heh. wank files.

(also: good advice, dan.)
Believe me, Bill, if you regret that this ever happened, Dino feels that way times ten. Maybe even a hundred. Dan's advice is spot on: This never happened.
"and DINO wouldn't be old enough to have grown children and a dried-up, bitter, withholding wife at home"

nice Dan, that you have the inside scoop on why there's no sex for Dino - gotta be that dried up bitter wife - couldn't possibly be any responsibility on Dino's side, or any other reason. It's nice to know you have all the answers sorted out ahead of time just like those Christian folk do?!

Jeez Dan, you can be just as prejudicial, presumptuous, and or use stereotypes as the many others that you (justifiably) call out for such ridiculous thoughts.
and a dried-up, bitter, withholding wife at home

Where did the letter say this, Dan? Did I miss something? Sheesh!

Oh Bill, you really shouldn't have.
Small quibble. This may be less "trade" than "I was so drunk I can't even remember what happened last night" (now known as a "brojob"). Yes, they're essentially the same thing, but "trade" does imply the possibility of repeat while the other doesn't (I guess brojob technically falls somewhere in between, but this has one-off written all over it).

Not to mention, you feel bad about falling of the monogamy wagon. Why would you want to do it again and feel (presumably) worse? Don't think of the elephant and move along. And check the comments to last week's letter from a lesbian considering pegging some gay co-workers on the perils of screwing around in the workplace.
Like the others, I'm with you on the answer, but "and a dried-up, bitter, withholding wife at home"? WTF is that bullshit? Of course, that terrible, evil bitter bitch. How dare she not put out for her husband? I mean, there's no chance there could be any reason the sex dried up, right? We must automatically assume that the sexual death of the relationship must be the woman's fault, not the fault of the poor, helpless, blow-job from in-law accepting dude.

Generally good advice, but really not-ok laying of blame too.
@4 My understanding is that guys who get blow jobs in the front seat of cars can also have Elizabeth Hurley at home... ;)
LOL! Losers gonna lose.
@7 for the win.
What I don't understand is what on earth makes people want to confess this kind of thing. I mean, yes, I can understand feeling guilty, but how could anyone possibly think that admitting to a partner that you had sex with their sibling wouldn't be a gigantic fucking problem? Just imagining that conversation makes me wince.
You guys are right—amended my response!

That, my friend, is simply poetic. Tomorrow, we all will wake to hipsters across 'Merica wearing t-shirts with your words of wisdom blazing from their collective bosoms. We are blessed that you took the time to share such wonderous, insightful commentary.
Canuck, ladies and gentlemen. Canuck.
Dan - I think the LW let the brother-in-law's real name slip in in the third paragraph? Might want to change it to Dino.
@13 Straight off the pages of Dlisted, eh?
Were you being sarcastic? Oh sweet irony! The post-hipster hipster. I personally loved my blue color wisdom. It stank of the land, crystallized in the black eye of a nascar fan's wife.
Ha ha, Canuck!

If there were a war between gay guys and straight guys, this is the kind of story the gay guys would drop in pamphlets on the straight guys territory. It's basically Tokyo Rose stuff -- give up, surrender, you'll never satisfied by females...all that kind of thing.
No one else thinks the LW is a giant douchebag? Who cheats on someone with their brother? That is so fucking disturbing. Not only that, but it was clearly pre-meditated. How can you be so fucking selfish as to risk not only your own relationship, but also the relationship of your boyfriend and his brother, if this gets out? I feel so angry on behalf of your boyfriend, you are a real POS.
You can't imagine breaking up with him? I think he would have that covered for you, if he found out....
I really think the LW should talk to the brother-in-law, discreetly; not about what happened, but to make sure they both have an understanding that it never happened. It would be a misfortune if the LW told his partner, but if the brother-in-law told the partner, that would be a calamity.
@19 I think the LW is a giant douchebag. Honestly, I can understand how one can come to be attracted to inappropriate people, and I can understand how alcohol + temptation can lead to regrettable choices. What I can't understand is why LW would take a shameful but private lapse and turn it into a painful bombshell by having to blab about it.
Dan, great advice, but you forgot to mention one thing: admitting this to his partner will probably destroy not only the relationship, but the entire extended family. Think of it: brother vs brother, man vs wife, father vs kids... it's an endless clusterfuck of aggression and mayhem. Someone could actually get killed.

All that aside... I do understand the whole situational homosexuality thing. Once every few months I mess around with (ok, service) a very straight married guy who's wife won't put out. He never touches me, and only wants one very specific thing. The point, is that I know that this guy is emotionally hetero, and although I like him, I'd never fool myself into believing that he could ever develop a romantic attachment to another male.

Ultimately, the LW needs to back off. LW is not insightful enough to see Dino's "straightness," and with respect to the family, he's basically playing with a hand grenade.
... we still enjoy an active sex life, though I’ll admit it has become somewhat routine.
I'm surprised nobody has brought up the possibility that LW is going through the 7-year itch (though, for him, it's been a decade). Sex is okay, but no longer the hot stuff he remembers. So ... does he try to change that? Of course not, that would be TOO logical. Instead he gets a mild crush on taboo territory, the B-I-L, who - to make things even more of a challenge - is straight. But - hey - there's a certain symmetry there: B-I-L's not getting any (much ... whatever) and LW is bored with the sex he's getting. Though, the LW sounds almost wistfully naive in his regret that B-I-L didn't reciprocate. What? Did he think the B-I-L might have an epiphany?

Arrgghh. ::shakes head in frustration::

LW, get your head out of your own ass. If you have to think of virtual bleach to get the stupid crush out of your brain FOREVER, then do so. Forget about the drunken indiscretion with the B-I-L, especially about revealing it or trying it again - unless you want your decade-long relationship to END at 10 years.

Instead, start thinking of how you can revitalize your OWN sex life with your partner. If you've never watched porn together, maybe suggest it. Or, if you do, go get some new stuff. Or take a vacation where, usually, people end up getting their mojo back, because they're removed from the humdrum environment of work, responsibility, etc.

Anyway, there's this little thing called communication that couples need to engage in. No, it's not optional. If your partner wonders why you're coming up with all of these variations in sex, then you can say you've been thinking of different things and the potential of actually doing them with him makes you really hot. Unless you know everything about his sexual past (and have Done. It. All), I can't see him turning you down. And, if you're lucky, you'll like the idea that HE likes the idea and you'll both get something out of it. Like more energy in the relationship and a lot more fun sex.
I would advise you to stuff this blew-your-brother business down the memory hole. Let your husband continue to think you're still the person he married—not a cheater and certainly not a cheater-with-family-members—and work harder at being that person.

How timely, this being Easter Monday and all. What a perfectly Catholic answer. Well played, Savage!
Eww. That letter kinda put me off my danish.
@3,4,6 --- did nobody read the parenthetical addition after that sentence you're all so worked up about?

@3: "nice Dan, that you have the inside scoop on why there's no sex for Dino - gotta be that dried up bitter wife - couldn't possibly be any responsibility on Dino's side, or any other reason. It's nice to know you have all the answers sorted out ahead of time just like those Christian folk do?!

Jeez Dan, you can be just as prejudicial, presumptuous, and or use stereotypes as the many others that you (justifiably) call out for such ridiculous thoughts."

That was the "fantasy", you idiot.
@27 meet @11.....doh! :)
more proof that "homosexual"
is something people choose to do,
or not,
and not what they "are"......
@ 27 check the time stamps and Dan's comment at 11. Dan added the parenthetical after the shit storm.
@ 30 - sorry you beat me to it. I can't believe it took six minutes to post a comment.
I appreciate Dan's parenthetical ammendment to the original response. Some women also grow weary of dull, routine sex. Some men also string together a line of bullshit about how the wife won't put out--not sure exactly why this becomes the story of choice, I would think it would come across more pathetic than poor me.

So okay, so what if somewhere down the road SO turns to LW out-of-the-blue/pillow-talkish and asks, perhaps in complete innocence, "So have you ever cheated on me during our time together?," thinking his next questions after the certain denial are gonna be "Well, have you ever been tempted? What was he like?"--but then he suddenly notices that LW is reddening and looking at his fingernails while he tries to smoothly deny. What then? Maybe LW ought to try to get SO to open up the relationship now some way, somehow, and if he succeeds a little, feel retrospectively absolved.

Yeah, that's fucked. This is why you talk through this kind of stuff early in your r'ship and regularly thereafter, instead of thinking with your little head.

I'm so honest that if somebody ever asked me something like that out of the blue, I'd be all fumbly and blushy and nervous THINKING that the other guy would think I was guilty, though totally innocent.
Do you support marriage rights for polygamists?
Might want to get rid of the name-switch from "Dino" in the last paragraph there.
Is "brojob" a brilliant neologism or am I just reading it for the first time?
Hmm. Maybe I should lay off the whores for a bit and let that guy at the gym suck me off.
This letter so stuns me that it has taken me half an hour to be able to start a post, and I don't dare start a detailed one now, as it's already past my bedtime. Then again, the chance of sleeping halfway decently has just been cut at least in half. I hope I shall address this in the morning.

I can, however, think of at least one straight man to whom BILL might transfer his affections and wishes...
Also, I want to hit the loud pedal on something @5 touched on but nobody else thus far: don't dip your wick in the office pool, dumbshit. Yes, every now and then people who have no other social outlets meet the loves of their life at work, they realize it, and they figure out the tricky business of keeping their relationship out of office politics. And I'd tend to give two fags more understanding in that sitch because a) the odds are more against you when you're gay, and b) on the whole you're probably less likely to be dickish to co-workers than a hetero power couple. But workplace sex/romance is still a really bad idea right out the gate.

So, LW, you cheated, you did so within the work circle, you did it with a straight guy, and you did it with an in-law. It's like looking in a kaleidoscope, thinking about how many ways that could blow up.

(Re: 35, if anyone wondered, SO is significant other--the LW's partner/husband.)
Stonewall documentary in on right now on PBS...
@ 7 Canuck for the win, obviously, but let's not forget one detail - Elizabeth was in England at the time, which is very different from saying that "your wife at home who just won't put out".

Still, many guys will come up with just about any excuse to get a free BJ, playing the victim is an easy way to get there, and the usual lines almost always start with "My wife...". So, if the letter isn't fake, I'd say the LW is either rather stupid or rather inexperienced, or a bit of both. That' what monogamy does to you: you lose all your BS detection skills with straight-identified men.
I'm with catballou and Ricardo. Why do straight guys need to blame their wives if they want to get their dick sucked by a guy? Why do gays like @22 need to believe them? "Once every few months I service a very straight married guy whose wife won't put out." He wants you to service his dick, you want the same; fine.

I'd prefer you clear things with his wife first, but if you're not going to, do you really have to also blame her for causing him to stray? What difference is it to you, what goes on in their marriage, or what excuses the guy tells himself?

Also, catballou, did you get the news about the first "unofficial" Denver Slog Happy Hour? 5280 posted it as a comment on last Saturday's "Morning News": Saturday, April 30th at noon at the Satire Lounge, 1920 East Colfax Avenue on the real Capitol Hill.
@38 - Yes, thought it was rather brilliant as well ;) But apparently it has been around at least since 2005: UD definition. You learn something new everyday...
@30, 32, 33 --- started scanning for more references to that one sentence & didn't see #11. Hoopsy daisy.
Nice try, Erica, but I don't think Catballou lives on Slog quite like some of the rest of us. She'll either get the message or not. There's nothing much any of us can do beyond that.
@44: "He wants you to service his dick, you want the same; fine.... do you really have to also blame her for causing him to stray"

For most straight guys, situational homosexuality is an act of desperation born of shitty circumstances. When someone mentions a situational homo (or hetero, for that matter), it kind of begs the question, what situation drove him to that? The reason seems worth a mention.

It's interesting (and thoroughly depressing to me, personally) to see the women here get defensive on the subject of withholding sex.
I am with seandr.

Dan is an asshole, he makes semi-offinsive comments about one thing or another on a regular basis, it one of the most entertaining things about his column and slog. Every time the group of people concerned get offended thinking that he is so awful, but don't give a shit when it is targeted at someone else, because it is funny. If you get annoyed, or offended, every time that comment is about one particular issue then you should probably think about why that is.
I've been thinking about pirate/prison situhomo off and on for a while now and wonder if that's the kind of sex: loveless, desperate, and usually in some way abusive, that They were referring to in Leviticus, separate from the kind of sex two gay men who love (or at least lovingly lust) each other do. Thoughts?
@seandr and Adam west...I also noticed the kind of extreme language on this one (imagining a dried up bag of twigs with a head, sheesh, it was a little snarkier than usual) but I also think what you guys said is entirely valid: Obviously, Dan gets a ton of letters from guys who are unhappy with their withholding wives, and getting defensive about it isn't going to solve the problem. Sure, there are undoubtedly some asshole husbands out there who "just don't get it," but my money would be on there being a whole lot more average Joes whose wives have simply lost interest in all but the most basic maintenance sex, and rather than getting defensive, we should be launching an all out national campaign to bring nookie back. (Is Obama still looking for a campaign slogan??)
Yeah, I think Canuck is exactly right about what the defensiveness is about for some. Certainly not all but for some of us.

I mean, I feel like I can say with a fairly high degree of certainty that EricaP is not withholding and yet she got defensive.

It's the 'dried up' crack which is an age insult. You don't call young women 'dried up' even if they are completely asexual.

Dan makes a big show about refusing to acknowledge his own aging but try getting old after spending a bronze age lifetime being subjected to the idea that your whole worth as a human being rests on your sexual viability.

It makes you a little touchy.
Dan is master at getting people into the discussion, whether they agree or disagree, because he makes extreme statements. It really doesn’t matter if he’s writing about sex, civil rights or pitbulls, his blog posts dominate “most commented...” He’s very effective.
Here's how it looks to me: if my son complains that his sister hit him, I say: "Don't tell me about her, tell me about you. What do YOU need? A hug? A band-aid? A trip to the ER?" I'm not interested in adjudicating their squabbles.

Similarly, unless you're a therapist, why listen to what one spouse says about the other? You know it's more complicated than that.

Just ask the person in front of you what he or she needs. Focus on that.

(And to continue a conversation from another week: I still think that in many/most of the marriages where sex dried up, the marriage never focused on the woman's physical pleasure in bed. If the sex was never hot for her, then yeah, years later, it's going to dry up. So all of you accusing women of "causing" the drought -- there's a long-standing lack of consideration on both sides, I'd be willing to bet.)
shw3nn, some people deny their aging, some don't. I don't know about you, but for me, when I see a woman who's pumped her lips full of crap, and her face moves strangely because of all the work she's had done, it doesn't make me jealous, or wish I didn't have wrinkles, it makes me sad. It doesn't look better, it looks odd, and all you have to do is look at someone like Helen Mirren smiling to realize that older can also be sexier. Fuck 'em if they think we dry up, we know the truth... ;)
I tried, but this just makes me too sad. Pandora's Box with a vengeance. And if, after having started very near the top of the tree in Worst Possible Choices for First Cheat, BILL still half wants it to happen again, I just don't see this ending well.
I didn't read "dried up" as "old". Maybe Dan was referring to the effects of menopause or "man-o-pause", but I thought is was in reference to the "rapturous well" that aptly discribes a healthy sexual relationship becoming dry. Perhaps, I need more coffee or I just don't want to even entertain the idea that could someday become my future, ever.

You make me laugh and smile on a regular basis. Which, to me, indicates that Mr. Canuck is damn lucky. You're the kind of woman who can tie him up and make him plead. You spirit is a knock out, dear.

Yes, Helen can rock a bikini with the best of them. Sexy doesn't have an age, it has an attitude.


Lovely to read beautiful you, EricaP.
@57: YES YES YES!!!!

I used to work with a lot of men, some of whome complained about their wives not putting out enough. Years later, I hang with a lot women who compain that their spouse is quite eager to have sex, but too lazy or impatient to take the time to get them off too. Some having admitted to begging, pleading, repeatedly demonstrating how to do it. Some say it improves for a bit but then the guys say it takes too long so they quit. So some women resign themselves to boring, unsatisfying sex. I hear enough of this to put my money on it. Doesn't that sound like hell? I can't imagine willingly giving up the pleasures of sex myself.

I just make sure I never ever tell them about my spouse - he gets really hot giving orgasms to me. That would be like rubbing salt into a wound.

p.s. This doens't apply to that time in life when there's new baby in the house and the sex drive takes a temporary nose dive.
Canuck, hell to the yes! Aging is like a battle between your ego and your dignity. When I see women like those you described, all I think is, "You chose the wrong side, M'Lady."

If ever I feel insecure about aging, I listen to The Triplets of Belleville:

I won't finish my life in Timbuktu
cheeks so tight my lips are turning blue
I'd like to be wrinkled, utterly wrinkled
wrinkled like a Triplet from Belleville
I hope Dan wasn't refering to menopause since this post menopause woman doesn't like to think of herself as 'dried up'. Wrinkled, yes, going grey, yes. But not dried up. Heck, now I don't have to worry about that damn "time of the month" mucking things up. The kids are grown and gone. Life is good!

Kim, you are too kind! Indeed, Mr. Canuck does his fair share of pleading, but I believe it is more in supplication to a divine Being to spare him any more of my bad jokes or the utter dismissal of the seriousness with which he approaches life... :) Poor thing... Yes, Helen Mirren is a knock-out. My goal, as I age, is to aim for funky rather than twenty...
And you, my dear, are an inspiration. If I ever develop blogging manners, I will owe them to you! <3
@49 says "For most straight guys, situational homosexuality is an act of desperation born of shitty circumstances."

Is that even true? I know straight guys say so, but... 15% of older men reported having received a blowjob from a guy at some point in their lives (National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior 2010, p.259)

These husbands looking for a guy to blow them, they're not in prison or on a ship - for $100 they could get a blowjob from a non-skanky sex worker. They pick a guy instead; I don't know whether that's more frugality or desire for male sexual energy - but it's not "an act of desperation born of shitty circumstances."
shw3nn, that is an excellent little ditty! I have this postcard over my desk, showing two bathing beauties from the 1920s:
"The goal of life shouldn't be to arrive at the grave in a well-preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, body thoroughly used up, champagne glass in hand, saying "Woo hoo, what a ride!"
I don't think stuffing it down the memory hole is going to suffice in this instance. The multiple taboos broken here (cheating, with a relative and coworker, who is straight, so thoroughly premeditated) say to me that the LW is looking for thrills, and that this is not going to be the last time. If he had a healthy maturity about this situation, he'd be mortified by his teenage behavior and there wouldn't be any wah-wahing about "what should I dooooo?!" He's loving the drama.

So, while I don't know if coming clean would benefit your partner, LW, I do know that you're not able to be monogamous, and you need to renegotiate, or leave. Chances are your partner is bored too, so a conversation definitely needs to happen.

Also, what is exciting about a gay man servicing a straight man, who has no interest in his pleasure or his feelings, and is often disgusted by himself/the servicer? It seems like degradation to me, and while that can be hot in and of itself, isn't it a bit unhealthy?
@49 Seandr has it right.

Who knows why the brother-in-law accepted the BJ. Given the choice between an enthusiastic mouth worshiping your penis or a hooker doing it with a condom on out of financial obligation, is it that much of a surprise why some guys choose the former?

@58 Canuck, please keep preaching this. Older women are damn sexy, especially when they own their experience. Confidence is sexy, at any age. Mutton dressed as lamb looks pathetic.
@69 - Most sex workers don't use condoms for blowjobs. And she'll convince you that she's enjoying it.
EricaP @56 & @57: "You know it's more complicated than that."

Well, in my experience, it actually wasn't any more complicated than that. We had kids, the wife lost libido, probably due to a combination of hormones, fatigue, stress, emotional primacy of motherhood.

Of course, this situation led to all kinds of marital therapy and arguments and casting about for explanations and responsibility and blame, and inevitably it became about character flaws, and soon we had constructed a complicated, byzantine web of hurt and resentment around it that touched every aspect of our relationship. So, in that sense, it became (needlessly) complicated.

I still think that in many/most of the marriages where sex dried up, the marriage never focused on the woman's physical pleasure in bed

I disagree, but perhaps I'm generalizing from my situation. I love making women come, and I especially love eating pussy. Once the wife's libido left, she simply refused to be the focus. Just wasn't interested.

Seems to me that we could avoid a lot of pain by acknowledging that the physiological and emotional circumstances surrounding having kids can deplete a woman's libido. Being sexually neglected is painful enough for men to go through - no need to blame them for it as well.
@71 I didn't start the blame war. I'm not interested in it. I say: deal with the person in front of you, and what that person wants or needs, and don't blame the spouse at home.

But since you bring up your situation as evidence that your wife's body is to blame, let me point out your own words: "I love making women come, and I especially love eating pussy." You would be more convincing if you said: "When we were first married, she loved having a finger in her ass, and a lot of fast tongue action right on her clit." Or some other sentence where the subject of the sentence, the one "loving" the activity -- was her. Not you.
Ah EricaP, how I love thee. :)
@68 - Much in agreement. I finally have enough stomach to respond to the concluding question. How to get over him? Try wanting to get over him first. Really wanting it.

As for the last part, I just hear Maggie Smith's Brodie voice in my head saying, "For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like." It's a useful phrase applicable to a variety of situations.
Ms Erica @66 - Well put. I look at the other end, though. While I respect people's right to make their own individual choices, I'd feel a little happier about the state of the world if the men to whom you refer didn't have quite so many willing servicers. Not to pass a general value judgment; the proportions just seem a bit skewed.
Ms Kim and Ms Canuck - More thumbs up here for Ms Mirren. And while I cannot speak as a connoisseur of the female form, I feel impelled to slip in the remark that bikinis always make me think of Pauline Collins, from which I reflect on how interesting it is to view Shirley Valentine from both sides of 42. I believe Ms Collins has recently done a new television series; I hope I get a look at it.
@ 66 - Frugality sure has a role to play for some, perhaps many, but according to my own experience with straight-identified men, especially older ones (40+), the main points were:
1- How easy it is to find other men who are willing to have sex with you (a walk in the park in the evening, and there you go).
2- How eager these men actually are to have sex with you, even if you're not the hottest thing around (from what I hear, many women don't want to give BJ's, many need some form of seduction - something you don't want to get into if you're otherwise happily married - etc.)
3 - A prostitute may be very good at her job, but even if she is real cheap, you still KNOW she's doing it for the money, which kills it for many people.

Of course, those straight-identified men probably have enough of the bi in them to tolerate facial hair rubbing on their pubic area, but otherwise, they're pretty much straight. They've just figured out how to get what they want with the least possible amount of consequences.

@ 68 - In view of the above, I'd say that once they've come to terms with liking BJ's from other guys, they're the most appreciative of men, so even though it's thoroughly one-way, degradation doesn't enter into it (not saying this is always the case, but...). Sometimes they even surprise you (and themselves) by giving you a deep wet kiss and a big hug.

You might still ask yourself what I get out of it. Well, I like to suck dick. Isn't that enough in itself?
Ricardo, I think that's just it. I think the majority of women out there (not Slog sex freaks, I know, I know :) are simply not all that interested in giving blow jobs, I think they see it as a chore to finish, whereas, from what I've read and heard on Slog, men really want to do it, look forward to doing it, which has got to be half of the enjoyment factor for the guy getting one. Plus, I'd imagine that on average, men are just better at it.

vennominon, I can think of worse role models than Shirley Valentine:
"I'm on a new diet diet: Sex for breakfast, sex for lunch, and sex for dinner. I call it the F Plan."
Having had children, I know first hand how stress, hormones, lack of sleep, etc. can kill a libido. Although if it was only hormones, lack of sleep, etc., I would have thought it should have been temporary.
To be honest, your situation sounds very complicated!

Don't really know about the emotional primacy of motherhood part and it's effect, although my spouse did just as much care of the kids as me, so maybe he had as much emotional primacy of fatherhood and it balanced out. We were both dog tired and both had a drop in libido for a while.

From the complaints I've heard from women who are my age and past raising kids, there are a lot of guys who don't really care about their lady's pleasure. It's not my experience and I'm NOT saying it's always to blame - I'm just repeating what I hear. I just think it should be considered as one of the reasons for the sex drying up. I see a lot of blaming women for the sex drying up on this blog, and seems unfair to always put the blame on them. Sometimes yes, but sometimes no.

@ 78 - In my own personal experience, the enjoyment factor of the giver is really what makes the difference, not the actual technical skills.

I've received wonderful BJ's from beginners who were "doing it all wrong", but the look in their eyes was the biggest turn-on for me...

@72: You would be more convincing

Sorry to leave you unconvinced.

P.S. Is acknowledging that women's libidos often sink after kids tantamount to "blaming women's bodies"? I really hadn't thought of it that way.
Lissa@73: kisses :-)

Ricardo@77- I don't understand this: "those straight-identified men probably have enough of the bi in them to tolerate facial hair rubbing on their pubic area, but otherwise, they're pretty much straight. They've just figured out how to get what they want with the least possible amount of consequences."

I am not attracted to my vibrator, but it gets me off. An enthusiastic BJ (from anyone) for these straight guys is like that. It works. So - we can drop the "situational homosexuality is an act of desperation born of shitty circumstances" (ie, born of having a dried-up, bitter, withholding wife). A same-sex BJ isn't these guys' #1 choice. But it works. Fuck the labels and the blame.
@81 Obviously, this is a nosy question, so feel free to not answer, but, how does she see the problem? Does she wish she felt sexier and more like having sex--does she lament her lack of libido--or is she more like, "meh, it's not an issue for me"? Because if it's the latter, the problem is more about getting her to feel sexual again, not techniques or frequency or whatever. Just my personal experience speaking here, but until her head is in the game, her body won't be.
@81 instead of saying "our sex life isn't great, and the reasons for that are complicated" you say it wasn't complicated, there weren't two sides to the story, it's just that "she refused to be the focus." That's blaming her, or blaming her body. Most women's libidos can come back, with love plus some sort of wake-up call or spark of excitement. But maybe not with their husband, if there's too much resentment there. I don't want to blame you or her. I want to say - you two don't seem to be sexually compatible. Maybe with someone else, she could be sexually happy. Maybe with someone else, you could be happy. If she used to really love sex, maybe you can rekindle that. But if not, then what's there to build on?
@ 82 - Some, maybe many, straight men wouldn't be able to stand the touch of a rough beard (like mine), even closely shaved, anywhere on their body. For whatever reasons: it reminds them that they're with a man, it's not the type of skin that turns them on (or it actually turns them off immediately), etc. Some would be scared that they would turn gay. At any rate, they could never enjoy it.

Just as some, maybe many, gay men wouldn't be able to stand the touch of a soft, facial-hairless woman's skin. For whatever reasons: it reminds them that they're with a woman, it's not the type of skin that turns them on (or it actually turns them off immediately), etc. At any rate, they could never enjoy it.

That's definitely my case; I can kiss my female friends on the cheek, even on the lips, but that's because I know it's not sexual. I can give a massage to a woman or receive one. But if it were in a sexual context, well, it just wouldn't be sexual to me.

This goes way deeper than a relationship with a vibrator, which is an object - neutral, in a way, no matter what funny shape they gave it.

When I say that these men "have enough of the bi in them", it merely means that they've overcome that hurdle, or that never had it.

They enjoy getting a same-sex BJ, but let me correct you here, since I believe it IS their number one choice once they discover it. Why? Because it is ENTHUSIASTIC and EASY TO OBTAIN, simple as that. Many guys don't ask for much more. After all, everyone likes to be liked, and the defining characteristic of men as a gender, if I may generalize, is that they're lazy.

That doesn't preclude the fact that the rest of their sex life is heterosexual and that they identify as straight. And rightly so, IMNSHO.
@85 - LOL - I think women are just as lazy...
@ 86 - Well I can't really say, but in my experience, the average single woman's appartment is a lot cleaner than the average single man's appartment. Women win.

Do you support marriage rights for polygamists?
Oh, boy! More it's the husband's fault v. it's the wife's fault. Now that we are past the sensitive sharings of Jenesasquatch and Slog regs, the story is stagnant.

I'm sure the basic dynamics of hetero-bed-death have been covered thoroughly from both sides. All that is left is Seandr and EricaP haggling over who is at fault most.

Can't we just agree that spouses ignore each other's needs at the peril of their sex life, and that either or both can be at fault in any given relationship? 'Nuff said?


Do you support an over 9000 power rating for Goku?
@89 - I agree with you. Either there's enough blame to go around or the two people are incompatible.

What aspect of BILL's letter would you prefer to be discussing? Or are you just masochistic, forcing yourself to read all these letters which bore you to tears?

Great advice.
Just a wee bit masochistic...but come on the guy blew his brother-in-law. Surely that merits pride of place.
@93 - and what do you want to say about the fact that he blew his brother-in-law? If you want to discuss something, bring it up in a clear enough way so that readers see your point and can grapple with it. There's room for more than one conversation to happen alongside each other. Don't sit back and wait for people to discuss the SLLOTD in just the right way to suit your taste. Seriously, the rest of us aren't here to entertain you.
While I am entertained by these threads, EricaP, I can see now that the rest of you are not actually responsible for my amusement, and are at perfect liberty to have any number of conversations on any topic you should choose. I fully retract my comments @89.

Nevertheless, I do think that the wisest course would be to sit back and wait for Ricardo to discuss blowing straight guys--in just the right way to suit my taste.
@95 I'm with you there. Mmmm.

Do you support brojobs for Period Troll?
@ 22- dam strait! If it does become a family issue the “blower” in this scenario will end up being characterized as the instigator and as a predatory sexual deviant who ruined the two relationships… B-In-Law will cry “He got me drunk and took advantage of me- I didn’t know what I was doing” blah, blah, etc. etc… It’s a lose, lose situation. Agreed Dan.
one-sided, straight' relationship...tho its a 'thrill' of having seduced a str8 man, it WONT go further than that...tho there IS exceptions..

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