I must be stupid, because I don't understand this man's problem with light rail. Wouldn't it be a positive thing to make it easy for customers to visit your business? Or is it that he just wants SUV and Mercedes drivers to patronize his mall and not the mass transit riffraff?
I get the impression Freeman owns not just B-Square Mall, but a lot of the parking lots & garages in the vicinity (commentors, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this). If true, then obviously he has a vested interest in keeping Bellevue car-centric, since a mass-transit line would negatively impact his income from those particular properties.
In addition, while LR would make it relatively easier for people to get INTO Bellevue without having to drive (and thus reduce their need to park in Mr. Freeman's garages & lots), the opposite is also true: people from Bellevue & the surrounding suburbs would have a much easier time getting OUT of town & into Seattle, which, frankly, has a lot more to offer in the way of amenities, as anyone who's ever been to downtown Bellevue can easily attest.
Freeman apparently thinks that public transit is only for people who aren't the kind of people who shop at Bellevue Square. And maybe that you can't carry back as much stuff you may buy if you're taking the train or bus. Better to fill up a Suburban with crap and drag it back to your house.
Ugh, this fucking guy. Those express lanes were **designed** to carry light rail. Can't he go fuck with Eastern WA where he belongs? Oh wait, his grandfather probably didn't snatch up any land over there during Japanese internment.
Most of the I-90 floating bridge and highway was built with federal funds, not state highway funds constrained by the State Constitution. Federal funds do allow highways to be used by rail transit.
From my perspective, those center lanes were funded by the federal money only -- indeed the project never would've happened but for the commitment to ultimately convert the center roadway to exclusive transit use. If Kemper et al didn't like that promise, then why didn't they sue in 1976 when the commitment was made?
What Kemper et al are arguing is that the state contribution amounts to a Poison Pill -- no matter how small the amount of state funds that can be imputed to the center roadway, the entire facility is forever restricted to motor vehicles only.
the bizarre part is that light rail over I-90 and SR-520 would increase his mall traffic from the rich neighborhoods on Mercer Island and other nearby wealthy neighborhoods - you'd think he understood that, but my guess is he's just old and cranky.
It doesn't matter. For decades there's not a decent sized law firm in town that hasn't taken his money to carry his water on one silly thing or another.
He'll figure out a way to sue on some new basis if the itch gets too bad again, and we'll take him down then, too.
Think of him as a not particularly helpful pest, just part of the ecosystem.
Why don't we leave the engineering to the engineers? If running heavy vehicles across the bridge were such a risk to human safety, wouldn't freight already be banned from crossing the bridge? As far as I know, there is no limit to the number of semi-trucks allowed on the bridge at one time, and I can't imagine a train is much heavier than a few trailers filled with cargo.
@6, the 98% figure (actually 97%, misquoted in news reports) is calculated with 2 trains passing at full vehicle capacity during a 1-year storm. That is 97% of the allowed capacity under law, and not the structural capacity, which is much higher. The allowed capacity is at a point that does not reduce the lifespan of the bridge. An average "worst storm of the year" at rush hour and two trains passing is a non-event.
Sound Transit policy will be to shut down trains on the bridge for anything other than a 1-year storm. So once or twice a year on a bad year service might be interrupted. Note that in really bad weather 520 has been closed to car traffic, so this is not unusual for a floating bridge on Lake Washington.
And Kemper Freeman should know this given how much he claims to care about this issue. He's either litigating out of pure ignorance or, more likely, lying. His real likely motives involve ugly classism (and maybe racism, given his family background.)
Freeman's motiviation is money, pure and simple. Transit costs money, which he will pay in taxes.
I gotta say, though, even though it's out of style, that's a real nice looking suit he's got on there. And tie. I'll bet he spends $20,000 a year at Brooks Brothers.
@18, he's already paying the taxes, so fighting rail on I-90 doesn't change that. As for the "class" thing, go back and find what he said about the people who patronize Southcenter....
Kemper dear, you're old. You'll be dead by the time the train starts running, and your heirs will probably sell off all of your legacy anyway. I certainly would.
With all apologies to those who love it, or call it home, Bellevue is just West Omaha with better stores. I'm certain there are some charming waterfront lots, and surely some gracious homes with lovely people, but the business district is really quite banal.
Catalina, King County records suggest that Kemper and his wife Betty have no lawn at all, living as they do in unit 3904 of the tower he built to house the Westin Bellevue.
The owner of the condo above the Freemans is Donald Kline, president of Murray Franklyn, the developer that flattened the lot the Bus Stop and Cha Cha used to call home.
Mr. Kline and his wife rent out their condo, and maintain a fancy listing website that gives some sense of Mr. Freeman's neighborhood in the sky... http://4004onelincolntower.com/
Okay, car-centric, east-side-people general insanity aside, this is a valid point:
"I don’t see how I or others would survive the construction," [Freeman] said.
I grew up in a place that built a 16 mile East/West light rail system that cut from downtown to the U (of Utah). For most of this, I worked downtown and lived near the U. The construction sucked balls. It ruined crosswalks, cut fiber lines, made a bunch of left-turn messes, and generally shat on my car-life on a day to day basis for about 18 months.
Then it was finished and it opened and it was fucking amazing. It's over doubled in size over the last decade and is about to enter the triple/quadruple numbers as they keep steadily expanding the lines. It's literally the only thing I envy about my home town.
So yeah, the construction totally sucks, but if you do it right, the pay-off is much greater than trying to build everything to accommodate cars -- which has seen limited success even in Bellevue. Try to get a quick lunch at Nibbana downtown at 12:30PM M-F and you'll probably end up paying $12 to park. Lame.
" Wouldn't it be a positive thing to make it easy for customers to visit your business"
Ever see the people in Westlake and Southcenter? Not exactly Bellevue Square material. I respectfully disagree with Kemper in light rail, however he should force the Bellevue station in install turnstiles to catch scofflaws, the kinds who make Westlake so unbearable.
"I don’t see how I or others would survive the construction," he said.
Hey Kemper, why don't you study Denver? We built light rail through our downtown - right through the fucking heart of downtown, at surface - in the early 90s. I think some smaller businesses in the poor part finally had to call it a day, but not anyone with deep pockets. You'll live.
30, So why do Southcenter and Bellevue Square have the same anchor stores? Is there something more "upscale" about the Bel Square Penney's? A certain something about the Bellevue Macy's? (We all know that Nordstrom is consistently constipated wherever it is, so that can't be it.)
For what it's worth, the only place I've ever had anything stolen from me was Bellevue Square. It's a dreadful place.
@ 30 "Ever see the people in Westlake and Southcenter? Not exactly Bellevue Square material."
OK. So buses already regularly travel from the Downtown Bus Tunnel outside Westlake Center to the Bellevue Transit Center just blocks away from Bellevue Square.
So what's stopping the purported riffraff that you perceive to inundate Bellevue Square now?
Look at the cars parked in Bellevue Square and the cars parked in Southcenter. Some of the stores may be the same; the people are not, and Freeman knows which people are his base. The latter know how to freeze out any of the outlanders who venture into Bellevue Square.
@29 :Try telling that to someone whose store goes out of business during construction.
@18: The suit is nice, but that necktie is horrible. And WTF is up with his hair? He looks like a refugee from a Brilcream ad.
Here's the thing of it, Sarah68: downtown Bellevue is an urban location now. The cat's out of the bag. The Bellevue Square customer base that thinks Southcenter is too common or dangerous, or who buy into the marketing hype will eventually perceive that there are too many of "those people" at Bellevue Square as well. If there is a violent incident - a shooting or assault in the parking garage - it will hit Bellevue Square much worse than it did Southcenter. Like many downtowns in the 1960's, people may decide it's just not worth the traffic hassles to risk shopping there.
Kemper thinks it's still 1968, and in many ways it still is at Bellevue Square. But that's not gping to last, light rail or not. He's foolish to hang onto the vestiges of a dead era.
Or perhaps Freeman's motivations lie in preserving his existing control and ownership of the biggest piece of the downtown pie. Bellevue will soon hit concurrency limits and growth will be limited because of the state's Growth Management Act. If you already have the biggest share, and nobody else can come in, isn't that a pretty good thing for you?
I, for one, am glad that we have Kemper looking over the shoulders of all those befuddled engineers at Sound Transit, WSDOT and the US DOT. Clearly they've all been missing critical 'full-train wave action' effects, that have never been successfully handled in the history of the whole wide world. Have they learned nothing since Galloping Gertie?
@33: It has been my experience that while Bellevue Square shares some of the same stores as Westlake or Southcenter, the ones in Bellevue tend to carry a more upscale inventory.
Not that I at all agree with Freeman. But there is a real difference between the malls.
Digitalwitch, I don't necessarily disagree with you (although I do wonder what Macy's or Penney's has in the way of "more upscale" merchandise, and an Apple Store is an Apple Store, etc ;-) . I'm just saying that Bellevue Square et al, are not all that distinctive or unique. It's a mall surrounded by office buildings and chain hotels. Light rail will not hurt it, and on balance would probably help it.
I fear Kemper suffers under the same delusion that my Auntie Agnes Vel-DuRay suffers from: She lives in Phoenix, Maryland, and her right-wing tool of a boyfriend has her convinced that the Baltimore light rail has allowed "the blacks" to come to the suburbs to rob white people. (she's a dear otherwise, and even at her age could do much better, but you know how people are. If her late husband hadn't been called home to Jesus at an untimely age, she wouldn't even think that)
- Grandad's newspaper drummed up hatred of Japanese people and was instrumental in getting them barred from citizenship prior to Pearl Harbor, and tossed in camps afterwards.
- Grandad buys up strawberry fields previously owned by said Japanese.
- Grandad gives Kemper's dad the land and Kemper Sr. builds Bellevue Square and other properties on top of them. Kemper Jr. inherits all this and porobably considers himself a brilliant businessman.
Kemper hates non-whites and doesn't want them in his shiny, lilly-white mall. It's really not much more complicated than that. Do NOT shop at Bellevue Square. Ever.
Segmentation.
It's how you build things.
If ST sticks to that and gets MSFT support they'll be fine.
I get the impression Freeman owns not just B-Square Mall, but a lot of the parking lots & garages in the vicinity (commentors, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this). If true, then obviously he has a vested interest in keeping Bellevue car-centric, since a mass-transit line would negatively impact his income from those particular properties.
In addition, while LR would make it relatively easier for people to get INTO Bellevue without having to drive (and thus reduce their need to park in Mr. Freeman's garages & lots), the opposite is also true: people from Bellevue & the surrounding suburbs would have a much easier time getting OUT of town & into Seattle, which, frankly, has a lot more to offer in the way of amenities, as anyone who's ever been to downtown Bellevue can easily attest.
From my perspective, those center lanes were funded by the federal money only -- indeed the project never would've happened but for the commitment to ultimately convert the center roadway to exclusive transit use. If Kemper et al didn't like that promise, then why didn't they sue in 1976 when the commitment was made?
What Kemper et al are arguing is that the state contribution amounts to a Poison Pill -- no matter how small the amount of state funds that can be imputed to the center roadway, the entire facility is forever restricted to motor vehicles only.
Hogwash.
He'll figure out a way to sue on some new basis if the itch gets too bad again, and we'll take him down then, too.
Think of him as a not particularly helpful pest, just part of the ecosystem.
Sound Transit policy will be to shut down trains on the bridge for anything other than a 1-year storm. So once or twice a year on a bad year service might be interrupted. Note that in really bad weather 520 has been closed to car traffic, so this is not unusual for a floating bridge on Lake Washington.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/partners/erp/con…
could be. hard to see inside his head.
I gotta say, though, even though it's out of style, that's a real nice looking suit he's got on there. And tie. I'll bet he spends $20,000 a year at Brooks Brothers.
Just thinking about it gives me the willies...where it going to run...on the side? Train overboard!!
Why do you care?
On KUOW, they are having a debate. The topic is "Should the tuition for an English degree be less than that of an engineering degree?"
With all apologies to those who love it, or call it home, Bellevue is just West Omaha with better stores. I'm certain there are some charming waterfront lots, and surely some gracious homes with lovely people, but the business district is really quite banal.
The owner of the condo above the Freemans is Donald Kline, president of Murray Franklyn, the developer that flattened the lot the Bus Stop and Cha Cha used to call home.
Mr. Kline and his wife rent out their condo, and maintain a fancy listing website that gives some sense of Mr. Freeman's neighborhood in the sky...
http://4004onelincolntower.com/
(I'm guessing it's beyond made-to-measure, though.)
"I don’t see how I or others would survive the construction," [Freeman] said.
I grew up in a place that built a 16 mile East/West light rail system that cut from downtown to the U (of Utah). For most of this, I worked downtown and lived near the U. The construction sucked balls. It ruined crosswalks, cut fiber lines, made a bunch of left-turn messes, and generally shat on my car-life on a day to day basis for about 18 months.
Then it was finished and it opened and it was fucking amazing. It's over doubled in size over the last decade and is about to enter the triple/quadruple numbers as they keep steadily expanding the lines. It's literally the only thing I envy about my home town.
So yeah, the construction totally sucks, but if you do it right, the pay-off is much greater than trying to build everything to accommodate cars -- which has seen limited success even in Bellevue. Try to get a quick lunch at Nibbana downtown at 12:30PM M-F and you'll probably end up paying $12 to park. Lame.
Ever see the people in Westlake and Southcenter? Not exactly Bellevue Square material. I respectfully disagree with Kemper in light rail, however he should force the Bellevue station in install turnstiles to catch scofflaws, the kinds who make Westlake so unbearable.
Hey Kemper, why don't you study Denver? We built light rail through our downtown - right through the fucking heart of downtown, at surface - in the early 90s. I think some smaller businesses in the poor part finally had to call it a day, but not anyone with deep pockets. You'll live.
For what it's worth, the only place I've ever had anything stolen from me was Bellevue Square. It's a dreadful place.
OK. So buses already regularly travel from the Downtown Bus Tunnel outside Westlake Center to the Bellevue Transit Center just blocks away from Bellevue Square.
So what's stopping the purported riffraff that you perceive to inundate Bellevue Square now?
Your mind = Blown.
@18: The suit is nice, but that necktie is horrible. And WTF is up with his hair? He looks like a refugee from a Brilcream ad.
Kemper thinks it's still 1968, and in many ways it still is at Bellevue Square. But that's not gping to last, light rail or not. He's foolish to hang onto the vestiges of a dead era.
Not that I at all agree with Freeman. But there is a real difference between the malls.
I fear Kemper suffers under the same delusion that my Auntie Agnes Vel-DuRay suffers from: She lives in Phoenix, Maryland, and her right-wing tool of a boyfriend has her convinced that the Baltimore light rail has allowed "the blacks" to come to the suburbs to rob white people. (she's a dear otherwise, and even at her age could do much better, but you know how people are. If her late husband hadn't been called home to Jesus at an untimely age, she wouldn't even think that)
This is a summary of why he is rich:
- Grandad's newspaper drummed up hatred of Japanese people and was instrumental in getting them barred from citizenship prior to Pearl Harbor, and tossed in camps afterwards.
- Grandad buys up strawberry fields previously owned by said Japanese.
- Grandad gives Kemper's dad the land and Kemper Sr. builds Bellevue Square and other properties on top of them. Kemper Jr. inherits all this and porobably considers himself a brilliant businessman.
Kemper hates non-whites and doesn't want them in his shiny, lilly-white mall. It's really not much more complicated than that. Do NOT shop at Bellevue Square. Ever.