Hey, Monogamists: What Would You Tell This Guy?

Comments

202

I'm not a monogamust, but the guy chose to get married to this woman. He ostensibly vowed to her that he'd stick with her thick or thin. She can sincerely allow him to have sex outside their marriage or he should just abandon his entire promise to her altogether. Cheat behind her back or divorce her; it's all the same.
I'm making no moral judgement on having sex with anyone he wants. I'm making an ethical one. A promise is a promise. If you can't keep the promise don't get married.

Dennis R. White on July 9, 2011 at 12:27 PM

203

@202: A promise to not have sex with other people includes a promise to have sex with your spouse. It's actually a fairly typical agreement known as an Exclusivity Contract (or Exclusivity Clause).

For instance, if I agree to make you my exclusive supplier of widgets, that's contingent on you actually selling me widgets. If you stop delivering widgets, you broke the contract and I get to look for someone else to provide widgets. It's certainly not the case that I'm required to go out of business in order to uphold the deal.

So if she's not having any kind of sex with him, and she's making no effort to provide some kind of sex, then she broke the promise, and he's ethically free to get a divorce.

I do agree with you though: if you can't keep the promise-- in this case, providing sex to your spouse-- then you shouldn't get married. Or at least not without telling your spouse before the wedding that there will be no sex in the marriage.

I Hate Screen Names on July 9, 2011 at 4:46 PM

204

Here is just one more instance where the construct of "forever-until death do us part" is unrealistic. That only works when both partners are secure and getting their needs met. Otherwise, what is the point of being in any relationship? He is being emotionally manipulated, but he is also enabling her by allowing himself to be rebuffed whenever she turns on the water-works.

It is the physical intimacy that is lacking for him and physical intimacy can be shared in so many ways, but she has just shut it all down. She may also be sex-negative. Some redefining on her part could help that, if she is willing to be taught how to do it. There could be a well of comfort that could help alleviate her suffering, but she may not have even thought about that way. Is medical marijuana available in her state? The only coping mechanism working for her at this point is avoidance. That is certainly not working for him.

jimmy on July 9, 2011 at 6:32 PM

205

Perhaps he should consider going into more formal 'chastity'....wearing a cage and begging her to occasionally (once a month or so) apply a vibrator to his cage to relieve him... Maybe through suggestion and subsequent conversation they can eroticize her non-desire.

bassdesires on July 9, 2011 at 11:31 PM

206

#52 FTW. This is a relationship problem, not a sex problem. He wants her to want him sexually, and for whatever reason, she is unable or unwilling to want him.

If she's unable, hard as it may be, he needs to move on ... sexuality is part of being a healthy, full human being for him, as it is for most of us.

It's clear he is beginning to believe that she's unable, even while he hopes she's unwilling, and has tried for years to induce her to be willing. Ultimately, he has to figure out the criteria for when he will give up, and start to own responsibility for his own happiness.

What does he want from Dan? Permission to leave? Permission to cheat?

It's hard to know when to leave a relationship like this, I know. The years sort of pile up in a mediocre way, not too happy, not too sad. If he wants to find happiness, he's going to need to shake off his passivity.

FWIW, I don't think this sort of unhappiness in confined to monogamous relationships, nor is it caused by the fidelity ethic within monogamy. One can be unhappy and passive in any type of relationship.

Krunch on July 10, 2011 at 12:55 AM

207

Clearly, he needs to suck up his "manly" fear of female tears and talk to his wife.

Start the discussion with, "I cannot go my entire adult life without an interested, responsive sex partner. What will it take for that to be you?"

Note how the obvious implication of that statement is that if it isn't her, it will be someone else, but he is clearly stating an absolute preference for her.

Should she say that there is absolutely nothing that could make her an interested, responsive sex partner, his next step is to ask, "What do I need to do to make you comfortable with my getting my needs met by someone else?" At this point, if her only answer is "divorce" then she will say so. If she's willing to consider other options, then she'll proceed to do so.

If he is sad about the idea of divorce, he should absolutely cry (if he wants to) and say that he loves her and wishes SHE did not wish to divorce HIM. Her response is then the critical factor. If she goes into a shrieky rage, then he needs to be very calm, repeat that he loves her and wants a marriage with her, then move off into Separation Land. If necessary, he can tell all their friends that they'd had a discussion about the state of their marriage and it didn't look like there was much hope, but if she decides she wants him back, she knows where he is. Then let HER file for the actual divorce. Meanwhile, you're separated. Consult a lawyer for information on the necessity of discretion.

on July 10, 2011 at 12:23 PM

208

I'm in the exact same boat. And I do mean exact.

It's a hard situation because I love her, don't want to leave her, and we are dependent upon one other, physically, emotionally, financially. And yet sex life is zilch and that's not making me happy.

The few times I've considered cheating happily were aborted before I went through with it (suffice to say, every loopy thing you've heard about Craigslist is correct).

Sometimes I wish there was a support network for spouses in this kind of situation, one where the sexual needs could be met with no strings attached; a "fuck buddy" network if you will.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to vent. I'd love to see you develop the issue on the podcast as I've sometimes thought about calling in regarding this issue.

hj1000 on July 10, 2011 at 12:59 PM

209

@208 hj1000
"Sometimes I wish there was a support network for spouses in this kind of situation, one where the sexual needs could be met with no strings attached; a "fuck buddy" network if you will."

The strings that matter here are the ones at home, not the ones with a fuck buddy.

Mr. J on July 10, 2011 at 4:24 PM

210

@208 - "Sometimes I wish there was a support network for spouses in this kind of situation, one where the sexual needs could be met with no strings attached; a "fuck buddy" network if you will."

Isn't that called AshleyMadison.com? No guarantees you won't hurt your wife though.

Also, Mr. hj1000, if you swear that literally, there is no longer any sex between you and your wife, so that you contracting an STD would not put her at risk... I think Dan gives people like you an automatic Get Out of Cheating Free card.

EricaP on July 10, 2011 at 5:12 PM

211

I read through most of this thread, but I am surprised that it appears that nobody has considered this possibility:

...perhaps the wife is a lesbian?

One thing, however is crystal clear. Monogamy debate aside: this is first and foremost a grotesque failure of communication.

Captain Wiggette on July 10, 2011 at 8:32 PM

212

I say, she needs testosterone. When I hit age 50, I lost all interest. I went to my doctor; she suggested testosterone cream. A little dab. Oh my god! I called it orgasm cream. Like, I had to have an orgasm, within a few hours, each time I used it. I am single, but was going to a martial arts class. Omg, the men all looked so good! I could have just dragged one into a closet.

So-it turned out--Costco did not know how to compound; when I got retested I had 4 times the testosterone a woman should have. Yes I had a few chin hairs, that needed plucking. But to go from zero desire, zero need for orgasm, to just being on the verge of jumping any man I saw (they smelled really good!).

This must be what it is like to be a teenage guy....

Anyway, she needs a full work up with a doctor that really understands womens' hormones. I bet you anything her testosterone levels are non existent. (Now I take a pharmecutical grade DHEA, which converts naturally to testosterone.

msmaple on July 10, 2011 at 9:55 PM

213

msmaple on July 10, 2011 at 9:58 PM

214

#213, it doesn't sound like this is a problem with her getting older and needing hormone therapy- the LW doesn't state her age, but says he is 40 is she has been this way for most of their 18 year relationship. I'm assuming their ages are close, or he probably would have mentioned something.
If the problem was ONLY a lack of sex drive on her part, I don't think they would be in the situation. Whatever the case is, their main issue seems to be that this isn't something the wife is willing to work on or even discuss with the LW. She seems content to go without intimacy for most of an 18 year relationship, and expects her husband to be fine with that.
Honestly, I think they just need to get divorced. It sounds like he's tried a lot, she isn't unaware of the problem. He needs to realize that he can love her and still say that he loves himself enough to not stay in the situation.

Pinky on July 10, 2011 at 11:14 PM

215

too sick to have sex? for years? really? what ails her?

i'm pro-science and i vote on July 11, 2011 at 1:53 PM

216

MS maybe? Chronic back pain? Fibromyalgia? Depression? It could be any number of things, but even so, she needs to make space in her life for intimacy with her husband, or let him find it elsewhere, in my opinion.

Lissa on July 11, 2011 at 4:12 PM

217

Several years ago I had come to the end of my rope in a monogamous but sexless marriage to a husband who refused to discuss any possibilities and told me to just get over it. I wrote to Dan. In his infinite wisdom he suggested that I DTMFA. That comment was echoed over and over again by every commenter, so I followed the collective advice and D'd TMFA. And trust me, I thank you all every day for my freedom from that situation. I waited 30 years but the LW doesn't have to. It's never too late.

Sarah in Olympia on July 11, 2011 at 8:02 PM

218

I'm not a strict monogamist (although I'd never cheat on my wife even if she couldn't fuck me--but that's because sex isn't a dealbreaker for me, not because I feel qualified to judge anybody for wanting it) but I think this guy deserves more of the blame than Savage or commenters have allowed. He's been letting this situation go on for years because he is afraid to confront his wife about the sex issue, or divorce her if that's really what's in everybody's best interests. He's not doing her any favors by avoiding the confrontation. Sure, she's not making it easy for him. But marriage is a two-way street. So long as you're stuck thinking "look what you made me do" you're never going to ask important questions about the only thing you have control over: your own behavior. This guy needs to ask himself, "what if my wife really won't let me have sex with her or elsewhere?" and if he's willing to stay in the marriage if that's the case. If he can't live with her saying "you can't fuck me or anyone" he knows what to do. Dump The Poor Sick Non-Fucker Already.

-Admiral Obvious, third degree

Admiral Obvious on July 11, 2011 at 11:10 PM

219

Haven't I read and heard over and over again that women think differently than men about sex? From what I understand sex is sex from a man's point of view, but it sure isn't for a woman. Women make a very strong connection between sex and emotion. For women sex includes exposing their vunerablities. I can understand the wife's fear; what if her husband is having sex with another woman and he falls in love? The wife can't help making this kind of connection because, for her, sex and love go hand in hand. I think they need councelling.

Just for the record I don't think society has any business in other peoples bedrooms. Monogomy seems to works for some and for some it doesn't, but I don't think it is any of my business and please don't bring religion into this! Grow-up, have your own personal morale compass, and be accountable for your own actions. Now go off a be a good neighbour ...

on July 12, 2011 at 11:55 AM

220

@217: That's the feel-good story of this thread. Thanks for sharing!

I Hate Screen Names on July 12, 2011 at 1:01 PM

221

That woman is selfish bitch if you ask me. He has her issues with sex, an it seem that with any kind of sexual behavior is out of the table, she loves him but doesnt allow him to pursue a healthy sexual life, witch is a very important part of our life, she blackmails him with guilt, he cannot have sex with her or anybody else, so his only option is masturbation, witch isnt enough to have a healthy life, he cannot divorce her either because she has him captive with guilt.

Of course many would not agree, after all, lots of people want to reduce sex as something unimportant or a guilty pleasure, while most if not all medics and scientists agree that note the case, sex is big deal for humanity, monogamy is not natural, but we can reason that, but in the top of that you ad no sex in a monogamous relationship then you have a perfect ingredients for insanity and low quality of life

Harming others by imposing your way of life is not love is pure selfishness

sordatos on August 11, 2011 at 9:32 AM

Hey, Monogamists: What Would You Tell This Guy?

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