You have a problem with non believers having a community? So we're all supposed to be little islands unto ourselves unless we believe in specific kinds of magic? What a sad world you must live in.

I agree, Charles. I get the same feeling when anarchists organize a meeting.

So basically you hate community. No wonder you wander this town aimlessly and talk to yourself.

You'd have got the willies, then, from the Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard, where (I just learned thanks to MacCrocodile!) their Lifetime Achievement in Humanism honoree Stephen Fry got serenaded by Molly Lewis - here's the captioned version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7qfVD_TX…

it does seem sort of contradictory, but the impulse to religion is in good part driven by the impulse to community... nonbelievers are probably just as likely to feel the latter. For better or worse (worse mostly, in my opinion) we like to be around people we agree with.

I do rather like Sam Harris insistence that he doesn't have a belief system, rather he simply lacks one - he's not an antheist, he's not an anything - there's just nothing there on that point to be... but it's kind off odd/difficult to have a "community" with that as the common trait

I'm with @1,

What's wrong with a party or convention or meeting or whatever? Getting together with people can be fun and interesting. They're just not wasting their time with all the superstition and rituals, that's all.

I used to be one of these people. I got tired of it. What an amazing waste of time it is to discuss how we all don't believe in something, and/or how those who do believe need to be helped or ridiculed or debated ad-nauseum. These "communities" do nothing but whinge about how stupid religious people are, how awful religion is, how smart they all are, how religion is a "virus" or whatever, basically how they're the best and how religion causes everybody's problems (don't point out how that sounds familiar, they'll get mad and start referring to their list of known logical fallacies again). Look at reddit.com/r/atheism for a general idea of the kinds of people attracted to this kind of tripe.

What an insufferable group of people. There is no god! Great! Go on with your life and pay it no mind, leave religious people alone so long as they leave you alone. You might as well create a Temple of Nickelback Haters. The resulting conversation would be about as useful.

Although I tend to agree with you, people like to make connections with people with whom they have mutual interests. And anything that promotes free thinking is good with me.

Sounds like this convention is for people who have been subjected to other people forcing their fairy tales on them, get frustrated by people trying to pass laws based on mythical events in ancient texts, and are actually curious about the nature of world but believe reason is our best way to go about it. Nothing wrong with wanting to commune with others around that stuff....

Given the fact we live in a country filled with people who believe in cloud beings I think it is important to gather as a community of non-believers to give each other support. And having been to one of these events in DC several years ago I rather enjoyed listening to Sam Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens.

And BTW "The CHZA" I sure wish that the religious people WOULD leave everyone else alone but history and current events prove otherwise.

"But I would much prefer to keep God and get rid of the church."

For the first time ever, I agree with you.

There is no vast religious people conspiracy out to get you and the government. Go ahead and pick out news stories from the South to try and prove your point, gathering together and ridiculing all religious people as a whole doesn't make you look very smart. It's no different than idiots whinging about "the liberal agenda" or "the gay agenda" or the Illuminati or the New World Order.

You're just making yourselves look like assholes and making it harder for people like me and Charles to state our nonbelief without people assuming we're the kind of nonbelievers who mock and hate on religion rather than just not giving a damn about it.

You're not invited, Charles.

@13 BUUUUURRRRRN!

So long as churches get the sweet sweet tax exemptions they do, and the "Gang of Sux" federal deficit compromise gives away $1,700,000,000,000 in Middle Class taxes to the Rich and Ultra-Rich, what's a few religious conventions between Peons?

The church is everything that is wrong with religion to begin with. Likeminded people gathered in a group around common ideology devolve into groupthink, no matter how "freethinking" they start out. The affirmation of others in your community against outside ideas is precisely what shuts down the brains of believers. How ironic, then, that Dawkins would lead the charge back to where it all began.

Your comment makes no sense. A driving force for humans is to seek community. Do we make fun of church-goers because of that desire to be around like-minded people? What about book clubs? Shall we keep book reading while getting rid of discussions about them? Or wait, should we get rid of comments for news and blog postings? After all, there's no need for that community, right?

It's a bit disingenuous to claim that a gathering of non-believers is like church. That's no more or less true than a soccer club being like a church.

@12 I disagree. I think we need the assholes in the non-believing community as much as they exist in religious ones. We need people willing to call out the garbage that people spout in the name of their faith. Too many people hear "respect my beliefs" and think "don't question my beliefs." The former is fine, and I tend to agree with it (or more accurately I respect their right to believe what they want). The latter is preposterous and should be ignored completely. Beliefs like these, that have direct impact on our daily lives, should absolutely be open to questioning, and even ridicule if merited.

We've left religion unquestioned in the public too long. It's time to make people think about and defend what they believe, if they can.

@16 I would agree with you except in all likelihood the people in these groups are also in other situations where those beliefs are challenged. It's pretty easy to live surrounded almost exclusively by religion. It's not particularly easy to live free from anything or anyone religious.

Huh. Sounds pretty silly to me.

Atheists groups generally have no goal. Nothing wrong with meeting like-minded people, but it is rather shallow. No better or worse than going to a tavern afterwork.

That time and energy could achieve a better goal. Look at Kiwanis, rotary, Lions and other device clubs. They at least have concrete goals: scholarships, camps, disaster relief, etc. I've found these clubs are rather religious, but it is a minor problem relative to the good they do.

Its time atheists use action rather than words to persuade.

@21 I refer to my previous arguments. Would you say the same of a get-together for people who choose not to have children? Or those with small dogs? Both are groups meeting actively in Seattle, and both could be considered shallow by your definition.

Regardless, I agree with you that more can be done. I'm a part of a group doing just that, and I know of other secular groups in the area that do have the concrete goals that you state as being absent. Look a few of us up if you are interested in helping us achieve those goals.

Sounds about as fun and as useful as a Christian apologetics conference.

@18 my problem with these groups is that they rarely, if ever, remain within the reasonable and respectable area of "religion is fine, but keep it out of government and do not use it as a tool for hate or profit." Anyone who believes in a religious concept is a fool, all religion is bad, the "theists" are all out to get us, I lost respect for xyz when I found out he was Christian - that kind of stuff.

If you start talking with the broad brush of "these beliefs affect our lives" you start ignoring the fact that PEOPLE are affecting our lives. The kind of people that use their beliefs to leverage anti-gay or racist law in the states or as an excuse to kill dozens of people in the middle east would still exist if religion went into thin air, they'd just have different excuses. If you're going to try to tell me that Christians in general are bad you haven't met any of the ELCA Lutherans that live around here.

@24 Agreed, and well put. I'm in no way saying that type of thing doesn't happen. If we are honest with ourselves, however, we recognize it and try our best to keep it from happening.

To be perfectly clear, however, most of the people that I know in the atheist community do not simply hate religion and all religious people. We have very specific problems that we want to see addressed, and we are willing to work towards those goals.

And I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's only people and not beliefs that affect our lives. It's a combination of both. Certain beliefs, that homosexuality is a sin for example, allow people to maintain their bigotry without having to defend it. Without the crutch of that belief it would be much harder for them to keep that position, at least that's my belief. In no way would I say that Christians are bad in general. I would, however, say that Christianity and other religions allow people to cease thinking critically about issues where they should be doing just that.

@24 Here's the problem. I want to believe that everyone who believes in a religion is just wrong, plain and simple. But I was brainwashed into a religion by my parents from early childhood and know only too well that many people are not even aware of how absurd their beliefs are. They could never cope with the contrary idea that their parents would brainwash them or teach them something that is untrue. Cognitive disonance
is more than they can bear.

@21 You raise an interesting questions. Why are there no atheist charities? Why is it that religious people have a monopoly on giving and caring. Why is it that all atheists worship Satan as the lord and drink the blood of babies? All very good questions that I don't think anyone has any answer too.

You clearly are quite educated about atheists. Perhaps you have even more insight into their groups than they do.

Fuck you, Chuck.

@21, you seriously might want to expend the minimal effort to use the Googles before you shoot your ignorant mouth off.

Or else you're a troll, but that's always a danger these days, isn't it?

Also, I really think the lot of you are reaching more than a little bit to put this down. People with a common interest - an intellectual interest, apologists' straw men notwithstanding - are going to a common meeting place to discuss things they think are important, hear people they respect speak, and more than likely have some parties and make some friends.

I mean... really? You need to find reasons to rip on that?

And while we're at it, how about folks like CHZA cool it with the "People who admit to being atheists are a bunch of 'spergers" attitude. A lot of people come into nonbelief because they've been badly burned by a hostile, excessively religious environment like an abusive patriarchal household, and when you grow up in a bad environment, sometimes you come out, entirely understandably, a little behind on social skills. And this is some people who are vocal atheists, mind you, not all. A lot are just curious and trying to grow personally. And now you're too fucking cool for school because you're so much better than people, some of them damaged but fundamentally good, who are trying to create a community? A community whose entire purpose, beyond the obvious one of socialization, is to explore, develop, and hopefully come to a more mature understanding of the ideas that brought them together? You look down on them for trying because you feel like you already have all the answers?

Go fuck yourself. Alone. You're more socially demented than the basement-dwellers you sneer at, and make no mistake, some of them, blameless or no, are fucking intolerable. But don't worry! One day you'll look back at what an insufferable prick you are right now the same way you look back at the different sort of insufferable prick you used to be.

Religion has no more reasonable a claim to be the source of community than it does to be the source of law.

Thank you, Charles. And thank you more, mr. @7. Summed it up nicely.

@22, why the secret? That underlines my point. Skeptic and atheist organizations have failed at public outreach other than stunts and stirring-up controversy*.

I knew about Habitat for Humanity and Kiwanis without searching for them.

I may be ignorant, but It's not for lack of searching. I have a subscription to Skeptic Magazine and Skeptical Inquirer. I hear about Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Penn & Teller. I constantly hear about JREF's Amazing meeting. I hear about the homeopathy "overdose" event. I hear about meet-up groups and pub-meets. What I don't hear about are concrete actions helping those in need.

@29, if people like you attend these conventions, I'm not missing much. If it was just an opportunity to make friends, it'd be fine. Apparently, if you don't think in lock-step, then you will be insulted. Seems closed-minded to me. Your own response indicates that it has a lot to do with tearing other people down rather than building something.

(*I am not including Adam Savage or Jamie Hyneman as they've done more to help than any skeptic group without being pompous asses.)

My problem with Atheism is that it is defining oneself based on negation. Why not have a gathering of all the people who don't believe other things that there is no evidence for? A meeting for those who don't believe in Santa Clause? I think community should be based on things that have evidence.

@32 I specifically don't name the groups I'm affiliated with because I feel it's inappropriate to try and co-opt a conversation thread such as this with what amounts to advertising. Take a look at meetup.com for atheist/agnostic/humanist groups meeting in the area to see what options you have to choose from. I've also added a couple links to my profile, if you want to see specifics in the area. Keep in mind also that these groups tend to be cash poor and relatively new, so of course they are not household names like those you mentioned.

Also, helping people in need doesn't always have to mean what you are implying. What about education? Many of us feel it is just as important to educate on the perils of believing in anything that comes your way, such as with the homeopathy overdose you mentioned. Education is, from what I've seen, often the single biggest outreach action these groups are trying for. Not the only one, just one of the largest.

@33 This is a bit misleading. While stating I am an atheist technically doesn't mean anything other than I lack a belief in a god, that isn't why I seek out others of the same opinion. You want community for things based on something other than negation, how about teaching science in science class (e.g. evolution), rejecting denialism while supporting skepticism, or a better wall between church and state?

It's true, Medina: if you don't like being called out when you make offensive, transparently bullshit generalizations about people you don't know, you're not missing much by staying away from skeptics.