MrPhonz, you said that Stella had gone back to Stanley...

Has she returned to the group yet, complaining about Stanley and searching for the limelight again? If so, now's the time for you to switch her oncoming train onto another line and avoid the train wreck. It's a lot better to observe the carnage than to be in the middle of it.

You'll come out of it shaking your head and saying "Why did I ever put myself in that mess in the first place?"
Dear Dan Savage,

I have a relationship conundrum that's so complex it'd take me over 2,500 words to describe properly. What should I do?

Too Lazy Too Type It All Out


@ LW Dude...I was in a situation like that once. The whole thing. Even the "what is wrong with me!?! drama." Good news is, the solution is easy.

1. Forget all this bullshit, forget about all these pathetic people.
2. Go find some completely different girl you like the looks of, have a conversation, and ask her out.
3. Repeat as necessary.

Success is guaranteed.
#39 I'd hit that.... hell I wouldn't even call you sluttish for stripping in front of me.
@ 171, 178

Yeah, the words have probably changed, but the concept is the same. Some guy I went on a few dates with/screwed, had no intention of committing to, but was more than a one night stand.

To me, the word "boyfriend" implies at least some level of commitment, even if it's minor. Like, I'd introduce my Boyfriend to my crazy family and/or mother. I would not introduce Random Dude I'm Seeing/Fucking to my crazy family and/or mother. That's a horror I would only inflict upon someone that I knew really had feelings for me. lol

And I did not meet him on the internet, if that makes any difference to you. ;)
The bits I read, including turning down sex when he was finally offered some, and then making excuses about why he did so, remind me a WHOLE lot of a dear old friend, who was a complete drama case until he finally came out of the closet.
Oh boy, do I know this story. I was the background friend, rather than the boyfriend. My job was to be in the audience and pity the poor helpless heroine who kept chasing drama and then complaining about it. She was selfish in many ways and a terrible friend.

I complained to other friends about how she was a terrible friend. They told me to quit my yapping and either cut out the drama (end the friendship) or simply accept it. I chose the former.

Just so you know, OCD is not a condition that people are born with. Onset often occurs in childhood, but anxiety disorders can develop at all stages of life.
@99 It seems to me that this guy suffers from some type of autism, although perhaps not as severe as Asperger's. This would definitely explain the writing style (but not the stupidity).
@210, @99, @197 et al - why the need to pathologize what can be perfectly easily explained by the guy just being…a bit of a self-obsessed, immature prick? Attaching syndromes to any behavior that deviates a little from the norm might make you look like you've got all the answers, but all it really does is to give people like MrPhonz an excuse for behaving badly towards women without having to make any changes - after all, if he follows your logic, it's not his fault that he sucks at relationships. It's the autism/OCD.

I don’t follow your logic. Understanding what is making something hard for you is a good start to making progress.
Sure - but making out that what's making things hard is an unalterable pathology rather than, say, an attitude than needs some readjustment and a bit of growing up surely isn't helpful. Occam's razor - dude's not autistic or OCD. He's just self-obsessed and hasn't grown up yet.

No disrespect meant to those who do really have Asperger's or OCD, of course. But MrPhonz is almost certainly not one of them, and it's irresponsible (not to mention impossible) to "diagnose" him as such on the strength of one navel-gazing letter and a few posts on Slog.
Anybody thought they were at a church related convention?
Oh boy this letter reminded me of me when I was 22. There's some good advice here and good on you for reading it. One thing, from having been there, @201 is absolutely correct that you don't get what you deserve, you get what you get. If I'm correct in my assessment that you're like I was, then you operate under the delusion that your actions alone can and will dictate the outcome of your human interactions. This isn't how life works, and thinking that it is is why you're obsessing over every little detail of what was said and when and to whom etc.

You need to stop thinking that you are the orchestrator of all the events around you. Take what comes and realize that you really don't have that much to do with it. Shitty things will happen, treat those as opportunities to learn. Awesome things will happen too, but you'll not be able to enjoy them if you spend your whole time trying to remember everything you did to make them happen.

Stop dwelling on the past. You're a virgin because you are, not because you're some romantic fuck up. You didn't get Stella because you didn't, not because you didn't play it the right way. Stop trying to do everything "right" and just do your own thing. If you're not a bad person people will respect that, and some may even like it.


Absolutely correct that nobody is in a position to diagnose anyone here; also pretty sure (though not in a position to know for certain) that the LW doesn’t have either ODD or Asperger’s.

However, both of these are spectrum disorders and there is some discussion as to whether Asperger’s is a disorder at all. Someone in one place on a spectrum can benefit from techniques that help people in another place on the spectrum. Whether someone has Asperger’s or not, they are still accountable for their actions. Someone with Asperger’s, or with Asperger-like traits, can remind themselves to pay attention to other people in particular ways or to ask people certain types of questions (are you having fun? would you like to do something else? what would make you happy?) in order to have the kinds of respectful relationships they want to have.

The idea I object to is that using a model of a particular neurological style not only cannot help improve understanding, it somehow makes people unaccountable.

We’re all accountable.

Ok, let’s try this. Neurotypical people, people off the autistic spectrum, bond with others and form in-groups. They are more likely to cheat and bully other people. Does that mean that NTs are not accountable when they mistreat others? Are NTs somehow off the hook for bullying? Not at all. It means that they need to be careful to avoid situations where they might be tempted to gang up on someone.
This guy is dumb. Consider all the drama you went through karma getting you back for throwing out the girl you disrespected by calling "sluttish." What a jackass.
To the LW:

If you want to sleep with women, stop hating them so much first. You're just another garden-variety misogynist asshole, and no women should touch you until you can treat someone who is willing to share her body with you with something resembling respect.
BPOAT sounds like a real Nice Guy (TM)
How on earth did you make it through that whole damn letter?

Is there some kind of High School Drama Endurance Award, with lots of cash associated. I can't think of any other explanation.

He's a prick, and deserves what he has/is. Whining about being a virgin, and then shitting on some nice girl who had pity on his sorry ass and got naked for him...
I didn't read the whole letter. It's like 16 year old me managed to make it to 22 without getting even half a life and that just hurts. Then after dude started posting in the comments I couldn't keep reading. Here's my advice:

1) Weed, smoke it.
2) Naked chicks? Touch them.
3) Drama? Avoid it.

The last one is the tricky bit because it sounds like you love the drama. It's harder to quit than cigarettes, I know. Try reading about the Khmer Rouge or the Cultural Revolution. It'll help you realize how you problems don't amount to even a small pile of beans. It makes it easier to let stuff go. It's just not that important. Forever alone? Beats being beaten daily and paraded around the streets in the back of a truck while kneeling on broken glass. Anxiety induced impotence? At least you didn't just have to execute your parents or die alongside them. You see how this works.
@Centopar: What the fuck, this guy isn't anywhere near ASD. Why has "autistic" become the new buzzaord for "clueless cryptomysoginist nerd"? I love pop psychology from idiots!
@215: "Stop dwelling on the past. You're a virgin because you are, not because you're some romantic fuck up."

Fucking WRONG, he's both. He's obsessed with women, but he doesn't appreciate them just yet.
@222 Failed at reading comprehension, did we? Go and read what I said again.
If they're both leaving to study abroad in August, who cares? They'll be out of your life soon enough. Why waste time worrying about them now?

And yeah, your assessment of that first girl as "sluttish" makes you sound pretty damn hopeless. Good luck.
@189/192 一年間神戸にすんでいて勉強していました。前に大学で一年間勉強しました。今年話すチャンスがありませんでした。悪くなりましたよね!
(you're right I just didn't edit properly when I changed my mind from hou ga to ba form XD)
@ 197 - Suzy, good points about OCD / depression comorbidity and OCD onset. But I wanted to clarify that not everyone with OCD necessarily enjoys partying or is outgoing (which I say as an introvert with OCD).
@224: Oops, that should be "heartofgold".
the last girl undressed herself for me after knowing me for five days. I didn't sleep with her because I was turned off by this sluttish behavior

What are you, Amish? THIS is your problem. You are 22.
@57, nice to see someone who sees the same as me, however, I'd do things a little differently in that, I wouldn't even waste my time. She wants to date this guy the way he is, not my fucking problem. I really have no sympathy for anyone like this, and I'm going to make my damnedest sure I don't get drawn in. Thing is, I never actually have had to deal with or been in a situation like BPOAT, but I have read about this shit so much, it's already an instant reaction for me to go no fuckin way. I mean if anything, you should be telling this guy to say fuck it and let her fucking deal with it. She put herself in the situation, let her deal with it, go off and do your own thing. That's what I'd tell this guy.Too uncaring and cold for you all? Good. That's my point. Like I said, I have zero tolerance for this sort of thing and people need to be made more aware of instead of making fun of them.
22 year olds are NOT interesting enough for me to waste time reading that fucking novel...
@37 PBOAT casts himself as more of a court jester who isn't funny than a knight in shining armor. I wanted Stanley to beat the hell out of him within the first five minutes of reading his obnoxious letter. If PBOAT had said "I am 16" instead of "I am 22" perhaps I would have a modicum of sympathy for his well justified inferiority complexes.
@226 へー、神戸で勉強なったんですか?私、埼玉で勉強致しましたが、実は方言を勉強したくて神戸の方がいいと思っておりますので、ちょっとうらやましいです・・・方言を大変興味深く思っております。方言を覚えるために、何かいい方法はないでしょうか?




(I promise that I can speak colloquial Japanese, too, if you're afraid that I'll never stop speaking Keigo. If you want to practice, I'm not going to have a chance to speak it in the upcoming year, either, so I'd be happy to practice with you. Especially if you're willing to teach me Kansai slang! I wrote my undergraduate thesis on dialectology; it's a particular interest of mine. I hope to write a graduate thesis or dissertation on it in the future, but I'm just working on a graduate degree in education next year, not Japanese...

Uh, that probably sounds really intense, but mostly I'm just crazy about the Japanese language. And I'm also impressed that, with only two years of studying under your belt, you're already so proficient!)
@133 I was waiting for the first person to mention therapy, and I'm surprised it took this long. Allow me to rebut:

Mr Phonz: A therapist will help you cut through your own mental BS and self-talk and (quite likely) depression and social anxiety. A therapist will help you figure out what to do if you don't already know it.

A therapist is of limited use - at best - at helping you do what to do. A therapist (very) often provides an excuse for you to not do it, because you're in therapy and still working through your problems, bla, bla, bla.

However, right now, today, you know what to do: find something to do in your off hours that doesn't involve this particular melodrama and start doing it.

If you're still obsessing over this, replaying it in your mind again and again, after six months with little to no contact with Stanley, Stella, and Blanche, then talk to a therapist. They're good at that. They can help you with that. Just not so good at this.

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