and remember to be decent to everyoneall of the time.
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Stick with electric buses, it works, proven and cheaper. Lets hold off on light rail until we can afford more tunnels or elevated platforms.
If we killed the Tunnel Of Tax Wasting and chose a more sensible Surface Plus Transit or Rebuilt Viaduct, then we'd be able to leverage the remaining tax authority to expand, of course, but otherwise we can't authorize that much debt due to the required 520 rebuild and corridor, plus the Mercer Millionaires Mess. We'll be over our Constitutional bonding authority and running on fumes at that point, with an electorate in Seattle that will be very upset with $10 roundtrip tolls and $10,000 per household in additional property taxes, meaning nothing will get built.
Best to just kill the Deeply Borrowed Tunnel, then.
Becuz there aren't that MANY of "THE PEOPLES".
Which gets back to the "do you build transit where housing will be or where it already is" debate. Land and planning is cheaper (about 50-70 pct of total cost, less operations) if you do it before instead of after.
But that requires forethought.
For seconds, the traffic volume IS there; the people doing this study ACTUALLY MEASURED THE TRAFFIC, rather than relying on imaginary bullshit like you.
For thirds, removing parking lanes is DISASTROUS and KILLS NEIGHBORHOODS as streets are converted into expressways. Take the parking lanes off of 45th and every single business in Wallingford shuts down a week later. Parked cars are a buffer between pedestrians and speeding traffic; remove them, and the peds instantly disappear.
GET A FUCKING CLUE, YOU FUCKING MORON.
45th is THE key east-west route for the northern half of the city, and maybe the most important E-W street anywhere, in a city that has hardly any of them. But it's also a key retail strip destination, for almost its entire length. E-W is the direction it's profoundly difficult to travel in this city (I can get to the airport in 12 minutes, but it takes 45 to get to Sand Point), and thus the one that could benefit most from transit. Even if it's not a straight U-Village-to-Shilshole run, some segments absolutely make sense.
You on the other hand never do.
You probably think Freelard is over in West Seattle, and have no idea how many mini parks we've built north of the Ship Canal, you clueless dweeb.
YOU are complete bullshit. You are a fucking toilet of a human being.
Shove your miniparks up your ass, Will. You always want to change the subject when people call you on your bullshit but it's NOT WORKING. FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU.
Gondola. Cheap, fast and easy to build, easily zips over water, hills, and built-up urban areas. Never have to wait for a bus. Connect it to SoDo light rail station from West Seattle, and you're done. Save real rail for places with real demand.
If this proposal is supposed to serve poor communities, how come there are almost no lines of any color in those communities? It's fine to say "White spaces on this map don’t mean existing transit services isn’t [sic] already there" but the fact is they AREN'T already there -- the white spaces in the south of the city are underserved. E-W is underserved. There is no consideration of possible routes that might yield good results in the future but are not currently served AT ALL -- like West Seattle-Columbia City. Columbia City already got screwed by transit once -- their light rail stop is a mile away -- now they're going to get screwed again?
Go downtown, my son, go downtown. That's the only routes we have, the only routes we know, the only routes we'll serve in the future.
It's south of downtown where there's no relief for the crosstown traveler.
The gondolas would be potentially helpful not for the lack of waiting but rather the right of way advantage, which will surely come in handy when heavy downtown traffic in large part due to toll advoidance of the new 99 back up the buses, including the so-callled palliative to West Seattle transit woes--Rapid Ride.
Fnarf is right about the lack of E-W transit. Columbia City has some great bars - as does Georgetown - but I live in West Seattle and don't drive when I drink, so I almost never go.
40th - gets tangled in a clusterfuck of intertwined stop signs under I-5
45th - impossible traffic around the clock from Ballard to U Village
50th - only goes a part of the way
55th - does not exist
60th - does not exist
65th - impossibly interrupted by Aurora and Green Lake
70th - does not exist
75th - does not exist west of I-5
80th - useless as an arterial
85th - does not exist east of I-5
90th - does not exist
92nd - useful "secret" route for Aurora to just E of I-5 only
100th - does not exist
Holman/105th/Northgate - solid route but not straight
110th - does not exist
115th - does not exist
120th - does not exist
125th - interrupted by Haller Lake, must use 130th
130th - does not exist
135th - does not exist
140th - does not exist
145th - city limits
These are car routes, but buses follow car routes. That's THREE seriously usable E-W routes in over a HUNDRED BLOCKS -- 45th, 85th, and Holman/Northgate. And none of the rail routes are E-W. The rest is cosmetic stuff like bus bulbs, which are nice but don't come close to solving the problem.
The south end is considerably worse off than this.
The city has spend fifty years exacerbating this problem by closing off alternate routes and diverting all traffic to those few arterial routes because of single-family neighborhoods. In addition to pure east-west travel there is a paucity of diagonal routes. The damage done by I-5 is still felt up and down the line. If you don't know how to navigate the handful of choke points through which everything must pass, cross-town traffic is simply not possible.
Some neighborhoods, like Beacon Hill and Columbia City, are ONLY realistically accessible from the north or the south. Neighborhoods like Delridge, Highland Park, and South Park are barely accessible from ANY direction.
And once again you forgot the Nose of the Troll route, which is feasable.
And The Stranger, for about THE ONLY FRIGGING TIME IN ITS EXISTENCE, actually endorsed this honest guy!
Anyway, I just want to know how much of this will be underground? Certainly seems like they are forever doing Rube Goldberg-like engineering (a comical perversion of true engineering) and unnecessarily putting everything under the frigging ground -- at ENORMOUS cost, and enormous expenditure of energy?
Building an at-grade slow light rail, under-the-frigging-ground is a complete botch of real engineering design. You build the high speed stuff underground tubular, and put an above-ground monorail system in place.
The developers have screwed up everything!
Say, fnarf, aren't you married to an Asian-American woman who used to be at Microsoft's hedge fund over in Kirkland?
But this plan is going to address three or four crosstown corridors -- don't forget Denny, and a bunch in the CD that aren't even on this map -- and make improvements to them. How extensive those improvements are remains to be seen, but they're there.
I don't think you're arguing that the north/south corridors should get less even though they score higher on density and demand metrics, but that's what's coming across in your comment. What the dark colors indicate is likelihood of heavy investment, like a surface rail line. What 45th needs is a tunnel, something that will have to wait for state action to be at all affordable.
We also need to do something about Denny, but it seems too short to support light rail. Maybe take a lane to dedicate to buses?
Downtown-Ballard is not as important. Downtown-West Seattle is not as important. West Seattle to Columbia City is intriguing but should wait for the 45th and Queen Anne light rail lines.
Major problem is the federal waterway crossing aspect.
@29, TUNNEL? Under 45th? You're bonkers. Train right down the middle. What it REALLY needs, of course, is a goddamn monorail, which wouldn't even have taken a lane away, but that dream is dead.
@31, I'd bring that light rail on 45th further west, to 24th. That intersection of Market & 15th is a wasteland and always will be (or as long as Safeway and Walgreens exist). The place you're trying to get to, the retail center, is west.
The advantage of Ballard-Downtown isn't Ballard-Downtown per se but the multitude of connections it opens up. But if the 45th line made a turn, and headed downtown, then you'd have a loop -- and something useful. Or turn it the other way, to the north. Lots of possibilities.
I would think the problem with Denny is steepness, not shortness. And Denny, for all its shortcomings, is almost usable as a bus route. I'd look elsewhere (south) first.
Elevated would also be fine, but the visual impact police would slaughter it.
I don't know how someone whose persona rests entirely on a projection of infallibility can get away with saying something as asinine as "Train right down the middle [of 45th]."
Um, yeah. Right down the middle of a 2-lane road. Then right down the middle of the 18% slope of Phinney Ridge. Genius!
The only way rapid transit is ever going to happen in the east-west, 45th-Market corridor is in the form of a tunnel, diverging from the under-construction light rail in the U District, boring deep beneath Wallingford, and emerging from the side of Phinney Ridge to run on the surface into Ballard (or, even better, continue in a cheaper cut-and-cover tunnel for that last mile).
And despite your screaming at Martin ("TUNNEL? Under 45th? You're bonkers.") and your ensuing demagoguery, that very corridor has already been approved for study under the 2008 Sound Transit 2 vote. Apparently, even the profoundly anti-urban Sound Transit board gets this one better than you.
And Martin @41:
I know that Fnarf is charismatic. I know that he succeeds in projecting authority on many topics. But you know better than him on this one. Why let this particular piece of bullshit slide?