and remember to be decent to everyoneall of the time.
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Move on guy, it'll get easier as you forget about her.
But she was too, so, move along.
Although just after the divorce is final, if you are feeling vindictive, be sure to send her a copy of the column which describes her, quite accurately, as a dishonest manipulative piece of shit who mistreated the man who married her. Because she is. And she ought to hear it from Dan.
Also, grow some self-respect. She just shit all over you and your relationship. Stop mooning after her. Be angry, be hurt, but tell yourself enough is enough and move on.
Get some self-respect already.
"we started having some major relationship problems, but I never quite knew what to do because I was in graduate school and very busy." I've been to grad school. It's stressful. It is not an excuse to shrug and say "I dunno" when your relationship is in trouble. If you have a busy lifestyle, you should pay extra attention to the health of your relationship, not less attention.
"I feel like marriage just fucked us up." He neglects to connect this to the fact that HE was the one who decided that marriage was the only way for them to be together at all.
"I'm a really great guy ... I can have any girl I want." #3 already sized up this little gem.
Again, the wife is the bigger asshole and an enormous coward. But I don't see any reason to let this guy think he's an innocent victim. They're well rid of *each other.* I hope next time he waits for a woman who will marry him because she is eager to be married to him, not because she's too much of a scrotum to accept being dumped.
I'd add, though, that you're partly responsible; for giving her the ultimatum of "marry me or I dump you".
you're a whipped pussy.
grow a pair and flush the slutty whore
out of your peanut sized brain.
Maybe somewhere else. Maybe back where you came from. You will eventually learn how to say "oh my god, it was a disaster, she really screwed me over" when people ask what the hell happened in Seattle.
But people screw up. You are not the only one. You'll get over it. But do not under any circumstances have sex with her, or communicate with her in any way. She's OVER. No going back, only forward.
I quibble with the notion that he was trying to get his needs met and stand by my assertion that he needs to gain some self-respect. Despite his claims that he's a great guy who can have any woman he wants (which is an absurd statement no matter who says it), I guarantee that he's the type of person who secretly knows or fears that he can't find a replacement for his current partner. Thus, his insistence on marrying someone who didn't really want him.
That lack of self-esteem also explains why he's still mooning over her.
Dump her assuming she doesn't care enough to marry him? Be unhappy and hope the relationship doesn't end?
She despises you, and you are better off without her. She is a real piece of shit.
As fnarf said above (and I can attest to, having experienced something similar when I was 28), your life will suck for about a year, you'll feel like someone kicked you in the stomach, but you'll start to grow as a person once again. Then, you'll be ready to move on and be mentally healthy enough to establish a new relationship.
This couple started floundering probably well before the marriage and move. Floundering is what people do. So is digging the hole deeper. I'm not sure either of these people really deserve to be called douchebags. All I hear here is pain.
Get out and make it better, dude. Suffering isn't our lot in life; recovering from suffering is. But you can't start recovering until you get out of the fire.
seriously though, the marriage ceremony should be to honor something that already exists. There's no magical superlove that comes with the wedding band.
Guy, these things happen. It's not that she's poly that makes this not work, it's that she lied to you. & you don't sound like you're gonna be happy in a poly relationship at all, to me. That's neither here nor there. This is a bad breakup, but it's a breakup. If you can afford to move, I would if I were you. & don't be afraid to be single for some time, either. Maybe you *could* have any girl - though I wonder about that - maybe you just want who you can't have. Why is that? Sort it out ala the Talking Heads. "How did I get here.." Don't be afraid to hear yourself & your own voice, for awhile.
The poly thing is a red herring. When she said she wanted to open up the relationship, what she meant was "I want out of the marriage but I don't have the guts to tell you that, so I'm going to turn things into a massive flaming trainwreck and make sure you end up feeling responsible." If you don't love your partner, it isn't polyamory.
I would add that marriage represents what should already be there and the commitment to changes that allow the relationship to continue.
To be dragged cross country in order to be dumped seems particularly harsh.
I am not unsympathetic, but "her and her friend went out to a bar" annoys me every bit as much as it annoys gloomy gus up there at #6. Did he write like that in his thesis? I probably would have smacked him with a seventh-grade grammar textbook before I let my friend take me out to a bar.
Realistically, though, an entire series of mistakes were made here, and the guy should just cut his losses and call it a lesson learned.
Or else drunk.
This dude, and his soon-to-be-ex-wife, sound pretty nomally hapless to me. Cut 'em both some slack.
And then read it again. And again. And again.
He laid out what he wanted, a commitment or the end of the relationship, and she chose to make the commitment. Apparently, she couldn't foresee how she'd feel about this a year later, and if she couldn't, how could he?
She made a mistake, married someone she didn't really love, fucked him over, and now she's trying to cover her tracks. This is pretty straight forward stuff.
@3: A genuine douchebag would be fucking her over, not the other way around.
This LW should move, IMO, & just take himself off the market while he straightens his head out. People like the LW's now-wife sound tend to burn bridges & not look back.
You're describing a fear that has been experienced at some point or another by pretty much every guy on the planet who's been dumped. Of course he's afraid he'll never find someone like her - he and every other guy who was just abandoned by a woman he completely fell for. That's how it feels to have a broken heart.
Perhaps you're one of the lucky or wise few who've never experienced having someone you love walk out on you (my wife has never been dumped, either), but try to have a little empathy for those of us mere mortals who have.
How can you know that the "I can have any girl I want" bit isn't just a little bit of hopeful reassurance to himself? I've been in (roughly) his position, and it feels like crap. The one person who was supposed to want you, it turns out, doesn't. His confidence has probably taken a severe hit, and he needs to hear stuff like that, even from himself, to feel okay about the future. That, or, having just laid out the completely humiliating way in which his 7-year relationship ended, he feels the need to let anyone who reads the letter know that it's not because he's worthless or unlovable.
Cut the guy some slack. Not everyone with a little insecurity is a douchebag, and this guy pretty plainly came by his insecurity honestly, at least in the short-term.
She is not going to do that. Get clear on this. Once you are one hundred percent clear that this is the sort of crazy that people don't recover from, you can let go and move on.
Personally, I'm wondering why you were the one who moved out. You should have waited for her next disappearing act to change the locks and leave her stuff on the sidewalk along with the moving boxes. Unlike you, she won't be couch-surfing.
Plenty of people have done stupid self-destructive things they regret in their 20s (or 30s, or 40s...). I wouldn't have been surprised to see a letter from the wife - in fact, I'm reminded of a relatively recent letter from a woman who got married, then immediately regretted it and started chasing another man, despite her husband's objections, resulting in the end of their relationship.
In a sense, most marriage proposals are a type of "ultimatum". One partner is putting himself out there and stating that he is ready for marriage, hoping his significant other will feel the same. If the person being proposed to declines, the marriage-minded person can:
1) Wait around hoping his partner has a change of heart.
2) Resign himself to the idea of never getting married.
3) Break up with the person and look for someone else who actually wants to get married.
I think a break up is the most likely outcome in the event of a declined proposal. Marriage is a wedge issue.
@31: Unfortunately, now that gay marriage is becoming legal and accepted in more and more places, gay people will probably start growing up with the delusion that marriage can magically fix a broken relationship.
People get into long term/deep sexual relationships without being friends first? Wow, I just figured out my only major dumping. It seems so basic that you would be friends, and yet..I just realized that we weren't almost 30 years later. We worked on creating things we had in common, but that isn't the same.
Anyway, about the LW. If his wife has the job, does he have health insurance through her, is she the type to run up credit card debt on the common account(s), who paid out the most into the common assets, etc. In Seattle how do you sell an apartment's worth of stuff? How about some practical advice for the LW from those that know?
To the LW: Get it together, you need to determine your fallback position and recover as much of your common assets as possible. Since your wife has the job you came to Seattle for, she probably carries your insurance: tell her to continue your coverage as compensation for her dragging you cross country, at least until you get your own coverage (given that you are a newly minted graduate, this could take a while). So, maybe hold off on the legal termination until you have the most benefit.
Right out of Grad school, and into the fire. Get a job (comensurate with your degree) ASAP, the search will be a good outlet to help you focus in a positive direction. Strongly consider finding a position as near as possible to friends and family, you're going to need them (loneliness is easy to ignore while you're focussed on a relationship's problems).
That is how they get rid of men. You were gotten rid of.
Oh, and all you un(der)employed English lit majors griping about his writing? It is a good thing the internet came along, so that people can no longer pants you for being a prat in person.
I do not think I have enough data to judge either, but I feel bad for both of them (Based solely on the letter) for the lack of humanity displayed by the spouse and the lack of self worth by the letter writer.
Moving to a brand new place hundreds (or thousands) of miles from family, friends, etc., is extremely stressful, even when it is primarily positive - as mine was. Please don't discount this as a factor in this particular breakup.
His crappy wife just didn't have the balls to leave him when he gave her the chance.
I guess if a man does it, it's creepy and manipulative. But if a woman does it, she's just taking control of the situation and asking for a decision. Pretty sexist gang.
"Two months ago when she expressed her dissatisfaction I asked her what she wanted and needed. And, she said she wanted to see other men romantically. I started talking about divorce, but she assured me she just wanted to have some fun. So I said ok."
That's hardly controlling behavior on his part.
No. It's not over. The contract is still enforceable by the courts in the sense of "if we split up, this is how our stuff is divided." And if both people want to stay together, then they need to figure out how to talk to each other about their expectations. One person suddenly needing to open up the marriage is not so different from one person suddenly needing to give full-time care to a parent, or being transferred to another city, or getting called up from the Reserves, or becoming a paraplegic. In a long marriage, serious issues are bound to come up. The question is whether you can find ways to deal with them together. If not, you split up. But until the person honestly puts their needs on the table, you can't even find out whether you can find ways to come through it together.
But 54 is right, that's likely to be her story. The "he couldn't handle an open relationship" line only works with people who are in open relationships themselves - ie, probably not their families.
I hope for her sake he turns out to be as wonderful in person as he was over the internet. (Okay, actually, I don't wish that at all. I hope she gets a rude awakening.)
If this person reeeeeallly loves you and really respects how important it is to you to marry (because you've told them, right?), he or she'd come around without a threat. Or, they sit you down and explain how really, really important it is to THEM not to marry. If you want to be with that person, sometimes that's something *you* might have to accept. (If we can strong-arm people into marrying, surely we can do the same for not marrying?)
What does it say when a person suddenly says yes after a deadline has been issued? Like, oh, I thought you were kidding; *now* I know you're serious!
I'm sure it's worked out for many couples, but myself, it's not something I'd go for. I can't risk believing it's "just jitters" for either him or me and that marrying might just fix it.
Gay or straight, when your relationship is opened up, the cardinal sin is lying, keeping secrets, deceiving. You cannot build a foundation of trust on lies. I don't disagree that marriage counseling is out of the question. It would be a last straw, perhaps, but it just might yield a way of gaining a sense of peaceful closure on a relationship that is going nowhere. There's an outside change that counseling could make things work, could turn it all around, but that takes the commitment of both people to show up at the counselors office and commit to a few rounds of professional intervention. Regardless of which direction you eventually take, a counselor can smooth it out and get your head into a positive frame of mind.
I really shudder to write this. I'm a parent of someone going through a similar situation and I am distraught beyond words over it. It hurts when two people you love deeply are in turmoil. You wish you had a magic formula to make it all better. There is one: they have to do it and they both have to want to. If one doesn't want to, the other one needs move on.
Last word: Five years from now, it might be of benefit to you to be able to say you at least seriously offered to go to counseling with your wife. I'm a big one for trying to live my life who I won't have regrets in the future. So, for what's it worth, consider the counseling.
I don't think there's one person who is the perfect Prince Charming for each Cinderella. I think people have chemistry with quite a number of possible partners, and if in addition you live well together, then you can build a lifetime of love and passion on that. But only if you start by being honest about what you're hoping to find together.
Refusing to commit is fine if the two of you are happy idling in an apartment owned by someone else, with no kids to worry about, and separate checkbooks. Moving forward with some of life's bigger decisions, like the ones mentioned above, requires something more in the way of commitment, because they entail a larger degree of personal entanglement. Would you have a kid with someone who refused to commit to the relationship?
Yes, I know that marriage is no guarantee of commitment, and people can walk away from that too -- but at least it's a promise. When someone isn't even willing to promise, that says something.