Blogs Feb 10, 2011 at 8:43 am


not to mention the children...
Anti gay marriage people are like broken records. They keep repeating the same shit again and again, and, like actual vinyl records, they're obsolete and outdated.
"...then we shouldn't permit the obese to marry the non-obese. The odds that the skinny spouse will be ultimately be seduced into the risky obese lifestyle are simply too great and the potential health consequences too severe.

How could you fail to add..."THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"...??
Seriously, as parents impart their open-mindedness or bigotry to their children, so do they impart their healthy or unhealthy eating habits.

** $20 bucks says 300 comments by noon...
Outraged fat activists in 10, 9, 8...

This one's gonna be GOOD. I'll be right back with the popcorn.
To be honest, I wish I had the healthy body of half the gay men I've ever known or met. I don't know if some of you are genetically blessed or the world's most successful workout rats.
It is not illegal to smoke in specific settings despite smoking's clearly deleterious effect upon one's health; it is not illegal to go mountain climbing despite the clear risks involved; it is not illegal to spend all day sitting in front the computer, eating snacks and becoming increasingly corpulent and socially maladjusted. There are many potentially risky behaviors attached to life-style choices which are not illegal. Add to that, the insistence of a government that its constituents not cause any harm to themselves is an intimation of the belief that government owns its citizens, like chattel, and has the right to prevent them engaging in risky behaviors which could cause harm to themselves.

Any supposedly small-government minded politician should find such arguments against gay marriage abhorrent.
Canuck, I believe you're right in thinking "marriage battle of gay vs. fat" may be a commenting blockbuster for Slog today.
So gus, do you think thin porn watchers make better spouses than overweight cookie bakers????

(heh heh)
$20 bucks says 300 comments by noon...
- Canuck

Yep. I'm making popcorn now.
@2: vinyl records are outdated?…
I am at the ready, Venomlash. But no popcorn for me! It's restricted in my diet, even though I anot one of those workout rats. (And of course I love the stuff!)
How does one go about reporting Dan for trolling?

I thank Dan for linking to a better write up of the Framingham, Mass data reanalysis, but the point about the data set @110 "Half a Cinnabun Is Better Than One" being flawed still stands. Additionally, they admitted pretty much everyone got fat, making the timing interesting, but not necessarily supportive of the conclusions bandied about.

Frankly, given that there are pretty successful treatments for obesity, I'm thinking we'll see more bullshit about "curing the gays" than outraged "fat activists".
I use the fat-ban argument all the time just because of the ick factor. gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because the idea of gay people having sex icks some people out, I guess. But the idea of fat people having sex icks out people too, so why are they allowed to marry? Oh yeah, because it would be wrong to deny them rights based on other people picturing them fucking.
Also, fat people raise their kids to eat junk food and to over eat it. And slow metabolisms can be genetic. There's a very strong case to be made that fat marriage is bad for kids. It's a sarcastic case, but it's there to be made.
@ 12 And the Netherlands have one of the highest life expectancies (if not the highest) in the world.
@ 15 Please look up the word "sarcasm" in the dictionary.
You're ruining my analogy!

*Shakes fist*
I suppose we should also ban the following groups from marrying because of their propensity to have problems:
Smokers: short life spans
Soldiers: short life spans and higher rate of domestic abuse
Celebrities: short life spans and virtually none of them can hold down a marriage for more than a few years.
Christians: likely to indoctrinate children to their questionable lifestyle and likely to be gay.
People with Cancer: short life spans and drain resources from society with high medical bills

BTW, does anyone else find it odd that the only time conservatives are concerned with contributing to society (and other collectivist/communist thoughts) is when someone's not following their moral guidance?
Anyone who uses the expression "the AIDS" unironically should be immediately disqualified from having their opinion on anything taken seriously, ever again.
Gah, BOTH of these arguments are laaaaaaaame. I'm no fat activist, & I get the need to respond to the original lame-o "stats" but the idea of banning fat marriage is merely a "let's push buttons" response. Indeed, popcorn will be necessary.
If we ban fat people getting married, it would mean that no one in the South could get married..

It makes sense, though, in that it points out that if these people really were motivated to ban gay marriage for the reasons they say they are, they wouldn’t be targeting gay marriage specifically. They’d be targeting every relationship containing the “fault” that they claim to have with gay marriage: infertility, low life expectancies, step-parenthood, etc. Pointing out that these supposed “faults” are not unique to gay marriage exposes their arguments for what they are: excuses for people who simply don’t like queers and want to make their lives worse. It exposes the fact that this is the only motivation that can consistently explain the desire to ban gay marriage and gay marriage only.
Maybe marriage in general should be banned.
Dan's tried and true method of diverting gay hate? Find a group that's more politically correct to mock and dump it on them.

Yeah, I get that it's satire. But I'm not laughing.
Awww, no angry sloths? I sad. I needed entertainment.
This is officially beyond ridiculous.

Why stop with gay people and fat people and smokers? I mean, I'm sitting here in a marriage with a genetic predisposition to a faulty heart valve.

That ain't right.

Let's take this to its logical conclusion and have all marriages require the permission of a licensed actuary.
26: Read my post. It's not "dumping it on them." It’s pointing out the ridiculousness of banning gay marriage by applying their same reasoning to groups that nobody would think to exclude from marriage rights. Don't be so trigger-happy with the anti-fat accusations. You'll get plenty of opportunities to accuse dan of this.
Certainly, as a fat faggot, I have a hard time not eating a banana licentiously to ease the pain and torment. Dan, you are so cruel!

"And madame, i will be sober in the morning, but you will still be ugly."
@14 How sad that you can't have popcorn! It's so low-fat though!! If it's not an allergy thing, may I suggest buying bulk kernels and popping them in a bit of olive oil in a pan at home....makes the cheapest snack ever, takes up no space in the cupboard, and you can make it taste like whatever you want!
@22, 26 & 28: with your apparently broken sarcasm meters, I hope you never stumble across Jonathan Swift in your casual reading.
@ 32 - I don't have a broken sarcasm meter. Dan's made plenty of great points in favor of marriage equality, & I am an outspoken (I'm sure some o' my pals might say too much so!) advocate for gays being able to marry. I got that the first "stats" (bogus ones) given needed responding to. & there's a very real obesity problem in our country, which has many causes; Dan's right about obesity being socially distributed sometimes. This particular post just struck me as a bit of a cheap shot & the same ol', same ol', pick on some fatties, as that's gonna be funny.

Been reading Dan since the early 90's & sometimes find him to be very eloquent. His choice of how to respond just didn't happen to grab me this time. Doesn't mean I don't understand the point, such as it was.

Of course, the ORIGINAL lame-o, gays shouldn't marry as their lifespans are shorter BS is much worse.
Diverticulitis. Not fun. Probably caused by all the popcorn I used to eat!
There is no such thing as a fat activist.
You know who probably has the shortest life expectancy?

Old people.

Ban old marriage.
(who is, herself, getting up there)
You coulda gone with smokers for your comparison, Dan. Or people who work dangerous jobs. Or people with short life expectancies due to hereditary illness. Or people with depression. Or people who aren't white. You know, any of those many, many statistical groups who have lower-than-average life expectancies. You really, actually could have.

I'm just saying, is all.
Fat fuckers.

I got the joke. Then I extended the joke to an even more ludicrous extreme.

My irony may be broken because it's off the scale right now.
@ 33 - You DO have a broken sarcasm meter.
@ 37 - Considering the statistics on obesity in the US, fat people are the biggest minority group (soon to be a majority), so as a sarcastic tool, it was the most efficient group to mention.

Of course, it does offend people with broken sarcasm meters, or those who never had one. But maybe they should get a life. Just saying.
300 messages by noon didn't pan out, sadly. I'm still making more popcorn.

mmm, popcorn.
@ 42 So now we have to ask Canuck if we have to split those $20 dollars between all of us, or if she meant 20 bucks for each and every slogger.
@ Ricardo: sure, if you say so. I usually appreciate the snarky tone here on Slog. & I have a very full life, thx.
@ 44 - Dan's whole point was that it IS ridiculous to ban fat marriage. That's what sarcasm is. If you blame him for using that obviously stupid argument, then you just didn't get it.
I don't care, fat people are A.) expensive and 2.) SO annoying when sitting next to one any airplane. Christ, MUST you all breath SO loud?! I know you just walked 200 yards in short bursts which is more exercise than probably your collective life, but JESUS H, STFU. It's like sitting next to Vader.

And don't give me this "i work out all the time, I eat right, it's genetic" crap. You're fat because you CHOOSE to be fat. If nothing is working then maybe it is a bigger health problem.

P.S. I'm pretty sure that Fried Chicken Salad with extra Ranch Dressing isn't helping (or healthy). So don't say "I eat salads all the time IDK what's wrong" and then drench any salad in dressing. Please fatty, you're fooling NO ONE but yourself.
/on any airplane. Sorry a fat person got in my way. Goddamn fatties.
@Ricardo - it's okay. Point gotten, & there are a number of other groups Dan could have applied the same analogy to (smokers, high risk job-havers, as pointed out above.)

Dan's attitude towards fat folks is mixed. The point behind his usual writing about obesity it is true: as a nation we have a weight problem. He brings up obesity a lot*. Sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's just mean. Yesterday it was just like - oh, this tired ol' thing again.

* =…

But I & my busted sarcasm meter appreciate the original point, which is, damn, those Iowan GOP assholes are using specious reasoning to support their bigotry. :) On that, we agree!

@ 48 - Twenty years ago, smokers would probably have been the example Dan used, and they were indeed constantly being targeted for the same reasons that he now mentions when talking about obesity.

Nowadays, however, there are WAY fewer smokers, and the number 1 health problem IS obesity. Which makes it logical for him to have used that as a sarcastic tool.

My point: no matter what you think about Dan's attitude towards obese people, yesterday's post was, for once, absolutely NOT an instance of his alleged bias.
Ricardo: okay, I see your view. :) & the comma, for once, comma, helps. ZOMG! A discussion ends civilly online! What will I do w/ m'self now..?

Gays in my fingers crossed for ya.

@34. tres tragique! I'll pop one for my homies...
@ 50 - I know, rare thing. What will you do with yourself now? I don't know, get offline and enjoy the weekend? :-)
You're right, in order to prove how worthy we are to be a part of society, the best thing to do is point out the greater unworthiness of someone else. Why not ask society to up its game instead?
Thanks, Dan. I am definitely in favor of same-sex marriage. And fat marriage, too. And totally in favor of you becoming a tad more mature and a tad less judgmental. Can you up your game?
You're right, in order to prove how worthy we are to be a part of society, the best thing to do is point out the greater unworthiness of someone else. Why not ask society to up its game instead?
Thanks, Dan. I am definitely in favor of same-sex marriage. And fat marriage, too. And totally in favor of you becoming a tad more mature and a tad less judgmental. Can you up your game?
This is a pathetic argument. Ban fat marriage, ban gay marriage, ban marriage between races (it was a law at one time, people). While we're at it, can we ban marriages between stupid people? The list of banned marriages could go on and on.

You know what the real problem is? LABEL PROPAGATION! Gay, straight (“Breeder” for you Dan), fat, thin, black, white, tall, thin, ADD, ADHD...this culture is overwrought with labelers waiting to put a label on something-EVERYTHING. We don't just wear alligaotrs on our shirts or polo ponies to show our status, now we actually have to label our skin, our mindset, our physical composite-and anything else we can think of.

Can’t we just be people? Do all these labels REALLY matter? Would you love your mother less if she were fat, short, stupid, or interacial? See? We draw the line when we have an emotional attachment to someone. It's easy to throw the label at a stranger, isn't it?
In the end, we all have the same thing-gray matter upstairs/brains and SOME of us (not all) have a heart/compassion. Hell, and I’m even a REPUBLICAN *gasp* (just wanted to add ANOTHER label for you to stereotype with).

Dan, since you like labels so much, please kiss my big fat ripply white heterosexual ass that I normally refer to as finely sculpted muscle (except in instances such as this-when my "white trash" label is warranted).
Shame on you, Dan. Just because you're gay, doesn't mean you get to be a bigot. As a gay man, I have to say it. Shame on you for all the mean things you say to make people feel a little worse about their bodies. Shame on you for all the racist words you said during Prop 8. Sometimes your funny. Sometimes you are compassionate. But most of the time, you're not someone worthy of being read by so many people.
I hate to nit-pick (or, on second thoughts, maybe I don't), but "include including" is not correct -- the "including" should be deleted from the post. Otherwise, crystal-clear and accurate as usual, Dan!
@36-Geni-you are hilarious.
Dan Savage can go fuck himself. I'm a mostly gay overweight man who might marry a man someday. Dig the tunnel.
The reason why the fat comparison works best is not so much for the argument of limited life expectancy, but because of the side argument that the reason some straight people have trouble countenancing gay marriage is the thought of gay sex, and comparing it to the visual of fat sex. Although I suppose smoker sex could be considered revolting to some.

Someone proposed banning marriage. That's good but doesn't go far enough. I propose banning sex. . . .
um, i know Savage is getting served right now over at Lindy's place (it's a wonderful post, yay Lindy), but isn't his entire post here tongue and cheek? of course one can't and shouldn't ban "fat marriage." that isn't his point. it is precisely bc being overweight has nothing to do with whether or not two people should get married that he's using it as a comparison to marriage between gays. he's not suggesting discrimination against the overweight, he's simply suggesting that there is no good rationale for discriminating against gays.
@ 56 - You're right, he shouldn't be read by so many people who can't read.

Dan, I generally like your stuff. But this fat stuff? Lay off already. We all know you like thin, fit guys. That's fine, it's your opinion, and hey, I happen to share your preference. But please, schmearing fat folk is way, way beneath someone who does their best to put out quality information for real people in a real world the way you do. You deal with bigotry all the time, don't keep doing this yourself.
They clearly shouldn't permit people to marry who might eventually have kids and then divorce, either. It's mentally and physically traumatizing/scarring for the children. Depression can create lower life expectancies too. Or lead to obesity. Double whammy!

Yup, he's getting attacked over here as well.
I don't know whether it's more funny or more sad when satire goes completely over someone's head. Swift comes to mind, as I think others have said. :/


Nobody's comfortable on an airplane, fat or thin. It's a small, cramped space no matter how inexplicably scrawny you are. Out of everyone on the plane, what the fuck makes you so special, other than the fact that you can fit a grand total of 15 bananas into your vagina and still manage to walk comfortably?

You are a selfish bitch. Shut the fuck up and deal, you corpse-in-makeup, and quit jabbing your zombified elbows into my side.

It's a three hour ride from here to Albuquerque.

Trust me, I can make it feel a loooooot longer.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Fuck you, Dan Savage, you fat-hating bigot. (Fat people are not safe from discrimination. Except for a handful of jurisdictions, no laws protect fat people from weight discrimination in employment, public accommodations, education, housing, and medical care. CPS officials sometimes take fat children from loving families who have done nothing wrong. China prohibits fat Americans from adopting children there. In New Zealand, people can be prohibited from immigrating for being fat. And as Chris Christie makes perfectly clear: no fat presidents allowed.)
Also, obviously, using any sort of health argument to justify bigotry just doesn't work. Duh. Stop it!
Not that judging health based on weight in any way accurate or beneficial to anyone.a
Dear dan savage: shame on you for further marginalizing a group of people who are continually bullied by the media, health professionals, etc. i get your point here, and i support your overall goal, but please remember that fat kids die bc of mindless hatespeech, regardless of how eloquent, or how tongue in cheek the writer intended. I grew up fat and queer in a small town and i am sick of it being the last acceptable please stop with your muffin top commentaries. I want to like you. People respect you and all you have done.
We don't need to loose weight, YOU NEED TO LOOSE HATE. Dan, you are a hateful, over-privileged bigot, who wrote this and now all the other bigots are chiming in with fat jokes. Shame on you. Grow the fuck up.

I wonder how soon your misogyny and fear/hatred/objectification of fat people will finally begin to interfere with adventures (& paychecks) of "Dan Savage: Edgy Gay Guest Star" ? Someday I hope folks like Ira will get over the crush they got the first time they heard a witty gay man talk about sex and realize that you aren't fresh or encompassing or respectful & that plenty of other queers are.

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