@31, 32, 33: I'm not going to argue with you about this.
@16, and @17
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That footage is terrible. It's impossible to tell who or what hit him.
I suspect the same thing will happen in Seattle and all the anarchist have to do is provoke the cops while hiding behind the peaceful protesters, just like they did for WTO.
When I heard "police shot a flash grenade into a group of people trying to help the wounded marine", my first inclination was to think that things were chaotic and it wouldn't have been apparent that he was wounded, but that wasn't the case at all.
Makes you proud to be an American!!
Today, there are occupations similar to the Occupy Wall Street existing at 2300 cities and locations around the planet.
This is what a pissed-off population looks like!
And massive amounts of data, both economic and geophysical, indicate 2012 to be the year of catastrophic convergence: predatory and fraudulent economic activities, together with a dissipating earth magnetosphere and predicted increase in solar flare and solar wind events, suggests a really nasty environment.
And all the sports-viewing, political-spewing bullcrap won't help the masses!
They have been attempting to restart that classic 7-year ultra-leveraged run, beginning again in 2009, but they can't manage two back-to-back ultra-leveraged runs to transfer the last of any wealth to themselves.
The fewmets have hit the fan, finally, and only the most ignorant and stupid remain unaware.
And the Marine creed states that the way to meet force is with overwhelming force:
That still doesn't mean he would have given a shit, though.
They dont, but many normal folks went to the Tax Day protest in Westlake last year, just to mock them. I took part in this and dressed up as the "Get a brain morons" guy.
Except I wore a grey Seahawks shirt and a red bandana actually used Photoshop to print out the actual sign he held up. Had alot of anti-tea party folks get the joke. I would mingle through the crowd and rant off about everything and nothing.
I feel terrible for this young man's condition and wish him a quick recovery. That said, the "Conclusions" slide at the end of this video states that "No bottles or rocks were thrown" at the police and that "the police shooting was unprovoked" -- is some of the most strained and elliptical reportage.
Look at :49 of the video, right-before Scott Olsen is identified, and notice the incendiary device (tear gas? flash bang?) sailing directly over Scott's head, from the protesters -- and directly at the police.
Let's be honest people.
WTF? Orders from the mayor? That the "free speech area" was closed after 10 pm? Have you read the first amendment?
I don't want such people "on my side", and I don't think many worldwide Occupiers do, either.
- People were standing around calmly.
- Tear gas was fired
- A guy was on the ground bleeding
- People ran up to help him
- Tear gas was very clearly fired directly at the people helping him.
I understand that a shitty cell phone video can miss a lot of in-betweens, but how could anyone watch that video and conclude that the protesters were the problem here? Are you just that fucking desperate to suck up to authority at all costs? Watch it again. The guy (and the other veteran) were both making a point of standing stoically and calmly. There is no reason to crack him in the head with ANYTHING. And as someone else pointed out, there weren't many other things flying through the air with enough force to crack a skull.
There's obviously not enough evidence to convict any individual cops. But there's more than enough evidence to show that cops, especially at these protests, are abusing their power. Which means that it's downright idiotic to make the knee-jerk assumption that the cops ONLY harm people when they have good reason to.
Remember: tear gas isn't a punishment for people being disobedient or disrespectful (ie, failing to be the spineless, masochistic little pussies that call themselves "conservatives" nowadays). It's only to be used to stop actual violent behavior. And even when its use is justified, there is still no reason to fire it at people's bodies. Then it's not tear gas, it's a sledge hammer, and a cop needs to have some DAMN good justification to use it.
Darwin never blinks.....
As for those of you saying they broke the law... WHAT LAW? There do seem to be a bunch of unconstitutional laws rushed thru but I've got one for you:
And in case you've forgotten: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I hear the Marines are kinda upset and planning to show up in Oakland in support of their brother. http://occupymarines.org/
First amendment rights dont always trump local laws.
Example being, you have the right to free speech in front of my house, but that right doesnt allow you to setup tents in my lawn or my neighbors lawn. The mayor was on their side, trying to balance their rights, with local laws, but eventually had to clear out the plaza due to radical elements who refused to respond reasonable requests made by the police/mayor. They were looking for a confrontation, they got it and many people were injured in the process. The entire incident could have easily been avoided.
Now, what are the implication of standing in between people throwing incendiaries at each other? Injury? Death? Jesus, ya think?
Quite unfortunately, but not entirely surprisingly, this guy found-out.
Whether his rights to free speech and peaceful assembly are justifiably expressed -- at that very moment -- is not the issue: It's not smart to a) ignore police orders, 2) throw tear gas back at them, or affiliate with those who would 3) Stand there and get hit, and 4) Act like this is all somehow surprising.
We have layers of courts and free media to adjudicate the rights to protest. Use them. If you wanna' get all anarchist and trash the system, then please don't be surprised if the world gets a little more Darwinian, and the dumb ones take it on the noggin' a little more often.
For fuck sake. It's not helping the cause any when you post any random fucking thing that comes along and then ham-handedly attempt to retro-fit your narrative into it.
This footage is conclusive of nothing.
Do yourself a huge favor and read this, from the a moderate, law-abiding, faith-in-the-system perspective. I found it helpful.
While I have no problem the cops set up to have a tear gas fueled beat down. They'll do that. And I'm sad for Scott Olsen. Truly sad.
But this footage is no smoking gun for anything.
Good. I don't want argue about something where no argument exists.
Facts are facts.
And spin is not an argument. It's no better when you do it or Faux News.
Like I said I have no problem believing that is highly probable the cops started some shit in Oakland. However: Belief does not constitute fact. Belief does not constitute proof. This footage is not proof.
Corporate execs love to see the middle class fighting against the middle class.
Yes, I think it's terrible some cop or cops hit Scott in the head with a projectile - whether it was a member of OPD or sheriff's dept or one of the other hodgepodge of cops they had to call in to try to keep the protestors from re-camping in that plaza, it's not right to hit people in the head.
But the crowd was, by their moving en masse toward the area they'd been evicted from earlier that day by the cops, trying to get a reaction. It's understandable that in Oakland they'd be thinking, these cops tend to fuck people up, we're in danger.
But they put themselves in danger late at night by moving to reoccupy that public area they'd been forbidden from. I understand they have a mix of ideals and goals and stuff, but if you don't want to get hurt by cops don't deliberately disobey a huge group of them at the end of a long day's protesting.
Again, I'm not down with cops hurting that nice ex-soldier, but I'm also not down with ignoring the terrible injury he suffered came from his deliberate bid for flag-wrapped martyrdom, in an effort not to reform Wall Street but to insist on the crowd's right to camp at the plaza the cops threw them out of. To some that may be the same cause but I don't see it.
@16, ryanayr,: great comments, good citizen! In fact, I recall when those southern storm troopers in Alabama and Georgia turned high-pressure fire hoses on the civil rights protesters, some of the parents of the scumbags commenting here today called them freeloaders and said they should be at work instead.
The worms always spawn true.
#17, lanced boil: ".. keep a grip on it and you'll help your side more." Sir lowbrow, I'm not on any "side" simply attempting to convey reality to your feeble itty bitty leetle brainy, sonny.
Instead of commenting among the adults, go in a dark room with a flashlight and mirror and try, oh so try, to locate your vagina. (By do it with adult supervision this time.)
No, the video did not show him being hit by a tear gas canister being fired from the police.
Yes, moments before hand there was a tear gas canister being hurled back at the police.
What the video did show was worse. It showed the police throwing a flash-grenade in the midst of a group of people coming to the aid of a gravely injured man who had done nothing but stand peacefully. That action is so malicious and despicable it blows my mind.
So those of you who have never cared about something so dearly, and felt so frustrated and disillusioned with you lack of ability to change or influence it, that you feel your only option is to take to the streets... Well you can sit in your living rooms, tell jokes or critique what others are doing. But for those of us who have no other options, this is a sad, sad event. He was one of us and he did nothing wrong.
There was some good folks caught up in a bad situation the last few nights in Oakland, on both sides*. I know people that went to this, and I also know what some of them are capable of and how they are likely to behave.
*Having to describe police and protesters as being on different sides probably being the crux of the obfuscation of the original message.
Except having the government paying off your student loans or give u free weed or protect tent rights or letting u shit in a bucket or whatever this is about, doesn't exactly have the same moral urgency.
The bottom line is that the right is running this country into the ground, and to date, none of the traditional mechanisms of political leverage - the press, elections, lobbying, leadership, etc. - seem to be able to stop them. OWS has the potential to tip the balance by reclaiming the terms of political discourse from the right and demonstrating that there are lots of people who are sick of the bullshit and who won't be ignored.
I don't know if it will succeed, but you're fucking right I'm going to support their effort. So should you.
Of course, the vast difference being that Egyptians didn't have their basic human rights being assured by representative, democratically-elected government -- or with an effective judicial system to assure the protection of their people from government, under laws.
Our system operates imperfectly at times. And so we learn from and seek to improve it. The Egyptians had no system, and therefore, sought justice.
Whether anyone thinks this current government is representative of their personal interests - at this very moment -- is not the case. We are a nation of laws, and let's not feign surprise kids! - they are gonna' be enforced.
And it doesn't matter if your own personal description of free speech doesn't sit squarely with OPD's. Not smart to make that point by lobbing tear-gas back from the patch of turf you've declared for your speech. That's what courts are for.
The police have a militarized mindset. Fine. Militarized means organized for conflict. Should they have dressed-up for a square-dance?
I'm sure there are some Egyptian youth lining-up in support, just as soon as there are millions upon millions of Americans who, while completely supportive of Occupier's Constitutional rights to peaceably assemble, speak and redress grievances -- simultaneously recognize the self-aggrandizing, message-diluted, cop-baiting, strategy-free, blame-others naivete of The Unmovement.
And besides, the Egyptian think you're all a bunch of pussies who think Twitter-ing to each other is gonna' do dick.
Revolutions happen when people don't mind gettin' bloody. And Occupy doesn't wanna' answer that bell.
This is not that, and I'm getting a little heartsick by how many people are jumping on the idea that the end justifies the means, and that criticism of anybody claiming the Occupy mantle is a sign of disloyalty.
The ghosts of Martin Luther King and Gandhi are too polite to say it, but fuck yourself.
I am questioning your assessment of the value and significance of OWS, however. You and many other thoughtful liberals (I've had this same conversation with several close friends already) are missing the forest for the trees. OWS doesn't have a single demand, nor should they - there are scores of problems that need to addressed, and not everyone agrees on the fixes. If there's an overriding message to OWS, it's simply to stop the dramatic rightward slide of this country.
And clashes with the police come with the territory when you are protesting - that's always been true - but that doesn't make them any less effective. If anything, the heavy-handed police response to occupy Oakland has given the movement legs.
Finally, Scott Olsen wasn't injured for nothing - he is proof that the movement isn't just a bunch of anarchist and hippies in "drum circles". It's also decorated war veterans with good jobs. It really should be you and I as well.
Don't pretend apathy is some sort of superior reaction.
If someone takes a tear gas canister to the head to advance a cause that I believe in and that I benefit from, they can whine all they want as far as I'm concerned.
With that recognition should come emphasis that Occupy isn't JUST a bunch a of anarchist and hippies in "drum circles."
the police are not there for a 'fair fight'.
there are there representing Real America enforcing the law.
throw one water bottle and expect an ass beatdown.
Nowdays, when almost everyone thinks of Martin Luther King as having been on the right side, we tend to forget how much mainstream opposition to him there was. For example Life magazine described one of his speeches as "a script for Radio Hanoi," and Ronald Reagan described him as "near" to being a Communist.
'Letter From Birmingham Jail' is written to rebut this kind of mainstream criticism (it was specifically directed against a statement by eight clergymen). It's noteable how relevant it is to a lot of the statements made here.
(it's at http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/do… among other places).