Comments

1
I'm sure the kids will be thrilled about your plan to sort out all your other life shit just as soon as you hit that sweet piece you've been fantasizing about. Oh, wait, is this "I, Anonymous"?
2
YOU move out - maybe back to Mom & Dad's or a sibling's temporarily. and take all PH's guns with you.

the sex needs to wait.
3
Why should the husband leave? How about she leave him and the kids?

Of course, my philosophy is clean up the mess you've already made before going out and making new ones. It's good housekeeping and good life management.
4
Wait. Wait wait. She typed all of that on her iPhone?
5
I have a friend in the exact same situation as in first half of this shitshow, and I only wish she had a DBFBF (OK, minus the DBF) with whom to have mindblowing sex to kickstart her into DTMFA'ing the PH--who's NOT an actual husband, as is also true in FF's case. Your advice is dead (sorry) on, Dan.
6
@4: You should see some of the epic emails I get that have been typed out on iPhones. It staggers me.
7
Sometimes, Mr. Savage, reading your advisories makes me far happier about my own miserable life; I wonder if that is why I keep returning to read.
8
Yup. 100% his fault. Horrible man.

Her? Fucking saint, she is. She'll tell you about it. Just give her the chance. Or an IPhone, it seems.

Not buying it. You move out, letterwriter, give him custody of the kids and child support. See if that is okay.

Oh, wait, that is right, it is 100% his fault, and he is Satan. So HE has to move out, and then pay you....so you ccan start fucking someone else.

How convenient.
9
Wait, what? FF calls her mate a "pseudo-hubby (PH)". Is she actually legally married to this douchebag? Or is she just cohabitating and calling him a hubby. There is a huge difference, legally.

If she is legally married, and planning to divorce PH, then she needs to be extremely discreet if she fucks DBFB. If PH catches on to the affair, it could cost her a lot in the divorce process. He can claim victim status. He might try for a larger financial settlement, a share of her new business, or more time with the kids, etc.

If she is not legally married to PH, then the consequences of getting caught fucking DBFB are almost negligible.

Either way, as long as both FF and DBFB are clear that fucking is purely therapeutic and temporary--not a long term thing, then I got no problem with it.
10
I'd like to add an addendum: It seems like getting the fuck out and DTMFA should be a top priority. I'm sure DBFBF is aware of how fucked up her situation is and the pressing need for her to leave (as #3 said why should she wait for him to go?) and LW and DBFBF can come up with some sort of escape plan; i.e. they can get a new place/apartment all ready to go so and as soon as that happens she can inform PH that she's leaving and then go.

She should surround herself with the "amazing, supportive people" to help her move so it can be done post haste and to also make sure that PH doesn't freak out and do something violent. As soon as she's in her own place away from PH THEN she can fuck DBFBF's brains out. This whole situation can really only strengthen the bond with DBFBF while lessing any feelings of "oh god, we need to do this b/c we're both so desperate" and make the sex that much more mind blowing. And another upside to moving out first is that knowing she has to go back home to PH after the mind blowing sex is really gonna be a buzz kill (or it might be anyway.)

Although I really can't say strongly enough how much she needs to get out of that house and POS she's "married" to. For both her physical/mental safety and her kids.
11
If a "happy" affair makes it possible for you to stay in your miserable psuedo-marriage, I vote against the "happy" affair.

But the likelihood of disaster there, also may make you more depressed and less likely to dig yourself out.

Be an adult, make a living, and get you and your children out of that hellhole before you get distracted by the chimera of sex or love

It's been selfish of you to keep your children in that toxic stew because you haven't done the grownup thing and made a living for yourself and them, instead of wallowing in self pity.
12
This is an ugly situation. Sleeping with the other guy before leaving the (not-a-)husband(?) isn't going to make it any prettier.
13
Getting involved with the dead best friend's boyfriend is going to be a mistake. So is staying with the psuedo-husband.

The letter writer's soul mate was depressed enough to kill herself. The letter writer has stayed with a horrible, depressed man for a decade. I don't for a minute think that the letter writer doesn't have a world of problems, and I don't think adding massive drama is going to be a good thing for her, or likely for DBFBF who also has a world of problems.

The letter writer says she's surrounded by amazing supportive people, that she's got a business going, that everything other than the terrible pseudo-marraige, the best friend killing herself and the mutual attraction with the DBFBF -- other than all of that, everything is peachy. I suspect she's also smart enough to know she's not the best judge of things right now and things might just be comparatively peachy.

My advice to the letter writer would be this:

Get away from the psuedo-husband -- take the kids and go. If money is tight, talk to parents, family members, friends about it, so you and they know what happens in an emergency. Move in with the folks if that's practical.

Give the DBFBF some breathing space and some grieving space. Give yourself some too. If you and DBFBF are still into it in 6 months, go for it. Probably a mistake, but sometimes you need to make the mistake to move on.

In the meantime, if you must, find a nice uncomplicated fling -- some poor shmoe who will bounce back quickly from the shitstorm that you may well be right now. No, two flings, so hopefully neither will get too serious.

14
So I am no expert on grieving, but I'm having a bit of trouble being okay with DBFBF going from losing his GF to suicide to dirty-talking the BF in just three weeks. And also the "soulmate best friend" now wishing to bang the BF. I don't know . . . I'd hope that if/when I go to the great nothingness, my loved ones ponder our time together just a bit longer than that.

And that's the first time I've ever abbreviated "girlfriend" "boyfriend, and "best friend" in type, and I kind of feel dummer for it.
15
what the fuck is a pseudo husband?
16
@11: "If a "happy" affair makes it possible for you to stay in your miserable psuedo-marriage, I vote against the "happy" affair."

I agree as well. This isn't the sort of situation that calls for a quick fix.
17
Sorry Dan, bad call.

Friendly Fire is afraid of being a big girl and taking care of business. Let's review:
* She despises her primary partner's job, hobbies, and sexual desire, has effectively blocked him out as she turns her energy into parenting and running her business but does not connect the dots with how he treats her in return.
* She is unsatisfied with primary partner's wage but it too afraid of losing that income to leave.
* She denies primary partner sex but complains that she's hard up.
* She wants out of the relationship but refuses to find a place to move out into instead demanding that primary partner take the initiative.

It sounds like FF is retroactively downgrading her primary relationship to try to justify her desire to do what she wants and what she wants is to escape responsibility. Hard choices are hard. The last thing Friendly Fire needs was a biggo Dan Savage permission slip to be more of a flake and drag a couple of kids along for the ride.
18
@9: No. Washington is a no fault divorce state and he's not going to get any legal advantage if she cheats. He might claim victim status, ask for more time with the kids, a bigger chunk of the business, whatever, but if he gets any of those things it will not be simply because she fucked someone else. The only issue to which that MIGHT be relevant is parenting - and that would only be if the cheating affected her ability to be a healthy, consistent, etc, etc, parent.
19
I'm with 14. I can't get past the part about how it's only been three weeks. Or are torrid affairs a part of the grieving process that I have been woefully missing out on?
20
FF was 18 when she started dating PH? DTMFA.

But. Do that before fucking DBFBF. First, what @9 said about certain legal realities (and don't forget to check whether you're common-law married). Second, you've been with PH your entire adult life, which makes me think your social circle is mostly shared. You'll lose most of those friends if you're the cheater-- most people are not as open-minded about cheating as sloggers. Finally, PH needs a good kick in the ass about what an asshat he's been, and that won't happen if he can blame your righteous dumping on you wanting to get laid.

Once PH or you are out of the house, you can fuck DBFBF to your heart's content. Be discrete, of course, but no need to skulk around or hide like you're still the teenager you were when you hooked up with PH.
21
Of course I assumed she is in Washington, which she may not be. Still, virtually every state is "no fault" these days so... the general principle stands.
22
@14/19: Sometimes when people close to you die, you really, really want to fuck. I think it's a "life affirmation" thing.

Not everyone reacts this way, and the same person may deal with different losses differently. But seeing your sex drive go supernova after a personal tragedy is not uncommon.
23
Three weeks?!? THREE WEEKS?!? What the fuck is wrong with these people???
24
Loved the title. Though I think it's kinda immoral to let a good pun determine the advice you give, Dan.

It's not the end of the world if she fucks the DBFBF. But there's no reason to give her permission to do so on the strength of her lame promise to sort out all her other life shit after the hot sex. What if it's not as hot as she thinks it will be?

Instead, tell she can fuck the DBFBF only as a reward, after she has taken at least 3 constructive steps towards fixing her situation. (Such steps could include: seeing a lawyer to discuss child-custody issues; seeing a therapist at least a couple of times; getting a job & enough childcare; getting an apartment; admitting her fucked-up situation to her parents; etc.)
25
I'm with @3. you might have said DTMFA, but you didn't tell her to *leave*. What is that, LTMFA? Who gives a shit if he won't go. She doesn't have to tell him to go. She should LTMFA. With the kids.
26
Um, why does she deserve "joy?" (Not that any dumb decision this chick makes will ever result in anything but drama and unhappiness anyway.) She's not "trying to be a good mom;" she was completely cavalier about having children and picked a random asshole to be their father. And he's not a "pseudohubby"--he's just a guy she's not married to (and they're straight so they could marry legally). What her KIDS deserve is a clean, drama-free family life. Maybe she should think about what they deserve. What a shitty, shitty mother. I think she already has the life she "deserves" and probably always will.

Save up, move out, be a grownup for a little while and then try to develop a healthy relationship with another grownup. All this crap about everything else is just a distraction.
27
@14

Thank you! Why the fuck did it take 14 comments before someone finally took notice of this?! Three fucking weeks?!? Remind me NEVER to have a "soulmate best friend"!!
28
@23 & 27 see @22
29
Um, "I've tried to end things" and "He just won't listen?" You do NOT need someone's permission to end things! Jesus, if people could say "No" when someone tried to dump them, no one would ever break up!

If your "pretend husband" is an ass, then leave. Take the kids, stay with Mom and Dad until you're back on your feet, contact a lawyer and get your ducks in the row.

Call your DBFBF and say "I'm a mess, will you wait for awhile?" and GO BUY A VIBRATOR. A successful businesswoman can afford one, I'm sure.

Yeesh.
30
Whoa, FF begged her squeeze to leave, and he won't leave her? I thought relationships had to be consensual; if one person wants out, they get out.
Di di mao, FF. Get the hell out. Take your kids, go elsewhere, preferably with relatives for the time being.
That said, you are a terrible person for going after your dead best friend's man three weeks after her death. If you start anything with him now, DBF might as well haunt your relationship for all the trouble the situation will cause. Leave him alone, vaginally, for at least a year.
Here's what you do: drop your kids with a relative or close friend for a few days (call it a vacation if you want) and go have a (RESPONSIBLE AND SAFE) one-night stand. Once you've had your really hot night of sex with someone who is not DBF's boyfriend, get the hell away from PH.
31
Everybody gets laid after a funeral, don't they?

I thought it was a tradition.

Me
32
I agree that this woman sounds like a shitty mother. If her children are suffering, she needs to get her own house in order before she worries about who to fuck next.
33
Agree w/everyone saying DTMFA.

I think that the troll is more right here. This LW makes no sense. "I tried to dump him but he refused?" That's utter bullshit. Simply DTMFA...unless you really don't want to for some reason you haven't told us!
34
@33 et al not seeing poverty as reason to be stuck,

Just because FF has an iPhone doesn't mean she has the money to uproot her family (sans PH)! (By the way, FF do you have a password lock to stop PH from getting access to any incriminating emails?). FF isn't willing to run out on her primary relationship as parent, so everything goes from there. And, if the kids come first, she should use their needs to guide things (use the urge to fuck as a sign of life, and a part of the promised land post-PH). So, if the business isn't portable to another place away from PH, she may have to lose that as well as her friends being physically around her. Put yourself in paycheck away from disaster and living with a zombie (hunter). I only hope FF isn't paying out her escape money into cigarettes and booze.

She should use her support net to ask for assistance in terms of advice, directions to a new living situation, and decreasing the loneliness she is stuck with. If that leads to therapy for herself, and the kids, that might be a priority as well. FF should remember that asking for help is a significant step in itself.

Peace.
35
Admittedly, I've not read all of the (probably) wise responses here...bereavement sex is great & quite often it is theraputic. However, when we throw suicide into the mix, things....like suicide, can get messy. I'd advise FF to use caution, in order to secure a safe environment for herself & her children. Unlike any natural death, suicide has loads of complications and I wonder if the dbf's b.f. is going to regret his carnal actions. If that happens, then FF is fucked, alone & dealing with the messiness of divorce/or dismantling of her ltr with her baby daddy.
36
She's struggling to make ends meet, but she's got an iphone? Wow, I wish I was struggling like that...
37
If you're not even legally tied to him, why are you still with him? Change the locks while he's at work (and send the kids to your mother's or sister's for a night or two so they don't hear him banging on the door). By the time the matter's legally sorted you'll either find a new place to live or make him give up the place.
38
Dan's exactly right: she's having a hard time ending the relationship, and finding someone else who really turns her on will help. Otherwise she'll stay there forever.

@14, 19, 23, 27, 30: What the fuck, people? Someone is supposed to go three weeks or longer without sex or dating after their partner dies? You're already grieving; why make things harder? Sex seems like a really good way of grieving to me. I hope my partners have great sex right after I die: it would be dumb of them to miss out for my sake.
39
Woman, you had better start socking away all the money you can, selling extraneous possessions and preparing your escape instead of worrying about who to bang.
40
Does anyone else think it's weird that only 3 weeks after her "best friends" death, she was able to seemingly joke about it (repeatedly calling the dude "dead best friends boyfriend" seems kind of silly), and fuck her boyfriend?
41
@24 EricaP

That's good advice but it assumes a level of rationality and self-control not in evidence in the letter.

As far as the separation goes, it sounds like FF's asking PH to leave so she can stay in the house with the kids. She risks losing custody if she moves somewhere without them. It seems like she should move out and take the kids with her. She's asked him to go and he's refused. Just go, lady.
42
@14/19, my favorite ex was very fond of my best friend - had a mad crush on her. This didn't bother me in the least, because I was aware that it was largely because of the qualities I shared with her. The three of us had a lot of fun together, and I appreciated the way he looked out for her. I was where his loyalties lay, but if anything had happened to me, he probably would have been drawn to her pretty quickly. She was familiar, shared many of the personal traits that drew me and him together, and would have been sharing in his grief. I also have been on the LW's end of the scenario, with my other best friend dying of a lifelong illness, so I can attest to the fact that the grieving process can be really really weird. There's no template.

That said, I think the LW needs to bang someone else. Not because there's anything that morally wrong with it, but because it's all too dramatic, emotionally fraught and potentially devastating. She needs to focus on getting her kids out of that toxic environment first and foremost. She should have done it YEARS ago, and she needs to do it now before things come to a head. Find a safe way to meet some other dude, bring condoms and bang him, get it out of her system, and then set about getting her life in order.
43
The real test will be what happens concerning the kids. There seems to be a running assumption here that she will get sole custody because she's the mom and he's a jerk. In real life, the courts take a dim view of one parent unilaterally deciding who the kids live with and on what terms.

If PH is uninterested in custody, then there is probably no impediment to LW and her kids moving away. If LW is a good a parent, and PH as bad a parent, as she thinks, then the court might award her sole custody. If PH is abusive to LW or (especially) the kids, sole custody is more likely. NOTE: on its face, the stuff LW describes does not amount to abuse, although LW does not specify how PH is "overbearing," "argumentative" and "mean."

Most likely, though, LW and PH will share custody. That means it will be difficult to move out of the area, and LW will have to maintain some level of continued contact with PH in order to make parenting decisions and arrange drop offs.
44
I'm another vote against banging this guy. Yes, grief is often sexually charged, but the possibility of shame and regret tied to these two having sex with each other is just too high. It's got "betrayal" written all over it, emotionally. This could explode in the worst way - what if after their really hot night together DBFBF looks at himself in the mirror and goes out and shoots himself?

Both LW and DBFBF should get laid, but that's what horny kindly strangers are for. Brings down the emotional stakes.

I also don't have too much sympathy with "he's such a pig, I only stay with him for his paycheck". That doesn't make you a saint, lady.
45
Sometimes a little cheating - a.k.a., a quick taste of what you've been missing out on/cheated of - gives you the incentive you need to get out of a bad/toxic relationship.
Seems like I'm going against the grain here, because I agree with Savage 100%. I've watched this very thing play out in that very way more times than I can count. Go ahead and fuck him, FF, but don't expect it to last.

To all the people who are screaming about "betrayal" this and "only three weeks" that...who gives a fuck? If I left behind a grieving lover, I would want them to find comfort wherever and however they could. I wouldn't care if that comfort came in the form of a new lover. And who better than a good friend of mine? If I like and respect someone enough to call them a friend or a lover, then it seems only natural that they would find companionship with one another in my absence. They're not disrespecting my memory by doing so. They're finding in each other the same qualities I found in them.

This is like that old cliche about a guy not wanting any of his buddies to date his sister. Why the fuck not? If they're not the kind of guy you would want hooking up with your sister, then why are you friends with them in the first place?

I've always felt like I couldn't leave him because I needed a way to financially support my children
...So why not leave him, and sue for child support? He shares financial responsibility for the kids he helped make regardless of whether or not he's living with them or fucking their mom.
46
Yeah, no. I'm not buying "I can't leave until after I fuck this guy." That makes no sense, and will just drag another person into this hot mess.
47
I disagree Dan. You don't "try" to end a marriage, you file for divorce. Do it, and save the fucking until separated.
48
Dump the sperm donor, THEN DO AS YOU WISH. Dan is completely wrong here, if you want to sleep around on someone it should be mutually agreed or AFTER you end the relationship. This is just a bad relationship, there is no medical/social reason to be a CPOS. End it, then move on.

Do not listen to Dan, do not become a CPOS, just DTMFA and move on.
49
Letter writer here. Ive been reading and watching all of the comments and I completely appreciate everyone's opinion - if other ppl opinions didn't matter, I wouldn't have written Dan. Just a few clarifications - I don't have family close or anyone I can move in with, I have about $3 in my bank account, a lot of my business finances are tied in with PH. When you're an uneducated 28 y/o woman, there's very few financial gains you can achieve on your own. I didn't want to pull my kids out of school or make them leave their home and disrupt what little normalcy they had/have - maybe that's selfish on my part. I hate how when these things blow up, kids always suffer. I tried to avoid that for as long as I could.
DBFBF has been a huge support system, a light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel so to speak. It's hard when you've spent 10 years feeling like a frumpy unwanted housewife to even imagine that there's a world outside of that. Passion, longing, etc.
The comments that hurt the most are the ones saying I'm a shitty mother and shitty best friend. I've spent my entire adult life trying to be a good mother, so it's eye-opening to see that when I think I'm doing what's best for them (keeping the fam together, pushing my own life/desires/wants aside), I'm actually causing more harm than good. And as for my friend whose passed away - I hope she knows I love her.
But an update - PH packed his bags and left this morning. Not sure what's going to happen next but at least we're a step in the right direction on sorting out our life.
Thank you everyone.
50
Letter writer here. Ive been reading and watching all of the comments and I completely appreciate everyone's opinion - if other ppl opinions didn't matter, I wouldn't have written Dan. Just a few clarifications - I don't have family close or anyone I can move in with, I have about $3 in my bank account, a lot of my business finances are tied in with PH. When you're an uneducated 28 y/o woman, there's very few financial gains you can achieve on your own. I didn't want to pull my kids out of school or make them leave their home and disrupt what little normalcy they had/have - maybe that's selfish on my part. I hate how when these things blow up, kids always suffer. I tried to avoid that for as long as I could.
DBFBF has been a huge support system, a light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel so to speak. It's hard when you've spent 10 years feeling like a frumpy unwanted housewife to even imagine that there's a world outside of that. Passion, longing, etc.
The comments that hurt the most are the ones saying I'm a shitty mother and shitty best friend. I've spent my entire adult life trying to be a good mother, so it's eye-opening to see that when I think I'm doing what's best for them (keeping the fam together, pushing my own life/desires/wants aside), I'm actually causing more harm than good. And as for my friend whose passed away - I hope she knows I love her.
But an update - PH packed his bags and left this morning. Not sure what's going to happen next but at least we're a step in the right direction on sorting out our life.
Thank you everyone.
51
It's not too late for BIRTH CONTROL
no matter what she does, whomever she does it with.
Take responsibility for your decision.

Am I the first to raise the issue of birth control?
52
As someone whose parents got divorced when I was 14, I can say -- and I said this at the time -- that I would rather have parents that were happily divorced than unhappily married. Staying together solely for the sake of the children often is not in the best interest of the children.
53
@ 50/51 - Good luck with everything. Please keep us posted.
54
As a child survivor of a family much like the letter writer, let me tell you that DTMF is not an easy choice. A mom with a couple of kids and no money and no support is not going to leave a guy just because he is a jerk. My mom finally left my "loving step dad" when he started beating on us kids. We were homeless, broke, couch hopping with 4 kids, and had to deal with even more crazy shit than before for over a year. That said, I respect my mom for finally taking charge of our life and trying to make our life better. A lot of people hide from the mess they created by drinking and drugging it away which just makes it worse. This situation is why education is so important for women. Money doesn't make you happy but it does give you choices.

Letter writer, you deserve happiness and great sex. First, clean up your mess and then fuck anyone and everyone you want. Just keep it away from the kids.
55
@LW: I am relieved. You stood your ground and you got him out of the house as you needed to. I'm sympathetic towards your financial woes. Our social safety net has been ripped to shreds and wages haven't increased for most people in decades. I stayed too long in a relationship because neither of us could afford to go anywhere. I know it's extremely tough.

But your kids are showing signs of emotional distress and they need out of your marriage as much as you do. The time that my parents stayed together "for the kids" and played nice was miserable and terrifying, and I grew up with no healthy model of conflict in my life. You have contributed to their harm, but you can now start the healing process.

I just want to emphasize to you, again from my own experience as a child of divorced parents, that the most important thing you can do in helping your kids through this is make it absolutely clear that 1) this problem is between you and the father, not them and 2) HE IS STILL THEIR DAD. Do NOT force them to take sides. Do NOT use your kids as sounding boards for your woes now that your BFF is gone. Allow them to have whatever father-child relationship they want to have and support their own choices.

DO turn to your friends and the BFF's boyfriend for love and support and crying and etc. Hold off on the sex until you've gotten some distance and you've given your kids the support they need. And definitely, DEFINITELY ask for financial help if you need it. If you think it's imposing a burden, chances are your friends will be delighted to help you get out of this mess so they no longer have to deal with it either - I've been that helpful friend too.

Best wishes to you and sorry for your loss. This is a terrible time and you've made some bad choices, but you have the opportunity to turn your life around now and find happiness and joy and health for your family, in honor of your soulmate.
56
Best to you to...looks like you're a courageous person working through a real mess.

Best advice I ever got: "When you're going through hell...don't stop."
57
Dan, you really ARE on vacation this week.

Friendly Fire, you need to do two things:

1. Leave, and take the kids with you.

2. Get your ass into therapy. Things to talk about in therapy: Why you've spent 10 years with someone who appears to hate you, how you're handling your best friend's death, how you can mitigate the damage that your horrible relationship has done to your kids.

You can fuck whoever you want to after you've done both of those things.
58
I really don't see how the guy is a douchebag. He had a wife and two small children: he supported them, by working a shitty job because the bills needed to be paid, while the kids were too small for school. The wife has been crapping on him for years and holds him in complete contempt: not surprisingly, he has as little as possible to do with her as possible, and isn't sympathetic to the troubles of someone who has done her best to make his life a hell on earth.

I once had a friend in an unhappy marriage who spent all her free time playing social video games like WoW. The moment she got out of the marriage, she lost interest in the video games, but while she was there, the games were a way to spend her time talking with people who actually liked her, as opposed to her husband, and to avoid dealing with said husband.

As for having sex with the dead best friend's EX-boyfriend: why not, if they both want to? The dead best friend thoroughly forfeit whatever proprietary rights she had to the boyfriend's future sex life when she killed herself. Just remember that it's rebound sex and don't put expectations on the relationship.

But I hope that the LW's future life is as hellish as she tries to make her ex-husband's. (I hope that she focuses on her own life and just deals with her ex in a businesslike way, but she sounds like the sort of person who spends years after their marriage trying to make their ex's life hell.)
59
LW, I'm sorry I used the phrase "shitty mother." That was trollish. I do think women having children too young and as part of casual relationships is a huge, huge social problem as well as a source of many painful personal problems; my impulse was to shame you. If someone didn't take the decision to have children seriously I usually just consider them a big fuckup and a bad parent, which isn't always fair. Sometimes people mature later and I should give them credit for that. Anyway good luck and I apologize for treating you like a hopeless case.
60
@33: " This LW makes no sense. "I tried to dump him but he refused?""

Perhaps she comes from a Catholic family?
61
@59 I appreciate that you told her that and apologized. We only get so much of the story of one person's life in these letters, and we're all making broad judgments based on the little information we have. I like that you came back and reconsidered.
62
Best to you to...looks like you're a courageous person working through a real mess.

Best advice I ever got: "When you're going through hell...don't stop."
63
I think it's messed up that she's going to sleep with him only 3 weeks after her best friend's suicide.
64
FFgone@49/50 - thanks for writing and giving us the update. Where did your partner (PH) go? Is he abandoning you guys, or are you communicating, as you figure out how to make things work with the same hard financial situation but now two households to support?

Can you tell us more about the early years of your relationship? Did you used to be in love with him? Did you guys ever have great sex that made you happy? I know you felt like a "frumpy unwanted housewife," but it sounds like PH was still interested in sex with you, and must have just been really bad at letting you know he thinks you're sexy. Sometimes it's easy for a new person to show us how sexy we are, and hard to get that same message from the guy who lives with you, even if he believes it just as much as the new guy.
65
@50 is from FF, the LW,

Even if PH has moved out, your journey has more to go till you should consider someone new. I hope in the long run things get better for both of you.

Peace.
68
@63: Why would that be messed up?
69
For all the people aghast that FF wants to fuck her dead best friend's boyfriend: you need to do a bit more analysis before firing a knee-jerk reflex.

The general rule is that you shouldn't fuck friend's exes. (Some people put a time limitation on that and some don't.) But why does that particular rule of social etiquette exists? Is the ex somehow "property" that "belongs" to your friend?

No. The reason for that excellent rule of thumb is that your friend is likely to be very, very hurt if you start fucking their ex. Your friend is likely processing a lot of grief from the end of the relationship, and imagining your ex and your friend fucking like banshees does not help get over that depression. And there's always the possibility that your friend will decide you were having an affair with their ex and caused the breakup, so you risk damaging the friendship as well. All for sex that is, by definition, rebound sex.

So. Good reasons for not fucking friend's exes, but those reasons all relate to your friend's feelings and your ongoing relationship with them. If the friend is dead... all those reasons vanish. The friend is past caring who has sex with their ex, past caring about whether you broke up the relationship, past caring about anything on earth, really.

Of course, FF has other issues which she should resolve first. But I see nothing wrong with two single people using sex to deal with grief. And I hope to gawd my girlfriend has sex with someone else should something happen to me, whether it be one of my friends (who are all awesome) or otherwise. Whatever helps her get through it.
70
@64 The early years weren't good, it really never was. PH and I started dating fresh out of highschool, and argued pretty much constantly. The sex was good - it was basically the only basis of our relationship. Birth control pill failure 2 months in, and I was pregnant with my first baby. Things didn't improve, we fought constantly over everything. He has always ignored every. single. one. of my emotional needs and then expects me to still fuck him at the end of the day. Like literally playing WoW for 28 straight hours without talking to me or our child. Our sex life went to crap about two years in due to growing resentments on my part, and we never overcame it. We went to counseling for a year at about the 5-year mark in out relationship but after switching counselors twice, nothing changed. I gave up. And when I mentioned his job in my original post, I can see how it made me look like a d-bag, but it's been a huge source of contention. He's been offered numerous chances for career growth and always turns them down or makes excuses and then blames me, his coworkers, his boss, etc. Then he blames me for not working when we have money issues. The thing people don't get is that an uneducated woman who works minimum wage doesn't even make enough to pay daycare. So what to do? I sucked it up for years and fucked him when he pleased and plastered a fake smile on my face and came to terms with this being my life...until I met my best friend and she changes my life. Told me I was good enough, made me want more, made me feel I deserved better. Now she's gone and I'm trying to do with my life what she'd want me to do. Fix it and stop making excuses and quit hurting the people I love. Time to wake up.
71
@64 Oops, missed the first couple of questions. He's upset right now so he's swinging wildly btwn "I'll always be here for you and the kids" to "If you are serious about this (breakup), you guys will never see me again". I'm trying to get my finances in order as best I can and I've reached out to friends and family.

@59 I really appreciate you coming back and reading my follow up and posting that. I do appreciate the point you're making, and I understand where you're coming from - we're only human, we all judge.

Another point i should have madr in my OP was that DBFBF seems so "safe" to me. Its no-effort like finding a random dude would be. Im vulnerable, and he knows me. I haven't had sex with anyone but PH since I had kids and have body image issues like most moms do. It feels like it would be nice to fuck someone who already knows me and won't emotionally destroy me. Or maybe he might.

And to the people who mentioned birth control, of course I will be protecting myself if I hook up with DBFBF, or anyone else.
72
@64 - FFGone, you made choices and you make choices. It still sounds as if you think things "just happen" to you. Stop choosing "no effort" choice that is directly in front of you. If you are committed to changing your life, change it. Don't fuck DBFBF. You just want it 'cause you're in pain, it's a bold stroke that will shake things up and it's easy. Go to school. Become self sufficient. Stop blaming everyone but your own damn self for your misery.
73
@70/71, thanks for explaining. I still wish there was a way for PH to give you more of what you need, but I can see that it's too late for that. Wishing you all the best now as you try to build a better life for you and your children.
74
Women grieve alone. Men grieve with someone else. At least Dan warned you to be realistic about the probability of you guys having anything other than a sexual relationship. When he works his way through his grief with you, someone familiar, he'll be ready to move on.
75
@71: "Another point i should have madr in my OP was that DBFBF seems so "safe" to me. Its no-effort like finding a random dude would be. Im vulnerable, and he knows me. I haven't had sex with anyone but PH since I had kids and have body image issues like most moms do. It feels like it would be nice to fuck someone who already knows me and won't emotionally destroy me. Or maybe he might."

Try pleasing yourself first until you get more grounded. You don't want to be stuck in anything too quickly after all you've gone through.
76
I see scant evidence of any planning or long term strategy unfolding in her life so far. I see plenty of casting of blame onto another for her circumstances. And finally, I see a disturbing interest in getting into a sexual relationship at a time in her life when she really needs to be focused on straightening her own decade of mistakes (yes, dear, your life is messed up because of your mistakes, not PH's) and her kids.

Put simply, she doesn't really have the luxury right now of spending lazy, hazy times humping a new lover. She needs to get her shit straight, and that will likely take at least a year or two.

And any thoughts she has along the lines of "Oh, well, new hump partner will maybe provide me with food, shelter, love, whatever...." looks a lot more like the same shit she pulled at 18 with PH than a 30 year old woman's mature approach to life.

But hey, if it is all about the orgasms, whatever, right?
77
@ 72...

Real shithead aren't you.
78
@ 77...
You see courage. I see cop out. Real charmer there with all your pretty words, aren't you.

xxoo
mr. bleeto
79
@64 - letter writer -

I would be more concerned with DBFB's intentions here, and honestly worried for you. He may have been a good support system; I am concerned about his emotional implications. No offense, but if my girlfriend committed suicide three weeks earlier, sex with her friend would not be a priority. Unless he has been pining after you for a while, which he may have been, and that kind of makes the situation even more disturbing, her death being his "ticket." It would be one thing if this was unplanned, angsty, teary, mutual pity fucking. It seems the emotional content has grown too strong to be considered typical, emotionally-intelligent human behavior...

good luck
80
Have y'all ever noticed how much everyone's tone of voice changes once the letter writer appears in comments? It's... hypocritical and sad.
81
@80: Actually, I think it's a good thing, if it means that people are really willing to listen and understand someone else's point of view once it's humanized by having the person engage in conversation.

It doesn't always happen like that: see DARE in this week's Savage Love, for instance.
82
@81: I agree with you on that part, but it would be nice if people regarded letter writers are human BEFORE they showed up in the comments, too. People will say "it's the internet!" but hasn't the internet been around long enough for people to realize that there are human beings on the other side of the keyboard? I don't know, I guess a lot of people find hysteria fun.
83
Two words: RESTRAINING ORDER! Get RID of that 'hubby' for good! Anyone who refuses to leave needs to be made to by court order.

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