Blogs Apr 11, 2011 at 7:30 am


Alternative headline: Pit bulls Show Up For Tasty BBQ and Get Stabbed

A few things:
1) Had these dogs been Boxers or Boston Terriers would they have been met w/ such fear? Was this woman, like so many others, influenced by an irresponsible media that instills fear and perpetuates the pit bull as monster theory.
Would she have simply shooed away other dogs?

2) Dogs of any breed should NEVER be free to roam the neighborhood, even when tasty BBQ is in the air

3)Sad that this led to a dog fight/ stabbing. Hope the 2 surviving dogs recover and lead happy lives
not sure if she read Dave's piece.
but those photos? what is it with the smiling pic holding the butter knife? "Lance, I'm ready for my close-up!".
Yeah..I have read it. It is more nonsense that fuels hatred against a misunderstood and villified breed.
fuck that. these dogs wandered into her yard and were aggressive enough to attack. good for her for protecting her child. just bc pit bulls have an "undeserved rep" (which they don't bc they are fucking bred for fighting) doesn't make what she did wrong.
So two dogs came into her yard while she was cooking grilled meat, "walked up to" her daughter, then turned to her when she removed her daughter, at which point her rather large, muscular dog perceived a threat from another dog and/or her owner's fear and became aggressive with them at which point the dogs started fighting. So she tears the two other dogs apart with a bread knife.

You know, maybe those were awful, aggressive dogs, the perceived threat was 100% real, and what she did was totally appropriate. That's ENTIRELY possible. It's also entirely possible given the available information, though, that this lady freaked out because of an irresponsibly media-inflated sense of public fear and created a situation that has traumatized herself and her child, ruined her property, injured her own dog, and killed another that just wanted a hot dog when she could have instead put her child in a safe place and shooed the dogs away. In either case, the mystery owner allowing the dogs to wander free is inexcusable and s/he should be fiscally and criminally responsible.

But you know, if the dogs were a violent threat, as is entirely possible, pretty much no one in the animal community is advocating the idiotic course of action you're attempting to lampoon here, Dan, and I really don't understand what it is about this topic that turns you into exactly the same kind of reactionary media hack that you love to criticize every time there's an ignorant news story about weed or LGBT issues or a traffic tunnel.
The mother in the story considered using her gun but went for a knife instead - A bread knife (I'm guessing that means sharpened edge but not pointed). She then killed one dog and seriously wounded another... with a bread knife.

I think the moral of this story is: Don't fuck with this woman! She means business!
Can someone bring me up to speed? Whose strawman is Dan burning down here? "This woman had a responsibility to look into who owned these dogs and assess how they had been cared for—kept outside? chained? used for fighting?—before defending herself."

What the fuck? Can anybody link to who said you can't defend yourself from a dog?
You can take wolf puppies at 6 weeks, seperate them from the mother and raise them as best you can and they will continue to be an agressive species of animal.

If they dont look you in the eye, then you will definately have problems.

@ 8, what does that have to do with anything?
@kinison- i think if you take any canid from its mother at 6 weeks, you will raise an animal that is ill-socialized at best and psycho at worst. puppies learn while they're with their mother, and there's a reason responsible breeders won't let them go before 10 or maybe 8 weeks.
#7: Dan is continuing his moronic anti-pit bull ranting, but thinks he's being clever by sarcastically turning around the actual arguments people have made (that most dog problems come down to owners) and throwing in a few idiotic remarks no one has ever made, and trying to reiterate his larger, dumber point: that pit bulls are evil and should be eradicated en masse. This, as it ever does, only makes Dan exactly the kind of stupid, credulous hack he rants about over anti-marijuana reporting, and it only undermines his own credibility every time he posts yet another of these ridiculous rants.

Also, what 1, 3 and 5 said.
Every Pit Bull needs a mother and father
I think it would be amazingly fun to watch Dan Savage and Shorty Rossi debate/argue about pit bulls.
They're clowns, floppy eared sweet little clowns being vilified in the press. They provide their owners something that no other breed in the world can supply and thus it's imperative to freedom that they are allowed to be bred and owned by anyone. Because, after all, there are no behaviors or traits that are inherited in dogs of a specific breed, it's all how they are raised. That woman shouldn't have reacted by putting her child on the roof of a car (that's natural prey behavior- all dogs would be made violent by that.) If the dogs had bitten the child a firm enough tug would have separated her daughter from the dog.

I ride my bike to work every day through two separate crack neighborhoods and I see members of the criminal underclass with dogs all the time. I know those poodles they're walking are just as dangerous as the pits.
The woman and her dog definitely came off as more aggressive than the pits.
Dear pet owners (I'm one too, by the by): if your pets wander the streets unsupervised, they might get injured or killed by a car, another non-human animal, a human animal, etc. People have every right (and, frankly, responsibility) to protect themselves and loved ones from potentially-threatening animals that are invading one's home uninvited, be they human or not. Was this an overreaction? Possibly; I wasn't there. But if we need to assign 'fault' (I'm rarely sure what the point of doing so is, but whatever), I'd place it with the owner. If I see a strange dog (one I don't definitively is friendly to me), whatever the breed, coming toward me, my first reaction is to start analyzing defense and escape options. If they fight with me, my family, or my pet, I'm going to put one of those options into practice, again irrespective of the breed. This isn't really about the poor maligned pit bull, it's about an owner that's setting potentially-dangerous animals loose in urban settings. Don't let your fucking pets wander if you're not willing to accept the dangers that this poses to them, and don't have pets at all if their deaths will devastate you, because they will almost certainly die before you.
So I don't like dogs. I don't know much about them, and I don't care to learn. I have lots of other things in life I would actually like to learn about, but with a couple of jobs and a couple of kids, that's not really an option these days.

Add to that the reality that if any animal threatens me or my kids I'm going to react. Perhaps overreact. Are you suggesting, Dan, that I need to learn all about dog behavior and breeds, so that I can know which ones I should truly be afraid of and how to most effectively intervene? And if I haven't done so, and I injure a dog after it threatens me, it's my fault?

That's ridiculous.

I think Dan was being ironic.
Sure, pit bull crowd. Sure, this mother was just another unfortunate victim of an irresponsible media plot. Keep whistling past the graveyard...
I hope Miss Georgia is ok. And fuck those pit bulls and their fucking irresponsible owner(s).

A dog that won't look you in the eye is submissive and a better choice for a pet.

More proof that YOU are a hack. The woman hadn't even started BBQing. The dogs weren't there for a snack, unless the KID was the snack.
I can't believe the apologists are at it here. What did you want this woman to do? Maybe her dog was the aggressive one. So what? Dogs get aggressive when challenged in their own territory. These other dogs didn't respect that, which is aggression. What would you have done in her situation? Stabbed your own dog because you regarded it as the aggressive one? Put a hose on them? Let them "work it out" in your living room? Please.
I'd have done the same thing as this woman. She reacted in the moment in defense of her family. She didn't have time to go looking for the neglectful owner who let the pit bulls roam free in a neighborhood of kids.
#14 you wrote: "If the dogs had bitten the child a firm enough tug would have separated her daughter from the dog." a) It is unreasonable to expect someone to wait to see if her child gets bitten and, b) have you ever successfully removed a pit bull from an aggressive situation with a 'firm enough tug'? They are strong, their jaws are like bear traps and they are not easily convinced to stop what they are doing by a firm tug.
The question becomes one of real vs percieved threat: I would take all necessary measures to protect my family (hubby, 9# Italian Greyhound, 2 pit bulls and a chocolate lab) too...BUT there is a VERY REAL possibility that this woman overreacted due to media-fueled hysteria around pit bulls.
At whomever deemed me a hack...I am pretty sure we don't have enough info to determine if she had begun grilling or not
Overreacted? The fucking dogs were in her house attacking her dog! What the hell would you consider to be a "real" threat?
I keep an oyster shucking knife in my backpack for two things, shucking oysters and stabbing the mercilless fuck out of any pitbull that would attack me. So far I have eaten lots of oysters and not stabbed any of those floppy eared fucks, but soon enough I tell you. Soon enough.
@ 26, from the story:

Chanda Davis said that she was she was in the backyard of her home on North Danzler Road in Duncan getting ready to use her grill at about 7:30 p.m. Sunday.

That highlighted text can't be interpreted to mean that she had burgers 'n' brats sizzling away.
Two Pit Bulls, One Snack.
Excerpt from the follow-up article

But Nelson did not blame Sunday’s attack on the pit bull breed.

Nelson said, “Dogs that are brought up to be aggressive will be aggressive. And because of the pit bull by nature, the aggression is going to be a little more.”

“You still can’t pin this on the breed,” he said
@29...THE PITBULLS WALKING UP BEHIND HER sounds to me like they were not menacing...It doesn't say they charged her...snarled, etc. They ABSOLUTELY 100% should NOT have been roaming freely but to assume they were a threat is absurd.
I believe 100% the dog fight was real and scary. ANY dog would defend it's territory as I am sure the bulldog did...I am sure the ensuing fight was scary, but I still believe this woman likely overreacted
I don't understand the apologists here. 2 pitbulls roaming freely around the neighborhood entered this woman's back yard and approached her daughter. Any mother in the world worth her salt would have removed the child from the situation as she did. Around that time, her dog came out of the house and likely growled at the 2 approaching dogs. Dogs, not typically understanding words and phrases like "Hey, let's talk this out. We can resolve this without violence" instantly strike an aggressive pose and eventually begin to fight. Into the woman's damn house.

I gotta tell you, I would have stabbed the dogs too. Without any remorse whatsoever.

Right on, #34.
Would this even be a story if they weren't "pit bulls"? I doubt it. But it serves Dan's pre-approved narrative, so here it is. Sort of makes it hard to take him very seriously.
I'm a pit bull advocate and I support what the mom did. She felt threatened, she had a kid to watch out for, two big, strong, strange dogs enter her space and get in a scrap with her own dog. Maybe she overreacted, but defending herself and her kid from a perceived threat is, IMO, completely justified.

This story reinforces the "no bad dogs, just bad owners" mantra, contrary to what Dan is trying to coyly insinuate. Why were the two pits wandering around on their own? Any responsible pet owner, especially an owner of a maligned breed--pits, rotties, GSDs--has an extra responsibility to make their dogs safe, good canine citizens. The owner of those pits should be fined at the very least.

Any dog that reacts to being growled at by ATTACKING the growling dog is a violent animal that should be put down. Please post your address and photos of your dogs so we all know to stay the fuck away from your animals and your apologist ass.


About ten years ago I volunteered for COLA (Citizens for Off-leash Areas) here in Seattle. Someone on the board had compiled some interesting statistics from Animal Control about dog attacks at local off-leash parks. Though perhaps out-of -date now one fact the piqued my interest was that while it was true most dog attacks on people were NOT pit breeds, the highest percentage of serious injuries and nearly all of dog fatalities (and the highest percentage of don-on-dog aggression) were inflicted by pit breeds.

While poor media portrayal certainly hasn't helped the breed. Neither has naivety on behalf of Pit owners.

The breed is very powerful pound for pound and bred to be more naturally dog aggressive. Those are facts. Herding dog might bite humans more often, Pits, when the DO bite don't let go.

While ALL dogs will bite or attack humans or other dogs in certain circumstances the important difference is, for instance, where a border collie might leave a scar— a pit can easily maim or kill.

Think of like the difference between a BB gun and a shotgun. And I think it's reasonable to be more cautious and apply stricter controls around a shotgun.

I'm a pit bull advocate but I don't think the woman's actions were unjustified. Strange dogs, kid right there, dog fight right in front of you. Overreaction, maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that she felt threatened by two large, muscular dogs and acted in a situation where she felt self-defense was necessary, which I think is pretty justifiable.

The thing is, this story reinforces the whole "no bad dogs, just bad owners" thing. Why weren't those dogs tied up? Where was their owner? Any owner of a maligned breed has an extra responsibility to make sure their dog is safe and a good canine citizen. There's nothing intrinsically evil or violent about pit bulls, but there is something rotten in any pit bull owner who's too lazy or stupid to prevent harm from coming to somebody or their own dogs.
The woman 100% did the right thing. Doesn't matter if the strange animals were pit bulls, raccoons, rattlesnakes, whatever. You have a right to protect yourself, kids, animals, and property from harm, rabies, or other injuries.

The only "bad guy" in the story is whoever owns those pits and let them wander around.
@6: Once again, Urgutha, you get straight to the most salient point of the story. I wanna be as bad ass a mother as she is.
Your breedphobia is showing, Dan. Tell you what. I want all cocker spaniels banned. I still have a scar from when I was viciously attacked by one as a kid. Those dogs are evil and should immediately be banned.
@1 - Boston Terriers? really? They're 10lbs and have 2 inch jaws, dainty half inch diameter legs. I suppose if you locked one in a box with a baby or a comatose adult/child, the Boston would eventually kill the human. I'm not particularly scared of your Italian Greyhound either; sure its bite would hurt, but a child over 3-4 could fight it off before the animal killed her.

They were loose and she felt threatened. She has a right to defend herself and her child.

The owner IS ultimately at fault (the dogs were loose) but so what?

If you care about your dog control it.

No one should have to deal with your stupid dog unless they want to.
Hawke. Dan never mentions banning any breed in this post.

And again the quantifiable difference in jaw strength between a Boston terrier or a spaniel and a pit bull is obvious.

It's like incredulously wondering why people are more fearful of great white shark biting them rather than a dog fish. I mean come the fuck on.

Yes. Properly trained pits are not that much of problem in normal circumstances. But ALL dogs will bite in "certain" circumstances— and pits cause serious harm when they DO bite.

The issue here is an unknown powerful animal intruding into somebodies property that posed a perceived threat.

It's debatable how rational Dan's pit-phobia may or may not be (and his perhaps axe-grindy motives for posting this article).

However, this woman's fears were not irrational. And her actions are thoroughly ethically sound given the circumstances known.

clearly Davis' rough handling of the child triggered the wiggle butts to attack.
Shorter Julie Russell: "But MY pit-bull would never do that. Mine's special."
Just to be clear, I'm not an apologist for vicious dogs, the problem I have here is not with the woman's actions but with Dan's reporting. He writes:

"The pit bulls were menacing her child, it's true"

But that's not what the story says. It says that the dogs were "walking up behind" the child.

And Dan writes:

"and they did attack her dog"

But the article says exactly the opposite: her dog "began to attack the pit bulls."

That's purposely inaccurate and sensationalist reporting, exactly the same as the reporting Dan so often objects to when it's about marijuana. And he compounds it with a lot of sarcasm designed to promote his anti-pit bull agenda.

Now, I would have been worried if two large, powerful dogs I didn't know wandered into my garden and approached my child too. I'd have removed my child from their reach too. And I'd have protected my dog as well if a fight ensued.

Of course, the irony is that what Dan so sarcastically wrote about problem owners is absolutely accurate: the dog's behaviour is the owner's responsibility. But in his single-minded desire to promote breed bans (a subject he knows nothing about), he fails to see the obvious: that actually holding owners accountable for their animals' behaviour is the single best way to prevent injuries to humans and other animals, and that breed bans do nothing to prevent dog attacks. Seriously Dan, drop this bullshit. It just makes you look stupid.
@44 Boston Terriers were originally bred for Bear Baiting and fighting

I think Dan just enjoys fucking with you.

But we are all in agreement that this woman is a badass, right? The one-armed child toss? The "screw the gun, I'm using a knife" decision? I'm going to assume she threw in a backflip there at some point, too.

@ 49...I would NEVER allow my pit bulls OR my Italian Greyhound OR my Chocolate Lab to roam NO My dogs would not wander into a random yard.
I don't know if they would fight (it is possible) but I would never have them in a situation where it could happen.

I don't think that makes me or my dogs special
Blip & Dingo, thanks for bringing some sanity in:) Good to know there are rational people reading this!
@54: Just keep your special little jewels confined or controlled at all times and no moms with bread knives will ever have cause to menace them.
Wait? What? Who wants to stab my boobs?
@51 - Perhaps Boston Terriers are partly descended from bear baiting dogs*, but for the past 500+ years, they've been bred to be yappy lap dogs. Look at portraits from the Renaissance onwards.

Pit bulls up until today are bred to kill other dogs and people, that is their purpose. It's nice that you and some others are able to tame a few, but the majority are raised to be a menace to humans and other pets. The rest of us have the right to live without that obvious danger in our neighborhoods.

*more likely bred from rat and weasel chasers.
@57: Pit bulls are no longer used as guard dogs because they're not aggressive ENOUGH. Problem, officer.
The bulldog probably thought it needed to protect the child. So while it may have initiated the actual dog fight, it was responding to two strange, frightening dogs approaching a child and pack member on its own territory. If they'd been wagging their tails or displaying submission gestures none of this might have happened.

While's it's very possible that woman overreacted, I know that if a strange dog came into my yard and attacked my dog they'd be lucky if I only stabbed them with a bread knife. And while there are irresponsible dog owners of every breed, it's a fact that there are significant differences between different breeds, and it's a fact that there are a LOT of fucking irresponsible pit bull owners, who think having an aggressive, poorly socialized dog makes them a bigger person instead of revealing them as an ignorant shit, and hence a lot more poorly socialized, aggressive pit bulls, and it's a fact that pits are powerful, potentially very dangerous dogs, so her reaction was not an irrational one. It's a self-perpetuating reputation, unfortunately.

Poorly socialized dogs are victims of their situation just as poorly socialized humans are victims of their situation. But unfortunately, once they're past a certain age, it's pretty much impossible to ever properly socialize them. The best you can do is give them a good home and keep them away from strangers. And in some cases, it's just not worth it. That's true for dogs, too.
Pretending not to understand a "blame the owner, not the breed" argument sure is a good way to make a point, Dan!
Missed this:

Standing near the door, Davis said, "Right when I got here, they literally were on me. My English bulldog happened just to be walking to the door and she jumped in front of me."

Davis said at that point, the 7-year-old bulldog, Miss Georgia, began to attack the pit bulls. Davis said the dog fight moved from the patio into her dining room.

So they came after her, her dog interposed herself, and then the fight progressed into her house. And unless she got lucky and nailed the carotid artery on the first try, she had to stab them numerous times. Socialized dogs would flee. I don't think she overreacted at all.

Seems like the fine for irresponsible dog ownership should be a lot higher than $900.
@57 Google "fighting dogs" 38 breeds, 4 now extinct, Boston Terrier & Boxer on the list.
Yes, I'm sure your Boston Terrier is a fierce monster.

Are you seriously arguing that there's not a significant difference between two pit bulls invading your home and two Boston Terriers? They typically weigh 10-25 lbs., less than half what a pit weighs. She wouldn't have needed a bread knife, she could have picked them up and drop-kicked them into the street.
I love you Dan, but as an owner of an American Bulldog (looks exactly like a pit, about twice the size) I can tell you that her English bulldog is just as fierce, has just as strong of a jaw. Dogs are faster than people. If the dogs were ATTACKING her child, this woman would NEVER have made it in time before they attacked. And, if the dog wanted to attack her dog, her dog would NOT HAVE ATTACKED FIRST. But, no matter what, if any dog entered my yard, my dog would attack. And, being that I love her more than anyone else's fucking dogs, I would stab the dogs that she attacked, if I had to, if they fought back. My dog would never be walking the streets alone, would never escape, because I am a good dog owner. I was attacked by a fucking pet poodle as a child, was hospitalized. I am sick of people picking on APBTs for social stigma. All dogs attack. No dogs should be walking around unsupervised. This is a problem with the owner not supervising his/her animals, they walked into the yard, her dog started a fight with them, they fought back, they got stabbed. Dan, love you, but your point has missed the mark, just read the comments above.
That lady needs a fence.
Enough already Dan! I've been a stranger reader for nearly 20 years, endured a slew of poorly written yellow journalism, but this is the last I'll ever read! You just can't stop beating this dead horse can you. What exactly do hope to accomplish with this continual anti-pit smear campaign? I tolerated the first dozen or so such articles, but now it's just sad. Stop the fear-mongering. This is the sort of behaviour I expect more from fox news, then the Stranger

Congratulations on losing a loyal reader. Don't bother replying to this post I won't see it or anything from the stranger ever again.
I think that woman should be charged with cruelty to animals. As some one above pointed out the dogs would have killed her child if they wanted to. When she opened the door the pits probably thought they were being invited in. It’s her fault her dog was attacked in her own house. Breed bans are clearly foolish as only positive traits can be inherited. Pit bulls are just floppy eared clowns, no different from any other dog, they can be shooed away like a fly. I suspect if she was getting ready to barbeque she had been drinking, maybe that’s why her evaluation that the dogs were a threat to her child was so obviously wrong. Clearly, from reading the article we can see that she was an overreacting lunatic- who else would attack floppy eared clowns, clowning around in her dining room? If every pit bull were banned in a city there would still be pit bull attacks- its obvious, breed bans don’t work. See, it's the people who are bad, and even if all the pit bulls were gone there would still be bad people so the pit bulls would still attack. Its logical.
as a mother of small children, I would have done the exact same thing. good for her.
Out of all the fucking responses in this thread, not one person has commented upon the trauma inflicted upon the toddler by: 1) being threatened by two dogs; 2) having her own dog get mauled in front of her; 3) seeing her mother slice and dice two pit bulls.

I call 66 leotarded fails up to this point...
Dan, how is it you missed this story? I mean, it has pit bulls in it!…
@69: Did you have a point other than mentioning something pretty damn obvious?
@66: Flounce!
Late one night several years ago, I heard a rapping at the door. Thinking it was my mother and sisters returning, I opened the door, only to be nearly bowled over by a large and imposing Doberman. The cats immediately expanded to twice their normal sizes, I figuratively shat brix, and the Doberman bounced excitedly into my living room.
Did I freak out at the sudden appearance of a large, potentially dangerous dog? No; I kept my cool as best I could and carefully pushed the dog towards the door until he got the hint. I didn't go for a knife or throw the cats onto a bookshelf. I simply put my shoulder to the hound (gently) and kept my appendages away from the jaws in case he got bitey.
It turned out it was Remus, our new neighbors' puppy. Keeping such a big dog confined to a yard was still a bit of a learning process to them, but they got the hang of it.
There's at least one valuable lesson here for pit bull owners: if your dog is approached aggressively by another dog, watch out. I don't care how sweet your dog is - in that situation, all of that dog-fighting instinct will kick in. Fighting other dogs is what it was bred to do, and breeding for traits works.

Any pitbull owner who is in denial about that is one of those bad owners people talk so much about.
@ 74, only a small percentage of pitbulls specifically bred from proven fighters and raised by fighting organizations will fight, even when starved and goaded by their owners and outright attacked by another dog. It's why so many of them are killed by these owners and why fighting organizations have to breed so many.

In other words, you're full of crap, and the idea of you being the arbiter of what makes a good pitbull owner is laughable.
I'm glad someone pointed out that this was sarcasm on Dan's part, because I didn't know at first. That woman is a badass and I hope she is around if any of my loved ones are attacked by a mean dog. I think it's interesting that she contemplated shooting them, but realized the knife was a better method.
this news story is bass-ackwards.
78 stated: "As some one above pointed out the dogs would have killed her child if they wanted to. "

So are you saying that since they didn't she shouldn't kill them? You're so effin wrong on this I can't even get started with you if you would make the above statement.
I can't believe how easily Dan gets the frothing Slog masses to fight with each other. Actually I kind of can because every one knows that Seattlites have an opinion on all topics regardless of actual knowledge/experience. Where is is Dan anyway? Must be sitting under his troll bridge. At least the rest of the Stranger staff will respond when challenged and not simply sit back and take stock of all the attention they have garnered.
I just hope the bulldog is okay. The story said the injuries were extensive, and that dog did exactly what a good dog does: protected her pack and her territory from intruders.
Damn, don't fuck with Momma Davis. Tough cookie. A bread knife no less.
@73 I had something similar happen to me! Only, it was my hippie-ass, 3-dogs-and-two-heads-full-of-dredlocks-in-a-one-bedroom-apartment neighbors' pit who came a'wanderin through my apartment door, likely lured in by the delicious, delicious smells of fresh marijuana cooking in my pipe. She snuck up like a snake and scared the shit out of me. Not because of the breed, since I'm so dog-tarded that I didn't know what her breed was. But because my cat is not tall enough to put his nose in my ass, and the was startling.

But I must also say, @78, I quite agree. MikeB is a freakin' clown. Always wait to make absolutely sure you're in danger before you attempt to protect yourself, right, Mike?
@73 Yeah but if the Dobberman was mauling your cat would you have calmly shooed the dog away?
@83: Did my cats attack the Doberman?
@84 Sure. The dog came in and the cat acted aggressively and the dog starting chewing her up. You just let the uninvited dog kill your cat and then politely shoe him out b/c the cat should've known better?
@85: So this woman is right to have stabbed somebody else's dogs because HER dog wasn't well-trained enough not to pick a fight, eh?
If this had happened anywhere else, everyone would be bawling the woman out for being a dog-murderer and for not training her bulldog properly.
@86 So then if your cat had reacted aggressively towards this uninvited dog in your house and the dog started mauling your cat you WOULD let the dog continue killing your cat and then politely shoe the dog out b/c you'd consider it to be your cat's fault. Which is cool I guess.

Apparently we just have different views about pets. If a pit bull came onto my property and started mauling my cat I would stab that dog right in the eye and not feel a bit of remorse regardless of what my cat (or dog) did b/c it's her territory not the pit bull's. It would suck to have to do it but the owners of the dog would have no one to blame but themselves.

"So this woman is right to have stabbed somebody else's dogs because HER dog wasn't well-trained enough not to pick a fight, eh?"

Yep, absolutely. And this only happened b/c the owners of the pit bulls didn't train THEIR dogs well enough to not roam around the neighborhood going on to other people's property. You don't want you dog stabbed to death with a butter knife? Train them to stay on your property.

"If this had happened anywhere else, everyone would be bawling the woman out for being a dog-murderer and for not training her bulldog properly."

Nope. If a strange, uninvited animal showed up on anyone's property and started fighting with the property owner's animal for whatever reason, regardless of who instigated it, then almost everyone would support the property owner's right to defend her animal by killing the uninvited animals. She didn't just THINK they were a threat and kill them they were actually killing her dog in her house in front of her kid.

As someone who has worked in canine behavior most of my life: While I enjoy and respect Dan's views on sex, I could not give a shit what Dan thinks about pitbulls or breed specific legislation. Neither do I think his views on the subject are well-researched or "right" (read: agreeing with my conclusions) in general. It's just his opinion, though it's a shame other uninformed people may try to use it as some sort of valid basis for examining the issues around pits and BSL.
@87: Let's think about it the other way, then. Suppose this woman had owned a pit bull, and someone else's dog, who happened to wander into her yard, was attacked by it. Would this woman have been justified in stabbing the hapless pooch in order to stop it from hurting her aggressive dog?
(And if my cat had started a fight with Remus and been in danger, I would have separated them with my bare hands. If you know an animal's weak points, you can subdue it without hurting it quite easily.
@90 If her pit bull was in mortal danger from the invading dogs then once again, yes, absolutely b/c the other pooch would only be hapless in as much as their owners engaged in the irresponsible (and in this case illegal) practice of letting their dogs wander around the neighborhood.

"I would have separated them with my bare hands....... you can subdue it without hurting it quite easily"

Uhm, yeah, right. Attacking pit bulls can be easily subdued with your bare hands. If only this person had known your bare handed subduing technique then he/she wouldn't be in this situation.…

So what, pray tell, is your technique for subduing an attacking pit bull?
@89 Just to clarify; if ANY animal comes onto your property and starts killing your pet then I (and I bet most people) would feel it was justified to defend your pet by whatever means necessary; be it a pit bull, bull dog, brown bear, mountain lion, etc. If a pack of gangsta-ass pugs comes onto your property and start killing your doberman then you would have a right to stab the pugs if that was the only feasible way to stop them, although that scenario is extremely unlikely which is why a pug is good dog choice; it pretty much can't fuck shit up even if it really wanted to.
@90: Thumbs in the throat, just beneath the jaws. You can keep the bitey bits clear of you while throttling the dog just enough to make him back up (or alternatively to choke it into unconsciousness), and you can also use your knees to keep the pooch from getting good footing. It's all about knowing the weak points. In order to counter the initial leap, you bring your knee up into the dog's chest and follow through with a punch to the throat or between the eyes as he comes at you.
But you're saying that it's perfectly acceptable to kill an escaped dog because you can't stop your dog from attacking everything that comes within its range? If I were to knock on the wrong door by mistake, and be attacked by a paranoid resident of the house, if another resident pulled a knife on me to protect his housemate, both of them would go to jail and I'd be in the clear. Why is everyone defending this woman, who clearly doesn't know how to handle animals, and probably shouldn't own a dog?
@91: But HER dog attacked the wandering pits! Are you touched in the head?
@92 Yes I'm sure it's as easy as putting your thumbs under the throat of an attacking pit bull. Of course in her situation there was two pit bulls so I guess she should just grab her extra set of thumbs? Or here's an idea, her daughter could tame the other dog. There you go, that's a plan.

Considering that a pit can rip the flesh off of your arm in .5 seconds I don't think I'm going to risk that. Like I said before, if you don't want your dog stabbed to death then don't let them walk around the neighborhood unsupervised.

"But HER dog attacked the wandering pits!"

On HER property and only after they went after her daughter first and then turned on her. From the article:
"when two pit bulls suddenly appeared on her patio and started after her 2-year-old daughter"
"Then, as the pit bulls then turned on her, Davis’ 7-year-old English bulldog, Miss Georgia, jumped in front of her and started to fight off the pit bulls."

See? Her dog was FIGHTING OFF the pit bulls. It says so right there. It also says it in the article. Miss Georgia did exactly what a dog is supposed to do, protect her pack. It's curious that you haven't once mentioned the responsibility of the pit owners in this. Especially considering it was straight up illegal for them to let the dogs wander the neighborhood.
@94: There's nothing to suggest that the dogs were aggressive, rather than simply curious. HER dog attacked another animal. You know what they call a dog that attacks anything unknown that steps onto its lawn? They call it a vicious danger to the community, and require that it be properly restrained.
And if you're being attacked by two dogs, you put your back to a wall and punch and kick as they come towards you. Aim for the tip of the nose, the base of the throat, and between the eyes. If you can catch one by the base of the jaw and the other one is momentarily incapacitated, feel free to bash its head against the wall to dizzy it up. Of course, if you're being attacked by two dogs, it's best to have a weapon, since you can really only grapple with one at a time. Remember that I was talking about a hypothetical raised by you, not about this situation.
Speaking as someone who was attacked by a dog as a child and still has a scar as a result, Dan is a tremendous idiot when it comes to this subject.
I thought the problem with pit bulls isn't that they're nastier than other breeds, but just a hell of a lot stronger with lock-jaw abilities. So when things turn ugly, a human has a harder time managing the situation, and often actually fails to do so, hence all the news coverage. Not true?
@97: Absolutely true. Pit bulls aren't inherently more aggressive than other breeds; they've just got tougher jaws than most.
Now chihuahuas are pretty often aggressive. I don't think they'd be so widely tolerated if they were too big to punt.
@98, totally! Never met a nice chihuahua. Have met lots of sweet pit bulls.
@98: Dogs aren't people. And even with people excessive force charges rarely stick when that person has entered your domicile.
I hear that STD (not STI, you fucking douchetard) carrying gay guys fuck each other with 70% more reckless abandon than straight people. Maybe all cities should pass ordinances banning homos...?

Of course, this may or may not be any more or less anecdotal than your tired, half-witted, crazy killer dog bullshit. But who cares about the facts? Well, if The Stranger ever tires of you, maybe Fox News or Nancy Grace will take you in. You bitchtard.
While doing a lease with a prospective tenant, her seemingly docile pit bull jumped me from behind. Paws on my shoulders and jaws wrapped around my biceps. She yanked it off me in seconds but still was left with huge bite marks that required a trip to the ER and a tetanus shot.

Sorry...not gonna trust a pit bull again. Certainly not going to allow one around my kids. Once bitten, twice shy don't ya' know.

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