Comments

1
Why are you awake Dan? I'm so confused.
2
Of course he's conservative. He likes family, and liberals hate family.
3
What's parostition? Is that a mangling of prostitution?
4
What in Zeus' name is pro-legalized-parostition? Is this a new religion? Or do you mean prostitution?
5
By the way, Dan, aren't you proud people are discussing you so openly? Looks like you're really going to make -- nay, have already made! -- your presence felt in this little world of ours...
6
I read the initial post and it rather made my eyes bleed. So basically he's saying that if you aren't totally against the nuclear family you're a Republican??? Really?!?!?! That is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Someone who claims that the nuclear family is the only option would be a conservative. Someone that promotes people living their lives however they see fit so long as it's ethical and embodies a general respect for others, and the nuclear family is on the menu of acceptable options for everyone is not in the least Republican. Why are people so mind numbingly stupid? Why?
7
Dan, a conservative? Ha!
8
Debating which category someone belongs in is about the most boring activity on earth.
9
@1, Dan posted this at 8:11 his time. The better question might be "why are you up so early?"
10
Well, without Googling the author, I'm going to guess that by his use of the term "bog standard," and by the "advertisements" on the sidebar that he's a Brit...and I don't necessarily expect a Brit to understand the finer nuances of American ideology (no offense, Brit and other Slog readers, you are of course, the exceptions...) So yeah, duh, you aren't conservative or Republican, but you do like some things that conservatives like (like marriage and families), but that doesn't *make* you a Republican. I have, however, thought that you have some what I call "small c conservative" (to distinguish from the political party here) views, namely, not the "me first" ideology that permeates so many relationships, and puts the unit of the family ahead of personal short-term gain at times. Doesn't make you a Republican.

Re: The Iraq war...I was also "for it before I was against it," mainly because I stupidly believed some of the rhetoric, and because I was so appalled by what had happened, and didn't connect the dots in the right way at first. It's okay to admit you're wrong, though. I don't think Republicans do that very often. I was wrong about it, and I've never voted Republican, either.
11
Only an anarchist would think Dan is too conservative.
12
Dan is a liberal in the true sense of the word - open-minded, compassionate, pragmatic, and not beholden to ideological orthodoxies, be they of the left or the right.
13
Why are you getting so meta-blog on us Dan. Would be more interested in a response to Dueholm then this response to a response to a response of Dueholm's article.
14
@12 you've put it perfectly.

What stumps me is that I consider myself fairly conservative in my views and I'm pretty much pro everything Dan states here (assuming "parostition" is "prostitution"). One thing Dan does that a lot of liberals don't is tout personal responsibility. The republicans pay a lot of lip service to personal responsbility but don't actually do anything about it. Unless yanking the rug out from under the feet of the poor & disenfranchised counts as doing something about it.
15
I think the most important take away from this post is that Dan is admitting he was old enough to vote in '84.
16
You know, Albert Einstein was very fond of ice cream...

... and I'M fuckin' brilliant!
17
Dan, you can be very liberal, and yet still be more conservative than some people who blog about you. I've never heard of this person critiquing you, but he seems to want to question the value of forming family structures. I have no particular idea why.
18
"I’ve also detected a level of judgement in his columns that doesn’t reflect the same values that conservatives hold, but that does treat interlocutors with the kind of moral contempt that’s common in conservative circles."

Your political ideology is determined by your manner of discourse, not your political ideology.
19
God, I don't care about your legacy party affiliation. Remember when you tried to frame the case for the occupation in Iraq as being soooo lefty? So yeah I lost you there. Like total war (with Islamo-fascism!) is attractive to any sane person on either side of a fake political spectrum.
20
Evergreen Seminar Alert!
21
This isn't even a discussion worth having.
22
Darn you for caring for your family and other families. Conservative = GOP and family = GOP it would seem. They have convinced themselves that Democrats, Socialists, Greens, Progressives... are anti-family.

Congratulations again and best wishes today.
23
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
24
You didn't vote for Sam Reed? Everyone votes for Sam Reed.
25
The debate is ridiculous. It's just Republicans trying to say "Notwithstanding our views that straight rich white men should rule the world, and notwithstanding the war(s) on drugs/choice/gays/minority-voting/healthcare/education/etc, anyone who wants to marry the person of they love and have a kid or two is actually Republican." I know many, many, many (perhaps the overwhelming majority of the people I know) who want exactly the same.

Sorry, Republicans, not all Democrats want to live in a hippie commune where everyone jointly raises the kids and has orgies or lives in three/four/five/+dog relationships.
26
I voted for Barry Commoner in 1980. Never voted for the obscure protest party guy again.
27
Well, everyone who has a blog is conservative or liberal compared to somebody else, who more than likely also has a blog.

(@1, remember Dan's in the Eastern time zone today, and has been awake for awhile, here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/live
28
P.S. Good morning, Canuck! That Minchin piece Dan linked to yesterday used "bog standard" as well. We may have to add that term to "disingenuous" in the list of overused internet pundit favorites.
29
Hola, gus! I didn't notice that in the Minchin article, I was remembering it primarily from the vomitous British chick lit I like to read at times...I do find British put-downs to be superior to ours, though, perhaps to make up for the teeth..
Now I'm clicking that link of yours, and hoping to see Dan in a Tom Ford suit...
30
Good Morning Canuck and Gus and Kim!
I went over there, read the post, and some of the comments, and I have to say that's some high quality intellectual wankery goin' on over there! When I looked there was a spirited debate as to the correct definition of "radical" complete with people busting out the Latin roots.
I think that as you gain a wider and wider audience this sort of thing is inevitable. People are going to pick apart everything you say and do, either at the dinner table or on their blogs. The folks over on LG&M appear to be fairly Marxist in their point of view, so by contrast you might as well be Margaret Thatcher. But really, reasonable people every where, know that you are not a Republican.
31
Hey Lissa!
Doh, why won't the White House Live Stream work on my phone, gus?
32
Canuck, I think I spotted Dan's head in the middle of the seated audience. When I tuned in the emcee was giving shoutouts to various conference "partners" in the audience - I wonder if Dan and Terry got one!

I believe the people in the background onstage are kids and parents, and in the foreground are a few of the academics invited, who from the sound of it have been doing solid studies on bullying for a decade or more.

I didn't tune in early enough to see the Obamas' opening remarks, the only time the schedule shows them appearing at the conference today, but a fun online White House watcher did, and noted:
Obama seemed totally hung over from the party he hosted last night to watch the Chicago Bulls game, slurring and mispronouncing words and generally looking sleepy. I was a little worried he was going to suddenly keel over.
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/
33
@14 - The canard that "liberals are against/don't care about personal responsibility" is a meme invented by Republican pollsters. Like "liberals always cry victim" it describes the actual behavior of Republicans. Basic put your own weaknesses onto your opponent strategy.
34
Conservative does not equal Republican, especially nowadays.
35
Canuck, I'm so sorry - you have an iPhone I think, which means the White House's flash-based video feed won't work (Apple refuses to engineer the iPhone or iPad to accommodate Flash, the product of Seattle's own Adobe.)

If it's any consolation the conference seems very focused on the academics rather than media leaders, so it's possible Dan may not get a spotlight.
36
Hah, gus! He should've had beer and juice for breakfast, works wonders...and thanks for the visual! At least this issue is getting the attention it deserves, now. And I may have to stop being imaginary BFF with Dan if he doesn't show us what he wore...
37
gus (@35) Oh, had no idea (what with this phone having a naked firefighter calendar app, I just assumed...) You Seattlites, Adobe and coffee, sheesh. All we have here are white cowboy hats... :(
38
How utterly leotarded. Even your criticism of Obama and other Democratic (or liberal) politicians comes from a distinctly liberal viewpoint.
I love the comment about how "Having two dads means x2 the Patriarchy!"

Gaia, save us from your followers.
39
I have actually heard you describe yourself as "deeply conservative." I take that to mean that you're personally conservative, not that you're politically conservative. For example, a person can be personally against abortion while supporting a woman's right to choose. Likewise, a person can have or desire a successful committed relationship and a nuclear family without being a political conservative. Saying that drag queens could make good parents (and should have the right to marry and adopt) is not saying that drag queens could make good Republicans, as the author suggests. I myself am a very conservative/traditional person in many ways, but also have never voted for a Republican.
40
From the comments on the linked blog post:

"I’d argue that the problem with ... Savage’s writings, is ... that the battle to win is one with patriarchy (or other single enemy) and not against a wide array of interconnected conservative values that includes patriarchy broadly defined, but also neoimperialism, structural racism, developmentalist attitudes toward nature, emphasis on property values and white homeowner populism, homophobia, etc., etc., etc."

Right, because a sex advice column is a perfect platform to assault all those things.

Reading the comments there was nearly as trying as reading the comments on some Feministing article about Dan that he linked several months back. I find all that earnest idealism, completely ungrounded in practical suggestions, to be totally blinding.

The summary for me is: "I agree with Dan Savage about the one or two social issues I've seen him cover in his sex column, but he is totally silent on these eight other very abstract things that I care deeply about. Because of this, I see him as an enemy. Because of that, I see him as a Republican. Because of that, I dismiss him. Fie, Dan Savage!"

What a load of horse shit.
41
Anyone who thinks that Savage is a Republican because he favors a stable and loving family really desperately needs to start reading some George Lakoff.

Some starting Lakoff-ian principles:
1. Both conservatives and liberals "value" family, but the former places more emphasize on a hierarchical one the obeys the father, whereas liberals recognize different familial structures and try to nurture children rather than police them. An "ideal" conservative family renders the mother a child vis-a-vis the all powerful husband, whereas an ideal liberal family values "co-parenting," equity, teaching children to be themselves and question things, etc.

2. Contemporary progressives lose, lose, and lose again because they operate within conservative framing of issues--responding both within conservative assumptions and with conservative talking points. This I find to be pervasive and maddeningly frustrating!

3. Conservatives and liberals place higher "value" on different things, with the former prizing purity/hierarchy/loyalty and the latter decenty/fairness/equity, Because of this distinction, these groups often talk past each other because they fail to realilze that they prize different values as "moral." (I would argue that liberal values are a higher order of morality because conservative values by defintion lead to internal policing and the exclusion/repression of those deemed "outside" and thus a threat, to the ingroup. But, that's an aside...)

In sum: If you find yourself ceding the moral high ground to the right, particularly the GOP, you need some time with Lakoff.
42
The stupid conservative claims are transparently simple. Claim all the good values for your own political philosophy, leaving your opponents none. It's just more nonsense from a pyrrhic ideology.
43
I think you doth protest too much. No one is seriously accusing you of being a Republican, and airing your constitutionally-protected private voting record is a debasement that is unbecoming to a public figure of such high esteem as you.

Also: You and Sarah Palin are the same age LOL.
44
@32: Oh gawd, now we have a president with alcohol issues - at least 'W was sober.
45
I hope you take it as a compliment that you are sufficiently independent in your thinking that it confuses people who need to collapse a universe of ideas into a single dimension.

Also, voting is not the highest expression of our values (or at least it shouldn't be.) The life you live is. Voting--particularly in this country--is too often a pragmatic decision among unattractive alternatives.

46
"Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You."
— Dr. Seuss

Dan, I think this describes you perfectly!

Muwah! xoxo
47
How dare you support a nuclear family. Children should be raised in the she-hive away from the polluting influences of evil men. Only conservatives would suggest nuclear families with children going to school are better than communal worshipping of the great mother in ecstatic dance rituals.

Or something. I don't even know. Hyper feminists are insane people.
48
*Sigh*
Too ill to comment extensively; I should be in Madison right now, locking down the Capitol. Fuck this flu.
49
I think I voted for Hubert Humphrey somewhere in time, too.
50
1) No matter how far left on the spectrum you are, to the people on the extreme left fringe, *everyone* to their right looks like the right-wing fringe. (The opposite is true, too.)

In other words, not only do you fail to whine about the thin-privileged patriarchy of rich white men at every turn, you actually call bullshit on that kind of nonsense, which to the extreme-left fringe makes you Phyllis Schlafly with a penis.

Oh and you're a white male, which is basically a million strikes against you.

2) You'd be a Libertarian if you knew anything about economics. :)
51
Dan is a libertine-ian.
52
I think to most of the people on that blog, Ralph Nader is right-wing, and Bernie Sanders is a Nazi. I'm surprised they're writing in English, since language itself is just a tool of the patriarchy, etc.
53
So I feel a little stupid asking this, but what does "pro-single-payer" mean?
54
@50 I'm pretty sure Dan is well versed in Economics. It is, after all, the study of how people behave in order to satisfy their needs. Dan is all about satisfying needs.

55
of course you would have voted for Carter.....
56
55
the troll empathizes, Danny.
we always have regretted not being able to book passage on the Titanic.....
57
55

but don't feel too bad-
shilling for Blobama is actually better than voting for Carter...
58
Carter!
59
So the only successful Presidential candidates
Danny ever voted for were
a Good'ol Boy Southern Bubba who passed DADT
and
the "homosexuality=bestiality/child rape" Farce Advocate?

Really?

Danny, is it SelfLoathing or Stupidy that animates your choices?.....
60
You can't be a liberal if a) you want a family that has parents and kids, b) are willing to state the notion that lots of people want that, regardless of orientation, or c) believe you can actually say anything is good or bad.

Good radical liberals know that parents/kid/"nuclear family" look-alikes are conservative ideas. Also, all ideas/positions are defensible, but some are less radical than others (and so, less cool).

Dan gives advice which obviously means he believes his white, male opinion is better than someone else's. He also has a partner and a kid, which is like waaaay normal conformist.

"Lame!" shout the radical feminist Marxist hipper cooler true lefties, who then pause to mutter, "Wait, lame sounds judgemental and childish... Ok: Conservative!"
61
Nothin' conservative about your agenda.
62
I got as far as the first sentence of the quote-- which managed to use both "patriarchy" and "anti-patriarchal"-- and decided the entire debate would be a complete waste of my time.

There should be a Godwin's Rule analog for this.
63
Being democrat or republican isn't supposed to be about being liberal or conservative, hypothetically. We're supposed to believe that liberals and conservatives exist in both camps. However I've read Dan's columns through that same time period he mentions and I have no idea what the fuck he's talking about Dan being conservative.
64
What is "single-payer"?
65
I just had single-payer explained to me:
It's everyone having the same health insurance and the insurance is run by a single company.
66
@65 A single "company"?
67
Also, to point out something which might not be so obvious, the initial confusion (conservative? Republican?) is a sign of a good thing: by fighting for the right to marry and for equality in all other things for homosexuals, Dan *is* carrying the torch for traditional family values.

That's right. Gay marriage is going to *save* marriage. I think gays should use this as a tactic when conservatives start complaining about the destruction of marriage. Allowing gays to marry will save their sacred institution from philanderers like Newt Gingrich who shit all over it every day.
68
Dan's the MLKJr of the gay movement. I totally called it.
69
Dan's a liberal, but I'll never forgive him for starting the Iraq war. And don't forget that Dan went to the GOP caucus/convention one year.

Me: Reagan, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama
70
I don't think that there's a single politician in the country that is liberal *enough* for Dan. And to be honest, there certainly aren't any real liberals running for presidential office, especially vis a vis Bill Maher's argument on the subject.

Personally I think there has been little to no progress in American politics since about 1970, and they're still fighting the same fights. Why else would "have you ever smoked pot" or "did you fight in Vietnam" still be valid questions for a presidential candidate?
71
65: no, not a "company." "Single payer" refers to a national public health care system--Medicare for all--the govn't act as a "single payer" so that it can negotiate prices down, benefitting everyone...

...except the profits of the health insurance industry, which is, of course, why it must be prevented.

This despite that it is the primary system of every. single. industrialized nation save us--and those countries have better outcomes and lower costs. Even better? No one in those countries EVER goes bankrupt or loses their home because someone in their family couldn't afford surgery, or got cancer and had an insurance company drop them...
72
You had me at pro-science. That is all someone really needs to know.
73
Dan, I bet when you wrapped your lips around the student body president's dick back in 12th grade you were licking up all of that young man's Reagan-loving jizz. Makes you a former Young Republican by default.
74
That blog you linked to is like one huge pseudo-intellectual circle jerk, not that that there's anything wrong with that. Just not what I'm into.
75
72

If Danny WAS pro-science he would accept the medical community's verdict on the best way to prevent STDs.
No....
Your Danny is an ignorant pussy who follows his own theological beliefs in the face of science.

And it kills thousands of homosexuals every year.
76
Dan, I suspect you and I are near in age, since I just missed the 1980 election as well.

I have, on occasion, voted GOP, when the Democratic candidate was a Larouchite (as in Lyndon Larouche). Sometimes, the choices are between a crook (Joe McDade), and crazy (Larouchite).
77
Maybe I missed where this was said (on the lawyersgunsmoneyblog, or here), but the way Dan Savage is radical is that he wants "traditional marriage" but with same-sex participants. That is radical, because then you can’t know who should do what (raise the children/ have the job) from looking at the spouses, and they have to do the work of figuring it out for themselves. The problem with "traditional marriage" is that it pushes people willy-nilly into their approved gender roles (which suck, overall, for both women and men). Gay marriage overturns all that, and says there is no woman's role in marriage/child-rearing that is different from the man's role in marriage/child-rearing. Remember back in the '80s, when people heard that two gays were acting as if they were married, and they would ask... "But which of them is the wife?"
79
@ 44, you think W. was sober while he was president? How charmingly naive. Remember that time he had to go to the hospital because he "choked on a pretzel" while watching a game? It wasn't the pretzel, it was what he washed it down with!

Can't believe so many people are asking what "single-payer" means. I was always too embarrassed to admit I didn't understand what "single-payer" was during the runup to the health care bill, but I figured it out eventually.
80
@78, I don't count?
82
79

yeah- dumbass liberals don't know what the fuck 'single payer' is but they're sure they want the 'rich' to buy it for them....
83
@33 You're right. I should have said the idea that liberals don't tout personal responsibility. It's sad that so many ideas have been taken over by one party or the other. Unfortunately, most of the self-professed 'conservatives' I know are registered republicans who are against pretty much everything I stand for.

84
What the fuck is wrong with the American Left that makes them want to split hairs to the point where they're trying to cast their allies out because they're not ideologically pure enough? I went over and tried to read the drivel on that site and it make me want to just start punching people in the face and never stop. So stupid. So short-sighted.

They wish so hard that they had a little red book that everyone must memorize and agree with, but the complexity of plurality in the Left makes them wail and gnash their teeth.

Please wait...

and remember to be decent to everyone
all of the time.

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