Hoo boy, you think co-opting takes energy - it's even harder to dis-co-opt-erate. Good luck.
Hate to see this movement lose focus because of an asshole 1%.
I knew this would happen. The radical, violent, cop hating extremists are bad for everyone and have their own agenda. Either the OWS leadership regains control or there will be problems. Tell the extremists to take their hate and violence somewhere else and publicly disavow them and their tactics now.
Black bloc, really? C'mon Seattle "Anarchists", this is not the time or place.
Fascist Anarchists - I never thought they could really exist, but it sure seems like they do.
What you are describing sounds very much like what seems to be happening with Occupy Oakland. Many of the original campers there have left, citing fear from the thuggish element which has taken over, occupants have armed themselves with wooden staffs and are holding classes in how to wield them in confrontations with the police, I saw video of their "security" folks threaten to break a news crew's camera if the crew tried to enter the area.

I would not be at all surprised if some of this is fomented by agents provocateur. I know a lot of this went on back in the day that this old fart was on the front lines, and really expect to see it now in order to discredit the movement.
Odds that some of the "Anarchists" are working for the police: nearly 100%.
Hatred breeds hatred. Meh, expected this to happen eventually.
@7 -- damn straight. I love how undercover cops try hard to whip up antagonism towards the other cops to make it all about the cops. "It's all about me!"
Look. People are anarchists, like it or not. People have powerful, radical beliefs like it or not. When you participate in direct confrontations with powerful forces al la "occupy" those people are going to come to because they have the same stake and the same concerns as everyone else. Perhaps they have a different end game, but it's a defensible position with a long historical precedent.

Anarchists did not "infiltrate" the GA. They were part of it from the beginning as they have been in almost every city with an occupation. If you sat down and thought about it for a minute, you could have called their presence from a million miles away. Of course anarchists would want to come to the occupation. I mean, they kind of invented the strategy decades ago.

The fact is, the passive liberalism present at these events is a diluted tendency that came directly from anarchist movements of previous generations. Now anarchists and non-anarchists must work together or fail apart. Instead of getting mad, try to understand and find common ground. Demand that they do the same. I think you'd be surprised by the results of active collaboration.

No one can work with unreasonable people, anarchist or not. It has been my experience that the least reasonable people at the occupation have been those most interested in precluding dialogue and making mass social change appear as sanitary as possible. It can't be done. There can't be an honest conversation about bank corruption with concurrent dialogue about the police system that defends the banking system. I mean, duh. I would posit that the unwillingness to meet anarchists, members of your community same as you, on their terms the same way you'd want anyone to meet you on, is the actual problem.

Our general assembly happens daily at 6:30 p.m., except on Tuesdays and Thursdays, when it's at 7:30 p.m. (result of proposal a few days ago to accommodate those who live in the suburbs and/or have difficulty making the earlier meetings for other reasons), at Westlake Park. Everyone (except, technically, police, though I believe this is unenforceable) is welcome. The Process and Facilitation Working Group meets daily at 4:30 p.m. near Romax on the east side of the park. Proposals to be presented at the GA should be submitted in writing by 5:00 p.m.

Phil Andrews spread the idea yesterday that a general assembly was scheduled for 7:00 p.m. at City Hall Plaza. Of course, any group of people can convene and call their gathering a general assembly, but the group that have been meeting since our first GA at the Federal Building on September 30 are meeting on the schedule I described above. I don't know Phil, and I don't know anything about his intentions, but his actions yesterday caused confusion. If threats to him were made, I hope those with first-hand knowledge will bring it up at the GA. Such would be a violation or our principles of accountability.
It's over, guys. Your "movement" is in the hands of kooks like @10. That's the message now: "no cops". Not just "no cops here now today at Westlake" but "no cops period".

You misinterpreted the message issue. It's not that you didn't have a message, or that no one knew what it was, in the grand, overarching sense; that was never a problem. Call it income inequality or whatever you want. The message you were lacking is RIGHT NOW'S message. You're in the park 24/7, you've got to have something to talk about, something to say, something to protest every minute of that time, and you can't do it. No one can. So you fall silent, and here come the crazies to fill that void.

You're also too obsessed with your stupid "General Assembly" and the process by which you establish a process for establishing processes, which no one in the real world gives two shits and a train whistle about. In the meantime, you lost track of what you're doing, which is, I dunno, protesting Wall Street? What happened to that?

And now it's too late. The crazies own your movement. Get out now, and let the cops sweep them up and drive them back into their holes.
Also, if the anti-cop vote was 102 to 10, it's not a handful, it's 90 percent kook.
@6, so you're saying that this technique is more than 40 years old, and you all saw it coming, but haven't ever tried to figure out a way to stop it happening? Some revolutionaries.

If you're right, then the cops are snickering to each other and saying "hey, Dave, it's your turn to put on the black hoodie and go down and foment some trouble". Yet you never learn?
@10: Police are part of the 99%. How does Saturday's needlessly divisive rally help unify the 99% and help the Occupy movement further its goals?

Some people are anarchists, sure. But most of the 99% are not. Some anarchists have a nuanced view on police, knowing that for every bad apple there are hundreds of officers dedicated to your safety. Some anarchists can't get over the 'fuck-the-police' mentality no matter what. I am afraid the latter will rule at the rally.

Occupy Seattle is pretty clear on what's okay and what isn't. Blanket anti-cop sentiment and actions don't mesh with this:…
@13, fuck yeah! I was there and voted for the proposal myself. People who haven't been down at Westlake after 10pm can't understand the impact the police have been having on disrupting the "occupation"--in fact they make it nearly impossible. Yesterday they even threatened to arrest a native man who was doing a ceremony on a blanket on the ground. According to them this is showing intent to camp, which is illegal.

A lot of people are being lumped into the category of "anarchist", including MOST of the people of color who have chosen to work with Occupy Seattle despite the racism and barriers they face. The police-free zone proposal was one brought forth by the POC group because many people of color DO NOT FEEL SAFE surrounded by police, let alone a bunch of liberal police-sympathizers. If you actually look at the history of the police, it's clear to see why: the institution arose from strike-breaking types like Pinkertons who killed and brutalized workers and from slave-catchers in the south. Read Our Enemies in Blue if you want to learn more. Like dangerousgift said, you cannot talk about changing the wealth distribution in this country (or even separating corporations from the state) without considering the role the police will play and ARE ALREADY playing in preventing any sort of serious change: that of crushing resistance. This is one of the most important aspects of their institutional role in this society. Yes, people yell at the police at Westlake when they come in, shine their lights in our faces, kick us through our tents when we even have them (only a few nights since the beginning), ticket and harass people for sitting on blankets, push people around, etc, etc, etc. Over the course of the past few weeks, I have seen changes come over lots of occupiers--formerly hippy dippy cops-are-the-99% folks have changed their tune, seeing what the cops are doing. That is why the police-free zone proposal passed with such a super-majority.
Non-hierarchical self-organization, direct action, occupation... all these things are what anarchists have been encouraging for a long, long, long time. Now that a few liberals jump on the band-wagon, we are considered the outsiders? It just doesn't make any sense. But I'm not surprised considering that the american education system hides the history of anti-capitalist/anti-authoritarian struggle in the US and teaches obedience and rote-memorization of empty factoids instead of critical-thinking.
LOL way to go, you goofy Libtards!
This is a silly, divisive paranoia. Of course the police are going to be a major topic, since they are taking our tents, umbrellas, blankets and now even our food. Of course there is going to be confrontation with the police, who are being ORDERED to be confrontational! But that's far from being able to say that this is turning into an "anti-cop" movement. If Occupy Seattle is just an anti-cop movement then so is Occupy Wall Street, where a focus on police crackdowns and holding Zuccotti park against the wishes of mayor Bloomberg have been central from almost the beginning. Nor is this saturday's event in opposition to police brutality the result of an invisible scheme by "anarchists," it was planned out far in advance of the occupations and is occurring in multiple cities across the country.

There is simply a dissatisfaction among some that the more centrist proposals have been routinely voted down in General Assemblies by the majority of people present. There also has been a distinct shift visible in who is present at Westlake park, but it is not an "infiltration" by anarchists. It is instead the increasing presence of non-whites, who, as mentioned above, have formed the People of Color Caucus. It is not a racist caucus, nor is it dividing us. There was an impassioned speech on Wednesday night by several young white supporters of the POC's proposal, arguing that what is in the interest of the POC is also in the interest of the working class generally.

As for the constant anarchist-baiting: If The Stranger feels the need to print this type of divisive letter, I hope they will also feel the need to come and talk to members of Anarchist groups and self-identifying radicals at the occupation. There are a number of detailed publications from these groups explaining their own position -- a position which accepts the non-violent, broad-based nature of the Occupation and which explicitly encourages engagement with moderates. Please, interview some on the other side! And again, to reiterate what was said in 10: This is not some conspiratorial "infiltration." Leftists have been in this movement from the very first General Assemblies and have never been shy about self-identifying as such. There have been Anarchist and Socialist tables up since the very first week.
@10,@16,@18- How'd that whole WTO thing work out for you?
There have been Anarchist and Socialist tables up since the very first week.

Which is why you suck and you will lose.
Having been down to Occupy Seattle and participated in the POC caucus group (as well as having been around a few other events this past year where militant anarchists have confronted police), my observation is that the "anti-cop" folks aren't monolithic.

There are anarchist folks who are into confronting the cops, and have a very strident position that effectively treats cops as a abstract and absolute enemy. Sometimes they provide context for why, but frequently, they simply talk about police as an abstraction, and resistance to police becomes increasingly defined as a willingness to actively engage in fights with cops.

However, many of the folks of color have been pushing the GA to recognize that there is a difference between how OS folks of color and white OS folks have been treated by the police when raids happen, that this difference is typical of how the police operate regularly, and that seeing folks treat the same cops who do this racial targeting, who arrest folks for camping and who do all kinds of things --flashing lights, making loud noises, continual threatening arrest -- to anyone trying to sleep in Westlake during the early morning hours (even without a tent) as if they are friends or allies requires some level of cognitive dissonance. And add to that specific folks who have already been victimized by the police or had family members who have. It's only reasonable for those folks to ask that OS consider their sense of safety -- that is, if OS wants them to be present and supporting the protest -- when sorting out a position on how to interact with the police as a group . Those folks aren't asking OS to fight or confront the police to make Westlake "cop-free", they are asking that folks express solidarity for them by not interacting with the police in a way that diminishes that history, the fact that cops' job is to disrupt OS, and that likely interacting with them will serve that purpose in some way. The point's been made over and over again that it's one thing to concede that individual cops may be fine people (which the anarchist folks wouldn't even concede), but that their work is basically to disrupt OS. Same with Bank of America -- there are likely lots of nice people working there, but as an institution, the purpose is to make profits, even if that hurts people.

And yes, folks are also being thoughtful about how obsessing about police presence is disrupting other productive activities OS could be doing, but the constant police presence and somewhat miserable conditions (cold, wet, no really good sleep) there makes it somewhat understandable that folks feel somewhat on edge.

And yes, it's likely there are undercover cops in the ranks of protesters, too. Folks think about that, but are focusing on the visible cops, as a more productive way of dealing with such anxieties.
This letter is ridiculous. No one person can speak for Occupy Seattle nor for the so-called hundreds which represent any side of radicals versus non-radicals. A dichotomy that I'm not sure even exists. Granted there are radicals and people who don't identify with radicalism. While at the same time there are plenty of people who fall in between those two spectrum. If you're present at the GAs you'd see that radicals are present with their own ideas as well as many other people who different ideas, we're all voicing those and discussing them. The super majority voted to pass the cop free zone proposal. It passed and those 100 people that voted for it, I'm sure are not all radicals. They can think for themselves. So, on another note the "anti-cop" proposal is not about individuals ideological views about the police. It's about strategy. It is not in our interest to engage and allow the cops to participate in our movement or even in or GA or our space. Whether you like them or not, for the purpose of sustaining the movement they should not be welcomed because their job is to crush it. It's strategic to not help them do that.
112 people? That's it?
Dominic, I encourage you to check out the minutes of the GA meetings, which are posted on the Occupy Seattle Website. There, you will find that the call for a "cop free zone" was explicitly peaceful and non-violent. Please, check your facts before reporting.

Also, the worldwide Oct 22 anti-police brutality movement thing isn't organized by anarchists. Again, please check your facts before reporting.
@24, it's a revolution. See, that's how "direct democracy" works -- 112 people shouting in the street get to decide what 300,000,000 people should do. I think I'd rather be raptured. Except I'm a heathen. Oh well, I guess I'll go on living my life. Have a nice assembly, guyz.
I love how Dominick Holden continues to report on only one perspective and opinion from the Occupy Seattle movement. For those of us who have been down there almost every day, it's quite clear that he is attempting to paint a picture of the anarchists and other radicals that doesn't quite match up with reality. Simply because ONE person sends you a letter doesn't mean that the whole of the occupation is against the radicals. In fact, the radical people have often times been the ones leading and expanding this movement, but you wouldn't know that simply from seeing these extremely one-sided reports. The movement is made up of many different groups: Liberals, socialists, anarchists, communists, and even libertarians. But from Dominick's reporting, you'd think that it's just a ton of liberals with a small little group of anarchists attempting to subvert everything. This slog article is quite simply slander and bad reporting. You should be ashamed of yourself, Dominick! Oh wait, I forgot you're probably trying to kiss the ass of the Mayor.
trstr -- Dominick isn't simply not checking his facts. This bad reporting is purposeful and aimed at squashing support for the more radical elements of this movement, so it can be turned into a nice little election scheme for the Democrats, Dominick's best buddies. So much for journalistic integrity!
If they pause for a moment, they might realize their playing exactly into the cops' hands by marching against them.
So let me get this straight...

You let the cops antagonize you, which they have been doing in order to divide you and turn you anti-cop. Thereby making most of the public unwilling to support you as you give in to the violent sections...

So you're telling me you played right into their fucking hands like the amateur, immature, protesters you are.

Congratulations are in order for the Police. They won in WTO, they won Occupy Seattle.
@15 "Some anarchists have a nuanced view on police, knowing that for every bad apple there are hundreds of officers dedicated to your safety." - no anarchist holds that view, a sensible anarchist view would be to realise that bad apples and good apples are irrelevant, it's the social role of the police which matters, and the part of that role which is "protect the property of the rich" is the part that always ends up being the most important in situations like these. The other part that matters is "people put into positions of authority or power over other people will always eventually abuse it"... as we've seen many times with the SPD.
This whole thing has disintegrated. For a bit, you had a chance to catch the attention of the majority, but, now, with the dumbshit anarchist kids taking over, you're all a joke.
@21 & 22 - Thank you! I'm not sure how it's a contingent of "radicals" and "anarchists" who are "anti-cop" when an overwhelming majority of occupiers supported the proposal.

On Monday, a woman sat down on the ground with an open umbrella. She was arrested by the police after she refused to comply with their demands to cease and desist. They claim she was arrested for not following the "structure" portion of the camping law. Think about what that means. That means that no citizens are allowed to sit down with an open umbrella in any public park in Seattle, if the police are merely trying to "enforce the law". I think we can see past this facade. The police are actively trying to stop this movement. Our first amendment rights are being taken away and the "pro police" crowd doesn't seem to realize it.

Read this post, by Naomi Wolf, about being arrested by the police in New York:…

Also, I am not an anarchist. I am a middle-class white male.
Well. Never saw this coming.
@30 the world did not see the WTO as a victory for the Police, only particularly confused Seattle liberals see it that way.
Fucking A. I finally had time and means to join Occupy Seattle this weekend, and now I don't want to.
Anarchists exist outside of middle school?

It's also sad to see people just give up and go back to being trod on just because of a group of people trying to take over the message. If you don't want them to do that, you STAY AND FIGHT, you don't roll over and go back home.
In my estimation, the police around here are way, way too timid...under Greg Nichols, South Seattle (as well as S King County) was allowed to exist as a Free Fire Zone...for many reasons including building up the cost of downtown real estate.

Now that its come undone we are left with a great compression, most would benefit if the police swept the streets of the violent types.

A safe city and county helps the 99% percent more than anything.

I would completely disassociate myself from the anti.police crowd.
What a pathetic display of selfishness this is. Anyone with any sense at all would quietly leave the movement or gather with like minded individuals and try to brainstorm on ways to address any issues they may be having Instead this person has left with an epic flame out amongst the Occupy Seattle group and is now crying to the media. I can't believe this person think this is about THEM to this level. What an appalling lack of solidarity and I say it's a good thing that this person left to cry in a corner.
@37 - From their attitude with dealing with police, I think it's clear those people don't have the backbone to "stay and fight".
The issue is less which group has infiltrated the GA today and more where the GA's are being held. You have a windswept plaza that has a constant destabilizing police (over) presence. What do you think the meeting dynamics are going to be like?

Unfortunately some political tendencies thrive better in this environment than others. Hence the alacrity in which that a call for a GA at City Hall Plaza was suppressed.
"Guys, I'm leaving! Sure, I hate non-coercive corrupt authorities as much as the next guy, but when you start questioning corrupt, coercive authorities...that's just a bridge too fucking far! Back to my Patagonia jacket and Daily Show!" - Typical Seattle "progressive"
The problem is that this event is not created by OWS but we were trying to respect the annual event. Nobody cleared through the GA the question of weather this event could share the name of OCCUPY WALL STREET.

That name was changed by an event planner for the People's Movement Rally with the POC Caucus and March Against Police Brutality

The problem is that this event is not created by OWS but we were trying to respect the annual event. Nobody cleared through the GA the question of weather this event could share the name of OCCUPY WALL STREET.

That name was changed by an event planner for the People's Movement Rally with the POC Caucus and March Against Police Brutality.
@ 43 -- And to what end? So that we can drop more bombs on the 16-year-old American citizen sons of suspected (American citizen) terrorists? So that we can pay to keep an army of mercenaries in Iraq even after the Nobel laureate-in-chief has been forced to bring home the ones in our uniforms?

End the wars, close down the bases in all of the countries around the world, slay the militaristic behemoth, and then maybe I'd be willing to listen to your "fight coercion by creating more of it" rhetoric at least a little bit.
Dominic: Bitterly funny that the media (Stranger) which feasts on a fringy editorial stance gets pissed when its interests are outflanked by even more extreme elements.

Note to Stranger Writers: The measure of your journalistic worth is not the accolades of Pabst-sucking, fixie-trucking, cardigan-sporting, irony-trading hipsters who greet you on the Hill. The disdain you feel for the fuck-nuts who antagonize police and co-opt the Occupy un-movement PALES in comparison to the regret many of us feel that our alternative community newspaper has been relegated to an uncritical, anti-intelligence host organism for dildo retailers, weed shops and bad sex ads.

Instead of taking-back Westlake from the cops, how about taking-back some integrity as a journalists with objective -- blazingly critical -- but still objective coverage of the news.

Mudede would quit. But, c'mon where's the harm in that?
@48 -- Really? Was the country on a fascist national security military industrial complex lockdown then? Because I kind of think I want that sort of "didn't work out so well."
I said this would happen, and was shouted down for being 'part of the problem.'
Don't lump socialists in with anarchists....

The police are part of the 99%. I will NOT be participating in or supporting the rally tomorrow.
@50 -- Fine, but 4% of GDP adds up to nearly what the rest of the world combined spends on defense. And how much on homeland security, how much on veterans benefits, how much on money used to "reconstruct" Afghanistan and Iraq? All of this is assuming it's only a matter of monetary costs. It's not. One of the reasons why we "need" such a high defense budget is because we have a bad habit of destroying Muslim countries that produce people who then want to attack us.
Blanket anti-police sentiment is as bad as any other stereotype or 'ism'. There are great cops, there are bad apples. Our society will always have some form of police - ideally less brutal, less militarized - but always there. I wonder if any of these fuck-the-police types have ever been robbed, hit by a drunk driver, or in a dv situation...
@54 Taken a whole the EU is close to us. I think we are 650b and they are about 400b. When you figure higher labor and material costs and the fact that we develop a lot technology used by our allies it starts to seem a bit less huge. Could certainly stand some cutting though.
Wow Fnarf. Just wow.
@43- The idea of protesting police brutality makes a lot more sense than marching against police.

Of course, the name of the march is The March Against Police Brutality, so actually it makes a lot of sense, even if some of the participants don't.
@35- The world saw the WTO events in Seattle as a clusterfuck, and they were entirely correct. It didn't change a damn thing, it's a failed model. You want a good model, look to Gandhi and the Civil Rights movement, just as much media coverage and it actually changed minds. Anyone who wants to violently confront the police or damage other people's property, they're a worse enemy of the movement than a violent cop.

Hell, the violent cop is the best friend of a non-violent movement. Nothing like some asshole macing a bunch of helpless people to demonstrate where the moral authority rests, and that's what will persuade people to get to the polls and vote LEFT.

There's not going to be a revolution in America because the situation doesn't warrant a revolution. This isn't a dictatorship, it's a flawed democracy that's drifting in the wrong direction. It takes a movement to push it back on the right path. Protests, media, a general strike... Great. Fighting in the streets? That's going to turn the unpersuaded away.
Turning toward violence in a situation like Occupy Seattle is simply juvenile, and will destroy the good will that has been engendered by the non-violence the occupiers have been so disciplined in practicing. Its plain stupid, and there's no analysis that can justify it as a tactic. Violence against property is used when you can't get any attention - we're getting attention. Violence against others is simply wrong - in any situation. Why stoop to the practices of the oppressors? Please don't let this happen.
Awh the downsides of consensus decision making. It's all good when everyone agrees wiith you. Of course when 10 people want to come off the street and change things, well then you're in trouble since 10 can have as much power as 200 when using a consensus decision making model. Secondly the I'm pretty sure the POC group wanted to change the name to Decolonize/Occupy Seattle while I wasn't there I did get their e-mail setting forth the reasoning. I only bring this up to say I find it interesting that you could remember how the "fight" went down but you couldn't remember of even look up the correct name change info before penning a letter off the Stranger. I guess they were important enough to mention but not important enough to get the name right. And while I understand your feelings surrounding the folks hijacking, I got to say I think it's funny how you keep calling them radicals . Given the the whole movement and all.
@60 FTW.

however this is not a 'flawed' democracy.

it works quite well.

it delivers the government the people want; or; through their apathy or greed; deserve.

it worked just fine for the teabaggers, thank you.

those who find it flawed are too naive or stupid or lazy to make it work for them.
and/or what they want is too far outside the popular will to be enacted.

hint hint.....
Listen... America is going to hell. We're not a democracy. We have one of the worst economic inequality situations. Our capitalism is shit. We're all in debt. The police serve the dollar and not the people. Humans mean less than profits and property. Many of us hand over our lives (/time) to these corporations with a smile slapped on by the brainwashing we allow to numb the pain that we all intuitively know we don't live in what America was suppose to be.

So, we can waste precious time posting letters about individuals having a hard time getting over their own comfort levels. Eventually that person, and most people, will realize that to change society we have to be strong and part of being strong is being able to deal with issues organically, as it is happening. Don't like the person yelling "Fuck the pigs"? If reminding yourself that you don't know what that person has been through in their life, that you can't understand why they would feel that much frustration to yell that, and that they have the sovereign right to do so, and that it is much less violent than someone keeping a gun on their holster .... doesn't work, well then wait for the atmosphere to calm a bit and then talk to them. Ask them why they yell it, ask them if they could refrain because you are worried that the police might use it as an excuse to start something, ask them to refrain because of the children, or learn why they are doing and realize it is the least of the problems that we need to be worrying about. We can worry about being polite when we rebuild society. And this has nothing to do with violence either. Yelling is not violent, police yell over megaphones all the time. Standing around or following isn't violent, police do that all the time. Be careful of the hypocrisy that society conjures a fog over to confuse the masses about what is right and wrong.

But, go ahead, fight, fight, fight amongst yourselves until you realize there's no one left... or start gathering true knowledge (like how true democracy works, what's a republic, what would a non-monetary society look like, etc.) to be ready to discuss for when we ALL have to rebuild society. We need everyone to be at their best, violent or peaceful! Occupy is a non-violent movement that has members that are comfortable with violence. We shouldn't censor these people because of their choice for the more militia-approach. They don't censor peaceful people either, they usually don't care to be convinced otherwise though because they've already made their choice! Actually, I wouldn't say peaceniks censor either, it's usually the people in the middle that pay attention to media and still believe in the system that blowup this violence vs peace argument. Because in my observations, the peaceniks and anarchists are more than respectful to each other, they are GOOD NEIGHBORS! I know I want both in the movement because both perspectives are important.
@60 - It's interesting how you feel you can say "they're a worse enemy of the movement than a violent cop" like you're part of Occupy when you're clearly not > "that's what will persuade people to get to the polls and vote LEFT", "There's not going to be a revolution in America because the situation doesn't warrant a revolution", "That's going to turn the unpersuaded away".

This isn't about persuasion, this is about what's happening. Unless you mean persuading people to be aware and engaged, which you're right is very hard. And how exactly do you define "movement" if not a revolution? This isn't about getting an amendment or a right to vote, this is about overthrowing the most corrupt parts of our society because if we don't, they will continue to take advantage of us until America is a shell of what it could have been.
@60: Exactly. Vainglorious violence never solves anything.

Sounds like you're a little bit insulted Bakunin, throwing a liberal slur at a leftist.

Maybe you should look at all the non-change and the nothing changed that was brought about by the WTO events.

Other than the WTO changing names and still existing, or more free trade agreements worldwide. Or more reformed and effective police tactics.

WTO was a loss Bakunin, no revisionist history can paint it otherwise.
I cried when they shot John Williams
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they foreclosed on my neighbor
As tho the cops evicted a father of mine
But those anti-police kids will get what is coming!
They'll get what they asked for this time!
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal!
Nervous Nell, it is interesting that a person in a movement that claims to speak for the 99% is telling others that they are not included because they are not radical enough. If we can remain focused on The interests of the 99% then there is a chance for some change. If this is just about a tiny group in a wind swept plaza feeling smug about their efforts while looking down on all the folks that walk past them on their way to work then this movement is over.
@69 - Phil did it better, and it scanned.

For all the high level analysis of world politics/economics, and who is and isn't to blame for the current world, I think some thought as to what constitutes violence may be in order. It seems to me that an action performed for the purpose of injuring self or others is a violent action. That would put yelling "fuck the pigs," into the category of a violent action. I guess y'all can take it from there, but it's non-violence that gives us the high ground.
This is NOT what democracy looks like. Democracy is not just difficult and complicated, democracy is impossibly difficult and impossibly complicated ... as the process fetishists will eventually rediscover for the umpteenth time. So be it.

Meanwhile, Occupy Wall Street struck a chord that rang around the world. Too bad if it hits a clinker in Seattle, but that won't extinguish the vibe.
If you feel nauseous from reading Dominic Holden's ridiculous analysis, take this:…
@73 Nice link. Addressing left colorblindness is crucial to building the 99%. To use Dominic's terms, how can folks of color, and the people that love them, get behind restoring an "Authority" that reproduces devastating inequities in incarceration, employment and educational achievement?

The discussion about the police is a touchstone in this larger conversation. By angrily refusing to engage this topic would-be Movement leaders sacrifice the chance to bring all of the 99% together.
Reminds me of the Republican / teaBagger houligans that disrupted the Health Care Town Hall meetings and succeeded in derailing the efforts. Look closer and you may find an elephant sucking on a tea bag.

Let's get all 1950's on the anarchists and tell them to "Be quiet the adults are talking."
What does GA stand for? The writer of the letter never explained what the abbreviation meant. Another example of the illiterate people who are associated with the Occupy Seattle movement.
@internet_jen That hasn't been working all that well. It's not just anarchists, it's a large contingent of the group that is not interested in any sort of compromise for the greater good of the group.

On this topic, I am agreed that this is a problem.

If this continues away from the central focus of separating corporate influence from politics and the way our current financial system is benefiting the 1% while screwing the other 99%...

...I will walk away from this.

If this continues, I encourage others to consider doing this en masse so that we may establish lines of communication with one another in order to continue our support for the 99% and Occupy OWS/Together movements.
I think most people have finally figured out this stupid protest is a waste of time.
Wow, what a load of crap. First a bunch of center-left/moderate activists show up and try to take the reins of Occupy ("The police are our friends! We should get politicians involved! Let's deliver our demands to the lawmakers!"), shouting down any and all opinions that voiced disapproval with these ideas - and then the very same people turn around and complain when, finally, the radical currents win out.
You've got to love that liberals have, since the beginning of this occupation, used every dirty trick in the book - holding secret meetings with the mayor without permission from the general assembly, negotiating with police on behalf of everyone without the general assembly, calling anyone who does not agree with them an "agent provacatuer" - but when Anarchists make a proposal at the general assebmbly and the participants VOTE OVERWHELMINGLY to support it, suddenly the anarchists are the ones "taking over." Unbelievable whitewashing on the Strangers part.
"Infiltrate." 102-10.
"we all want to change the world
but when you talk about destruction
don't you know that you can count me out..."
Yeah, wait, remind how it is that the overwhelming majority (102 out of 112, according to the article itself) constitutes a "contingent" of "agitators"? It seems like a lot of people just happen to think that the police are not the allies of the Occupation, and a small minority of people are angry that other folks don't wanna work with the cops.
@tacomagirl Actually, anybody who knows a bit about John Lennon would remember that he first sang that song as "don't you know that you can count me out?", which he later claimed in an interview was because he wasn't sure what his stance would be when the time came to take action.
Hey, you've got Matt Luby! You're bound to win now!
Um, maybe if the cops stopped shooting people of color and treating democratic protest as a crime this wouldn't be an issue.

The Democrats run the city, state and federal government. And they are no better than the Republicans. Stop trying to dictate what other people can say. So what if "five people" complained to the Stranger that they lost votes. Tough cookie.

This is a participatory democratic movement, not a Democratic Party bait-and-switch electoral campaign. If you don't like it, go ask Obama to stop sending Predator drones over half the earth and to stop deporting Mexicans by the million.

Seriously. Liberal BS is tiresome. The cops should go away. Their services are not required and they've abused people non-stop since the occupation began. Over a thousand arrests in NYC alone. Check out Boston, and we all know about their behavior in Chicago.

This whole article is BS.
I like how Fnarf is all happy that the protest movement is dying. He thinks he's a winner because he hasn't yet realized that his interests aren't actually being protected by establishment liberals. He still operates with the delusion that everything is going to work out in the end as long as he votes and holds whatever values he holds, while the country continues its rightward slide and unfettered capitalism kills every public institution. The Fnarfs of the world are absolutely indispensable to the right. He can laugh at the losers from the sidelines while everything he supposedly believes in is slowly dismantled. The best part is he gets to feel like he's a winner and believe he's smarter than everyone else. It must be nice having such a big ego.
89: Fnarf likes his lifestyle and isn't really willing to fight for anything. He's pretty much everything wrong with this country. All complaints, no willingness to do anything.
@Ken Mehlman: You're implying that solidifying public sympathy isn't an intentional tactic of the Occupy movement. And besides, if the cops ever think that they can go against public opinion and start clubbing some heads, there's always those dastardly anarchists to fight 'em off.
Here's the problem, anarchists: 79% of Americans agree with the statement “The big banks got bailed but the middle class got left behind."

You'd be lucky if you got 20% support for setting up no police zones. That's before the roughly five billion blindingly obvious problems with this idea in practice reared their head. The renaming OS thing was the icing on a week of GA-idiocy cake that had nothing to do with the core issues resonating with the American public.

Get your heads on straight, and focus on what we can agree on.

Here's the problem, anarchists: 79% of Americans agree with the statement “The big banks got bailed but the middle class got left behind."

You'd be lucky if you got 20% support for setting up no police zones. That's before the roughly five billion blindingly obvious problems with this idea in practice reared their head. The renaming OS thing was the icing on a week of GA-idiocy cake that had nothing to do with the core issues resonating with the American public.

Get your heads on straight, and focus on what we can agree on.

Yesterday was the 16th Annual October 22nd National Day of Protest Against Police Brutality, Repression & The Criminalization of a Generation. This is a broad coalition of people with many different political perspectives--a day that gives voice to the friends and families of those brutalized or killed by law enforcement. It is MUCH MORE radical (getting at the root of things) than an "anti-cop" rally (which Dominic Holden knows because he actually worked with the October 22nd Coalition before he became one of the reasons Abbie Hoffman said to never trust anyone over 30) People should read this call to understand why this coalition exists and how pervasive this epidemic goes . It's good that that flyer didn't get made, because the leaders of "Puget Sound Anarchists" had no right to set the agenda for an event they had no part in organizing. It was just a few people's attempt to different tactics and politics on this protest rather than call their own. It's too bad if confusion kept some people away from Saturday's protest. EVERYONE who is opposed to police brutality, repression and the criminalization of the youth was welcome and should have been there. It was a great day for the people.
I I don't know if this is the same thing that happened in Toronto at the G20, but the radicals that infiltrated the protests were undercover police, their mission was to discredit the movement and justify arrests, so keep that in mind, they may not be quelled. That being said, protests should ALWAYS be peaceful.
@humanbeing Yeah, protests should always be peaceful, but sometimes these assholes with clubs and guns and shiny badges show up and ruin everything.
It's one big ol' circle jerk down at Westlake now. 100 people at a GA, barely a dozen camping out in a region with 3 million people. You're a fart in a hurricane featuring the usual anger management suspects running the show. Expect it to be over by Thanksgiving. Capitalism will survive. Obama will hopefully win in '12.

The crayon chewing retards at Westlake barely represent 1% of the population with such extreme, radical views.
There are legitimate forms of nonviolent protest based on fundamentally nonviolent factors which are the only measures I think a majority of us, particularly on this forum, think are longlastingly effective – not to produce anarchy but to restore the balance of power in government, with the ordinary people having a democratic voice in that, without undue influence by the wealthy.

Otherwise, sorry, you are not speaking for 99% of us.

Why are people comparing OWS and WTO? They have almost nothing in common. People keep holding up models of past protests that are dissimilar to OWS as reasons why OWS will fail. They are unable to understand that OWS has already succeeded in fundamental ways. In the reality that exists outside of the bubbles you live in, shutting down Occupy Seattle does not and never will mean that the whole movement has failed. You do read the papers, right? You know this is happening in over 150 American cities and over 1000 worldwide? I realize you hate-junkies need to get your fix, but your glaring ignorance makes you sound like nothing more than trolls. You are not the beacons of wisdom you think you are. If SPD shuts down OWS, it's par for the course because SPD have no respect for the people or the law. It's not just the opinion of a few crazies; they are being investigated by the Justice department for "systemic violations of the Constitution or federal law".… People know not to trust them. Maybe not the windbags here on SLOG, but rational people and those with some life experience, and now some of the occupiers. I'm inclined to trust those experiencing this movement firsthand more than the assessments of self-aggrandizing egomaniacs like Fnarf and others in this thread who have contempt for people who demand their rights be respected. I can't stand fuckers who froth at the mouth at the thought of people legally expressing a perfectly reasonable message being abused by authorities.

" I can't stand fuckers who froth at the mouth at the thought of people legally expressing a perfectly reasonable message being abused by authorities. " In the comments I am about to make, I want to emphasize I have not been given authority to speak on behalf of Occupy Wall Street . To my understanding,NO one has authority unless granted by the General Assembly to speak on behalf of the movement. I speak for myself.

I am a teacher, so I march in OWS,and I WATCH many other marches across this country, and in fact the globe.I take note when there is police brutality.I write letters, send links, with pictures of police brutality, to mayors, to governors, and I will continue to do so. Since the beginning of this OWS movement, Anarchists have been welcome as a group with a legitimate reason to be considered one with the 99%, some taking the brunt of pepper spray, rubber bullets, tazers, and even worse kinds of police brutality.We are working class brothers and sisters fighting the for the same goal. I don’t know how this goal will be accomplished without the prerequisite of unity. The tribes must come together to topple the authoritarian corporate power structure. Otherwise the Oligarchs will arm one side against the other and we will have civil war when we should be having a revolution.


So when you have a serial pedophile and a man with a rifle and ammo arrested at Westlake, there is no need for cops right?

Cops are expressions of the law. If the law was in the favor of the People, instead of the corporations, then you would have cops that are in your camp.

It's not the cops that are the issue, it's the law. Cops are merely a tool, (insert joke that cops are tools), change what the tool is calibrated for, and you change the effect.

They're part of the people, but are brainwashed into believing that we aren't the fulfillment of democracy.
"Anarchists have been welcome as a group with a legitimate reason to be considered one with the 99%, some taking the brunt of pepper spray, rubber bullets, tazers, and even worse kinds of police brutality"

None of that has happened in Seattle, but your 'oppression' is 99% fantasy. But of course, you probably think private property should be illegal. Want a poll of how many people in Seattle agree with that?

"The tribes must come together to topple the authoritarian corporate power structure. Otherwise the Oligarchs will arm one side against the other and we will have civil war when we should be having a revolution."

What are you folks smoking down there? Seriously, you're fucking delusional.

But carry on. It's the most amusing circle jerk I've seen in a while.

Bloody peasants….

Help help, I'm being oppressed!
I am NOT a radical. I am WHITE and I benefit from the system as it is, despite being unemployed and financially hurting. That means that if I have a true and sincere desire to change the economy in ways that better safeguard the future of our country, I need to listen to and honor the real lived experiences of People of Color because they have suffered the most in this recession. Ignoring their experiences is violent, disregards human suffering, and maintains systems of white supremacy that got us in this mess in the first place!! WAKE UP WHITE "movement-leaders" and show some humility. Last night's first proposal at GA was a disgusting attack against the POC caucus and a complete waste of the People's time.
@103. so you're gonna get the people of America behind your movement by lecturing them on white privilege (ie. the ability to pita condom on)?

Enjoy occupying Westlake because taking over hobo's turf is as far as you'll get.
White privilege? So the 1% is now 70% of America?

This is getting so confusing.
"I am NOT a radical. I am WHITE and I benefit from the system as it is"

So that's what OWS is about? Fighting white privilege? What about Asians, who have higher household incomes than whites, do they have to bend over and give to the black and brown man? And how does that fit into the 99% narrative if 70% of Americans are white an nearly 90% of Occupy Seattle is white? Are u going to decolonize your iPhone and give it to the first, or tenth, drunk Indian you see at Westlake?

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