There have been plenty of opportunities to establish a Palestinian state for several decades. I don’t think Arafat ever really wanted one. A fluid situation and the unrest it brings is preferable to Arab leaders.

Poor, poor Benjamin Nuttin-Honey, @4. He's tried so hard.

Yeah, Mudede, if Israel became a democracy it would certainly become extinct: Wiped-out from within by the heathen throngs. Just like South Africa when the whites ceded power to the popular vote, which resulted in the destruction of South Af...

... oh wait... no, that didn't happen.

They're a fine, stable and prosperous nation.

While I acknowledge the horrific persecution of Jews during WWll, the state of Israel has always tried to mint a special currency in paranoia around self-defense.

Over time, Israels prescription for itself is going to kill the patient. Better to address it now by acknowledging the legitimacy and human rights of non-Jews within Israel, and the rights of Palestinians in other territories to be representatively self-governed.

Promised land? Fucking headache!

http://www.imemc.org/

I found this site to be decent about Palestinian injustice, most sites are filled with angry comments, to anti-semetic stuff. But reading these reports of settler violence, just confirms just how cruel religious zealots can be.

Even if Israel decides to stop being a "Democracy", the USA will still consider it a strong ally, because we must be getting some juicy intel from them (involving other Arab states).

Becoming truly democratic will not mean extinction. Just because Israel Jews will be outnumbered by Palestinian Arabs does not mean they will become extinct, unless you believe that having a larger population is the only thing keeping others from killing them off entirely, in which case you're not familiar with the force disparity between the IDF and really every one else in the region. If I were you I'd be embarrassed to have written this. I understand the stylistic impulse toward snark on this site but C'MON, Charles, you're better than that.

@7

South Africa didnt implode because it wasnt a sanctuary for White People. There was no aryan holocaust that pushed the idea of a country just for them. There was no fear of "OMG THE WHITE RACE MIGHT GO EXTINCT!!". With Israel, there is this constant fear that they might not exist as a race/religion.

And because Israel insists on being a Jewish state, when the arab minority, becomes the majority, then it no longer becomes a Jewish state. All the ultra orthadox Jews will not tolerate that, laws will be changed that revoke the right to vote, so that the minority is allowed to govern the majority.

@Sargon- Israel today is nothing like Nazi Germany. First of all, the Israeli government (Israel - Knesset) is made up of Jews, Arabs, and others. That alone should make you re-examine your statement.
@Zok and Auqurgirl- Please tell the unicorns, wizards, and fairies hello for me the next time you visit fantasy land. The Palestinian leadership has already stated that there will be "NO" Jews allowed to live within its borders should it become a State. Iran has state on a number of occasions that Israel should be wiped from the map. Arab States for the past 50 years have said they would drive Israel into the sea. If Arabs where to become the majority in Israel, and in their government, then it is not a far reach to see new laws enacted that would persecute and oppress the Jews still living there.

@12, the problem is the inherently bigoted nature of wanting a "Jewish" state. In this, you just pick your poison of bigotry. If you insist that all citizens be followers of religious Judaism, then you are a religious state and hence enforce religious bigotry. This would also cause a nice chunk of Israelis, especially amongst the intellectual class, to lose citizenship. A form of this policy has caused a massive influx of black Ethiopian Jews, something opposed by many Orthodox, because they are "obviously" not "real" Jews.

If you define being Jewish as a racial matter, you become an officially racist state. You also are idiotic, since the limits of ethnicity between Jews and other Europeans are fuzzy, to say the least. You end up with an unhealthy interest in people's last names and ancestry.

They're between a rock and a hard place. If they continue to define themselves as a Jewish state, they are undemocratic and should be treated as such by actual civilized nations. If they dispense with the imposition of a vague religious and ethnic identity, they will be democratically dominated by a group of people who, with some justification, don't like them very much. I've long since decided that until both sides start fucking each other and making palesijewish babies, their's little hope for the region.

Damn my slow "previous" button! There's, not "their's", for fucks sake.

If it's a matter of percentage points, one might point out that the Jews in the West (US) are doing quite well guarding their interests at less than 2% of the population

@12 You show a blazing ignorance of history in South Africa, with the respective efforts to tribes to wipe-out the Afrikaners (Boers, mostly), and the efforts the same Dutch Boers to establish independent, racially pure states -- extinguishing Zulus and Xhosa along the way.

@13 And thank you for making my own point about the feeling that Jews feel exceptional in their historical persecution, inviting them to set-aside basic human rights of others.

Zulus didn't push the whites into the sea in South Africa, and Palestinians have more to lose without the Jewish people than with them. (Unless you believe that Arab Muslims are genetically predisposed to hatred, and incapable of cause/effect reason -- which is another matter.)