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Even with that change, I'd still say she was the bigger.
I also have a hard time imagining even the most open-minded spouse being okay with the other man/woman sleeping/fucking in the marital bed.
then you are a sociopath
He was a jerk, you were a fool. Who cares whose is bigger? The objective now is damage control for her and counseling for you. The relationship is not going to continue, regardless of who was dumber. But it sounds like you have some major issues and you should take care of that, too.
Scream it from the rafters.
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@17 Apparently, of yourself.
Clearly they're both jerks, but I'd give him a reduction on his jerk score by virtue of being in an extreme situation, so yeah, she's the bigger jerk.
I grew up near Bellevue, NE, which was the headquarters for the Strategic Air Command, and this sort of thing goes on all the time (when they aren't at church, that is)
When I met Mr. Vel-DuRay, he had a tract house in a subdivision down south of Puyallup, full of military and cops. They all slept around with each other. It was like "Peyton Place" with tacky people and ugly clothes.
It sounds like they had a good ride. But it's time to get off.
I forgive your snarky reply in advance.
One can forgive a jerk, but they remain jerks whether you forgive them or not.
That said, I agree that neither are jerks. Both are self-centred scumbags and, frankly, I hope they both die of some loathsome VD they swapped back and forth (and the wife doesn't catch) and the wife is able to retire from the military on the life insurance proceeds.
In order to stop the Peyton Place merry-go-round, she should not call the wife, but should move on with her own life as well as she can. From the fact that she's not whining about being homeless, my guess is that she had some options. (Bars are open at all hours, so maybe she had found the next free-ride before she got around to writing this letter.)
But, Canuck, I think in your scenario, the wife might be better off, and loverboy would be better off, and the two of them might go on to have a nice life together. But I don't see barslut as acting any differently. She still moves in with loverboy, still thinks she can woo him away from his wife, and is still dumped unceremoniously on her ear at the end of the year. Do you really envision the wife supporting barslut in her house once she returns home?
She "knew" he was married, yet she consented to sleep with him anyway? What kind of human being justifies that to themselves and believes it's a-okay?
If' I were single, met a nice, interested guy who was married, I'd say, take care of that issue before you drag me through it. C-ya when you're single.
Don't call the wife. Doing that makes you the biggest jerk possible. It's a deliberate and premeditated form of assholery. It makes you a cunt, if you aren't already just for fucking a married guy in his wife's bed for 9 months.
and just what on Earth leads you to believe this
when you betray and use those closest to you you are a grade A asshole, not a good person
But that requires everyone to act like a fucking grownup, tell the truth, and talk to one another, which apparently is much too difficult for these people.
I have no sympathy for SE (I consider it the secondary's responsibility to make sure the primary is okay with the relationship), but it's the husband that's most at fault if he was cheating AND lying to SE about it being cheating - he managed to be a complete dick to both of them.
I pretty much assume any married guy in a situation like this is cheating. You run into them all the time online - the guys who call themselves poly, claim they have an open marriage, but they can only see you on weekdays, and you can't ever meet at his house or call him at home. Um, yeah. CPOS.
I'm not surprised. The wife never knew, her husband was probably skypeing with her while she was away. Shit like this happens all the time. Since it was a 9 month deployment, it means more than likely if it was an Army spouse the service member was in the reserves, which means that for 3 months prior, he had been preparing for her to leave. Shit was planned from Day 1 and that Tag Chaser turned home wrecker knew. Glad to see her ass got canned. Hopefully he will have his year ruined as well. He deserves it.
As an aside, I remember reading in one of Dan's books a part where his brother Bill describes his open relationship, and how, sometimes, a woman will lose interest when he lets her know his girlfriend is fine with it. It was only appealing when it was thought to be illicit.
Do you judge your own character based only on your lowest moments?
Also, moving in with anyone, ever, a few days after meeting in a bar? Are you shitting me??? No good can come of that. I do not feel bad for this woman getting tossed out on her ass, I mean, where the hell was she living beforehand? Did she just break her lease to shack up with this married jerk, in the home he shares with his wife?
Yes, the guy is also a massive douche, but "Sad Eyes"* is responsible for not recognizing his blatant line of bullshit,
depending on him for a place to live, and helping him cheat on his wife.
*seriously, "Sad Eyes"??? seriously???
I know how this is supposed to work - some lonely and desperate people are trotted on stage, their misdeeds enumerated, and the simian audience dutifully grunts and bellows its disapproval.
I was just trying to switch things up a bit, but never mind. He jerk! She jerk! Seandr mad at jerk!
The question and how it's framed are interesting. Is that really the most or only "useful" point about which she can ask for clarification?
Sure, we've all been lonely from time to time. But how many of us would actively do something we KNOW would destroy the one person we claim to love most in the world without hesitation? To satisfy OUR OWN immediate base needs, which could be met otherwise for a short time. Who treats people like this??? Someone who's not capable of love, that's who.
Decent people with some kind of ethical grounding stop themselves before acting because that's what it means to love another person. They get a dog while the spouse is away, stick close to friends, get a sex toy, etc, out of LOVE for the other person. Furthermore, we're not just talking about a guy who had a drunken one-night indiscretion with "Sad Eyes" (@56, you're awesome), which could almost be forgiven. Bitch immediately moved in for 9 MONTHS taking wifey's place and he was down with the whole thing. Just 24 HOURS after the wife was shipped out to war.
Ladies and gentlemen, now that's what we call a sociopath, and if you can't see that, then you are fatally broken as well.
Maybe they can stop being jerks, but the characters in this story are complete asswipes and there's no reason not to call a spade a spade.
I bet she ended up leaving some of her bits and pieces behind, that the wife later found.
I pretty much agree with Dan. Both of these people are losers, but the guy (barely) gets the edge in jerkiness because of the no warning eviction.
They made lots of mistakes. Both of them were inconsiderate of his wife's feelings. They failed to communicate in any meaningful way. He may have lied about his relationship status and direction. She shouldn't have moved in so early, and he should have given her more warning before kicking her out.
But to me, it sounds like they were both just really bad at finding what they were looking for. They need to learn from their mistakes so they don't hurt anyone else (or themselves) again, not be crucified for them.
@49 and others: If I was in the wife's shoes, I would much rather be told, and deal with the emotional fallout, then to not be told and suddenly wake up and find that I have AIDS. Non-disclosure isn't just immoral, it's potentially lethal. I don't care how much drama it causes; the wife has a right to know.
I see. So we all have the right -- no, the obligation! -- to condemn these people even though none of us is involved in this story. But forgiveness? That's crossing the line.
Hmmm, let me consult some outside sources on that...Well what do you know, it turns you were right. There it is exactly as you said in chapter one of The Angry Mob's Ethical Handbook.
My 20 years in the Navy the phrase "what happens on deployment stays on deployment" was code for don't tell my wife who I'm screwing...
These are the same moralistic assholes who dare to judge gays in the military.
I'd say phuk both of 'em but they've been there and done that.
Video
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Damn Kids...
Yeah, people get lonely and deployments suck. After a day, though? If people can't handle long separations, they really shouldn't marry/get seriously involved with people in the military. I've lived through my share of deployments and don't find anything sympathetic about either of these bottomfeeders. It's tough, but it's not the end of the world; you get time to do all those hobbies and interests your spouse hates, you hang out with friends a lot, you visit the spouse if you can, and you get on with life.
"just been deployed for the first time since they'd been married"
So does that mean she'd been deployed previously while they were dating? Is this a pattern of behaviour for him or something?
No sympathy for anyone but the deployed wife on this one.
Cognitive Dissonance R Us seems to be open for business today.
However, if you consider the wife as well, then he "wins" at being the bigger jerk for what he's done to her. (Assuming they didn't talk this through and she okayed it, which, given his overall level of communication, seems extremely unlikely.)
The wife went to a place where she might well have been shot dead and he had nothing better to do than cheat on her, within DAYS of her leaving, and then move the other woman into their married home and sleep with her in their bed.
And he kept her around until the very day the wife came back! He was going to have sex with his wife in that bed within 24 hours of having sex in it with a would-be home-wrecker. Was he even going to change the sheets?
Honestly, I hope the wife kicks HIM out of the house now--since she's the one in the military, I'm assuming the base housing would be hers? He can get back together with SE, for all I care. They deserve each other.
After all, whenever a woman does something like that, it is the man's fault for not doing X, Y and Z, right? Right?
And he's so traumatized by being left by wifey, instead of worrying about how she's handling being deployed, sleeping in a tent with baby rats scrabbling at night or in a converted metal container, being run ragged (all of which one of my good friends in the Reserves went through recently, so I'm not exaggerating), he's wondering how he'll pull through.
She should have backed off as soon as he laid his sob story on her. What did she expect when dealing with someone reeking of desperation and immaturity. And did his wife not take a laptop with her? They could have been communicating back and forth every night, keeping their relationship active.
Instead, the LW does the stupidest thing possible and falls in love with him. Mind you, he was an idiot and a coward to not have reminded her that this was, after all, a temporary situation. But I guess he feared she might storm off and then, poor baby, he'd be cut off from sex ... uh ... companionship again. So he didn't. But I can see the wife's return schedule being slightly nebulous, though it's no excuse for him. When service personnel are returning to the States, they may be given a window but may not know until the last minute the exact flight details.
She was desperate.
He was desperate.
They're both equal jerks.
And the wife deserves much better than him.
How do you sort through this chaos? Dude's wife hasn't even landed abroad yet and he's already moving his interim fuck toy in? He chucks her-with no fanfare or warning--the day of his wife's return? What a catch.
And, seriously, how entwined a combination of low self-esteem, romantic desperation, poor judgment and gullibility must you have to move in after a few days with a dude you met at a bar who turned his "my wife just left for war" into a fucking pick-up line? What a moron.
Profoundly depressing. The selfish and stupid have all the fun, even while wallowing in their pathetic self-created melodramas. True loneliness, love and compassion eludes them. Pathetic.
Where's the inconsistency?
Dan, seriously, we're the same age, you don't remember that song?
Maddy81 @91.
The PUAs would agree with you, at least.
If it's true, then might the reason be that a lot of people, when wanting to get laid, also want to be lied to, the way that people go to the theatre to enjoy something that they know isn't real? Or because it makes things easier on their consciences as they go and do what they wanted to do anyways?
@91 Yeah, also that. The scumbags/losers/imbeciles I've known have been the ones to spend the least amount of time single.