Comments
Please wait...
Comments are closed.
Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.
is a proud member of the
media network
media network
All contents © Index Newspapers LLC
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
this is totally dumb. to be stating that we should all have abortions regardless of context if pregnant before 21 is really really stupid.
have i said how stupid this sounds yet?
this sounds stupid.
and i don't care what any of the items below 1 and 2 say. it still sounds stupid.
you look ridiculous for plugging this. there is many other much better and less stupid ways of writing such a pledge. what a disappointment.
And @15 makes a really good point.
I will donate to Planned Parenthood, though.
You've already PLEDGED to abort if under 21 /still in school/ etc etc and then you say "if I violate my solemn PLEDGE I solemnly pledge blahblahblah..."
Not just abortion, but also adoption or raising it yourself or with a partner.
So, on that grounds, this pledge isn't Pro-Choice.
I also think you'd be hard-pressed to find a sexually active adult who uses abortion as their only method of birth control, if for no other reason than it can be fucking expensive.
This does nothing other than play to the prejudices of the pro-life lobby.
There are so many ways this could have been written better.
You've sworn that PP is not about abortion and only uses a teeny tiny percentage of its resources slaughtering babies but here in the Remorseless BabyKillers' Manifesto you go whoring for funding for PP.
I get that #8 is supposed to shift the focus back to choice, but that's several sentences after asserting somewhat questionable pledges. For instance, we could add: Etc. Yes, I would defend the right to choose even when exercised callously. But that doesn't mean I have to approve of such behavior, which is what #1-7 of the pledge require.
Did you STRONGLY SUGGEST she have an abortion?
Could she feasibly financially support a child?
How much drugs was she using?
.
Have you asked DJ to sign the pledge?
Maybe all the other commentators already got that and stil hate it; it's not an especially *good* satire. But hey, I bet at least a few other person reading this are as dumb as I am and thought the writer was actually advocating this policy.
And FWIW, scenarios #1-3 point toward adoption, not abortion. It's important to remember that many pro-choicers are also anti-abortion. That's why "pro-choice," unlike "pro-life," accurately describes the position held by its adherents.
and not a mention of adoption-
gee Danny,
having buyer's remorse?
I don't know, I find 4, 5 & 6 pretty compelling. Perhaps you need to re-read it.
I hear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me_E5Kl6E…
Did you STRONGLY SUGGEST DJ's mom abort him?
Are you a cold blooded murderous bastard?
Or a hypocrite?
Or is that just how you roll?.....
The list sucks. I am strongly pro-choice but strongly anti-abortion; it's traumatic (to varying degrees) to the woman concerned, and should really be an emergency option for when things go wrong. A better pledge would be:
1. If I am pregnant and am not comfortable with carrying to term, whether for medical or personal reasons, I will get an abortion.
2. If I am pregnant and feel comfortable with carrying to term, but do not feel that I could properly raise the resulting child, I will either get an abortion or put the child up for adoption.
3. If I do not feel comfortable with raising a child, I will put forth my best honest effort to avoid pregnancy, via use of contraception and other responsible sexual practices.
Dan, you're all about responsible sexuality, right? Show it here, will ya?
2) learn to proof read
wurd.
and number 8 does not refute numbers 1 through 7.
people who are pro-choice are not wishy washy. plenty of us pro-choice people HATE abortion.
Jocelyn failed and Dan spread the fail.
Second, note how many people are offended by the pledge, think it's a bad idea, and or do not perceive it as satire. Since all those people are allies, that makes this a bad pledge. @25's comments don't help your case: her smug sense of superiority at labeling the pro-choice, anti-abortion folks as "wishy-washy" shows that the pledge is clearly meant to agitate. And what's the point of that?
why?
That's confusing, and possibly not at all what I thought I was signing up for.
Please explain, Susan. B. Anthony Co.
2. If become pregnant and opt not to have an abortion, I will remember that my choice would have been meaningless without the right to choose and will continue to defend that right.
3. If I have the ability, I will donate to Planned Parenthood and/or other organizations that defend a woman's right to choose.
There. I fixed it.
I doubt, however, that all of the critics on here are allies. After all, @28 says that numbers 1-7 require defending "the right to choose even when exercised callously." I really don't think 4-6 require that at all; do you? And as for the rest, have you ever met someone who had a kid young, kept it, and turned out to be a good mother? I have not. I have, however, known girls that age who decided to give the baby up for adoption rather than abort, and then decided to keep it upon giving birth. And it's pretty fucking tragic when a girl ends up giving up her future to have a kid.
If you really believe that life begins at conception, and that destroying that life is wrong, then you goddamn fucking well better fund fucking planned parenthood, provide access to contraception, and teach actually informative sex-ed!
It must be hammered home that the dogmatic, delusional twits that are against PP/contraception/sex-ed are trying to increase the number of unwanted pregnancies, and therefore abortions!
Fuck.
If it's satire, it isn't very effective as satire. For starters, one would need greater familiarity with the original that's being satirized, but most who encounter this won't have that.
#'s 1 through 3 are really vile things to say. Some of the other lines make sense, but that doesn't redeem it. Instead, you just made an effective caricature of all the false, distorted things pro-lifers like to say about pro-choices. You just ensured that they will print your failed effort as part of their PR, to shock all their followers into thinking that pro-choice really DOES mean pro-abortion. Thanks for setting the cause back in this idiotic way.
There are lots of pro-choicers who are anti-abortion, meaning that they would never get an abortion themselves, or at least not get an abortion unless they're in position 6. You might also be surprised to learn that lots of pro-choicers are religious. It's not just a "liberal" position, which is a good thing given how few people consider themselves "liberal" these days.
As for knowing someone who had a kid young and kept it and ending up being a good mother-- my mom was 20 when she got pregnant with me. :) She went back to school when we were in grade school, got her law degree, and made partner at a rather large and prestigious term. Of note, her female colleagues were all envious of her for already having her kids, so she didn't have to take repeated maternity leaves at the time when associates are typically up for partner.
Just saying... having kids when young is not always a bad thing, and it's possible it can actually help your career.
As a man who became a father when he was barely 20, fuck you for comment 51.
As an ex-Catholic – I like your picture.
If you can actually offend a significant percentage of Dan-fans through pro-choice activism...you are doing it wrong.
Any pro-choice pledge MUST have #1 be "If I do not want a child or otherwise feel unable to raise a child at this point in my life I pledge to use effective birth control during every sexual encounter."
Damn, keep shoving your foot in your mouth, maybe you'll choke on it.
So yes, I agree with #56 and fuck Jocelyn for her myopic worldview. It's people like her that ensure that liberals lose so many rhetorical battles.
I am strongly pro-choice. I've never been anything else. I give to advocacy organizations that have the sole purpose of defending a woman's right to choose and everything. But I was offended by this list on its face. I would not sign it as it stands. (I think #7-9 could be lightly modified to make a very decent sort of pledge, as I posted @50)
I think you are very wrong in thinking that this is just what most pro-choice people are thinking. Pro-choice is pro-choice. Yes, some/many people who are pro-choice would act in some/many of these ways themselves, perhaps. But by turning it into a pledge you are making a prescription for how ALL women ought to behave in these circumstances, irrespective of their own wishes, and that's not okay. And #8 does not cancel that out.
In fact, the undertone of the list is that is just sets up another way to judge women's choices. "Young and pregnant? You're not having an abortion? There's something wrong with you."
Sadly waiting for this pledge to show up on conservative blogs and Fox news in the next few days.
All I can say to it is "wow."
Any comment on the shit you stirred up?
no, not really.... they maybe shortsighted, overly dogmatic, and counterproductive, sure. but vile? no.
not at all, if you want to see vile--- i'm sure all you gotta do is look at the lifers rhetoric, it's frickin' rife w/ the vile.
they don't care about the age of the mother, the circumstance of the pregnancy, or the actual life conditions of any child. & that's what is what's sick/vile.
this is just another dumb ideological "pledge", file it away w/ the same veracity as all the others have been taken.
this should read...
"they don't care about the age of the mother, the circumstance of the pregnancy, or the actual life conditions of any child. and under ANY situation is always EVIL, WRONG WRONG, and never accepted & that notion is what is truly sick/vile.
I am anti-tobacco. I do not smoke, and I think smoking is a tremendous health hazard. I would advise any smoker to quit immediately, and advise any non-smoker against taking up the habit.
However, I am pro-choice with regard to tobacco. I do not want tobacco to be illegal: I respect people's rights to make decisions regarding the integrity of their bodies that I would not make. And I believe that making tobacco illegal would only drive its production and distribution underground, to the detriment of society overall. Just like Prohibition did with alcohol.
So I will protect people's right to smoke tobacco, even though I myself will never smoke tobacco.
Am I suggesting that smoking is equivalent to abortion? Of course not. I'm just pointing out how someone can be personally opposed to X but in favor of keeping X legal.
No, I will not sign that stupid pledge.
The worst part is about "strongly suggesting" or pressuring anyone else to have an abortion. That's preachy at best and abusive at worst.
"Pro-choice" works as an effective political position/coalition because it has room for:
a) people who are pro-choice but anti-abortion in their personal lives
b) people who don't think about it much, but like people being about to make choices about their bodies for themselves
c) people who are pro-choice and pro-abortion in their personal lives
People who are so pro-abortion that they loop around being anti-choice (in t'other direction) threaten that coalition, in my opinion.
I will not want to be Daniel Savage, licker of doorknobs and cheerleader of evil, at that moment.
Neither will Dan Savage.
I wish most of your mothers had abortions.
Dan?!?! Wtf.
Nobody should ask others to pledge to have an abortion in advance of being pregnant.
is spot on.
not so much because every 21 year old should have an abortion, but because everyone handles abortion with a ten foot pole and the pole is covered in shit.
When I had to tell young women that they were pregnant, I always mentioned abortion first. NONE of these girls were planning a pregnancy and by speaking openly and matter of factly about it as a choice, it normalizes and take some of the loaded stigma away from it. Any woman under 21 who is pregnant is not improving her life by making a baby at that age and are NOT planning it. If they are planning a baby at that age, then they are way too dumb to actually have a baby.
and I say unto to you: bullshit.
They ruined their life potential. They are not great mothers. They do not have enough life experience to be great mothers. they have never nurtured a project to fruition, they have never experienced a healthy break up of a relationship; they cannot be good mothers without some life experience, they are just practicing on a live kid stuff that might make them a good mother by their 3rd or 4th kid.
I hope that no one has an abortion, personally. But more important, I hope for a world where no one HAS NEED for an abortion because all pregnancies are planned for and wanted.
Until that day, it is nobody's business but the woman who is pregnant what she does with her body. I, too, sadly await the RR's trumpeting of this pledge as what pro-choicer's think.
I pledge the following to the members of the Susan B. Anthony List:
1. If I become pregnant, I will consider continuing the pregnancy to term and terminating the pregnancy as two binary options, with no inherent moral inequality between them.
2. I will consider the effects of my possible and optional pregnancy, followed by adoption or the responsibilities of parenthood, on aspects of my life including but not limited to the following:
- my capacity and desire for self-advancement.
- my capacity and desire for personal responsibility.
- my capacity and desire to have children when and how I want to (if I want to), and to have the resources to raise them that I want.
3. In choosing whether or not to continue a pregnancy, I will consider the health of the fetus, my health, and my ability to maintain a healthy pregnancy, as valid factors in my decision.
4. When seeking advice for or help with my decision, I will go to resources that are neutral or pro-choice. I understand that they seek to empower me, whereas pro-life groups seek to make my choice for me.
5. When friends turn to me for help with this decision, I will respect their right to a decision based on their unique situation and desires.
6. If I can, I will donate to Planned Parenthood or other similar institutions, so I can support all those who turn to them for help.
Not sure if this is done, but I'm sure it's better.
http://www.petitiononline.com/
http://www.klannedparenthood.com/History…
But how about pledging not to get pregnant without wanting to? WIth a very few exceptions it's really quite easy. I've been sexually active for 20 years now and have never even had a pregnancy scare because I had access to education and prevention (thanks in part to PP).
Fuck you, you vapid judgemental fucking cunt.
" And as for the rest, have you ever met someone who had a kid young, kept it, and turned out to be a good mother? "
Yes. Allow me to introduce myself. My oldest daughter was born when I was 19, I had been married for a year and a half. Her father and I are still married, our other daughters were born when I was 25 and 29, respectively. My oldest daughter is now 19 herself. For being so woefully disadvantaged by having such a clearly unfit mother due to your criteria of age, she has grown into a remarkable young woman. Her sisters show every indication of being much like her. So my youth at the time of her birth was not a detriment at all. But, according to you, I should have had her scraped out.
Fuck you.
Yeah, I'm sure Maggie Gallagher, Tony Perkins, Rick Santorum, Peter LaBarbera, Dave Vitter and MANY others can say the same damn thing.
You can cover your ears and scream all you want; I think it reflects badly on you that you refuse to even consider what many of us here are saying.
Look, I support completely legal abortion, with no restrictions whatsodamnever, and I refuse to stop any single woman from getting an abortion if she deems it necessary for herself. To do otherwise makes women into slaves. And I *still* think you and your pledge are full of shit.
So there you have it. Geeze, what a cluster.
/thread
@ 90. If you don't know any good formerly teen mothers, I think you're the one who needs more life experience.