Phelps and his clan are great for publicity.
why is it on fathers day? Cienna did you dad touch your clit?
You two, (and aardvark) need to be there.
I hate to break it to them, but even were they able to "reclaim" the word "slut", society can make up new derogatory terms faster than you can reclaim or sanitize them.
I want more details about the when and where of the Phelps protest. Their protests are always a blast.
this is disturbing.

@3 buy my plane ticket and i'll buy you dinner.

i still maintain, and this is my only point, "victims of sexual violence bear [partial] burden of rape prevention by dressing less provocatively"
@6, Why are women raped in Iran?
@7 listen douche, im making a very specific point. im not talking about all fucking rape asswipe. im talking about girls that dress and act like sluts and complain about unwanted attention. showing that booty off at a club and complain about getting your ass grabbed? showin the goods off in public and dont like the catcalls? girls that dress like sluts (which i like) are inviting attention. make a relevant point to that and i'll be happy to discuss. throw me under the bus without even understanding, then i just dont care.
@6 OK asshole. When I was raped, I was wearing my underwear, my navy running shorts underneath a pair of cargo shorts, a tank top, two t-shirts and a hoodie. How less provocatively could I Have dressed, you ignorant prick? What someone wears has ZERO to do with whether or not they become a victim of a sexual crime.

Continue with that moronic attitude and women won't dress like sluts anymore. Don't like that? Stop treating women like shit.

Your attitude is so obviously bitter resentment over no woman giving you the time of day. You're such a fucking cliche, it's not even funny.
@10, suck on wet dog shit.

i'll also add, character attacks against my argument don't count. i have great relationships with women, i love them, have a great girl etc etc. this is a rational argument. if you want to just dismiss it because you think im a sicko, or dumb, fine, have at it. my point still stands.
@8 - How I dress is no one's business but my own, and in NO WAY gives any type of consent to being touched by anyone, but ESPECIALLY NOT COMPLETE STRANGERS!!!!! I have received the same insulting, objectifying treatment from men whether dressed in a knee-length skirt and top, or in jeans and a windbreaker. There is simply no excuse for it.
RE: The phelps folks showing up - they thrive on attention. If we ignore them; do not respond in any way to their taunts, they will not get the attention they want. In this way, we can render them invisible.
Now to get more productive about this. I think their presence needs to be turned into a fundraiser for Northwest Network...
I want #6 to answer my question.
Big fucking deal. Stop giving them media attention. It's what they crave. Don't cover it. Ignore them.
@15, see @8.

@12.. do you dress provocatively?
Good, the slut walk is fucking stupid anyways, dumb bitches. I'm all for free speech for both sides, but they're both dumb.
@aardvark, Hasn't this been explained to you a number of times? Rape is about power, not sex. Women are raped wearing all sorts of different clothing, from the "slutty" (whatever that means, the term is so elastic) to the conservative. Many men believe they are entitled to women's bodies regardless of appearance. Some of these men catcall, some assault. It has nothing to do with how women dress. Allow me to link you to a blog in which women share their stories about being catcalled. No, it's not rape, but it falls on the same spectrum of behavior, and it happens to women regardless of what they are wearing.
@17 - I told you how I dress; what does that have to do with it? How I choose to dress is NOT an invitation to you, or any other male, to offer me explicit descriptions of my body and what you think you would do with it, and MOST CERTAINLY isn't an invitation to touch me. For any reason. Touching me without my express consent is assault.
On the all-important question of what to wear to Slutwalk Seattle: in solidarity with the woman attacked by the director of the IMF, a Sofitel chambermaid's uniform.
Aardvark, this is the reason you have trouble with women. You don't listen.
Women, we aren't telling you that you can't dress suggestively, just don't come crying when something bad happens because you had your tits out. Sure, rape happens if you're wearing something un-sexy. It happens a lot more when you're dressed like a SLUT. You shouldn't want to be a slut anyways, you give yourselves the stigmas.
@19, now that's more like it. power? yes, sex is about power. i agree with you on this. i love the power of a beautiful woman. she can make grown men cry. i do not agree that catcalling amounts to assault. flaunting sex is a very powerful thing for women, and i think sometimes they dont know how dangerous that power is. she has the control one minute, another minute someone might try to control that. it is what it is.
@22 you dont even know what you are talking about
Aardvark: eat ants.
@24, You're a bit frightening. And an imbecile.
Boy oh boy, this thread degenerated into name-calling but quick!

Ok, so first, everyone should read this: Fred Phelps is a Con Man. The most accurate analysis of WBC I've yet seen.

Second, "Slut" means someone, specifically a woman, who is perceived to have "a lot" of sex. This stance is at complete odds with human beings and human history. (Nearly) ALL PEOPLE LIKE SEX and will have as much of it as they are comfortable with. There is zero wrong with women and men enjoying equal amounts of sex. In fact, a clear-eyed analysis of human history and anthropology suggests that women have a greater capacity for sex than do men. In this context, men calling women's "sluts" sounds more like jealousy than anything else.

The fundamental point is: (@4) Why shame someone for having and enjoying sex? To the goal of removing THAT stigma, I call myself a slut (I'm a man), and I call my friends sluts too. Yes people will come up with new derogatory words, but the greater point is changing the perception of sexuality as a whole.

THIRDLY, to @8 aardvark's point: "showing that booty off at a club and complain about getting your ass grabbed? ". No one should have to contend with getting their ass grabbed by some unknown person. Anywhere. Period.

Do women dress for attention? Yes. There's nothing wrong with that. Do you enjoy looking at women who dress all sexy? I'ma guess you do. I certainly do. However, the essential point is that there is a line between enjoying looking at someone's booty, and being creepy about it & willing to engage in actions that assume you have the power to do whatever you want to another person's body.

Do you want YOUR ass or crotch grabbed by random people whenever you are out in public?

Do as you will be done by, no?

It is possible to be a man in this society and NOT assume you have the right to touch a woman in a club, on the street, or anywhere without first asking her permission. Society benefits greatly when women feel safer. Want to fondle a bum? Ask first. And respect the answer. I do, and it works delightfully.

You can look and appreciate and flirt in respectful ways. You have to learn what actions are perceived as "creepy" (they are precursors to predatory activity). Don't know what these things are? Ask a woman.
@28 i appreciate your post and i dont disagree.

i will repost @23:
"Women, we aren't telling you that you can't dress suggestively, just don't come crying when something bad happens because you had your tits out. Sure, rape happens if you're wearing something un-sexy. It happens a lot more when you're dressed like a SLUT. "

i do think slutwalk is a joke for all those over sensitive women out there to feel better for themselves.
@24 - Wow dude, you true colors come shining though.

power? yes, sex is about power. i agree with you on this.

That's NOT what samktg was saying, at all. RAPE is about power, about disrespecting another person and hurting them without their consent. In that context sex is a TOOL of power. It's not the other way around.

SEX is a human expression of intimacy and/or procreation. Sex doesn't have to involve power at all. You can play with power imbalances during sex, but it's not inherent in the act itself.
No, Aardvark. A woman should be able to dress as sluttily as she likes without her clothes being treated as an invitation to touch her. The notion that she is saying she "wants it" and is therefore giving implicit consent to any man who decides he wants it too is bullshit.
@29 - Sure, rape happens if you're wearing something un-sexy. It happens a lot more when you're dressed like a SLUT.

I really don't think you have looked into the facts of the situation very closely at all.

"Something bad" happening is the SOLE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PERSON MAKING SOMETHING BAD HAPPEN. If I saw you jogging down the street with no shirt on and only a sexy, sexy running short, and I pulled you into the bushes and raped your ass... THEN I AM COMPLETELY AT FAULT FOR RAPING YOU. Why would YOU bear any responsibility at all for being raped by me?

OR would you?
Aardvark, you can't tell anyone how to dress!! You must be the type of person that says women are "asking for it." So you believed the llocals when they said that 11 year old in Texas was asking for because she dressed provactively?! What if a man just came up and started grabbing your crotch or ass because you were wearing something that showed off that area? You know, it's fun to dress up with your girlfriends sometimes, and I am not giving up that right because men can't control themselves. Fucking accountability, that's all I ask. Plus, like they were saying above, women get raped all the time in the middle east and they are completely covered. Stop blaming the victim. It isn't helpful and makes you sound like an mysoginistic asshole, which you claim you're not. Prove it.
@30, true colors? ok. i think most sex is about power. love is another story. im all for legal prostitution (surprise) because i think (however simplistically) that is gives woman an avenue of power over men. i love sex workers for the same reasons. yes, power.

@31, it's called dressing provocatively for a reason. im not going to change that, and neither is slutwalk. its human nature.
@33 you know, i have gotten harassed and grabbed by men. IM NOT TELLING ANYONE HOW TO DRESS! im not grabbing anyone. i am saying be careful, what you wear can provoke an attack and that wont ever change.
@29 Please cite credible documentation that rape "....happens a lot more when you're dressed like a SLUT." You are blowing smoke out your ass, dude.
@15: He won't.
I already told him that I was wearing jeans and a sweatshirt when I was raped, and he responded by blowing me kisses. He has put his fingers in his ears and is going "la la la" when confronted with the fact that girls in Iran get raped even if they're allllllll covered up.
And that's kind of interesting. Because they use the same argument he does:
"girls that dress and act like sluts and complain about unwanted attention”
It's only different the degree of the skin they show.

Rape apologists like aardvark are, I think, afraid to confront the fact that rape is the fault of the rapist FULL STOP.
In aardvark’s case I’m not sure I could say exactly why that is, but there are a number of possibilities.

It could be because blaming the victim makes the universe less random, and that somehow the women in his life are protected since they would never put themselves in that situation. The fact that you and I or old women, or 11year old girls, or women in burkas still get raped pokes a big scary hole in that.

It could be that he feels threatened by the idea of female sexual autonomy, and that he’s afraid some day he might be accused of being a rapist because he isn’t sure where the line is any more.

He says he has a good relationship with women, but maybe deep down he may be afraid that that isn’t true. That somehow, women are always trying to trick him and make him look stupid. That those “slutty” outfits are a trap to make him go hubba, hubba just so that the women wearing them can humiliate him by rejecting him.

And if they think they can get away with that, then getting raped is what they deserve.

Oh and aardvark, I know you’re crushing on KellyO. Think she’d be interested in a rape apologist? Cuz I sincerely doubt it.
Be a decent human being aardvark. Rape is the responsibility of the rapist. Stop defending them.
@34, What is "dressed provocatively"? The term is so nebulous, it is practically meaningless. Whatever a woman wears, someone is going to consider her as "dressed provocatively".
@37, im not crushing on kellyo, shes too skinny from what i can tell. i like me some curvy women. big curves. i also like art and photography, so maybe that has something to do with it, or maybe you just want to think pussy is all i care about as a man. anyway, suck it.
@aardvark and others: I absolutely dress to get attention sometimes. When I go out dancing it's usually in some sort of short skirt based outfit selected for how sexy I look/feel in it. It's provocative and men react to it, but what I expect from GROWN FUCKING MEN is the ability to approach/come on to me in a respectful manner as I would them. No this is not an invitation to grab my ass or tell me all about my tits, even though you may be thinking about it, (which is fine, I'm human too) what a man who isn't a total douche would do is introduce himself/ask me to dance/buy me a drink etc. You know, not act like an anti social adolescent twerp. And you know what? some people are more forward than that. I have been straight up propositioned by strange men who absolutely backed off when I declined. That's fine, and I kind of admire the ability to be that forward and also gracefully accept rejection. It's about respecting boundaries and I reserve the right to drop kick any mother fucker who wants to step over mine.
@35 "i am saying be careful, what you wear can provoke an attack and that wont ever change."

I am saying, it will change when men take responsibility for themselves and their actions. Until such time as that may happen, I offer this Bruce Lee quote to all the misygonistic bastards out there:
"Be careful; if you touch me, I'll touch you back."
@39: Interesting that you only address that one tiny aspect of my post aardvark, and respond with vulgarity and an unasked for description of your sexual tastes. ( Oh and fun fact! “Suck it” was one of the things my rapist said to me as he held a hunting knife to my throat)
Protip: skinny girls and big curvy girls won’t want to talk to you about photography or anything else if you make it clear that you defend rape.
Stop it.
42 you are a crazy lady. im done with you, as you should be with me. kiss kiss!
@43, That ain't how it comes across to everyone else.
@43: You are afraid aardvark. Afraid of looking in the mirror, afraid of seeing the world women have to live in, and afraid of me for making you do it.
Rape is the responsibility of the rapist.
Stop defending rape.
Be a decent human being.
Thank you, Olive @ 40.

I'd like to repeat the story about how, when I worked in construction, I got cat-called all the time - not from the workers, who knew and respected me, but from average Joes on the street. At the time I was wearing steel-toed boots, looses jeans, a tee-shirt with a bright orange vest over it (in summer) or a vest over a flannel shirt over a tee-shirt (in the autumn) and a hard hat. I am surprised that they could even tell I was female. (It used to really upset the construction workers I worked with, too. More than once I thought one of my crew was going to go after one the guys who yelled 'work it, baby' at me. Of course my boss was also a sexist asshole, so I got hassled by him, too.)

Guys who cat-call, grab ass, etc. know that it is the only way they can get the attention of a woman. They are such losers that no woman would pay attention to them otherwise. They mostly do it to impress the men around them.
if a woman wants to appeal to a strangers on a sexual level, that is NOT THE SAME THING as inviting sexual violence! i can't fucking believe we are still having this conversation in 2011!! going out for an evening looking sexy, (looking for sex, even!) is NOT the issue. LOOKING FOR SEX DOES NOT MEAN LOOKING TO GET RAPED. you know why? because for the thousandth fucking time, SEX DOES NOT EQUAL RAPE.

aardvark, if this is too confusing for you, you clearly have boundary issues that you should look into resolving, for the good of everyone who is in the unfortunate position of having to put up with you.
44 to all the other crazy ladies? listen, ill be your boogeyman, have at it. im trying not .. to.. post.. but this is just too much fun. pretend im a troll or something and just ignore me. oh sweet mary delicious virgin mother of jesus....
46, 47, its human nature. sorry.
raping people is human nature? really?
Keep digging.
@43 a ha! i've found where you're misled.

does dressing provocatively increase one's susceptibility to sexual assault? perhaps. the real question is, SHOULD this be the case? this is the current state of things, but is it the IDEAL state of things? you didn't answer this question because it's moot to you - you believe that it'll never happen anyway so who cares? well suspend your disbelief for a moment and read the following with the idea in mind that it's possible.

slutwalk is about imagining a world where women can do what they please without fear of sexual assault or rape (and presumably without the slurs, catcalls, and double standard policing) - have the amount of sex that they want, wear the clothes that they want, etc. guess who lives in this world currently? men.

this imagined world isn't asking much - just that women be afforded some of the privileges we as men already receive.

aardvark, do you agree this world would be better for women (i believe it would be better for everyone, but that's beside the point here)? if so, are you still against it? how come?

if you're against it because, as you said, it will "never happen," that the status quo is "human nature," imagine, for a moment, that it could happen. would you support helping to create that world or would you be against it?

if you would, and have some reasons why you believe slutwalk doesn't do that, let's hear them.

if you wouldn't, well...
@ 48: You are not my boogeyman aardvark.
For all the panting dickheads:
-- a toddler in the Congo: provocatively dressed?
-- a prisoner being tortured: provocatively dressed?
-- the grandmother raped as you read this: provocatively dressed?
i agree with you 52, and i agree with the normativity of the proposition. however, im rather cynical. i dont think this is one of those things that will change, and i see slutwalk as a sea of frantic over-sensitive women bitching and moaning. not very persuasive. i dont think it will have an effect. i do think discussions like this are a product of the slutswalk, so if thats good, then great. discussions are nice.
54 false equivalency.
@55: Be the change you wish to see in the world. Stop defending rape.
"a sea of frantic over-sensitive women bitching and moaning?"

keep talking to us about how you love and respect women, aardvark, because we so totally believe you.
Abner Louima: provocatively dressed?
Newly jailed: provocatively dressed?
POW: provocatively dressed?
All, as in #54, as one woman every minute in the Congo, raped.
@56: No it isn't. Rape is rape. It makes no difference what the victim did or didn't do, wore or didn't wear. Stop defending rape.
@55, You're hysterical.
One hundred years ago women showed no skin (save for face and hands) out in public, and barely more than that during stage performances (variety acts, in the earlier days of burlesque).
Today women are free to dress how they like and not be ARRESTED in the street. Nor are they stoned to death for dressing improperly. They can even wear trousers (shock!). The bikini is only ~60 years old. Things change. More often than not claims of "human nature" are actually societal standards... they are not written in our DNA, they are culturally reinforced behaviours. Which is to say they ARE changeable.

Slutwalk is one part of changing those behaviours. Another part of change is men taking full responsibility for their actions.

Oh btw mr aardvark, you never responded to my thought-experiment about you getting raped. If that happened would it be your fault? Or mine? Why don't men get raped more often when they go shirtless in public? Isn't that provocative?
#8, you are such an asshole.

I was attacked while wearing skimpy clothes, because I had just been to see the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Maybe that guy attacked me because I was wearing "slutty" clothes (and Magenta's crazy eye makeup) but it doesn't make it even partially my fault. I have the right to go to Rocky Horror wearing whatever I want. I could walk down the street naked and it would (and should) still be illegal for a man to try to rape me. Of course, I got hit on wearing these clothes. I expected that. That's different from someone forcibly touching you.

A good rule of thumb for you, if you have trouble distinguishing what's appropriate behavior, is don't touch a woman you don't know without permission, no matter what she's wearing.
-- The cleaning woman in the Sofitel Hotel in NYC -- provocatively dressed?
-- Ned Beatty in 'Deliverance' -- provocatively dressed?
-- Catholic nuns in Guatemala -- provocatively dressed?
I guess some people just can't tell the difference. Because of this, certain common-sense precautions should be taken, such as those mentioned by Mehlman @59. This won't change, and that's not the point. Just as it would never be wise to walk down the street waving all your cash in your fist or laying down in traffic, women should not leave their drinks unattended at bars, get in cars with men they don't know, etc, etc, etc. We know all this.

But clothing? Looking like a "slut?" Looking like we want sex? NOT an invitation to violence!!

Can't you see, aardvark? People like you are the ones with the problem, and women are the ones with the consequences. You can't control yourself, so the burden is on women not to lure you into temptation. What if she desires to tempt a man who isn't a rapist into having mutually agreed upon consensual sex with her? You are saying she can't do this if she wants to avoid being raped by you or some other psycho with poor impulse control. THAT is the mentality we are fighting against.
It's "human nature" that some men will rape, so we should try and foster a culture where women share partial-culpability for their rape? Is that right? Because that will somehow magically lead to a culture less tolerant of rape? How?

That isn't realism, homes. That is the same reasoning behind burkas, that men can't control themselves so it's up to the women not to tempt us. As a guy I find it fucking demeaning. I have the self-control not to rape anyone all be myself, as it turns out. We all do. And that's why the only one to blame for a rape is the rapist. Close the book, game over.
67 have you heard the car stereo analogy, holmes?

id like to congratulate myself and everyone involved for fostering such a healthy discussion on the topic.
@55 if you'd rather live in a better world than the one we currently have, you have to do something about it. otherwise you don't believe in it. honestly, try listening to what some of these other commenters are accusing you of - get introspective and ponder whether any of it might be true.

if you aren't interested in helping to change something bad, logic would argue that you don't believe it's really that bad. criticizing efforts to change it actually does the opposite - it defends the bad thing and helps perpetuate its existence.

i'm not saying you have to support slutwalk. but if you believe, as you said, that an ideal world to live in would be one where women can wear whatever they want without fear of violent reprisal, then say so and act on those beliefs. unequivocally. at present, you don't sound like at your heart you're a rape apologist. but the things you say make you sound like one.

be clear with what you believe. say straight out: 'women should be able to wear what they want without fear of sexual assault or rape.' you can follow up by saying, 'hey, but that's not the world we live in so be careful out there ladies!' if you want, but say the first part first. make it clear.
#68, you shouldn't congratulate yourself for anything. This was not a discussion. You said something untrue and offensive and everyone took you to task for your sexism. You just got your ass handed to you and you don't even know it.
69, you are good. i like to catcall, to drool over a hot female. publicly. i think this is ok. women can ignore this. im not taking responsibility for anything else. but if people want to blame me for the rest, i dont agree.
70 hey baby. kiss kiss
@68, And you have had it thoroughly demonstrated to you how that is a bad analogy. Really, you can stop digging, you could have stopped when you reached six feet.
@68: This is not a healthy discussion which you have fostered. You are not our peer. This is a group of decent, thoughtful human beings reacting with horror to an outstanding demonstration of the banality of evil in action. Rape apology makes it easier for rapists to rape. You are making it a safer world for rapists.
Stop it.

#67, it makes me so happy that guys like you get it! If you were here, I'd give you a big hug.
Slog really needs to charge a fee to post.
76 speech shouldnt be free?

if you leave your car in a bad area, under the viaduct, on yesler bridge, and leave plainly valuable items in it, are you not responsible at all if it gets broken into? well, those are not impersonal forces. your stuff was violated. but you were stupid to leave your shit there.
@77: Now that is a false equivalence!
i can't have this "conversation" anymore. i need a shower just from knowing you exist, aardvark.

are you by any chance the same guy who said to me once, "hey, you're pretty hot ... if i were a rapist, i'd totally rape you"? because you definitely sound like you could be.

sadly, you'll never know what a pig you are. (no disrespect to pigs).
... and aardvark cements his position as a true Slog bottom feeder. Have fun on the same tier Bailo and the recently-banned period troll occupy.
Treacle, I just read your comment @28. You are 100% right and awesome.
I really want a framed GOD HATES SLUTS poster for my bedroom. Oh God, yes, I do.
p.s. Please don't feed the trolls. Thanks.
aardvark's response to me (and everyone else) shows that he is either a troll or an unapologetic or ignorant sexist, unfortunately, and isn't worth communicating with any longer. bummer! :(
@84: He's afraid.
REGARDLESS of whether it's a good idea to dress provocatively, rape is 100% the fault of the rapist. A friend of mine was raped a few months ago, by some sleaze she met online and didn't vet properly. Was it stupid of her to go on a date alone with a guy she didn't really know? Sure. Is it her fault she got raped? No, not at all.
Unfortunately, she was underage at the time, and her family has blamed her for it, declined to press charges (based on evidence being a little shaky), and sent her to therapy camp.

@77: Speech is free. Websites cost money. You're on the intellectual level of Sarah Palin here; she too confused freedom of speech with the right to say whatever whenever in whatever medium.
@77, Right back to the beginning of the thread. You are operating on the assumption that rape is about sex. No, rape is about power, it just so happens to be that sex is the tool used to demonstrate that power. If rape were about sex, full body coverings like the niqab, chador or burka would be effective methods of staving off the hands of rapists.

Quite frankly, your repeated use of the car stereo analogy is repugnant. You believe that assault victims bear even the slightest responsibility for having been assaulted? That's fucked up. I hope I never meet you IRL, the kind of person you would have to be to espouse those views makes you creepy (that you enjoy catcalling makes me fear the worst). You are an embarrassment to our gender.
Stealing a car stereo is nothing compared to having something forced INSIDE of you against your will. By mocking these women who have been through such atrocities is truly horrible, and regardless if you're are just trolling, you have gone too far. YOu have no idea what it's like to be afraid to walk down a street or by a group of drunk assholes at night that 'regardless of how you dress,' harrass you. You don't get it and never will. You have gone too far at I really can't believe you would write *kiss, kiss.* I really thought you were just being reactionary, but apparently you are a really horrible person. If you really thought women were your equals as human beings, you would not mock their trauma.
I really appreciate your comment, Roadflare.

Please just totally ignore the Westboro people. Give them no evidence that you see that they are there.

(Alternatively, get them to go and protest the Lake Union Streetcar).
Can we ban aardvark now? I'd really like to be secure in knowing that the Slog doesn't invite misogynist rape apologists to our community.
This thread makes my sad.

I pity you, aardvark. There is always a reason for abusive actions, but never an excuse. Rape is about humiliation, not sex. And, I know that this will make no difference to you, but I was wearing a track suit, no makeup, no shower, hair in a ponytail. Why you think I should take some responsibility for the actions of that man, I can't fathom. And, I wonder if you could look me in the eye and tell me that it was my fault. Only you know that answer.
whats up w free speech? so what if someone disagrees with you. its a blog. i hate a point thats unpopular but popular enough. boo hoo.
@91: There's no place to report trolls, which is absolutely infuriating, because plenty of homophobe Christian "meninists" hate everyone here and have no intentions of doing anything but being douchebags.
@93: Fuck off. First amendment doesn't give you the right to post everywhere on private sites.
@92: Oh Kim, I so wish that we didn’t have this thing in common. Much love to you.
its not hate speech. im simply stating that a woman dressed provocatively is semi responsible for drawing attention to herself. nothing about iran, people here whove had bad shit happen, etc. sloggers disagree with me. its an emotional issue. i get it. its a complicated world its not soblack and white.
aardvark, you're either a really determined troll, or you desperately need to learn when to fold. You're wrong. You're being a chauvinist in a way that's insulting to both sexes. Nobody thinks you're deliberately mean or a rapist; you're just, for whatever reason, standing behind your ignorance instead of just manning the fuck up and saying, "Oh! I didn't realize that."

Children are defensive. Adults learn. Grow up.

Or hey, maybe you are just a troll, in which case, well done. You made a bunch of people kinda mad. Can't you just go play WoW or watch porn like normal people with too much time on their hands?
@97: But that is exactly the same logic they use in Iran. The only difference is how much skin they consider to be provocative. That's it.
Stop being a rape apologist.
@96 Same to you, Lissa.
@98 i need to learn when to fold. i disagree with the rest, its not ignorance, i get it, but ill leave it there. those other things may be true about me, ill let everyone make up their own mind, but yes, i need to fold. please i want to. folding now. xx everyone!

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