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That said, I forgive you, Dan.
:-(, :-(, and more :-(
Someday I'll understand how someone who can be such an awesome advice columnist and righteous gay rights leader can also be a big fucking 47 year old baby, too. That day is not today.
I dine out a lot and in the last 20 years, I have left a zero tip maybe 5 times, and each time is was appropriate.
Do you think the insult was appropriate?
I know a lot of us are Dan Trolls, but I don't really see how he's such a bad person for the post - it was posted elsewhere (not just on facebook, but on jezebel and the Seattle PI) and he didn't say "go get 'em" - just commented on the story in progress.
the line out posts, on the other hand..
Look, Dan is clearly semi-repentant. There's no need to viciously add 20 years to his age.
and whatever...I have plenty of friends whom I'd like to see apologize for this flame war over Dan Savage.
Of course your post said "Go get him." Why else would have posted his full name, and what you thought was his place of employment?
Not leaving a tip and making rude comments is simply not the worst things in the world. And rude comments are the easiest thing to deflect. Adults know that people who make rude comments are generally immature; mature people can shrug a rude comment off.
The waitress took it to a level that was entirely inappropriate, and did herself and her business a disservice. Then everyone leaps on the wrong man; threats of actual bodily harm were posted. Who knows what messages they may have sent privately. Maybe they screwed up his email or phone; maybe a prospective employer saw the comments on the FB page. Maybe he's now being stalked. Maybe he'll be physically attacked. And you don't sound sympathetic at all.
How do you even know the waitress didn't write that comment on the slip herself, to make her complaint more "valid"?
I guess you only have empathy for people you like. If it's a gay teen being bullied, that's bad. But you don't like "Andrew" so it's okay to bully him. Hypocrite.
I'd have felt sorry for that waitress if she hadn't gone online about it. But slapping the guy back so harshly about it, tagging the wrong person, and sounding about as sorry about it as you do was just wrong. It made such a big fuss out of something so minor. She's worse than he is, really. As are you.
The only thing Andrew is guilty of is a lack of tact.
Dan's snarky smug shitass advice to Andrew: "my point; that we live in a different world now. Be an asshole if you like, treat people like shit, accuse someone falsely. But you might not want to write your assholery down and post it and sign your name to it, you know? Because the Internet"
wow.
talk about biting yourself in the ass.....
I live in a small town. Dropped my car off to get new tires, the guy says "I'll give you a ride home, I'm going by your place anyway" - I've never seen him before, but he knows where I live. Go into a restaurant I eat at maybe once every three years, and the cook says "agony's order's ready" when my food comes up. That's just what it's like, living in a small town; we take it into account when we think about acting like assholes. We know that we won't get away with it.
Dan was pointing out that the wider world is becoming more like a small town. He's right, and I don't really see that he has much to apologize for.
@32, Yes, I"m sure she's making changes today based on his helpfully intended advice. Because everytime someone calls somone else fat, it's only meant to be helpful--so this must be the first time she's ever heard such sage advice, otherwise she'd be skinny by now! Especially brave when left behind on a note. Not cowardly at all.
It's all about intent. no tip, and a cowardly insult left on the bill? He meant to hurt her. A mean, petty little man who didn't have the guts to complain to her face.
god, I hope not, small towns are usually banal, boring, limiting, backbiting and petty tiresome shit ass places to be. sort of like facebook.
Much in the same way that people with authority shouldn't be allowed to intrude into people's sex lives, people with authority shouldn't be allowed to intervene in a one-on-one tip dispute.
He linked to the FB where all of this was going on, including the mis-identification of some poor schmoe with the same name. Without any corroboration, this was reckless. It contributed to the schmoe's struggles.
I agree with Agony's point that Dan was trying to get at the idea that in a world with less anonymity, being a jerk in public can have public consequences. However, by irresponsibly linking to the FB page and using the guy's whole name, Dan fueled the fire. He also altered his post, first using strike-throughs and then simply deleting some inflammatory material. This isn't illegal, but it is unprofessional, unethical, and slimy.
Housekeeping--not Retraction. 'Small Role' . "he he, finger the guy" 52-80's right; this is a nonpology.
But that being said, she should put her pride away and recognize the tip for what it is - good advice. Unless she dies in an accident of some sort, her obesity will likely be the cause of her death at some point. This is the part that people seem to be missing. She Will Die from being fat. I'd say dealing with a bit of wounded pride should take priority over dying.
aka; the "new media" model. it is what it is.
We only know one side of the story. There is a reason why the courts give both sides a chance to explain their story in a situation - because listening to only one side of the story biases the listener.
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/ima…
Dan, I've been reading you since at least 1995, maybe before, I don't remember. & you have acquired the enviable 'net power of Flying Monkeys. I've seen the tone of your writing become a touch less strident while still maintaining its humor - & that's a fine line to walk. It's disingenuous to say you didn't send your monkeys after Andrew Meyer. Not in so many words, maybe.
If the point is, we're all online now & our words/actions can be seen, because the Internet..that also goes for the guy whose playground it is.
& now for something completely different. I hope.
***
Ya know, I'm a chubby chick who used to tend bar. I heard some things about my weight. I also got some mad fat tips. *shrug* There were good days & bad days. I think what the Bad Andrew did was crappy, but frankly, I don't think much of the response, either. I woulda been so fired if I did something like that in retaliation for a slight at work.
@54 - you are projecting your motivations onto the girl herself. Maybe you are right - maybe she did nothing wrong and therefore felt mistreated. But you cannot know that - maybe she was the rudest waitress ever, and he decided to get her back in a way that made him laugh. We really have no way of knowing without hearing his side of the story (which as far as I know, we haven't).
There is no defense, you are a world-class douche.
Tip your bartender, or there will be consequences: sometimes you'll get watered down drinks, sometimes the Internet will collectively call you an asshole.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/201…
and I love those faux clutching-my-pearl-necklace-and-rolling-my-eyes attitude... Wonder if some one had left the following remark... "you could be less faggy if you want to" I wonder what the self righteous @1 @8 @18 @67 ....would have done...
As I said way up top, I was ready to forgive - until Dan changed the headline, calling it a "pogrom" and showing he didn't really take this seriously at all. (The original headline featured no such word.)
I'm not going to waste time on persuading the usual sycophants, but Vince, you really seem to have a big moral blind spot here.
What a bunch of tools. To paraprhase this weeks master of douchebaggery while applying his ire int eh right direction rather than the wrong one, you all could stand to lose a little priggishness, a little self-righteousness. And of course, if you are so horrified, Stop reading and posting.
You know what? A person gets to post about an asshole who ruined their day on their facebook page. That's part of what it's for. Some things go viral. This spark of Andrew Meyer assholery tapped a vein of indignation and blew up like a fire in a dry field of wheat. The cause remains the spark of assholery. The wind is merely the conditions which spread it.
And of course, the real douche Andrew Meyers could have stepped forward with his own apology at any time, but I suppose the kind of guy who leaves nasty little barbs to the server on his receipt lacks the courage.
You are a complete tool, Dan Savage. All puffed up with faggot pride as you lambast some innocent on the internet for messing with your precious popular bartender. I hope she gets canned for her part in this, since you're obviously not going to suffer any ill effects.
Anyone with with a clue knows the right Andrew Meyers deserves it. Of course I think someone could have verified which one they were talking about.
If he weren't such a small person, he'd be a fantastic spokesman for the LGBT community. Instead, he's petty, he can't control his mouth, and he thinks insincerity is funny. A handful of appearances on the teevee that he always derides, and that'll be it. He'll be back to giving relationship advice, which is a great pursuit, but when you think what he might've been able to contribute to the national discussion...
It's going to have to be someone else.
Way to prove my point, orcas.
But please don't feel you now have to post another five indignant posts responding to me and bashing Dan some more. :)
It is inevitable that a smug asshole prick will self destruct;
Dan's meltdown on Mayer where he fantasized about raping Santorum was his last appearance on TV, this is another embarrassing nail in the coffin of his attention whore 15 minutes....
Did our little danny Bear False Witness?!
That's a commandment, danny.
And it's way worse than buttsex or raping your kid.
'cause there ain't no commandments about buttsex or raping your kid.
You might as well rape the kid when he gets home from school, danny.
It wouldn't be as bad as Bearing False Witness.
This seems like the modern day version of a public stoning, and it's making a lot of us kinda sick to our stomachs. Please stop the verbal abuse.
We can be better people than this.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=173_13185…
Honestly, that's not what's infuriating, though. What's infuriating is that he made a mistake and isn't owning it. He's offering a fauxpology, making light of the damage caused by the flames he helped fan and showing all the maturity of a 9 year old who put his chewing gum in another kid's hair.
Over the years, I've come to accept that this is part of who he is. We can't have Dan, the guy who made Rick Santorum an unelectable joke, without Dan, the guy who constantly jumps the gun before getting all the facts. Dan, who co-created (and probably deserves sole credit for making possible) the It Gets Better project, which likely was motivated by the same impulse that made him smear a King5 reporter as a goat fucker when she issued a sloppy story. His good work is so good that I just have to take the shit too.
Like I said, I hope to someday understand this; maybe it won't piss me off so much then.
Of course not.
Don't forget readers - Danielle is not a journalist, she was a theater major. It's all about the drama, ethics be damned
Success!
The problem here was the fact that there is more than one Andrew Meyer. The Andrew Meyer who actually did this deserves all of the ridicule and calling out that he gets. He is an immature, nadless wank job.