first date, check
So I'm exactly the kind of fella LW is looking for--4 for 4 on her check-list. The only problem is my check-list:
a) People that don't have bullshit off-the-bat critical and mistrustful check-lists.
More or less what @ 13 said. I don't dig poeple who go in distrusting me. If I'm a prick of any stripe I should get to earn that blame fair and square.
He's dated guys. He's had sex with them and loved them and had his heart broken by them and broken a few hearts himself. He knows exactly how much he likes men, but he chose me over any of them.
All of the gay guys I've known who temporarily identified as bi were pretty inexperienced when they said that. Once they got a good taste of the cock, they had it figured out.
See bibrain.org . http://www.bibrain.org .
And if that's the position you take, fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
What of a woman hetero married for years who comes out as lesbian? A married man who comes out as gay? A person who comes out in their 40s as transgender? Perhaps they're lying as well because all the data that you have up to that point says they're straight and cisgender? Of course not, you'd never say that. I hope.
Never mind your data is bad. The test used to generate data by NYT sucks to determine sexuality - orientation and porn preference are not that closely entwined. And really, I love the Times, but when your article title is "Straight, Gay, or Lying?", I have no interest in anything else you have to say because no matter what data you're going to be talking about your mind is already made up.
So yeah, it's biphobic. Bi people can totally be biphobic, just like gay guys can really hate those effeminate gay guys and if that's not homophobic I don't know what is.
I think there are a lot of bi guys out there who just find it easier to just be with men or women and avoid the drama and suspicion. It's a rare and wonderful man who is comfortable enough with his sexuality to be openly bisexual.
Dan, from now on, every time you're called a genocidal biphobic monster asshole bigot asshole monster, post this. Every time.
This is absolutely true. But I don't think that either Dan or texmex are biphobic. They're just realistic with a helping of cynicism on the side.
"I'd date a Christian, as long as he's a UCC type of Christian."
"I'd date a leftist as long as she didn't try to drag me to the protests."
"I'd date someone without a college degree, but he'd need to be self-educated."
"I'd date a republican, but not a neocon-type. I Meghan McCain-type."
"I'd date an alcoholic, but she'd need to have been sober at least a year and never miss a support group meeting."
"I'd date a sports-lover, but he'd have to understand that I'm never going to games with him."
And on and on. It's all about our preferences, boundaries, and autonomy. And our own protection of ourselves. Relationships are difficult and can really hurt if/when they don't work out.
Texmex simply stated the standards by which she'd date a bisexual. And they really don't seem all that draconian.
I get bones at both, and I'm 100% gay, so what's your point?
I don't think the bi guy gets to play that card. It just seems kinda douche-y to me. I wouldn't play that card and I might kick the guy who does to the curb.
Either you are a monogamous couple or you aren't. If you are, then biguy gave up being with everyone else for you. Let him watch bi porn if he wants. But if you both agreed your relationship would be monogamous, then he knew the score when he entered it. If you are not a monogamous couple, then I think it would be wrong for you not to consider letting him play with some breasts and vag once in awhile, subject to whatever rules you have agreed to re thirds.
I can't speak from experience about nonmonogamy, though theoretically I'd allow various preconditions as reasonable. I hadn't considered the differences between No Women and No Other Men - interesting. I could see G telling B, "Lips that touch [blank] shall never touch mine," but then B should make a similar restriction for balance.
I do, however, get worked up about bad science. That study you keep referencing qualifies. For a start, the sample size was 101 men, only 33 of whom were in the bisexual group. Thirty three is not a big enough to get an accurate picture when dealing with people. About of a third of the men in each group weren't turned on at all by porn of either type. That brings the bisexuals whose responses they base their conclusions on down to about 22. It also leads into the point that, as you clearly know, there are a whole hell of a lot of different things that turn different people on, for different reasons. You've run letters from lesbians who like gay male porn, gay men into S&M games with women, and loads of fetishists more turned on by a set of heels or than by the wearer. There was no double blind used - the reserchers are the ones who did the interviewing and selected the porn the participants watched and interpreted the results. Typically, a person who only wants to have sex or romance with someone of the opposite sex will identify as straight and a person who only wants to have sex or romance with someone of the same sex will call themselves gay. That leaves a whole lot of middle ground lumped into bi - people who envision longterm intimacy with one sex but like to fuck the other, who like both equally, who like boobs and dick but not pussies and chest hair, who are only into one of the sexes if they are being dominated or dominating, who are exclusively attracted to the androgenous, who would be straight but find gay sex transgressively kinky and therefore hot, etc. Bi men can be turned on only by gay porn AND STILL BE BI. Even if both types of porn are matched in set, quality, themes, acts, enthusiasm, etc., which seems difficult to achieve. There is a selection bias for bisexuals on the higher end of the Kinsey scale in recruiting participants through "gay and alternative" newspapers. Self-selection is notoriously unreliable. I'd like to know more about the copy of the ads.
Plus, it's great to be with someone you don't have to explain yourself to. And he might be more open to the idea of polyamory or open relationships--or at least discussing the subject.
I'd say there's a weak correlation at best between how politically active in favor of LGBTQ acceptance someone is and how sure and comfortable they are with their own sexuality.