Comments

1
I see what they're saying in general but this is rather disingenuous.
3
Toronto had one and we're jealous, basically. Not that I'm against it.
4
sexual assaults and street harassment happen every fucking day. I am an obviously queer person and yet I still get oggled and harassed by dudes downtown when I choose to walk instead of bike. I'm generally of the OP that slut pride day = EVERY DAY, but there are times when i deliberately tone down the cleavage/booty shorts/whatever in order to not have to deal with as many asshole straight dudes talking about my body and calling me a bitch if i tell them to fuck off and leave me the fuck alone.
5
From the name I assumed it had something to do with the streetcar, South Lake Union Streetcar. Perhaps a different name would have been better for this.
6
id love to go and be a creepy photographer to enforce my right to be a creepy photographer in public.
7
I'm all for any kind of march against rape but personally, advertising that I enjoy sex and dressing like a slut (the male fantasy version of how a fuck object should look) are two totally different things.
8
yes dressing like a slut is partially to blame for getting attention. you wear attention seeking shit? then you better own up to the attention.
9
#8, that's fucking creepy, and it's because unfortunatly guys like you exist in hoards that I feel no sense of liberation dressing like a slut.
10
Is it me or is the advertisment for the appearance of adult film star, Alexis Texas at Adult Superstore on this thread, oddly placed or intended? Seems strange to me.
11
I think that this is a fantastic idea and support it 100%. The name is great, too.
12
@ 8, I'm guessing you have issues with women.
13
How much do you want to bet that more guys show up dressed like sluts than women?
14
I so wish I could go to this.

I recognize that dressing revealingly will get me harassed. It does not make it right, or me any less angry when it happens.
15
This reminded me think of Dave Chappelle's take on woman in very revealing clothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K1KHqi9b…
16
Tim Harris will be all over this, I bet.
17
Some commenters are missing the point of the walk - it's not about walking while looking slutty (that's halloween btw). People are encouraged to wear outfits of all different kinds and for men and women to participate equally because dress and gender is not a a cause of sexual harassment or assault.
18
@12 actually i love women. its not about my personal issues. so that theory aside, i just think its denying the obvious to say walking around with your tits displayed (which im all for) wont attract agressive attention from many men. its that line between being rational and feminist and pragmatic and animalistic. denying animal impulses is bs.
19
Isn't June 19th Father's Day? Not that sluts don't have fathers, and occasionally vice versa. Just wondering.
20
Btw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94kDO3yMT…
Powerful video from SlutWalk Ottowa.
21
@18 We deny animal impulse all the time. I want to go eat everything in the fridge right now, but instead I'm going to have a healthy snack. Easy!

There is a difference between dressing to get attention, something everyone does sometimes, and getting assaulted because of how you dress. A pretty obvious and basic one really and something that most people figure out pretty easily.
22
@18 Right. That's why children, old people, men, nuns, and women who wear burkas never get raped ever.

btw I was cat called by three guys from a window the other day while running through a quick downpour. I was covered in clothes head to toe, my jacket zipped up to my neck, and my hood up. My head was down so I think the only skin they could have seen was that of my hands as I held the top of my hood down. I'm sure they couldn't help displaying their aggressive attentions. Men are such animals.
23
21 most people do, sure. most people deny their animal impulses sure. but all it takes is for one person to see the drunk slutty girl and take advantage of her. there is some god damn responsibility here for both parties. some common sense will say it is not always safe to be slutty. but this isnt about convincing me, because regardless of peoples assumptions from my views, im not the problem. these marches are not going to do shit to convince misogynist etc attackers. its a comedy. good luck w that.
24
@23 Troll.
25
22 those are different problems. this is about a specific way of dress. yes dressing slutty incites certain predators.

26
24 a troll is not someone who disagrees with you. but whatever makes you feel better.
27
@25 What's the difference?
28
@23 No there is a crime and a victim. And really the idea that clothing choice affects rape likelihood is a myth.

And yes, you are the problem.
29
28 ok well im not persuaded then. keep trying. maybe some other cleverly themed march will do the trick.

27 i think youre a little upset. im not trying to make you upset. im just stating a different opinion.
30
@29 What's the difference? Just answer the question. Prove you're not a troll.
31
I worked in construction a long time ago and was one of the very few women on the work-site. It was an interesting experience - the cat-calls generally came from guys sitting in traffic, not the guys I was working with. Now, I'm in construction, okay? I'm wearing a tee-shirt with one of those big orange vests over it, a pair of jeans and ugly work boots. I'm sweaty and covered in dirt and these guys are yelling 'Hey cutie!' and 'work it Mama!' - I thought they were idiots.

But the best part was my coworkers' reactions - at first they got mad and a couple of times I thought they were going to go over and confront the dude who'd cat-called. But then, after one particularly obnoxious cat-call, one of the guys fanned himself with his hand, batted his eyelashes and said 'that was for me.' After that it became a competition on who could claim the cat-calls first.

My point is that obnoxious men will be obnoxious to women no matter what a woman is wearing or looks like.
32
dude i just saw this totally hot chick with a big butt jogging outside my window
33
Drive a really nice car with a really nice entertainment system into a bad neighborhood. Leave it unlocked. Have it stolen. You're definitely the victim, but you contributed to your victimhood.
34
Wow. Given the attitudes of the many of the men on this post, is it any wonder that the women in Seattle wear crocs and gym clothes everywhere? Lest we get raped or somehow ask for it?
35
A march to celebrate that they're nothing more than "Meatholes" whores.
37
Victim blaming is an old, tired and truly barbaric game. I think the point they are making is that a spotlight needs to shine on this practice. As a society we aim for greater goods and this topic has not had it's day on the pedestal like other things we have decided are intolerable (like racial slurs and gay bashing.) The most blatant form of victim blaming does seem to start with some reference to "what she was wearing", yet there are many others. The posts on NPR were so horrific when the journalist was attacked in Egypt that NPR disabled all comments and spoke to this very issue directly. It was more than inferred that Mia Zapata shouldn't have been walking alone at night (yes, Seattle, this a issue here for me.)

It's not that there have been an increase of incidents in Seattle, it is just time that victim blaming was addressed and victims (and their supporters) are lending a voice where one is needed in a loud and proud way. Put the blame where it belongs.

http://nogreatermalesupporter.blogspot.c…

It seems from the posts that some education would be interesting and/or useful : )
38
When I was twelve, my babysitter's boyfriend raped me. I was wearing little-girl jeans and a t-shirt with a glittery turtle on it. Did I ask for it? Did I "incite certain predators?" Did my rapist just fall victim to his "animal impulses?" Is it okay that a man raped a little girl?

What about my best friend, when she was sixteen and had a birthday party at her dad's house one weekend he wasn't home? She was wearing a skirt and a tank top, and too much makeup, and someone she thought she could trust raped her. Did she ask for it then? She WAS wearing a skirt, after all. Is THAT okay?

And how about a boy I met who was raped when he was 22? He was at a club and his drink was spiked. He went home with a man he'd never met who had sex with him while he was unconscious. He was wearing pretty tight jeans. Was HE asking for it? Is it okay yet? Can we blame the victims now? They were asking for it right?
39
@ aardvark: Besides the fact that you are clearly poorly educated, you need to understand that your way of thinking perpetuates the astronomical levels of sexual assault in our society. When you say that women who dress a certain way have to "expect" negative attention from men, you're essentially denying the fact that MEN are to blame for sexual assault. You're failing to understand that without MEN being taught that it is okay to assault women for whatever reason, sexual assault would be a very rare occurrence. Instead, men like you like to tell yourselves that women are somehow to blame when MEN "can't control themselves" (which, by the way, they, and anyone else, can). The only thing that your way of thinking does is take away responsibility from the people who are RESPONSIBLE for sexual assault. Perhaps you have assaulted someone (which includes taking advantage of a woman who is clearly too intoxicated to consent), and this is your way of (poorly) justifying it to yourself, because, after all "she was dressed like a slut!". Either way, you're denying that it is men who sexually assault women (as well as men and children), by assigning some blame to the victims. Do you kinda-sorta-maybe get it now?
40
kisses 39. so i dang done hung out at truckstops ma whole life an this here the first set a smart people i ever done tawk to. he har. thanks fer bein so nice to me an awl, bein so new round here. so i guess it dont done matter that im just some dude, unedudacated an awl, who done happen to be a hard left feminist that done think yall are a buncha male sexuality hatin sluts. derp derp. why, this post shoulda just been called, March Against Male Sexuality. love yall, no matter how batshit crazy yall are. take it up with yer fellow ladies who love to be treated like sluts in bed, have their hair pulled, beg to be fucked silly and all, tied up an shit. i dont like it personally. i would like a nice sensitive love making session but all these sluts want to be treated like whores. so, you speaking for all the women? maybe you just dont speak fer all the ladies but the ones who love feelin like victims. go ahead, have yer parade. you wont done der change male sexuality ladies.
42
@ 31- haha, that's awesome.
43
I think it's funny that my point in post 39 (ie. that men commit sexual assault, period, and as such men are the only people who can actually be blamed for it) was completely disregarded. Instead, Aardvark decided to focus his entire comment on my statement about him being poorly educated (and about some women's desire to be called a slut in bed, which by the way takes place in a consensual situation and can therefore not be compared to sexual assault in any way). That doesn't look good for you, Aardvark!

Oh, and for the record, this reverse-sexism (ie. y'all are just a bunch of male-sexuality-hatin-sluts) is ridiculous. I absolutely love (most) men, but as Ken said, I have an issue with (some) men's self-concept of masculinity, which is so deeply rooted in insecurity and the desire to be "in control" that any woman who doesn't take well to their demeaning "advances" is immediately reduced to a rude word. (I won't even mention the double standard thing, since that is just so obvious). Of course that isn't necessarily the fault of these men individually, but of poor parenting within a culture that is still deeply steeped in sexism, where men are conditioned to deny their basic human emotions, which exacerbates the violence (one aspect of which is sexual violence) of our society and contributes to a host of other problems.
44
aardvark, the point of a Slutwalk is not to claim that we live in a society where it is possible to dress however you like and not be harassed. Obviously we don't. But the Slutwalk gestures at the possibility of a society where that might be possible. And encourages conversations such as the one on this thread.

If your first reaction when hearing that a woman was raped is to ask what she was wearing and in what neighborhood, rather than to ask what the rapist(s) were up to before he/they made the decision to assault her -- that's what the Slutwalks are trying to make us reconsider.
45
There's been a lot said here except if anyone is willing to spend time walking for this cause. I, for one, will be walking. I found the event on FB and logged my RSVP. It seems obvious in light of some of the posts here that awareness of this issue does need to be raised : P
46
To the person who made the analogy of driving a nice car into a bad neighborhood: right, bad decision. But wouldn't you be pissed off if the judge decided to give the criminal a lesser sentence because you were obviously asking for it? And wouldn't you wonder about the quality of the investigation if the cop assigned to your case remarked that you should have known better? That's what's happening to women in this country, that's what happened to the woman in Canada, and that's the point of our marching.

And Aardvark, did you really just say that sexually assaulting women is part of your right to express your male sexuality? Yeah, you did. You have a problem.



47
Wow, no one could have ever predicted the back and forth going on here.
48
@47, cultural change is hard and, yeah, kinda dull. Sorry.

The day guys are willing to do this kind of hard work, they might be able to change the culture that says moms should be sex-negative, and should punish dads for having sexual thoughts.

But no, easier to just complain about being bored. You think women aren't bored of pointing out that they ought to be able to walk down the street without being verbally or physically assaulted?
49
well, in any case, i respect ladies who are trying to carve out a piece of self respect and equality in any society. i dont mean to distract from the point of this event but i love the debate because i think alot of the feminist ideals go too far. what those are in this case can be debated, none of it is really clear.

i for one love it when girls dress slutty. i love it when women look good and i will tell them so when they are my type and showin the goods off. that i promise will never change. and nor should it. its just positive sexuality. dont like it? dont flaunt it.

one thing you might want to focus on in your effort to change people is that women actually teach men to be aggressive. nice quite guys dont get laid. ive been on both sides, i know how it works.

have a good time, stay safe, dont get your panties in a bunch, stay positive.
50
@49 You can compliment a woman on her looks. (Quiet voice meant for only her ears: "hi, sexy," said with a friendly smile.) Okay, a few women will get upset even at that; but most will give you a smile back.

Or you can verbally assault her. (Loud voice, meant to get a laugh from guys around: "Hi, Sexy! Wanna come sit on this?" Benefit: equally humiliating to the woman whether or not you actually think she is attractive.)

Go ahead, tell me you can't tell the difference.
51
Aardvark: WOMEN don't teach men to be aggressive; society teaches men to be aggressive. Society (in general) also teaches men that they have to see women as nothing more than a body in order to be a "real man", although good parenting by well-educated and socially-aware adults can prevent these attitudes from becoming reality for boys. Furthermore, society teaches women that they are only valuable if they dress a certain way (quite the paradox!), and that they are only valuable if they are physically attractive. Even with educated and socially-aware parents, the sexualization of girls and women in the media makes it much harder for females to transcend these norms. So, when a woman dresses the way the media and the rest of society tells her she should (if she wants to feel wanted and/or attractive), and then gets demeaned by men who are taught to be aggressive, or is sexually assaulted by men who think they have the right to violate a person's autonomy, why are we blaming the women? And why are women EVER blamed for being sexually assaulted, when it is the fault of the men for committing the crime of assault? Something to think about.

A good study on this issue: "Rape: Too Hard to Report and Too Easy to Discredit Victims." Look it up.
52
@49,
After I read your snippet, I recall this exchange from the website "Overheard in New York". The site is meant to be funny but sometimes I REALLY wonder:

Don't You Want to Play Let's You and Him Fight?

Girl #1: I'm saving that seat for my boyfriend. He's right behind you.
Guy: There's another seat right there.
Girl #1: But it's for my boyfriend! Don't sit there!
Guy: Well, I'm not moving.
Girl #1: I can't believe you. Move!
Guy: No.
Guy's girlfriend: He hurt his ankle earlier.
Girl #1: I can't believe you wouldn't move.
Guy: Don't be a bitch.
Girl #1: Real gentlemanly! (to boyfriend) Why didn't you defend me when he called me a bitch?!
Girl #1's boyfriend: (silence)

--Uptown A Train
53
one of my fav photos, says so much-
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7847/…
maybe from a felini film or something.

i think specific examples and anecdotes are the way to go here. theory is for academics and grad students that want to play act.

ericaP, I love your examples. of course anyone can tell the difference. but the interesting point to me is "Okay, a few women will get upset even at that". there is a total grey area here. no woman can speak for all women and same for men. its complicated, and yes, cultural. american women have exquisite complex contradictions. the rules change from woman to woman. open the door? tactful compliment? persistence? independence? dependence? its not even clear what slutwalk is about. the right to wear whatever? the right to be a slut? the right to not be harassed? to not be overly harassed in a specific way? rape awareness? victim blaming? its just a clusterfuck, and so it just becomes a kind of joke. no focus. its just in the direction of puritan self righteousness. this doesnt create respect but erodes it.

i know there are plenty of sex positive women and men out there who can handle themselves and do just fine. the desire to flatten all the dances of sexuality strike me as just neurotic.
54
I'd love to go to Slutwalk in what I was wearing the last time I got street harassed: yoga pants, a jacket zipped up to my neck, walking my dog, and seven months pregnant. Yep, totally inciting animal impulses at 8am in my neighborhood. Or when the group of men followed me onto a bus home and harassed me: jeans, sandals, a cardigan over a t-shirt. I'm sure they just couldn't control themselves at the sight of my skanktacular feet.

Sexual assault/verbal harassment isn't about sexual desire, it's about attempting to assert dominance over another human being. Being female is just the easiest feature of someone to target.
55
@aardvark

what you've said in this thread is frankly disturbing and a little creepy. You've trotted out a bunch of stereotypes about women (they never fall for the "nice men," any woman who dresses "slutty" is looking for attention", etc) and then used "no woman can speak for all women...the rules change from woman to woman" as justification for the way you're acting. Well, it sure seems like one man thinks he can speak for all women.

Nobody is saying that when a woman dresses sexily you can't look or say something, provided it's not "let me stick it in you, honey." But you need to realize that dressing "slutty" is in itself a grey area: as somebody further up asked, what even qualifies as slutty? tight jeans? how many buttons at the top unbuttoned equal slutty? how short does a skirt have to be before its slutty? By assuming that if a woman happens to equal your idea of slutty, she's obviously sending you secret code for "she wants to be harassed," you're being silly.
56
@aardvark: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to point out the core of slutwalk's message. A message that you and others of your ilk so desperately need to hear. And here it is dude: Nobody owes you pussy. You may say that's crazy talk. Of course you're owed pussy! You're a Nice Guy™! You help girls move! You compliment their tits! Why oh why don't women understand that they owe you pussy? You have a penis and the penis has neeeeeeds! It's not fair! Life isn't fair cupcake. Ask any one of the rape victims posting here. Go ahead. Ask me.
58
@57: Thank you Ken. I appreciate that. I probably shouldn't have said anything. It's not like Aardvark will get it. He'll just keep merrily derp derp derping along with every one else who can't grasp the fact that the only person responsible for the act of rape is the rapist. Full Stop. It just makes me so tired sometimes.
But again, thank you Ken.
59
"And here it is dude: Nobody owes you pussy." no shit. im not even going there. that's your strawman.

my position is more closely connected to the following analogy. i think both of the following extreme positions are simply unrealistic. this issue reminds of me extreme pro-lifers and how crazy they are though they mean well.

-Ideal position: Don't have sex. (slutwalk: Don't ever consider women as sex objects).
-If you do have sex, use contraceptive (Be tactful in your compliments)
-and/or don't use any contraceptives and if god wants a baby its a baby (anyone who gives a woman the look is a creep / potential rapist).
- if you get pregnant and and have an abortion you are a murderer (if you cat call a girl you are akin to a rapist).

Hint: I don't take "pro-lifers" seriously. But I understand their concern.

--
and of course lisa im sorry if you or anyone were raped. i have women in my life that have been there. please dont project all your hate on me. or you can because really im just a one dimensional man here.
60
@59 what is your point? Be tactful in your compliments? Sure, I think everyone is on board with that.

But it sounds like you are saying that "catcalling a girl" is not a problem. I assume that by "catcalling" you mean, for instance, my second example @50: (Loud voice, meant to get a laugh from guys around: "Hi, Sexy! Wanna come sit on this?" Benefit: equally humiliating to the woman whether or not you actually think she is attractive.)

Why are you defending that? You don't think catcalls makes it difficult for women to feel confident in our society? You don't think confident women make for better sex partners? Why do you want subservient, insecure sex partners, instead of happy, confident sex partners?

61
ericaP, you are less hysterical on this than others. i appreciate that.

i dont have that sharp of a point. just a general skepticism. but i would say that i do like to enjoy beautiful women when i see them. nothing is more beautiful that a confident, secure (not pretentious!) woman. men admiring women in the street- thats just apart of life and its funny when some uptight women think this will ever change. im really trying hard to stop now, stay quiet and just get on with my enjoyment now. it does seem like alot of women here dont really understand men's intentions, which are usually benign. and im not talking about physical abuse, threats, etc. just the ol game in the street.
62
"men's intentions, which are usually benign."

Maybe you could take the word of some of the older women on this thread. I'm 41, and no, men's intentions are not "usually benign." Sometimes benign, maybe even often benign, but nowhere near "usually." Maybe women's aren't either. I'm not sure what kind of sheltered life you've led that makes you think everyone is nice and kind to each other out in the real world.
63

One in every six American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. I bet you don’t think you know any rapists, but consider the sheer number of rapes that must occur. These rapes are not all committed by Phillip Garrido, Brian David Mitchell, or other members of the Brotherhood of Scary Hair and Homemade Religion. While you may assume that none of the men you know are rapists, I can assure you that at least one is. Consider: if every rapist commits an average of ten rapes (a horrifying number, isn’t it?) then the concentration of rapists in the population is still a little over one in sixty. That means four in my graduating class in high school. One among my coworkers. One in the subway car at rush hour. Eleven who work out at my gym. How do I know that you, the nice guy who wants nothing more than companionship and True Love, are not this rapist?

I don’t.

When you approach me in public, you are Schrödinger’s Rapist. You may or may not be a man who would commit rape. I won’t know for sure unless you start sexually assaulting me. I can’t see inside your head, and I don’t know your intentions. If you expect me to trust you—to accept you at face value as a nice sort of guy—you are not only failing to respect my reasonable caution, you are being cavalier about my personal safety.

64
One in every six American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. I bet you don’t think you know any rapists, but consider the sheer number of rapes that must occur. These rapes are not all committed by Phillip Garrido, Brian David Mitchell, or other members of the Brotherhood of Scary Hair and Homemade Religion. While you may assume that none of the men you know are rapists, I can assure you that at least one is. Consider: if every rapist commits an average of ten rapes (a horrifying number, isn’t it?) then the concentration of rapists in the population is still a little over one in sixty. That means four in my graduating class in high school. One among my coworkers. One in the subway car at rush hour. Eleven who work out at my gym. How do I know that you, the nice guy who wants nothing more than companionship and True Love, are not this rapist?

I don’t.

When you approach me in public, you are Schrödinger’s Rapist. You may or may not be a man who would commit rape. I won’t know for sure unless you start sexually assaulting me. I can’t see inside your head, and I don’t know your intentions. If you expect me to trust you—to accept you at face value as a nice sort of guy—you are not only failing to respect my reasonable caution, you are being cavalier about my personal safety.

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