That advice was so good, I need a cigarette.
Wow. 27yo men are rather stupid where their dicks are concerned, no?

Any of the flirtation that has occurred since his promotion (and you have to figure that some of it has, as FIS does not appear to understand the definition of workplace sexual harrassment) opens the company up for a lawsuit.

And really--a shit employee, lazy, rude, careless, without work ethic, and ready to cheat on her long term boyfriend, how is this anyone's ideal?
"Despite these complications I want to make a real move on her."
NO. Do not pass go, do not collect your sex. As a supervisor you are the one who needs to curtail the flirting now. Even flirting can be construed as sexual harassment. And if you have to discipline her even more due to her shit work ethic and she get's all butt-hurt, you sir may be in a world of hurt as well with false charges. There are other girlies out there. Wank off to visions of this one but go find another fish.
In his defence, he doesn't say he wants to cheat with her, he says he wants her to leave her boyfriend.

I wouldn't want to date a guy who thinks I'm bad at my job. Just sayin'.
Is she really flirting, or is she just being nice and friendly with her former-colleague-now-boss? In my experience, some guys can't see the difference between a woman being friendly, and a woman flirting. It is not the same thing.
Catballou, why do you think men are pigs? We'll fuck anything we find attractive, and pretty much compartmentalize and ignore all their negative personality traits while we do so. I don't exempt myself from this either. For instance, everything I've read about Megan Fox makes me think she's a spoiled, loathsome human being with an overactive sense of entitlement, but I'd still indulge with her in every depraved debauchery I could think of, if given the chance.
Man, this is a train wreck waiting to happen. Do what Dan said, or there's a good chance your own job will go down the shitter also.
I'm having a real time reconciling this: "everything I want in a partner" with this: "she's already got a boyfriend... she's a shit employee... lazy, rude".

Sounds like a real catch.
"She's lazy, rude to customers and last week I had to call her on a really basic mistake."

She's stacked. And she's going to eat your lunch. When you go to your boss to get her reassigned, you're going to find out that she's sleeping with him already (how else is she still there?), and you'll get fired for making waves.
I'm laughing so hard I'm cryin' here. "As your direct supervisor, I'd like to take things further. But I need you to break up with your boyfriend, maintain a wall between our personal and professional lives so that I can treat you like the shit employee you are at work (and maybe even fire you eventually! whee!!), and ps you can't tell anyone about us until I give the go ahead. Let's set some timelines for your portion of this work, shall we?"

what an asshat.
Oh, Knat. I don't think men are pigs. I love men. I love how you all look, how you smell, how you think--I love everything about men. But seriously, 27yo men with hard dicks should not be given the keys to the store if they can't demonstrate better sense than this guy.
Others have already quoted the salient, clearly conflicted parts of your letter, FIS, so I'll just add that you really need to stop thinking with your cock and back off from this mess of a girl. I am sure that, once you actually bother to think about it even a tiny little bit, you will realize that a would-be cheater who makes a shit employee is not, in fact, everything you want in a girl. The only thing you want in this girl, to borrow a tired jape, is your penis, and that's a bad idea.
"If she'll cheat WITH you, she'll cheat ON you." There's no guarantee even if she leaves her boyfriend for you that she won't be shopping for a third guy as soon as your back is turned.
@12: LOL.
To echo the others: NO.
flirting on Facebook sounds really sexy
Oh Hell, FIS, just fire her yourself and do it as soon as possible. It's the only way you'll be able to know for certain that her feelings for you are genuine. Good Luck!
Assuming from the sign-off this guy is Australian:
Mate, you do not wanna root this slag. Yeah, she may be drooling for a bone like a drover's dog, but you've seen the shithouse job she does at work and you think she's up for rooting around behind her old man's back. There's more off with this chick than a bucket of prawns left out in the sun. Even if she bangs like a dunny door in a thunderstorm, it's not worth it.
@5: Oh god, thank you.
We all seem to be assuming that Australia handles sexual harrasment the same way it is stateside. It probably does, both common law jurisdictions, etc etc. But God knows some countries have a completely different attitude about this stuff than we do.
Saying no to this decision has nothing to do with being nice to her boyfriend, nor is it about her infidelity. It is about maintaining professional ethics in your job. How would you like to lose your job because of this bitch? Don't fucking fuck her. You can look at other same-level managers, or people in other departments, but you CAN'T look at this chick while she's under you. You can never look up or down your reporting structure for pussy. THE. END. If you do, word will get around, you will get shitcanned and possibly sued, and you'll never get another job as a manager with that black mark on your references.

I've never worked at a place that did not ban relationships between employees and their immediate supervisors. Surely your workplace also bans this. Surely your vixenly subordinate knows this, and has an ulterior motive for getting into your pants. She has a boyfriend already! Back off.

Get her reassigned to another supervisor if you can. If you can't, then at least stop with the flirtation and stop posting on her facebook. I find it very unlikely that she hasn't friended other coworkers, too, which could make you look like a sleaze who trades banging for promotions--EVEN IF you two never actually bang or she never actually gets promoted. You have got to understand that the office grapevine is already buzzing about you guys. And a chick who would lie that you sexually harassed her (seems like that's what she's gunning for, job security via lawsuit) is the type to lie that you fucked her even when you didn't. How many red flags do you need to see? Stay the fuck away!

If she asks (or pouts about) why you stopped talking to her, tell her that you have to distance yourself for professional reasons, then immediately make an excuse to leave. Don't give her a chance to change your mind. Don't spend any time alone with her.

Also, if you can't get rid of her, use her next performance review to scare the shit out of her. Couch it in corp-u-speak. But she needs to know that if she doesn't make some positive change, she's going to get shitcanned. Put her on a performance plan or what-have-you. Hopefully she'll be too busy working her ass off to keep her job (the economy etc) to flirt with you anymore.
Dear Letter Writer in Sydney,

Please be advised that no matter how stunning she looks that gravity and time comes for us all. In the long run it is content of character that expresses true beauty. In short mind your naughty bits and pay attention to how this "everything I want" girl treats others. There is someone else out there so find her. Just my $0.02, feel free to toss it in the dustbin.
@18--you win the internet.
@18, that just sings.

Also, nobody talks about the Peter Principle anymore, but this 27-year-old middle manager has already been promoted to, or beyond, his level of incompetence. His upward-straining erection is no longer congruent with his career trajectory, unless he wises up.
She is not everything you want in a woman. She is sexy. You like her body and you think her personality is sexy.

Everything you want in a woman is going to include the attributes that make for a good employee. If she is lazy at work, she is going to be lazy in her personal life. If she is rude at work, she will be rude at home. She will probably be even ruder since most people can pull it together in public even if they can't at home.

She is guaranteed to bring all qualities you see at work into your relationship. It is good that you see all the barriers to your courtship because I think you are looking to have some sense talked into you. You can tell this would be a clusterfuck, but are having a hard time letting go of the fantasy. Let it go and don't screw up both your professional and personal lives at the same time.
Just do everybody (particularly your customers) a favor and fire her inept ass already.

And just to drive the point home: It's painfully obvious that her only redeeming quality is physical attraction. She's lazy, rude, inept, and scheming. Sure you want to fuck her, but you must know in your heart that you don't actually want a relationship with her.
27yo is a little too old to still get "everything I want in a girl" and "I want penis inside her" confused, no?

Also, ditto #5.
Is it possible one or both are thinking that his new elevated financial status might finance her career goal, which seems to be not having one? Financial dependency is hawt for some folks, she'll be less likely to leave him and will have plenty of extra free time to pursue her non-partner flirtations.
And snarky over-analysis aside: Dude, don't pursue. Dan's advice is perfect. I don't think the difference between being the guy she cheats with and the guy who flirts and emotionally supports her as she breaks up and maybe provides the bed for her to move into is as big as you think it is. Do you love her enough to quit your job so she can keep hers and you can pursue a relationship?
@18: You may be a Feral Turnip, but you're also a sharp knife. That was spot on and funny as hell.
This story would make so much more sense if the letter writer was 17.
"AND we have to keep wall between our personal and professional relationship AND in the interest of not compromising my new position we have to keep the whole thing secret for a few months at least"

expecting someone who is demonstrably incompetent and rude to behave in an adult and professional manner when it comes to the separation of personal and professional relationships with coworkers?

good luck with that!
I learned two news words tonight: "drover" and "dunny". Thanks FeralTurnip!
I've worked with this girl, or one just like her.

She had been with the company for more than four years when I left, and had only stayed that long because they could not fire her. She had fucked just about every middle manager the place had, and some upper management (we had one female manager in a store with ten management positions, the rest of the stores in the city had none). She managed to snag most of them just before or right after they got promoted, so the rest of us got to deal with all the backlash for a good six months before they could do anything. It was to the point where they just transferred all the managers around when people started complaining about what she was getting away with, and she just stayed in the same position, getting raises once or twice a year.

Ask around. If this is your situation, go ahead and fuck her. I imagine everyone else has.
Dan, your advice was perfect. If only LW didn't have to overcome his dick to take it.
Dan, I think this is unusually bad advice. I can just imagine the conversation you suggest with this guy's boss. I would follow this advice only if I wanted to prove to my boss that I had horrible judgment and no self-control.
I think the guy should just resign.
This guy sounds like a jerk. Way to go telling him to come up with a way to get the object of his lust and ridicule fired!
Dan: Spot on advice. The letter writer absolutely CANNOT fire this woman without getting the company sued.

As soon as she gets fired, she will come back with the entire flirtation documented in writing, thanks to Facebook. Also, there will be an accusation that he tried to bone her and she refused.

She needs to be assigned to a new boss. Then HR needs to document the friendship and ask her if she felt harassed or ever asked him to stop. The second she signs a document that says it was no big deal, she can be fired.
I think he should fuck her, then fire her. Then get fired.

It'll open up two jobs for people who work harder and don't think with their dicks.

I sure hope this guy wises up and stops this nonsense. He's setting himself up for a sexual harassment charge and a LOT of grief. Lots of good fish in the sea, buddy. Back off NOW.
Hell of a clusterfuck.
Wow, what's with all the paranoia around hypothetical sexual harassment claims?

There's no sexual harassment here. There's no reason to think she'd bother to make up a completely ludicrous sexual harassment claim which would fail and harm her future job prospects. It's. Not. An. Issue.

Also, notice they have "customers," so this sounds like a shit minimum wage job that no one's going to stay in for very long anyway. So does it even matter?
I think many people have said and i will say it once more :
Please resign, you are incompetent both as a manager ( for the simple fact that she is not good at work) and a person ( your moral standards are, let us say, low and start thinking with your brain and not with your dick... ) flirt on FB... senators have resigned for much less.
OMG, i am judgemental this morning but i can't help it today
@Knat (6 above), I'm a man too and I don't feel at all like you. Don't overgeneralize: men aren't pigs, only you and those who feel the same. (I mean 'pig' in the good sense, of course, as you also did.)

As for Megyn Fox, I wouldn't fuck her -- her face would bring to mind all kinds of images that would make me feel quite unaroused.
Definitely fuck this woman. Then tell her that her sexual performance was lazy, rude, and that the whole thing was a really basic mistake. As you show her the door say, "you have to break up with your boyfriend, we have to keep a wall between our personal and professional relationship, and in the interest of not compromising my new position we have to keep the whole thing secret for a few months at least."

This will totally work out for your happiness in life!
Man, Facebook is going to be the death of civilization!

What is it that turns humans into moths to roast on Facebook's flame? This guy has documented his fixation with his coworker/underling (who is flirting with being fired). She should nickname the guy "Geico" or "Suncorp" since he's her insurance provider.

LW, run, do not walk, to HR. Put it in polite terms, but fess up and beg for their help in saving your sorry ass. You're only 27 so they might take pity on you, but learn the phrase by heart: "Don't shit where you eat" which is simple enough that even if your brain is mounted in your genitalia, you should be able to understand it. (Really, reread your own letter about the conditions you expect to happen that will allow you to "have" her!)

Aw, c'mon. Just 'cause she's crap at her job and (might) have realised she's interested in someone other than her current partner (that never happens to people in their twenties, right?) it doesn't mean she's a "train wreck" as a lot of you are making out. And if she's not an obvious train-wreck it doesn't make FIS a complete moron for retaining an interest here.

It still stands that the workplace scenario - especially you being her boss and her being bad at her job - means that NOTHING SHOULD HAPPEN HERE - but I think assuming that we're dealing with a basket case and an imbecile is a little unfair.
Why would you want to risk messing up your job situation just to go out with a woman who is willing to cheat on her boyfriend and is crap at her job? I mean, lots of great people are crap at their jobs, but "lazy and rude to customers" don't really strike me as the hallmarks of someone who you want to spend a lot of time with. I worked in retail for a while, and the people who were dicks to customers were generally, well, dicks all around. And the lazy people... well, it's not the worst thing in the world, but eventually a decent person realizes they're creating a burden on their co-workers by not pulling their own weight. So take a step back and consider if this woman is really "everything" you want in a partner. I find it telling you haven't mentioned any of her good qualities.
@2 I hear you, but then again my buddy's now ex-wife was also trying to fuck an employee of theirs, flirting openly with him when her husband wasn't around. You don't need a cock to be young and stupid, shit, you don't even need to be young.
Wow, they sound like a charming pair.
@11: I didn't mean to imply you're a misandrist, if that was how you read it. Doesn't seem that you did, though.
Leave it. Wait till working together is no longer an issue. Keep an eye on her FB. A year or two later when she's single, reconnect.

"If it's not going to work now, leave it, it may work later." Is a dating rule that's worked out for me plenty of times in the past, and when it doesn't you often don't remember anyways.
@54: But he wants to bone the obnoxious, dumb girl nowwwwwwwwwwww.

::wipes tears from eyes::
Oh, I so needed to read a really stupid letter and this tickled my funny bone plenty.

Even if the company is a trainwreck of a number of shit jobs and equally shit employees, the LW is proving that his superiors hadn't done their homework before promoting him. To quote Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon!"
Anyone else suspect that this guy is basically a nearly virginal geeky guy who is average looking at best, and that the girl is totally hot and way out of his league, and like so many loser-y geeky guys, he's allowed himself to get all wrapped up in a sad, total fucking fantasy about where things could lead with this woman?

Ok, FIS, you're reading these comments. Can you please explain *why* you want to pursue this girl? How can you describe a potential cheater with a crappy work ethic as your ideal?
Dear Dan:

I want to do something stupid. Could you please tell me it's not stupid?


A crappy work ethic translates into a bad partner.
@57: It's true. If he had any other prospects, he wouldn't be fantasizing about a "relationship" with someone who has zero interest in dating him (or fucking him, for that matter.)
Fantastic advice, Dan, but... I am really hoping that you learned that the writer's boss is male through edited-out extraneous info, and didn't just make the stereotypical gender assumption that 'boss'='male'.

Please wait...

Comments are closed.

Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.

Add a comment

By posting this comment, you are agreeing to our Terms of Use.